OK, fair enough, I can accept that you and all the TERFs on this forum who keep dogpiling my posts to let me know how much they hate me for defending Kalvin's transition, I can see that you're coming at this from a strict gender critical position where you view someone like Kalvin or Blaire only as victims of gender norms, but let me ask you this:
(I don't remember what Kalvin's name was pre-transition, I am sure he has mentioned this in a video but I am so used to seeing him as a boy that I can't even recall his female name, so I am just gonna use "Kalvin" retroactively)
What would you, if you were Kalvin's parent, say to a young girl like Kalvin who 1) had only male friends 2) was so used to being around the boys and acting like a boy that she did not differentiate between what boys are allowed to do and what girls are allowed to do, when she saw her male friends taking their shirts off, she too decided to take her shirt off because she didn't think anything of it?
Would you tell Kalvin to put their clothes back on "because you're a girl and girls don't do that"?
Would you tell Kalvin that it's wrong or shameful for girls to take their shirt off the way boys are allowed to? (ie, teaching them body shame)
What would you say if Kalvin wanted to argue about it? ("Why is it wrong for girls to take their shirt of, if the boys are allowed to do it?")
Would you tell Kalvin to stop hanging out with their male friends and tell them to go and hang out with girls more? (a lot of girls are prudish/judgemental and disapproving of girls who want to go topless in front of other women too.)
Or would you be the extremely progressive parent and tell Kalvin to go ahead and take their shirt off in the presence of boys, knowing that your daughter is very likely to get teased or groped by the boys for doing that?
I don't think all these know-it-all know-better TERFs have a practical answer to any of these questions. I bet all these TERFs who say that you should raise your kids in a gender neutral way wouldn't know what the right thing to do in this situation would be either. Hell, if they were truly militant feminists, they would probably tell Kalvin to cover up and fear/avoid all their male friends for being potential rapists. Isn't that how TERFs think about men? The militant feminist idea is that, if a woman takes off her shirt before a man she is voluntairly sexualizing herself, and that's the moment the man stops seeing her as a person and starts viewing her as a piece of meat he can grab at will. TERFs think that the moment a man views a pair of tits is the moment he loses his fucking mind. How is that not reinforcing gender stereotypes? Telling people to raise their kids in a gender neutral way is easier said than done. TERFs never consider the actual practical nitty gritty consequences of what they are advocating with gender neutral parenting.
First off, way off base. I'm not a "Terf", I'm not even a feminist. I'm just calling it like I see it. Perhaps this is because I've seen first-hand what some GNC people have to go through that it's easy for me to see them want to escape into the trans stuff..
To answer your hypothetical if I had a daughter who wanted to do things that boys can do, specifically the not wearing a top while swimming or anything like that, obviously it's a tough area. I would like to say I would just let her do it but unfortunately we live in the western world and this is one Gender norm that has been pretty much ingrained into society. I would just have to sit her down and explain why it wouldn't be appropriate. I would still let her express herself in a masculine manner. Ultimately I would let her decide what she wants to wear and this includes family functions. If she didn't want to wear a dress, no problem, she can wear a suit or button down and slacks. And this extends to if I had an effeminate son who wanted to look feminine. I would let him wear dresses, nail polish, let him grow his hair out (but the deal would be he needs to take care of it), and so on.
On the topless thing, this is a big one that can definitely cause a girl to be uncomfortable with her breasts because of society and how women are not allowed to go out topless and could warp her mind into thinking she must be a boy because "normal" girls don't want to walk around topless. I do think this is something the western world should work on because there are countries where women can walk around topless and it's not seen as a big deal.
Yeah, sorry not sorry, but if I had to choose...
I would always perfer having Blaire as a daughter or Kalvin as a son than some "gender non-conforming" SJW-tumblr-leftist-feminist/feminist cuck brat as a child. I don't care if that's a "better concept for this issue" on paper - you could tell that in your Gender Studies class for all I care. That's some radical feminist bullshit beyond "oh, let's see how we could treat dysphoria before taking important decisions, suicide rates are high after surgery" (100% agree) or even the plain old "transgenders are just fags!!!!"
I guess some people's dream-person is, in fact, Leah Tverly. So much so they would love to raise kids like her?
Or just don't see how their pet theory would look in reality?
Give me all the hats now, lol.
First off, you do understand that not all gender nonconforming people are SJW-tards right? It's just that because gender nonconforming people are treated like freaks, they can be more suspetible to that toxicity. If a GNC kid has a loving home and supportive friends (who aren't a part of the hyper SJW crowd), they can be pleasant people to be around. I have a friend who is gender nonconforming. He wears long wigs, makeup (on the daily), sometimes wears dresses, and most of his wardrobe is women's clothing (I've helped him shop). He's not an SJW at all. While he did share that his family doesn't really accept him, he had some supportive friends that never gave him problems for his expression.
I don't know who this Leah Tverly but I'm assuming she's some really butchy girl who seems off her rocker and fair enough, she's crazy but she doesn't represent all GNC people.
Almost anyone would rather have a trans son/friend/coworker than a butch lesbian daughter/friend/coworker/etc. That's like 90% of the problem. No one likes gender non-conforming people and since the trans shit has been going on so long, young GNC teens have no role models other than everyone telling them to transition. That's the element no one seems to grasp but it's the most important one when your talking about trans men like Kalvin. Everyone hates women that are too masculine. It's just a fact.
This here. Regarding my friend, I'm very observant of how people can be when we're out together in public. He gets stared at sometimes and he has been called a "Fag" by some guys. It used to make me uncomfortable at first until I learned to not care what others thought. I remember we talked about his before and he said he was used to it so it didn't bother him. He doesn't really fit in with his male coworkers neither. In short, people aren't the most accepting of him for who he is yet it wasn't enough to turn him "normal". And from what he's shared with me, he says that other guys just like him go through the same thing but they just more or less roll with it. And when this trans stuff started happening, I remember asking him if anyone thought he was trans and he said that he had been asked a few times.
I don't know any butch girls personally but I remember one in high school who would get bullied by other girls and a few guys because she liked "guyish". Not sure how she is these days but yeah, it's true that a lot of people don't really accept gender nonconforming men and women and would prefer a trans person because "then it makes sense".
I personally don't care if someone is gay, lol.
And with women 9/10 times you think "oh, that's def a butch lesbian!" you will find out she has a boyfriend/husband and is just a woman who just likes that aesthetic (ask any (femme) gay woman about it). So I try not to do that.
Even if I think "Oooh, is that person gay?" I don't think "That's a gender non-conforming person, maybe xir/xer pronouns?" And I don't think most people do. I hope so, anyways...
I don't think somebody who hates "the gays" would be more accepting of a transgendered person - that doesn't make any sense? Could you elaborate how that would work?
To answer your last part, it's not about gay, it's about gender expression. It is true that on average a person who doesn't like Gender nonconforming people (especially if they're GNC men), they would be more accepting of a "Transwoman" becasue like I mentioned above, it would "Make sense" why this male wants to look feminine because "he has the soul/mind of a woman in a male body" or other similar nonsense like that, especially since the Trans narrative has been being pushed in the media for a good long while now. Most people don't want to be labeled as transphobic so they'll go with it but will still be unaccepting of a man or a woman who chooses to break gender norms.
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