Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Le Bateleur]

I think the fact that Chris was trolled to the point of paranoia is sad and regrettable

I hope that future study of Chris will give greater attention to the lengths the more organised "classic"trolls went to in order to control and humiliate a disabled man.

 

[Marvin]

Regardless of the moral question of whether or not Chris "deserves" his fame, he's got it regardless. Fame isn't something you necessarily earn.

Like child actors, for example, don't willingly become famous. But they still have to deal with the consequences of their fame when they're adults.

I think the fact that Chris was trolled to the point of paranoia is sad and regrettable

I hope that future study of Chris will give greater attention to the lengths the more organised "classic"trolls went to in order to control and humiliate a disabled man.

Why don't you do that now?

 

[Thetan]

Regardless of the moral question of whether or not Chris "deserves" his fame, he's got it regardless. Fame isn't something you necessarily earn.

Like child actors, for example, don't willingly become famous. But they still have to deal with the consequences of their fame when they're adults.

Why don't you do that now?

If Chris simply lays low for awhile, he'll end up being largely forgotten, except by a small group of people (Christorians and other similarly interested parties). There are plenty of other cows to provide amusement / entertainment.

By and large, the Internet had pretty much forgotten about Chris until the GameStop incident, which reawakened interest in him and introduced a lot of new people to him as well. Chris was also close to fading into virtual obscurity a few years ago, where we heard almost nothing from him.

There's an object lesson here which Chris has still failed to learn.

 

[Marvin]

If Chris simply lays low for awhile, he'll end up being largely forgotten, except by a small group of people (Christorians and other similarly interested parties). There are plenty of other cows to provide amusement / entertainment.

By and large, the Internet had pretty much forgotten about Chris until the GameStop incident, which reawakened interest in him and introduced a lot of new people to him as well. Chris was also close to fading into virtual obscurity a few years ago, where we heard almost nothing from him.

There's an object lesson here which Chris has still failed to learn.

Well, and he was doing fantastically in 2013. If he so desires, Chris is able to hide from his notoriety very well. The fire (understandably) affected his judgement. Well, and he's making a bunch of money from ebay, so that influences things too.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Why don't you do that now?

I think I do, to the extent I can given the current climate without being widely accused of white knighting or P-Logging. I did my share of dissenting over the stuff that came out late last year; there's only so far you can swim against the current before you get ignored as a contrarian.

Besides, it's not the time for full-blown revisionist Christory, not yet. There's been a change in the past few years - the feeling that Chris deserves everything that was done to him is starting to dissipate, for one thing. However, Chris is so increasingly antisocial and unlikeable that his status as folk villain still confers a de facto folk heroism onto his tormentors.

When there's more distance from the event, and less chance of personal vendettas against those who were involved, then I think there'll be a further re-evaluation - and maybe views like mine will be seen as being in some way prescient.

 

[Thetan]

Well, and he was doing fantastically in 2013. If he so desires, Chris is able to hide from his notoriety very well. The fire (understandably) affected his judgement. Well, and he's making a bunch of money from ebay, so that influences things too.

Good points.

He started that ridiculous Facebook group as well, which, to no one's surprise, turned out to be a huge ween magnet. I know this is Chris we're talking about but I still have to wonder what he was thinking. How did he honestly expect this little venture to turn out?

 

[Ravenor]

Good points.

He started that ridiculous Facebook group as well, which, to no one's surprise, turned out to be a huge ween magnet. I know this is Chris we're talking about but I still have to wonder what he was thinking. How did he honestly expect this little venture to turn out?

I doubt he was thinking.

 

[Thetan]

I think I do, to the extent I can given the current climate without being widely accused of white knighting or P-Logging. I did my share of dissenting over the stuff that came out late last year; there's only so far you can swim against the current before you get ignored as a contrarian.

Besides, it's not the time for full-blown revisionist Christory, not yet. There's been a change in the past few years - the feeling that Chris deserves everything that was done to him is starting to dissipate, for one thing. However, Chris is so increasingly antisocial and unlikeable that his status as folk villain still confers a de facto folk heroism onto his tormentors.

When there's more distance from the event, and less chance of personal vendettas against those who were involved, then I think there'll be a further re-evaluation - and maybe views like mine will be seen as being in some way prescient.

I don't think that the general view here is that Chris *deserves* to be trolled: it's more a case of him doing certain things that inevitably attract the attention of the trolls (as in the examples I mentioned up-thread).

I'm probably way off base here, but sometimes I wonder if Chris is so desperate for attention that even attention from the trolls is welcome (which is sad): either that, or he's simply incapable of learning from past mistakes.

I think I do, to the extent I can given the current climate without being widely accused of white knighting or P-Logging. I did my share of dissenting over the stuff that came out late last year; there's only so far you can swim against the current before you get ignored as a contrarian.

I honestly never though you were simply being a contrarian, you've raised some very good points and have contributed in a meaningful way to the discussions on this forum.

Chris engenders very strong opinions and emotions in people, and I doubt that we'll ever reach any kind of consensus. If this was just another Internet "hugbox" or "echo chamber" with everyone agreeing with each other all of the time, it would be incredibly boring. It's nice to have a contrarian or two to spice things up.

 

[Cynical]

I don't think that the general view here is that Chris *deserves* to be trolled: it's more a case of him doing certain things that inevitably attract the attention of the trolls (as in the examples I mentioned up-thread).

I'm probably way off base here, but sometimes I wonder if Chris is so desperate for attention that even attention from the trolls is welcome (which is sad): either that, or he's simply incapable of learning from past mistakes.

I'm inclined to believe a part of him is so desperate for attention he'll take it from anyone, even trolls, despite his paranoia. I say that because Chris comes off as pretty desperate for social interaction a lot of the time, and even though he hates negative attention, a part of him has comes to accept that (while not following that its logical conclusion and doing something to change the status quo because he believes the world needs to change for him) because it's basically all he's gonna get, given his inability to change almost all of the ridiculous, creepy, and idiotic aspects about himself for the better.

In short, I'd say probably a bit of both, so trolls are both his nemesis and his passport to what resembles a social life.

Also, he's recently learned he can monetize parts of his lolcowdom, and given his greed and indulgence coupled with taking the easy way through life, the trolling partially serve a way to keep his "brand" lucrative, though he probably understands this in a very shallow way.

 

[Le Bateleur]

I don't think that the general view here is that Chris *deserves* to be trolled: it's more a case of him doing certain things that inevitably attract the attention of the trolls (as in the examples I mentioned up-thread).

I agree that the current general view here is not that Chris deserved the trolling. However, reading older sources - such as some parts of the CWCki - there's a real effort to monster him in order to justify the actions of Bluespike et al. For instance, his homophobia and racism are played up, and he's accused of paedophilia.

 

[Clown Doll]

For instance, his homophobia and racism are played up

Back when Chris was more active(think 2008-2009) his homophobia was a real deal, directly inconveniencing Michael Snyder and the people who happened to be around ThE GaMe PlAce or whatever it was called. He was making people's lives more miserable with his anti-homo rants, as harmless they seem to us now. I think that no, Chris didn't receive a fair treatment with the ED article painting him as a pedophile, but his character was making people seriously uncomfortable in real life. Does it justify active trolling? It's up for debate, but I think that his extremely unlikeable character really helped to cause a lot of people to think like that in that regard.

I guess the point here is that people didn't have as much information on Chris then as they do now, and people's view of Chris has mellowed out over the years so now that we understand Chris' way of thinking more and that he has outwardly changed from his 2009-era self, people think about his fairly extreme opinions as harmless since they're something that happened such long of a time ago.

 

[milkshark]

Back when Chris was more active(think 2008-2009) his homophobia was a real deal, directly inconveniencing Michael Snyder and the people who happened to be around ThE GaMe PlAce or whatever it was called. He was making people's lives more miserable with his anti-homo rants, as harmless they seem to us now.

Yeah, Chris' desire to be a figurehead for a cause made him into a hardcore homophobe. He kept overcompensating in response to teasing, and I guess Bob and Barb didn't mind it because nobody ever told him to stop. With Tomgirl happening, he threw his hands up in a cartoonish "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" fashion and ditched the homophobia. It made him a lot nicer in general and had a good effect on his ability to gain sympathy and true, money spending fans. His last arrest though is still linked to his strong desire to be a figurehead for a cause, this time it's the No Blarms Movement.

 

[DrunkTails]

Yeah, Chris' desire to be a figurehead for a cause made him into a hardcore homophobe. He kept overcompensating in response to teasing, and I guess Bob and Barb didn't mind it because nobody ever told him to stop. With Tomgirl happening, he threw his hands up in a cartoonish "If you can't beat 'em join 'em" fashion and ditched the homophobia. It made him a lot nicer in general and had a good effect on his ability to gain sympathy and true, money spending fans. His last arrest though is still linked to his strong desire to be a figurehead for a cause, this time it's the No Blarms Movement.

I have to disagree with you on one thing. He still hates homosexual people, even with his lesbian in a man stuff he has come up with. the reason why Chris became a tomgirl is because he thinks that it will be his chance to attract a girl. In his mind he thinks:

Tomgirl +Tomboy=China

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

He still hates homosexual people, even with his lesbian in a man stuff he has come up with

I think he hates gay men because he hates men. Bring a gay man is only a thing a man can do and not a woman, therefore it's bad and wrong just because only men do it.

 

[Miniscule Spritz]

But they're not stealing all the boyfriend-free girls. He seems to tolerate them.

 

[Atlas 95]

I have to disagree with you on one thing. He still hates homosexual people, even with his lesbian in a man stuff he has come up with. the reason why Chris became a tomgirl is because he thinks that it will be his chance to attract a girl. In his mind he thinks:

Tomgirl +Tomboy=China

I don't think it's entirely a ploy to get a girl, but like Sonichu that just sneaks into everything Chris does. Getting the girl who will help him magically fix his life and get him that dream office job has been Chris's life goal now for so long I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have another one anymore, or can even think of another life plan. That complete fixation rubs off onto other things.
I don't think he likes homo's but he's willing to tolerate them now so he's at least made some progress on that front. He hates them because they're men, not because they're gay

 

[milkshark]

I have to disagree with you on one thing. He still hates homosexual people, even with his lesbian in a man stuff he has come up with. the reason why Chris became a tomgirl is because he thinks that it will be his chance to attract a girl. In his mind he thinks:

Tomgirl +Tomboy=China

Yeah, his predisposition for hatred of something (anything) and desire for adversaries shifts from time to time. If he's particularly incensed by trolls he will feel okay embracing his "lesbian" status and throwing a bone to gay males, figuratively speaking as far as I know. Not long ago he declared on Facebook that he has no issues with any LGBT, male or female. He's just thickheaded about identifying as attracted to women. He still wants a passive role in romance because that suits him best, even though it's not working at all. Chris expects a "Tomboy" girl to desire him and approach him in public, at McDonald's or Walmart. Somehow it's not happening and it's not Chris' fault, it's gotta be Trolls, or Megan, or MALES. The point is that Chris hates anybody that stands in the way of his happiness, whether it's true or not, depending on how he feels.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Chris hates anybody that stands in his happiness

Chris hates anybody that isn't immediately useful to him. That's how powerful his belief is that the world owes him. He dislikes the very idea that not everything/everyone is here for his needs.

 

[DrunkTails]

Chris hates anybody that isn't immediately useful to him. That's how powerful his belief is that the world owes him. He dislikes the very idea that not everything/everyone is here for his needs.

I think that the best way to see how Chris thinks is how he always called himself the great director Chandler. He literally views the world as the stage and all the people in it are the side actors who have to faun and adore him and only him. When an actor does not do what he wants, he views it as some one ruining his play. That someone can be better or more important than him, the main actor, is blasphemy In his eyes.

 

[WhoWantsStancakes]

I agree that he only deserved the trolling when it is deserved for example, trolling him into revealing shitting himself or his past homophobia was hilarious and justified, but telling him to shove a medallion up his ass wasn't. He's basically devolving into obscurity and only occasionally posting anything lulz-y. Literally the only reason people still care about him is to catalog him on the cwcki and hope for him to talk out of his ass sometime.

(Imo, at least)