Anti-Vax Movement

[Peter Capaldi]

All these idiots should be locked up in iron lungs:

Yeah, even if vaccines could cause autism, who wouldn't rather have autism than polio anyways? And that's debunked so many times, we're practically beating a dead horse with science reports about it now.

 

[Vitriol]

"Remember Polio? I don't! You know why? VACCINES!"

I'd like to talk about this, anti vaccers generally try and avoid discussing the decrease in disease, but there was a tumblr post earlier in the thread that brought up a point i've occasionally heard before and would like to highlight.

The line of thought goes that the reason behind the decrease in polio, whooping cough, measles etc in the last century was caused by people eating better and having better hygiene.

Despite the fact that everyone in the modern world still catches other lesser viruses Somehow washing more and eating better stopped the really bad ones.

Bask in the stupidity of that for a while.

the cure for polio? Vaccines? Naw mate. soap.

But i suppose if you're a gendertriangle hemipeen or whatever you might be more accustomed to fantasy than I am or indeed the medical profession in general.

 

[Bluce Wee]

The line of thought goes that the reason behind the decrease in polio, whooping cough, measles etc in the last century was caused by people eating better and having better hygiene.

Should just point them to CWC to debunk that stupidity. He'd have everything if all it took was a nightly shower and an apple a day to keep polio away.

Better hygiene and better diet does contribute to health but just because eating fruit keeps scurvy away, that doesn't mean that it'll do the same against bacterial/viral infections and genetic diseases. It's homeopathic hand-waving nonsense, like the idea that drinking bleach will kill the "parasites" that cause autism.

 

[Shokew]

To the anti-vaxxers corporations are inherently bad and out to hurt us. Sometimes to make money, but usually just because they're evil for evil's sake. The idea that a corporation is made up of many people, good, bad, and in-between, is simply too complex a thought for them.

They have critical thinking skills and ability to separate fantasy from reality on par with Chris. So sound arguments and logic are useless against them. The only way to stop anti-vaxxers from harming others is simple, brute force like losing custody of their children and serving time in prison.

When the fuck are people going to learn that if there were no corporations, there would only be mom - and - pop stores, and ultimately, no jobs for anyone?!
It's okay to not trust corporations (aka the people who run them or their ethics about business, specifically!), but to do away with them for that asinine and job - killing alternative?! No, fuck you, go get injected already and be grateful those of who are against you and your anti-vax BS don't throw you out of this nation by force.

 

[AnOminous]

Except that the parents don't die, the kids do. The kids never got to choose what parents they got.

I suppose I could make a moronic comment about genes and evolution here, but you're right. Kids don't deserve to die for the stupidity of their parents, however often they actually do.

 

[Dilligaff]

I am especially puzzled by the repeated shrill refrain of "vaccines aren't totally safe! People have had complications and died!" Yeah, well no shit, nothing is 100% safe. People die from all kinds of things like car accidents and I don't see anyone shrilly screaming about the dangers of cars and how we should ban them all and how the auto corporations are conspiring to keep us all under their thumb. (If I were inclined to conspiracy theories, I'd be more likely to buy that one).

I apologize if this has been covered before in the thread - today I stumbled upon some idiot screaming about how the government has shelled out a lot of money in compensation for damages caused by vaccines - they neglected to mention the very low number of people and that it happened over the course of almost 3 decades. I had to come to the Farms and vent because the stupid burns me more and more whenever I see it.

 

[Peter Capaldi]

I am especially puzzled by the repeated shrill refrain of "vaccines aren't totally safe! People have had complications and died!" Yeah, well no shit, nothing is 100% safe. People die from all kinds of things like car accidents and I don't see anyone shrilly screaming about the dangers of cars and how we should ban them all and how the auto corporations are conspiring to keep us all under their thumb. (If I were inclined to conspiracy theories, I'd be more likely to buy that one).

From what I have heard, the chance of someone getting complications and ending up dead from vaccines is a chance of 1 in a million. The average chance of getting hit by lightning is 1 in 300,000 (worldwide). I really don't need to add anything to that, I think.

 

[Bluce Wee]

I am especially puzzled by the repeated shrill refrain of "vaccines aren't totally safe! People have had complications and died!" Yeah, well no shit, nothing is 100% safe. People die from all kinds of things like car accidents and I don't see anyone shrilly screaming about the dangers of cars and how we should ban them all and how the auto corporations are conspiring to keep us all under their thumb. (If I were inclined to conspiracy theories, I'd be more likely to buy that one).

Anti-vaxxers are one of the few internet lolcows that genuinely enrage me...so naturally I've done a lot of reading on the subject. It seems that anti-vaxxer thought comes in the following varieties:

- The otherwise sane parent doing risk management: "I've read this emotionally appealing, logically-sounding literature that suggests a connection between the vaccine and autism. Even if there isn't a connection, there are legitimate complications that can happen as a result of them. On the other hand, I have never heard of someone getting measles. So it doesn't make sense to run the risk of (autism/allergic reaction/etc) if everyone else is vaccinated and my kid has no chance of getting it anyway." Problem with that thought process is that while Johnny's parents are thinking their kid will be safe from measles because nobody else around him has it...they're not aware of the fact that parents in the houses around them are going through the same rationalization.

- The sociopath: "My kid is the only thing that matters. He's not getting vaccinated because _____ and if that causes problems for your kid, then fuck you."

- The conspiracy theorist: "Big Pharma is in cahoots with Big Government to take away our rights/control our bodies/insert microchips into us via vaccines/give us autism so we have to keep buying medicine/etc etc."

EDIT - I forgot the hippie dippie type: "Vaccines contain CHEMICALS that will POISON you and the sicknesses that they protect against are NATURAL and your body will be stronger for overcoming them NATURALLY with NATURAL remedies."

and the Super Mommy: "As a mother, I'm naturally more in tune with my child's body and I know more about what my Angel needs than some doctor. Mommy sense, gut feeling, biotruths, etc etc."

 

[ChurchOfGodBear]

Oh, I'm all for choice.
It's like car insurance. If you don't want to get it, then hey, you can't use public roads.

You don't want to vaccinate your kids? Fine. You don't get to use public school or state licenced care. You can homeschool your little diseased spawn where they can get all the preventable diseases your heart desires for them.

This is, IMO, probably the best way to enforce vaccination. Do you have the right to not vaccinate your kid? Well... I guess. We won't put you in jail for not doing it(tempting as it is...) But vaccinations should be mandatory for all public schools (and all sensible private ones) and all day care centers. So if you don't vaccinate, you NEED to homeschool. Don't like it? Tough, you opted out of the system, you face the consequences. And if your homeschooled kid doesn't meet minimum standards, CPS takes them (and vaccinates them!) and you face charges of neglect and truancy.

And you WILL go to jail for that.

 

[Randall Fragg]

I will say, the one possible upside to a major outbreak of preventable disease would be a thorough discrediting of anti-vaxxers.
Few Americans alive remember what the world was like when polio and measles ran unchecked. An outbreak would provide a reminder of those times.
If the anti-vaxxers causes a large outbreak, it's going to end with a lawsuit.

 

[Bluce Wee]

I will say, the one possible upside to a major outbreak of preventable disease would be a thorough discrediting of anti-vaxxers.
Few Americans alive remember what the world was like when polio and measles ran unchecked. An outbreak would provide a reminder of those times.
If the anti-vaxxers causes a large outbreak, it's going to end with a lawsuit.

Unfortunately, they wouldn't be the only victims. There's always people who are allergic to vaccinations or who have weakened immune systems and can't be vaccinated or have whatever legitimate reason to not be vaccinated and who rely on everyone else vaccinating to stay safe. That and the fact that it's the kids who are going to be the ones who die, not the parents who were likely vaccinated when they were kids. Those kids didn't choose to be born to morons.

 

[An Ounce of Vagina]

I will say, the one possible upside to a major outbreak of preventable disease would be a thorough discrediting of anti-vaxxers.
Few Americans alive remember what the world was like when polio and measles ran unchecked. An outbreak would provide a reminder of those times.
If the anti-vaxxers causes a large outbreak, it's going to end with a lawsuit.

They'd just claim it was Big Pharma poisoning their kids somehow or some other excuse that would shift the blame from themselves. Just like AIDS denialists do when their children die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Jane_Scovill


Reason is useless on those who are by definition unreasonable. They won't change their minds because they've already decided that they are right and anyone who says otherwise is a sheeple or part of the conspiracy. Society's only option is to remove the children from these unsafe homes and put the parents in prison.

 

[ChurchOfGodBear]

Reason is useless on those who are by definition unreasonable. They won't change their minds because they've already decided that they are right and anyone who says otherwise is a sheeple or part of the conspiracy. Society's only option is to remove the children from these unsafe homes and put the parents in prison.

I completely agree with everything you just said. However, it's worth nothing that history shows that very bad things happen when you let the government lock people up because they think incorrectly.

 

[An Ounce of Vagina]

I completely agree with everything you just said. However, it's worth nothing that history shows that very bad things happen when you let the government lock people up because they think incorrectly.

This isn't thinking incorrectly. Not getting your kids vaccinated is acting incorrectly. Same way that thinking of robbing a bank is not a crime but actually following through is.

 

[Roger Rabbit]

If I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times..... these people are fucking stupid.

Especially for the fact that now there's this big measles epidemic at Disneyland just because some morons wouldn't give their kid a shot.

 

[For The Internet]

broadly speaking i agree with you, however while a lot are pro-life plenty are pro-choice running the 'its my choice' argument. Parts of LA have vaccination rates comparable to sudan- and its not the poor parts.


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...tion-rates-are-as-low-as-south-sudans/380252/

Oh, I realise that. Half the anti-vaxxers are religious conservative anti-choicers and the other half are pro-choice liberal crunchy rich white people, basically.

 

[harvey dirdban]

That doesn't answer the question.
Say, if you had to choose between 10,000 children developing autism, and one dying, which would you prefer?

For every Chris or ADF in the world there are thousands if not millions of autistic people who successfully manage their condition and contribute to society to the best of their ability. You know who can't do that? Dead people.

 

[ChurchOfGodBear]

This isn't thinking incorrectly. Not getting your kids vaccinated is acting incorrectly. Same way that thinking of robbing a bank is not a crime but actually following through is.

I think that, and you think that. But as long as this gets filed under "personal choice" we need to tread very lightly.

 

[Mrs Paul]

For every Chris or ADF in the world there are thousands if not millions of autistic people who successfully manage their condition and contribute to society to the best of their ability. You know who can't do that? Dead people.

And as awful as Chris is, he doesn't deserve to die of some horrible disease.

You know, the government doesn't give people total control over their childrens' healthcare. If you have a child with cancer and refuse to get them chemo, and insist on "alternative medicine", chances are, you'll be prosecuted. How is this any different? It's child abuse, if you ask me.

 

[Lipitor]

For every Chris or ADF in the world there are thousands if not millions of autistic people who successfully manage their condition and contribute to society to the best of their ability. You know who can't do that? Dead people.

The reality is its more like thousands dying for every autistic. I've known people more severely affected by autism than Chris who still managed to work jobs (despite them being menial). I agree with what you're saying. Autism does not condemn you to the same life as Chris.