Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[BadaBadaBoom]

Chris hates anybody that isn't immediately useful to him. That's how powerful his belief is that the world owes him. He dislikes the very idea that not everything/everyone is here for his needs.

This mentality is exactly why you have to question just what impact exactly the advent of trolls even had on his life was. The majority of his lovequest shenanigans happened before 4chan; his mistreatment of Megan was all on his own; his terrible spending habits; rampant homophobia; his house burning down was all his own stupidity; the blue arm issue; etc. and so forth. Chris has always been a train wreck. If trolls did not exist you can bet SOMETHING in his life would have caused a similar outcome of him being a 30-year-old mopey asshole.

So it's hard to question "troll ethics" beyond "Yeah, that could have been funnier." As I mentioned before, I think it was funnier in the past, but maybe that's just because Chris was funnier. Who knows? You can't really blame current troll ideas on how mean-spirited they may seem since younger Chris may have had a more goofy reaction to it all.

 

[Tubular Monkey]

Some people really enjoy feeling sorry for Chris. It's as simple as that.

 

[timtommy]

If Chris simply lays low for awhile, he'll end up being largely forgotten, except by a small group of people (Christorians and other similarly interested parties). There are plenty of other cows to provide amusement / entertainment.

By and large, the Internet had pretty much forgotten about Chris until the GameStop incident, which reawakened interest in him and introduced a lot of new people to him as well. Chris was also close to fading into virtual obscurity a few years ago, where we heard almost nothing from him.

There's an object lesson here which Chris has still failed to learn.

That's true. But it's fair to point out that "laying low" for Chris means laying very low. It's not as simple as "don't do stupid things in public." He would have to avoid making public social media posts (and probably all posts in general), avoid posting on internet message boards, not meet any new people online. His current "friends" include various levels of trolls, so he would have to be very careful about private communications as well.

My point is that laying low requires him to not do things most people his age do every day without thinking about it.

I agree that he only deserved the trolling when it is deserved for example, trolling him into revealing shitting himself or his past homophobia was hilarious and justified, but telling him to shove a medallion up his ass wasn't. He's basically devolving into obscurity and only occasionally posting anything lulz-y. Literally the only reason people still care about him is to catalog him on the cwcki and hope for him to talk out of his ass sometime.

(Imo, at least)

It's interesting that you think revealing his incontinence problem is "deserved" trolling. I don't have strong opinions about what is "deserved" and what isn't, but it seems that shaming him for an embarassing medical condition is one of the more cruel things we do.

 

[Marvin]

I think he hates gay men because he hates men. Bring a gay man is only a thing a man can do and not a woman, therefore it's bad and wrong just because only men do it.

Y'know, I think another reason why Chris hates gay men is that Chris can't fathom people disagreeing with him. Chris hates men so the idea of other people liking men is so bizarre to him. Like, he's thinking, "how can a man like men? Are you fucking kidding me? Men are horrible! What the shit?"

That's true. But it's fair to point out that "laying low" for Chris means laying very low. It's not as simple as "don't do stupid things in public." He would have to avoid making public social media posts (and probably all posts in general), avoid posting on internet message boards, not meet any new people online. His current "friends" include various levels of trolls, so he would have to be very careful about private communications as well.

My point is that laying low requires him to not do things most people his age do every day without thinking about it.

He was doing it very successfully though. I don't see any reason why he can't return to that.

 

[Atlas 95]

It's interesting that you think revealing his incontinence problem is "deserved" trolling. I don't have strong opinions about what is "deserved" and what isn't, but it seems that shaming him for an embarassing medical condition is one of the more cruel things we do.

If Chris actually tried to fix said condition I'd agree with you. As it stands, Chris still shits himself, knows he shits himself, knows its a bad thing and still refuses to correct the problem of him shitting himself. He's 32 years old, and he still hasn't even tried to fix it, and when he was offered a solution he rejected it because "that's for babies!"
Frankly, shaming him for all of that is entirely deserved

 

[John Furrman]

If Chris actually tried to fix said condition I'd agree with you. As it stands, Chris still shits himself, knows he shits himself, knows its a bad thing and still refuses to correct the problem of him shitting himself. He's 32 years old, and he still hasn't even tried to fix it, and when he was offered a solution he rejected it because "that's for babies!"
Frankly, shaming him for all of that is entirely deserved

Good luck shaming the shameless. If smelling like shit does not shame him, nothing we can possible say to him or about him could do so any better. Which leads me to the end game: Why do we want to shame chris? He does funny shit on his own and thoroughly shames himself.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

It's interesting that you think revealing his incontinence problem is "deserved" trolling. I don't have strong opinions about what is "deserved" and what isn't, but it seems that shaming him for an embarassing medical condition is one of the more cruel things we do.

"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences."
- Robert Green Ingersoll, some guy much smarter than me..

Chris doesn't deserve much "punishment" in the form of trolling, and a lot of bad things that happen to him are just consequences of his behavior. No one here thinks Michael Snyder wronged Chris with a ban. Maybe Snyder even felt bad for Chris, at first -he must have seen a lot of lonely odd people in the GAMe PLACe. But Chris was scaring off customers and Snyder was not equipped to correct his behavior. What choice did Snyder have?

Chris's incontinence is a real problem, but he does nothing to fix it. He doesn't deserve to hear "JULLLLAAAY!" in his phone for it, but he certainly "deserves" the discomfort of sitting in his own filth and having filthy clothes because he won't change his diet, or even wear depends.

 

[Marvin]

When there's more distance from the event, and less chance of personal vendettas against those who were involved, then I think there'll be a further re-evaluation - and maybe views like mine will be seen as being in some way prescient.

There are only a handful of people you might offend, and I don't think any of them are going to care.

I agree that the current general view here is not that Chris deserved the trolling. However, reading older sources - such as some parts of the CWCki - there's a real effort to monster him in order to justify the actions of Bluespike et al. For instance, his homophobia and racism are played up, and he's accused of paedophilia.

Chris trolling originated on ED and the early cwcki sourced a lot of its editors from that sort of culture. It'd be interesting to trace how attitudes on Chris have changed through cwcki edits.

 

[LazarusOwenhart]

This mentality is exactly why you have to question just what impact exactly the advent of trolls even had on his life was. The majority of his lovequest shenanigans happened before 4chan; his mistreatment of Megan was all on his own; his terrible spending habits; rampant homophobia; his house burning down was all his own stupidity; the blue arm issue; etc. and so forth. Chris has always been a train wreck. If trolls did not exist you can bet SOMETHING in his life would have caused a similar outcome of him being a 30-year-old mopey asshole.

So it's hard to question "troll ethics" beyond "Yeah, that could have been funnier." As I mentioned before, I think it was funnier in the past, but maybe that's just because Chris was funnier. Who knows? You can't really blame current troll ideas on how mean-spirited they may seem since younger Chris may have had a more goofy reaction to it all.

Saying that trolling had little effect on Chris is like saying the sun has little effect on ice. Of course there has been an effect and a fairly major one at that. The trolls provide Chris with something he needs, which is an enemy. He's had imaginary enemies his whole life, Boyfriends, Manajerks, Greene County, all of them entirely unaware that they are Chris enemy, the focus of his hatred and his driving force. Everyone has a driving force and we kid ourselves if we think our drives are healthy or acceptable. Take me, I get off on personal success, especially if that success is visible to others. I love being the best at what I do, whether it's my job or games or whatever I do. I'm not a bad loser by any means, I can take a loss with grace and magnanimity, but if I win I like other people to know they lost. Sometimes that means they buy me a beer or something, other times it means they lose a work visa and get sent back to Eastern Europe. My point is, that we all have drives. (Hellblazer only appears truly happy when he's locking my threads, for instance.)

Back on the subject of Chris, enemies drive him. Chris is a Saturday morning cartoon character whose every story is entirely dependant on the antagonist. We are Claw to his Inspector Gadget, Gargamel to his Smurfs. He has to have an evil to fight or it's not worth his trouble. Chris wants a girlfriend so he gets to beat the enemy, Noviophobia. Chris wants money so he can beat the enemy, Poverty. He has pepper spray to combat his enemies which in that particular case seem to be anyone in range. If Chris has nobody to fight, he does nothing. Without the trolls, Chris would have found another enemy and, depending on that enemy it's debatable whether his life would be better or worse because, and this is the important bit, the trolls will do him no real harm. No troll is going to turn up on his doorstep and kick him shitless. Hell, without the trolls he may have ended up with Michael Snyder as a real enemy because without trolling to distract him his Game Place antics might have been far graver, far sooner. Anyway I'm digressing into wild speculation.

Wall of text aside, yes Trolling has had a huge effect on Chris and will continue to do so his entire life. Whether or not that effect is a net gain for Chris is up for debate.

 

[timtommy]

He was doing it very successfully though. I don't see any reason why he can't return to that.

Agreed. No reason why he couldn't successfully lie low. I just think it is interesting that after years of doing really stupid public stuff, Chris can't just stop doing really stupid public stuff to avoid attention. He has to avoid doing all things that are not extremely private.

Chris's incontinence is a real problem, but he does nothing to fix it. He doesn't deserve to hear "JULLLLAAAY!" in his phone for it, but he certainly "deserves" the discomfort of sitting in his own filth and having filthy clothes because he won't change his diet, or even wear depends.

I suppose you could argue he "deserves" to have the medical problem because of his attitude about it. His diet is shitty, but lots of people have shitty diets and can hold it in. He doesn't wear Depends, which I grant you is weird. A lot of people of incontinence problems, and a lot of people could probably do more about it. My level of sympathy for him over the problem is moderate.

But most people who have it are able to keep it quiet. And when someone finds out about it they say "oh sorry man, that's really shitty" and don't laugh at them or spread it around. That is where Chris seems to have gotten a bit of an unusually raw deal in this case.

But overall, I think that worrying about whether Chris gets what he deserves is pointless. Sometimes he gets away with reprehensible stuff, or gets money for selling crappy art, and we say "he got lucky". Sometimes he gets mocked publicly for incontinence or has to deal with his crazy mother and we say "that sucks for him." Trying to come up with an equation to balance these factors is fruitless. Like every other human, he has lucky breaks and unlucky breaks.

 

[BadaBadaBoom]

Wall of text aside, yes Trolling has had a huge effect on Chris and will continue to do so his entire life. Whether or not that effect is a net gain for Chris is up for debate.

I suppose I should clarify. I'm not saying that trolls didn't have ANY effect on his life, it's just that the effect they had would be -as you pointed out - the same as any assortment of random bad guys and evildoers Chris comes up with on his own. Jerkops, Ass Managers, Witch Bitches, and the like are his own personal trolls he created for himself to justify everything he does and why he is forever in the right. Trolls are no different and have had no greater impact I feel than what Chris' own sordid imagination has created. Sure they are the ever present menace that he cannot and will not let go - but if no one trolled him ever? You can imagine some other villain would take their place.

Of course, it's impossible to to make a claim either way as the trolling has happened. I still feel that with or without people mocking him he would have still ended up in a shitty situation because of his negative mentality and terrible social skills.

Does that make trolling Chris good or bad? I mean, beyond obvious shit like Bluespike telling him to shove things in places it's hard for me to say. He does it to himself constantly and seemingly better than any fake girlfriend has ever managed to do.

 

[Morbid Boredom]

But overall, I think that worrying about whether Chris gets what he deserves is pointless. Sometimes he gets away with reprehensible stuff, or gets money for selling crappy art, and we say "he got lucky". Sometimes he gets mocked publicly for incontinence or has to deal with his crazy mother and we say "that sucks for him." Trying to come up with an equation to balance these factors is fruitless. Like every other human, he has lucky breaks and unlucky breaks.

Much of what we do here can be dismissed as pointless!

I understand people talk up the "Autism Card", but I don't think Chris gets away with much. Chris is selfish and stupid, and as a consequence, lo and behold, he's a pariah. The few people who did coddle him did so in a massive way, and did Chris a massive disservice. No amount of Internet vigilantism will correct him, now.

 

[cal2025]

He was doing it very successfully though. I don't see any reason why he can't return to that.

There's no reason he can't except himself. Between burning his house down and assaulting people it really seems like he's just incapable of not fucking up badly given enough time.

 

[nad7155]

This thread is dead.

Anything that needed to be said has.

But, sperg on!

 

[kobebyarlant]

We don't tell him to shove anything up his ass. That's good enough for me.

 

[Marvin]

There's no reason he can't except himself. Between burning his house down and assaulting people it really seems like he's just incapable of not fucking up badly given enough time.

Pretty sure Barb burned their house down. And that made his life that much worse. I can't say he wouldn't have maced that guy if 14BC hadn't burned down, but it sure didn't help things.

 

[cal2025]

Pretty sure Barb burned their house down. And that made his life that much worse. I can't say he wouldn't have maced that guy if 14BC hadn't burned down, but it sure didn't help things.

Genuinely curious, why do you say that? I was under the impression Chris plugged a shitty extension cord into a bathroom wall socket and that's what caused it.

Good luck shaming the shameless. If smelling like shit does not shame him, nothing we can possible say to him or about him could do so any better. Which leads me to the end game: Why do we want to shame chris? He does funny shit on his own and thoroughly shames himself.

If nothing shames him then what's the harm in us shaming him?

Besides, people troll Chris because it's funny and fascinating. Without trolls yeah Chris would still do shit but we wouldn't have nearly the same amount of access to it, plus... Trolls playing with Chris is like giving a pyromaniac a tanker full of gasoline. Yeah they'd burn shit on their own, but when you give them even more to play with..

 

[Morbid Boredom]

Genuinely curious, why do you say that? I was under the impression Chris plugged a shitty extension cord into a bathroom wall socket and that's what caused it.

Barb hoarded all that fuel for the fire.

 

[cal2025]

That's true. But it's fair to point out that "laying low" for Chris means laying very low. It's not as simple as "don't do stupid things in public." He would have to avoid making public social media posts (and probably all posts in general), avoid posting on internet message boards, not meet any new people online. His current "friends" include various levels of trolls, so he would have to be very careful about private communications as well.

My point is that laying low requires him to not do things most people his age do every day without thinking about it.



It's interesting that you think revealing his incontinence problem is "deserved" trolling. I don't have strong opinions about what is "deserved" and what isn't, but it seems that shaming him for an embarassing medical condition is one of the more cruel things we do.

If he was willing to take even the smallest of steps towards alleviating that medical condition then I'd say you have a point, but since he won't I feel the mockery is fair game.

Plus it's a grown man shitting himself and then crying that diapers are for babies, it's pretty damn funny.

 

[AnOminous]

Genuinely curious, why do you say that? I was under the impression Chris plugged a shitty extension cord into a bathroom wall socket and that's what caused it.

The only reason he had to use that extension cord was that every flat surface in the rest of the house was buried under mountains of Barbage. I think Chris may have done the last thing (using the Keurig plugged into that shitty extension cord) that led to the fire, but Barb basically rendered the home uninhabitable long before that.