Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Marvin]

I'm sure there are any number of online distractions for Chris that don't involve him performing for our amusement, though.

Oh, sure, and there are IRL distractions for Chris that don't involve him getting arrested.

 

[GS 281]

Don't you think he would be less likely to become unhinged at random people if he didn't see random pictures of himself popping up online? He sees recordings of himself when he didn't know he was being recorded, he sees pictures he didn't know were being taken, most significant events in his life have been documented by people, there is a value in a community to become his insincere love interest or friend, and lord knows how many times a week he has people calling him up screaming JULLAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Add to that he is already Autistic, has other mental problems, was subjected to poor upbringing, was marginally socialized by his parents, was indoctrinated to believe people will actively conspire against you for no reason and has never had a real honest friend or companion who did not in some way ridicule him or think that they are better than him.

You read the chats that the more "helpful" or "benign" trolls have shared, and all it is from their side is condescending attitudes, frustration when Chris doesn't assume the role of a child and do what they say or respond to their overstepping of boundaries or the dangling of blurry relationships in front of him. They ask a lot from him, but if Chris was to say "hmmm, ya-you know, you sh-you should go to a co-you should go to a comic con sometime. I think you would really like it". Would they respond? No, they would laugh at him suggesting something not of their interest. If he pursued that, then he would be creepy. Well, the point is, in a way, the "helpful" or "benign" troll is being creepy in that they are overstepping his bounds, and when reflecting on this, instead of saying "yeah I went too far; that's not normal behavior", they say "Chris is horrible and stubborn, he won't respond when I ask him things!" In seeking to look down on the near-middle-aged autistic dull-normal, hardly socialized man, the person who was born with normal capabilities and raised with a reasonably good upbringing doesn't do anything any better than Chris.

It isn't that it is unethical or immoral to troll Chris, its just cringe-y because it shows that the best you can do with your abilities is be no better than Chris when you communicate with him.

 

[Marvin]

Don't you think he would be less likely to become unhinged at random people if he didn't see random pictures of himself popping up online?

Not really, no.

Assuming you're talking about his recent blue arms shit, Chris has a history of flipping out in public and he's not shy about accusing people of being trolls. He doesn't think these people are trolls.

 

[Thetan]

Oh, sure, and there are IRL distractions for Chris that don't involve him getting arrested.

There are a number of social opportunities in the Charlottesville area that would be ideal for Chris (assuming that he can behave himself). I suggested a couple of venues that were local, inexpensive, and would give him the opportunity to socialize in a less judgmental / more accepting atmosphere.

The main issue Chris brought up is Barb. Barb likes to have him at her beck and call and Chris seems to think that she won't let him off his leash long enough to go out and do something he might actually enjoy. He only spent a couple of hours at the Pride Picnic and I think the only reason he was able to go to the LGBT movie night was that it was just under two hours. Chris spent a little more time at the Impulse Halloween Party (about 3 hours) but he was checking in with Barb on a regular basis and had a curfew. (I'll see if I can find the relevant text messages.)

Given Chris's recent behavior, I wouldn't suggest any sort of social activity at this time. He's too unstable and you never know just what might set him off.

 

[qld]

My take on it: Don't. Just don't.

Pointing and laughing is what these forums are for. Point and laugh all you like. If he wants to come in here and stir the pot, that's fine and he'll get the double-pronged dicking he asks for, but left to his own devices his own spontaneous cow lolling is sufficient and more extreme than anything any of us can come up with or provoke. It's funnier that way. No external pot-stirring is needed, wanted, nor (although it is a blurry line) allowed. Thumping your duck on the table doesn't prove anything to me about how witty you are, and after all I'm the one you want to impress.

Absolutely. I'm not interested in someone "creating the news" and then coming on here to report it. A journalist shouldn't interfere with the subject, but only report their findings. I'm not impressed with the taint piercing either as an excuse for meddling, he would've figured it out or else wound up in the hospital. So be it, if we're here to watch a nature show, we don't want the cameraman saving the baby elephant from drowning or chasing the lions from the buffalo calf.

Chris publicly admitted the events captured on the video in a public Facebook post. This really isn't a "benefit of the doubt" type situation.

He can do what he did in the GameStop, and he can (stupidly) discuss it on Facebook. That doesn't mean our sharp-as-a-tack legal system is going to wind up with private video and Facebook screenshots to use in the trial. But because it's Chris, someone has likely made sure the prosecutor has been receiving the info.

The benefit of the doubt any other person would've had is that they're not subject to being filmed by random strangers, but Chris does not escape that scrutiny. And he doesn't deserve it because he's a "celebrity," he has none of the benefits that come with celebrity status and mainstream news does not report on him. Apparently the local paper doesn't even acknowledge his shenanigans to the extent they would if he were even a local celebrity. Even if he was formerly a celebrity, he's more like a former child star that no longer acts and lives a life out of the public eye. This one just has thousands of "fans" that won't let him live it. And if he made stupid decisions when he was younger, he deserves the right to move away from those actions and recede from public view. To continue to interfere and affect him is to say he deserves punishment that the legal system is failing to handout.

 

[Ravenor]

I've always been of the opinion that there were certain situations where trolling was actually beneficial to Chris. For example, when Chris was waging war on Clyde and Alec, it kept him sufficiently distracted that it kept him from getting into actual trouble (vandalizing private property, for example). I'm not suggesting that this legitimizes trolling: what I'm saying is that maybe trolling is the lesser of the two evils, at least in certain situations.

I'd much rather see Chris make videos ranting about Sanic and his [literally too autistic to type blue arms]. This would benefit the community by giving us something to amuse ourselves with and benefit Chris by providing him with a more benign outlet for his rage and frustration.

I am with you on this, Some trolling has taken it to far but of late it has well give him some kind of outlet and social contact. I mean there is always going to be "The Guy that takes it too far" but there always is in any given situation trolling or not an sadly there is are always going to be A-Log's an Ween's who will seek Chris out an try an hurt him or get him to do something anti-social.

Your kind of "Trolling" if it can really be called that, was helpful to Chris it made him go outside got him to try new things an you at least tried to help nudge him in the right direction just because you where not 100% successful in the eyes of some does not mean you did the right thing in trying to nudge him. What limits any help any one will offer to Chris is the Drag factor of his Ego;

Picture Chris as this Huge Autistic Super Tanker with a drunk Captain an your a guy in a little Canoe trying to do the job of a bunch of tug boats that are completely absent, it's a fast tide and your really struggling but your at least trying, your never going to succeed in docking that Tanker but your at least trying to help.

You got him out the house a few times to be social, something he never does without goading and you gave him human contact and when he was doing something medically dangerous with the gooch piercing that's more than the white knights or his own mother did. He is by most measures beyond help now but I like to think you delayed the inevitable, It was only a matter of time before he did something stupid and reckless that landed him in more trouble with the law. Any actions he does after you broke contact are not related to you or caused by you, he had landed himself in the hot water because he has never an will never learn.

What he really need's is a ego reduction, a outlet of some kind (Verbal or Artistic), and a steady hand in his life to stop him from doing stupid shit, all are lacking without Troll's at the helm he had a Drunken Captain (Autism / Mental health issues), a First Officer having a sulk (Barb) and the rest of the crew jumped ship in the last port (White Knights).

 

[Le Bateleur]

The sad reality is that anywhere Chris goes, he's going to attract unwanted attention. People are either going to laugh at him or call him out on his BS (or both). He's made trouble in the various online gaming communities without any prompting from trolls.

At this point, anything is a better outlet for him than his little vigilante kick.

I agree his current course is undesirable. I also agree that his antisocial behaviour will have consequences wherever he goes.

It just doesn't follow to me that battling imaginary foes is a preferable alternative. I wouldn't say that anything is better - some alternatives are equally bad or worse.

 

[Marvin]

I'm not impressed with the taint piercing either as an excuse for meddling, he would've figured it out or else wound up in the hospital.

Oh no, I'm very, very confident Chris would have died from the taint piercing had he not taken it out. I don't believe he would've taken it out on his own in time either. Chris would've died if it wasn't for troll intervention.

Not that this is a justification for anything, of course. Just saying, let's not joke around: Chris would've died.

 

[Thetan]

The benefit of the doubt any other person would've had is that they're not subject to being filmed by random strangers, but Chris does not escape that scrutiny. And he doesn't deserve it because he's a "celebrity," he has none of the benefits that come with celebrity status and mainstream news does not report on him. Apparently the local paper doesn't even acknowledge his shenanigans to the extent they would if he were even a local celebrity. Even if he was formerly a celebrity, he's more like a former child star that no longer acts and lives a life out of the public eye. This one just has thousands of "fans" that won't let him live it. And if he made stupid decisions when he was younger, he deserves the right to move away from those actions and recede from public view. To continue to interfere and affect him is to say he deserves punishment that the legal system is failing to handout.

Actually, I have to politely disagree. This is the information age where a lot of people have a smart phone with a fairly decent camera / video recorder. There have been more than a few stories where some random passer-by happened to film a crime in progress. This isn't unusual.

Chris, due to his Internet infamy is likely to attract more attention, but he's not the first (or only) person ever to be filmed in the commission of a crime.

 

[qld]

There are a number of social opportunities in the Charlottesville area that would be ideal for Chris (assuming that he can behave himself). I suggested a couple of venues that were local, inexpensive, and would give him the opportunity to socialize in a less judgmental / more accepting atmosphere.

The main issue Chris brought up is Barb. Barb likes to have him at her beck and call and Chris seems to think that she won't let him off his leash long enough to go out and do something he might actually enjoy. He only spent a couple of hours at the Pride Picnic and I think the only reason he was able to go to the LGBT movie night was that it was just under two hours. Chris spent a little more time at the Impulse Halloween Party (about 3 hours) but he was checking in with Barb on a regular basis and had a curfew. (I'll see if I can find the relevant text messages.)

Given Chris's recent behavior, I wouldn't suggest any sort of social activity at this time. He's too unstable and you never know just what might set him off.

I'm not necessarily picking your actions apart here, but for example-- One could argue that sending him off to picnics and a group movie showing led to a sensory overload or levels of stress that culminated in something far more serious. Not saying that it did, but when you stick your hand in his life, there might very well be a trail someone could paint from your interference to later, negative events.

Actually, I have to politely disagree. This is the information age where a lot of people have a smart phone with a fairly decent camera / video recorder. There have been more than a few stories where some random passer-by happened to film a crime in progress. This isn't unusual.

Chris, due to his Internet infamy is likely to attract more attention, but he's not the first (or only) person ever to be filmed in the commission of a crime.

Oh yes, very true. But what I said about this incident before was that when that person started filming, it appeared the disturbance was over and the offender was leaving. Nothing more to be expected. But because the cameraman recognized Chris, they knew there would be a market for footage of him, even if merely strolling down the street (like a still of him at the Target checkout). Had it been some other guy, they probably wouldn't have recorded him. And the prosecutor would've had to rely upon store cameras possibly lacking audio. Chris, because he's Chris, doesn't get to take those chances.

 

[Thetan]

I agree his current course is undesirable. I also agree that his antisocial behaviour will have consequences wherever he goes.

It just doesn't follow to me that battling imaginary foes is a preferable alternative. I wouldn't say that anything is better - some alternatives are equally bad or worse.

This is strictly my opinion, which is of course subject to error....

When I look at the "Classic Chris" videos he seems more energized when he's engaged in his noble battle against Clyde and the evil troll hoard. Classic Chris is a man on a mission: he almost seems happy in those old videos.

I agree, this isn't an ideal situation since, ultimately, it's feeding into Chris's delusion and paranoia, but it's a ***safer*** alternative to Chris pepper spraying random people that make him feel threatened or frightened.

Harry Partridge once suggested that Chris do a YouTube channel where he reviewed various video games. This [in my opinion] would be ideal. Chris could prattle on happily about something he loves, and he'd be providing entertainment at the same time. (He could even make a modest amount of money if he monetized his YouTube channel.)

Yes, people would still laugh at Chris because Chris is [unintentionally] funny. The difference in the aforementioned situation is that Chris would be in charge of the content. He would be saying and doing the things he wanted to without being goaded by trolls.

Oh no, I'm very, very confident Chris would have died from the taint piercing had he not taken it out. I don't believe he would've taken it out on his own in time either. Chris would've died if it wasn't for troll intervention.

Not that this is a justification for anything, of course. Just saying, let's not joke around: Chris would've died.

He not only wasn't going to take it out, he was PROUD of the damn thing. He thought the infected edges of the piercing looked like labia.

 

[Le Bateleur]

I'm not necessarily picking your actions apart here, but for example-- One could argue that sending him off to picnics and a group movie showing led to a sensory overload or levels of stress that culminated in something far more serious. Not saying that it did, but when you stick your hand in his life, there might very well be a trail someone could paint from your interference to later, negative events.

This is the crux of what I've been trying to get at for the last month.

My threshold for when someone should interfere in a stranger's life is very high, and part of it involves accepting that their intervention will have consequences and these may be negative.

 

[GS 281]

This is strictly my opinion, which is of course subject to error....

When I look at the "Classic Chris" videos he seems more energized when he's engaged in his noble battle against Clyde and the evil troll hoard. Classic Chris is a man on a mission: he almost seems happy in those old videos.

I agree, this isn't an ideal situation since, ultimately, it's feeding into Chris's delusion and paranoia, but it's a ***safer*** alternative to Chris pepper spraying random people that make him feel threatened or frightened.

So rather than investing in mental health intervention for the mentally ill, we need to have the go on line and get trolled and harassed by groups of people pretending to be bully Guidos and fake heart-sweets? Brilliant.

 

[Lurker]

So rather than investing in mental health intervention for the mentally ill, we need to have the go on line and get trolled and harassed by groups of people pretending to be bully Guidos and fake heart-sweets? Brilliant.

No one can force Chris to go to a psychologist. Thetan is doing the only thing that she can realistically do, in my opinion. Sure, it may be morally questionable to impersonate people that Chris knew in reality, but if Thetan can keep Chris from doing dumb shit like pepper spraying random people, it's certainly better than nothing.

 

[Thetan]

Oh yes, very true. But what I said about this incident before was that when that person started filming, it appeared the disturbance was over and the offender was leaving. Nothing more to be expected. But because the cameraman recognized Chris, they knew there would be a market for footage of him, even if merely strolling down the street (like a still of him at the Target checkout). Had it been some other guy, they probably wouldn't have recorded him. And the prosecutor would've had to rely upon store cameras possibly lacking audio. Chris, because he's Chris, doesn't get to take those chances.

OK, I'll concede that point.

I think the main reason the person filming Chris continued to do so is because Chris is unpredictable: you never know what he's going to do (he was right in this particular circumstance).

While I don't agree with weens sending this footage to the DA or whoever, I think that if somehow this video is admissible as evidence and, by some miracle, Chris ends up getting the help he so obviously needs, then I say it's not entirely a bad thing.

At this point, I seriously believe that Chris is a danger to himself and others around him. The sooner he gets some help, the better.

 

[qld]

This is strictly my opinion, which is of course subject to error....

When I look at the "Classic Chris" videos he seems more energized when he's engaged in his noble battle against Clyde and the evil troll hoard. Classic Chris is a man on a mission: he almost seems happy in those old videos.

I agree, this isn't an ideal situation since, ultimately, it's feeding into Chris's delusion and paranoia, but it's a ***safer*** alternative to Chris pepper spraying random people that make him feel threatened or frightened.

Harry Partridge once suggested that Chris do a YouTube channel where he reviewed various video games. This [in my opinion] would be ideal. Chris could prattle on happily about something he loves, and he'd be providing entertainment at the same time. (He could even make a modest amount of money if he monetized his YouTube channel.)

Yes, people would still laugh at Chris because Chris is [unintentionally] funny. The difference in the aforementioned situation is that Chris would be in charge of the content. He would be saying and doing the things he wanted to without being goaded by trolls.

Yeah, there's all sorts of great things Chris could do to make him feel great and even have money, but it's been accepted for years that Chris is not going to listen, and Chris is not going to do any of those things. He couldn't exist on YouTube before someone else was trolling him or pretending to be a potential sweetheart. Putting him back on YouTube with commenters will most likely serve to open the door for malicious trolls to get into his life. You or anyone else is not going to give Chris a direction and have it lead to his happiness, so why meddle? He's still going to go out in public and have run-ins, even during his halcyon days he had bans, run-ins and the cops called when he went out in public.

This is the crux of what I've been trying to get at for the last month.

My threshold for when someone should interfere in a stranger's life is very high, and part of it involves accepting that their intervention will have consequences and these may be negative.

Well, I don't really care if you interfere in his life, but you should not be misrepresenting yourself to do it. And since I presume most males are out, that means you do not pretend to be a girl online just so you have an audience. And if you can't misrepresent yourself, he's not going to give an audience to very many people coming to him as a result of this notoriety.

 

[GS 281]

No one can force Chris to go to a psychologist. Thetan is doing the only thing that she can realistically do, in my opinion. Sure, it may be morally questionable to impersonate people that Chris knew in reality, but if Thetan can keep Chris from doing dumb shit like pepper spraying random people, it's certainly better than nothing.

Then what you are saying is that if people refuse mental health, then people seeking the opportunity to laugh at a man of diminishing capacity who had little in terms of mental faculties to begin with are doing a good thing by reaching out and manipulating their behavior for their entertainment. I feel you may be on to something. Perhaps the next edition of the American Journal of Psychiatry should have a conceptual piece taking the keynote identifying the benefits of the online troll for those who are of limited abilities and significant psychological issues. There can be a case study on Chris and the contributions that trolls have made to the improvement of his condition.

 

[Poor Choices]

Absolutely. I'm not interested in someone "creating the news" and then coming on here to report it. A journalist shouldn't interfere with the subject, but only report their findings. I'm not impressed with the taint piercing either as an excuse for meddling, he would've figured it out or else wound up in the hospital. So be it, if we're here to watch a nature show, we don't want the cameraman saving the baby elephant from drowning or chasing the lions from the buffalo calf.

But Chris' best moments have always been reactive ones like his first video where he's trying to dispel rumors about him or when he's raging about trolls. Without someone prodding him he wouldn't be compelled to share his thoughts/emotions half the time. Chris is (to dehumanize him a little bit) an interactive medium who can go off and do his own crazy things a lot of the time but also needs some direction if he's to hit maximum hilarity.

 

[Le Bateleur]

No one can force Chris to go to a psychologist. Thetan is doing the only thing that she can realistically do, in my opinion. Sure, it may be morally questionable to impersonate people that Chris knew in reality, but if Thetan can keep Chris from doing dumb shit like pepper spraying random people, it's certainly better than nothing.

Consider the advantage of doing nothing - zero risk of unexpected negative consequences.
How sure are you that you can predict the likelihood and severity of something bad happening as a result of intervening in Chris's life? What are the odds your intervention will succeed?
I personally don't see how any online follower of Chris's can be sure enough that intervening in Chris's life is worth the risk.

 

[Thetan]

So rather than investing in mental health intervention for the mentally ill, we need to have the go on line and get trolled and harassed by groups of people pretending to be bully Guidos and fake heart-sweets? Brilliant.

Chris won't seek out professional help though, believe me, I've tried to put him in that direction.

As a matter of fact, "Renee" suggested that he give this place a call http://mha.avenue.org/ and he told her to basically drop dead. I haven't dropped that text yet because I don't want to start another shit storm of controversy.

Chris can't be forced into a mental health intervention (although this could all change after his hearing) he has though, on occasion, listened to reasonable/helpful advice from online gal-pals. I never said that this was ideal, but it's better than only having bat shit crazy Barb to talk to.