ANTIFA / Antifascist Action / Antifaschistische Aktion - The anti-fascist gang with fascist tendencies

MembersSchoolPizza said:
It's a poorly organized organization, perhaps, and I would argue that's intentional, but just because it's not as much of a formal cult as BAM is, doesn't mean it isn't an organization.
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More like not an organization at all, any more than juggalos are an organization.
 
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Or "idiots" - sure, it defines a group, but the group doesn't have enough shared purpose, internal cohesion or organized rank and file to ever coalesce into anything the law would recognize as such when it comes to holding a "group" liable for actions of it's "members".
 
BustyLady said:
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Where are those level 4 fascists when you need them? I'd love to see them come out and cave in some antifa skulls tbh. I know I keep advocating for violence against antifa and that may be wrong, but how can you NOT want to stomp their heads in when you see the way they behave?
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a lot of far right (both authoritarian and liberal) have decided to take the fallout strategy.

They agree society is a collapsing.
They see sh it like Baltimore, detroit, Gary Indiana fall apart under Democratic control.
So their current strategy is to go off grid (most ideally in a cabin in a woods somewhere if they can), let democrats take over, let them liberals fuck shit up, allow stuff collapse and then come back.

ever noticed in absence of an opposing force leftists tend to turn on each other? That's the other reason. Many far right believe if they ghost it leftist groups (such as antifa) will splinter and turn on each other when no longer faced with an opposing outside force. Why fight someone when they will hang themselves willingly?

so no you won't see some fascist bullet hose these anti fa demonstrations. Maybe they attack some innocent packing heat and get shot that way but anyone who sincere won't be showing up at all
 
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Gazed too deep said:
Would you say it's more like a gang then? Akin to the many different street crews who might call themselves Crips or Bloods or whatnot?
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Well, the FBI calls juggalos a gang, so I suppose sort of like that kind of thing. Everyone thinks the FBI is really fucking dumb for doing that, though.

Or more like calling "Anonymous" a gang and imputing anything some dumbass in a Guy Fawkes mask does to anyone else who also does that. Or calling the "alt-right" or even "neo-Nazis" in general an organization.
 
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Gazed too deep said:
Would you say it's more like a gang then? Akin to the many different street crews who might call themselves Crips or Bloods or whatnot?
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They absolutely are, just like Crips, Bloods, and even Juggalos (per the FBI). They have common colors (black and red) and gang signs (the three arrows, anarchy symbol, red flag) and are organized in the same loose structure common to a lot of street gangs. There are initiations to join and codes of conduct to follow while you're in the gang. Just like the Crips, you don't need permission from some national group to start calling yourselves Antifa. Each state has their own definition of gang and there's a convincing argument that Antifa can be legally declared a gang in many states plus federally by the FBI. This gives the courts another means to kick Antifa's shit in since gang-related crime is always punished more harshly plus there's gang injunction orders in many states that could be used against known Antifa members to ban them from protests the same way in some cities the Crips can't hang out at the park in full colors.

Incidentally, Antifa (under the name "Anti-Fascists") is on a Florida gang list next to the Crips, KKK, and Hells Angels (search FBI gang information list, it's from a few years ago and also names the Juggalos as a gang). Personally I'd declare Antifa a gang rather than a terrorist group.
 
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Save the Loli said:
They absolutely are, just like Crips, Bloods, and even Juggalos (per the FBI). They have common colors (black and red) and gang signs (the three arrows, anarchy symbol, red flag) and are organized in the same loose structure common to a lot of street gangs. There are initiations to join and codes of conduct to follow while you're in the gang. Just like the Crips, you don't need permission from some national group to start calling yourselves Antifa. Each state has their own definition of gang and there's a convincing argument that Antifa can be legally declared a gang in many states plus federally by the FBI.
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Doing that doesn't really allow you to just shut them down, any more than you can shut down anyone calling themselves "juggalos" just because there is also a semi-organized actual gang that uses juggalo trappings, which is why the FBI has dumbly confused the issue by calling "juggalos" a gang when they really aren't.

Anything that purports to create criminal liability by mere association is going to run afoul of the First Amendment right of association, which prohibits the government from just declaring it illegal to be in a group they don't like.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, when you have an entity, let's use that term for a moment, when you have an entity that has the ability to organize events, to communicate those plans, to a group of members that consistently show up to said events? Everyone involved in that process is standing up to be counted a member of an organization. Just because you don't have a membership roster as such, or a formal code of conduct, whatever? Doesn't matter to me.
 
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MembersSchoolPizza said:
As far as I'm concerned, when you have an entity, let's use that term for a moment, when you have an entity that has the ability to organize events, to communicate those plans, to a group of members that consistently show up to said events? Everyone involved in that process is standing up to be counted a member of an organization. Just because you don't have a membership roster as such, or a formal code of conduct, whatever? Doesn't matter to me.
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Juggalos do that too. So do Wal-Mart Christmas sales, flash mobs, literally any protest of anything, etc. If you think that means you can outlaw any of those things, you're delusional.
 
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CharlesBarkley said:
Most states just need to get rid of masked protest. Most of these guys would puss out on riot/looting and calling blacks uncle Tom's without the mask.

I mean, if you really believe violence is an appropriate answer, kind of a cucked coward to not have the fortitude to associate your vigilantism with your identity.
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I'm not willing to abrogate First Amendment freedoms just because some people abuse them. Why not just arrest them if they break an actual law? There are cops already there and once someone actually commits a crime there is absolutely no reason not to unmask them and their activities and identities become a matter of public record.
 
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AnOminous said:
I'm not willing to abrogate First Amendment freedoms just because some people abuse them. Why not just arrest them if they break an actual law? There are cops already there and once someone actually commits a crime there is absolutely no reason not to unmask them and their activities and identities become a matter of public record.
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Because black block and gang hiding tactics? It's hard to pick out one lanky white dude in a mask next to a large group of similar. It's either remove the mask or accept law enforcement being more useless then they already are on these matters, in my opinion.
 
CharlesBarkley said:
Because black block and gang hiding tactics? It's hard to pick out one lanky white dude in a mask next to a large group of similar. It's either remove the mask or accept law enforcement being more useless then they already are on these matters, in my opinion.
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If they're in a position to remove the masks of an entire mob of people, then they're in a position to enforce the law against anyone who breaks it, or read the riot act to the very same crowd.
 
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AnOminous said:
If they're in a position to remove the masks of an entire mob of people, then they're in a position to enforce the law against anyone who breaks it, or read the riot act to the very same crowd.
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I would settle for firing rubber bullets at any mob of masked rioters to improve law enforcement's efforts.
 
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AnOminous said:
I'm not willing to abrogate First Amendment freedoms just because some people abuse them. Why not just arrest them if they break an actual law? There are cops already there and once someone actually commits a crime there is absolutely no reason not to unmask them and their activities and identities become a matter of public record.
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I was under the impression that every single state had exceptions for masks worn for legitimate purposes, like costume parties, conventions, etc. Frankly, in most cases, it's easy to establish that a bunch of AntiFa all masked up, and all harassing/assaulting people aren't using their masks for legitimate purposes, any more than guys wearing masks of former presidents while robbing a bank are.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the 1st Amendment 'right to association' that bars a law that specifies that the police can ask you to identify yourself, if there's grounds to suspect involvement in a crime; if ANYTHING, such an exception might reasonably found under the 4th Amendment, based on a reasonable expectation of privacy, but I think you're going to sound like an idiot, arguing with a judge, and trying to claim you had a right to remain masked while a bunch of other masked assholes were rioting, disturbing the peace, assaulting and harassing people, and being destructive speds.
 
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