- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
My only explanation for this would be that a lot of maturation can happen in five years if those five years are from 20 to 25 or so.
Da Big Staw
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
Only interesting thing about that /cow/ pvcc threads is the guys admitting they hated Chris for disliking gays. As one guy put it " we hated a retarded man for not being as progressive as us". They do sort of come off as really hateful SJW in some points.
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Ha, I'm glad there are many who share my opinion about Skyraider's behavior (though, the claim that he's a bored PI is such bullshit), too bad they're too chickenshit to put their name on it.
Either they hated Chris for hating da homos or they hated Chris for the tugboat it seems.
DangerJones
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
It's incredibly hard to look at the events that have transpired in the last 7 or so years and truly justify them in any meaningful, ethical way, if you're basing your ethics off of what our society traditionally considers "moral". But thinking about the trolling of Chris the only ethical philosophy from college that I remember that I could apply to this is the Epicurean view on ethics where all pleasure (which he defined as absence of pain in the body and disturbance in the soul) is inherently good and all pain (being the opposite of pleasure) is inherently bad BUT seeking out pleasure can bring pain. So for us, the internet users, the pleasure is from seeing the reactions of Chris to whatever events may be transpiring in his life at the time but at the same time seeking out this pleasure causes Chris "pain" wether we truly want to accept that or not. So there that hot take. But my hot take on the ethics of it all is that watching Chris is like watching a clown run around on fire, we're conditioned to think that we should stop it and help out but seeing something like that is so unusual and odd that we can't help but to look cause you ain't seeing something like that again.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2014
SkyRaider can't be a Private Investigator -"If you're good at something, never do it for free", and living in Virginia, there's plenty of work to be found in DC.
SonicBoom
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2014
Better people than us have tried. There's no stopping this burning clown.
- Joined
- May 20, 2014
How is that relevant, though? The fact that something would happen without you isn't necessarily a reason to join in yourself.
SonicBoom
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2014
I wasn't saying that we should join in. I was trying to say that you shouldn't feel guilty for not trying to help Chris.
Totally Awesome
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2013
I haven't been on here in months. I can't believe people are still taking Chris Chan seriously. Seriously, I can't believe I'm seeing "trolling" and "ethics" in the same sentence here. This guy is a joke and should be treated as such.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2014
Seriously, I can't believe I'm seeing the words "taking Chris Chan seriously" in the same sentence here.
Anyway, let me explain something to you.
That's your opinion. Other people have different opinions. That's what a debate is, and that's why this thread exists. Perhaps you'd like to share why you have this opinion so the debate can continue?
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PacSol
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
I doubt I will ever say that trolling is objectively good. Harassing someone isn't a good thing to do. However, I do believe that Chris's life wouldn't be all that different without it. He'd still be a retarded, out of shape, unemployed, cross-dressing, pants-shitting cunt who burned down his house with a coffee maker, trolls or no trolls.
I feel that the big difference is that, for all the shit trolls may have put him through, they overall had a net positive effect on his life. They took what would have been a barren life and gave it purpose. They gave him advice that he could have used to help himself (I know that their advice has helped me, and that Chris's fuckups have helped other people). They were there to call him on his bullshit, and I believe would have celebrated his successes had he had any. They were literally the best friends Chris has had since... pretty much ever.
Considering these benefits, I would say that the negatives (the fact that harassment isn't really a nice thing to do) can be safely considered more than compensated for. Trolling wasn't a particularly nice or good thing to do, but considering the alternatives, I would say that I can accept it as the least worst way things could have gone and enjoy the fruits of it with a clean conscience.
I feel that the big difference is that, for all the shit trolls may have put him through, they overall had a net positive effect on his life. They took what would have been a barren life and gave it purpose. They gave him advice that he could have used to help himself (I know that their advice has helped me, and that Chris's fuckups have helped other people). They were there to call him on his bullshit, and I believe would have celebrated his successes had he had any. They were literally the best friends Chris has had since... pretty much ever.
Considering these benefits, I would say that the negatives (the fact that harassment isn't really a nice thing to do) can be safely considered more than compensated for. Trolling wasn't a particularly nice or good thing to do, but considering the alternatives, I would say that I can accept it as the least worst way things could have gone and enjoy the fruits of it with a clean conscience.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2014
PVCC's toxic environment doesn't surprise me. It's just a different Circlejerk from the kind we usually mock.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
Any sufficiently old inner circle eventually turns into a dead forum and a dozen or so geezers who occasionally yell "Get off my lawn you damn kids." And then even that dies off.
Blue Max
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2013
This discussion has moved onto an interesting question: What if there were no trolls?
The answer I draw is that Chris' life is subtly different and the change is actually negative. Blow by Blow:
Chris's trolling began as early as people like Joshua Martinez taking his password and screwing with his website. It's fairly straightforward for Josh just to get rid of Chris without such means.
This leads us to Megan Schroeder. With no ED making its initial appearance, Chris' destruction of the relationship with SheCame4CWC doesn't happen in this way. Even if Chris decided to upload the image onto his website, he still doesn't go on record as it being Megan. Tactical advantage. The same trolls, however, that were aware of him, helped him get his Parappa the Rapper stupidity into the top 10 Parappa Raps. However, it is clear that Chris' relationship with Megan has major issues with boundaries. Megan doesn't want to have sex with Chris; their relationship hadn't even really progressed into touching each other.
I predict Chris goes too far with Megan. The specifics of it may vary, but this could range from simply the relationship coming apart to Chris attempting to rape Megan (Very unlikely, but I could it as barely possible that Megan and Chris go somewhere together and Chris tries this on his "third date"). Contrast this to Chris' relationship with Megan simply being a failure--and its not so clear he's head.
Chris also gets into Sonichu. The first real fan of his, Sonichuizcool, appears on Youtube. Chris doesn't notice or care, indeed, his fanbase is pretty quiet.
Chris gets suspended a year from PVCC and has similar trouble with his attraction sign, again, none of it having anything to do with trolls.
It is at this point that Chris' life begins to take a different direction. No troll sweethearts. However, the world of online dating gets a lot worse than Chris' experiences. Getting fleeced and being ripped off is quite possible. Chris also has the opposite problem--he's a lot worse than his online profile would suggest. This presents an interesting catch-22.
Chris can get ripped off until he gives up on online dating. Conversely, he can also manage to date real women and discover that none of them are impressed by his behavior. Chris probably does find out about escorts earlier and eventually decides to hire one, but having sex didn't really do much for Chris in the long run, and having it earlier in life doesn't really improve himself.
By the point of Bob's death, there are some major changes to Chris' life:
-The Fanbase doesn't exist. Chris has never considered the idea of mailbags, and Sonichu is largely ignored.
-Chris hasn't faced a lot of the harassment he received or been manipulated into shoving things up his ass. He's apparently used the dildo on his ass anyway. He'd have a lot more privacy, there'd be no record of dirty, crapped briefs, recycling, or discussion of his bent and undersized manhood.
-On the other hand, he's miserable at home and learns earlier than he's pretty much alone in the world.
Chris' finances still stuck, and this is basically unchanged. I refuse to believe that things like the Julay Trip or even the Moving Forward scenario has done much besides stop Chris from being Vidya he won't play.
Bob still dies on schedule. Trolls were much more concerned with his health than Chris was--at least until he died.
10/28/11 could be rerolled, but consider that it was actually TRIED TWICE. The previous attempt, in June 2010, ended differently--Chris didn't hit Michael Snyder with his car, but he did indeed trespass into the Game Place. Either or both of these attempts could very easily have turned into a criminal case.
Chris went Tomgirl around this period as well--but no troll ever told Chris to do this. It is possible that this line of reasoning never enters Chris' head with people not suggesting things like wearing his mothers underwear, but Chris seems to enjoy Tomgirlism, however stupid and bad he looks.
The House Fire, started by Barb's junk, still happens. It makes local news coverage, but there is no outreach or aid to Chris. Chris has annoyed others at his church, and his support structure is limited. Still, the aid monies were probably the largest payment Chris has ever received in his life, and medallion sales were his only legitimate job.
Chris freaks out about Sonic's Blue Arms in a terrible video game. And while his facebook group doesn't get a lot of support behind it (if any at all), no one ever told Chris to pepper spray a Gamestop Assistant Manager. It's not the most solid of evidence, but Chris claims to have launched a large scale effort against local businesses to stop selling Sonic Boom--he could have been arrested or confronted in any of them. It very likely would not have Gamestop. It very likely would have happened elsewhere at nearly the same time.
This is one of the odd quirks about Chris in general. The man doesn't do stupid things once, he does them until he catches hell for it. If the evidence of an unconfirmed source is true (I'm not insisting it is), Chris apparently went to WalMart AFTER his arrest to do the same sort of stupidity.
No Trolls, and Chris' life is about the same. It sucks, he's facing time behind bars, and he's done nothing with his life. We're the people who have given him an out he doesn't deserve--the people who buy his medallions and give him an improbable means to make a life for himself. If we weren't here, his life would already be a straightforward failure--with us around, there is still the slim hope that Chris can somehow make it as a well-known eccentric.
I don't condone Bluespike or others causing harm to Chris, but remember that Chris shoved the medallion up his own ass by his own hand. Chris could have refused, and should have refused. Most issues with trolls work at this level--Chris has empowered them at his own discretion. Chris could and did end the trolling against him simply by lying low. Then he decides to commit a felony.
The answer I draw is that Chris' life is subtly different and the change is actually negative. Blow by Blow:
Chris's trolling began as early as people like Joshua Martinez taking his password and screwing with his website. It's fairly straightforward for Josh just to get rid of Chris without such means.
This leads us to Megan Schroeder. With no ED making its initial appearance, Chris' destruction of the relationship with SheCame4CWC doesn't happen in this way. Even if Chris decided to upload the image onto his website, he still doesn't go on record as it being Megan. Tactical advantage. The same trolls, however, that were aware of him, helped him get his Parappa the Rapper stupidity into the top 10 Parappa Raps. However, it is clear that Chris' relationship with Megan has major issues with boundaries. Megan doesn't want to have sex with Chris; their relationship hadn't even really progressed into touching each other.
I predict Chris goes too far with Megan. The specifics of it may vary, but this could range from simply the relationship coming apart to Chris attempting to rape Megan (Very unlikely, but I could it as barely possible that Megan and Chris go somewhere together and Chris tries this on his "third date"). Contrast this to Chris' relationship with Megan simply being a failure--and its not so clear he's head.
Chris also gets into Sonichu. The first real fan of his, Sonichuizcool, appears on Youtube. Chris doesn't notice or care, indeed, his fanbase is pretty quiet.
Chris gets suspended a year from PVCC and has similar trouble with his attraction sign, again, none of it having anything to do with trolls.
It is at this point that Chris' life begins to take a different direction. No troll sweethearts. However, the world of online dating gets a lot worse than Chris' experiences. Getting fleeced and being ripped off is quite possible. Chris also has the opposite problem--he's a lot worse than his online profile would suggest. This presents an interesting catch-22.
Chris can get ripped off until he gives up on online dating. Conversely, he can also manage to date real women and discover that none of them are impressed by his behavior. Chris probably does find out about escorts earlier and eventually decides to hire one, but having sex didn't really do much for Chris in the long run, and having it earlier in life doesn't really improve himself.
By the point of Bob's death, there are some major changes to Chris' life:
-The Fanbase doesn't exist. Chris has never considered the idea of mailbags, and Sonichu is largely ignored.
-Chris hasn't faced a lot of the harassment he received or been manipulated into shoving things up his ass. He's apparently used the dildo on his ass anyway. He'd have a lot more privacy, there'd be no record of dirty, crapped briefs, recycling, or discussion of his bent and undersized manhood.
-On the other hand, he's miserable at home and learns earlier than he's pretty much alone in the world.
Chris' finances still stuck, and this is basically unchanged. I refuse to believe that things like the Julay Trip or even the Moving Forward scenario has done much besides stop Chris from being Vidya he won't play.
Bob still dies on schedule. Trolls were much more concerned with his health than Chris was--at least until he died.
10/28/11 could be rerolled, but consider that it was actually TRIED TWICE. The previous attempt, in June 2010, ended differently--Chris didn't hit Michael Snyder with his car, but he did indeed trespass into the Game Place. Either or both of these attempts could very easily have turned into a criminal case.
Chris went Tomgirl around this period as well--but no troll ever told Chris to do this. It is possible that this line of reasoning never enters Chris' head with people not suggesting things like wearing his mothers underwear, but Chris seems to enjoy Tomgirlism, however stupid and bad he looks.
The House Fire, started by Barb's junk, still happens. It makes local news coverage, but there is no outreach or aid to Chris. Chris has annoyed others at his church, and his support structure is limited. Still, the aid monies were probably the largest payment Chris has ever received in his life, and medallion sales were his only legitimate job.
Chris freaks out about Sonic's Blue Arms in a terrible video game. And while his facebook group doesn't get a lot of support behind it (if any at all), no one ever told Chris to pepper spray a Gamestop Assistant Manager. It's not the most solid of evidence, but Chris claims to have launched a large scale effort against local businesses to stop selling Sonic Boom--he could have been arrested or confronted in any of them. It very likely would not have Gamestop. It very likely would have happened elsewhere at nearly the same time.
This is one of the odd quirks about Chris in general. The man doesn't do stupid things once, he does them until he catches hell for it. If the evidence of an unconfirmed source is true (I'm not insisting it is), Chris apparently went to WalMart AFTER his arrest to do the same sort of stupidity.
No Trolls, and Chris' life is about the same. It sucks, he's facing time behind bars, and he's done nothing with his life. We're the people who have given him an out he doesn't deserve--the people who buy his medallions and give him an improbable means to make a life for himself. If we weren't here, his life would already be a straightforward failure--with us around, there is still the slim hope that Chris can somehow make it as a well-known eccentric.
I don't condone Bluespike or others causing harm to Chris, but remember that Chris shoved the medallion up his own ass by his own hand. Chris could have refused, and should have refused. Most issues with trolls work at this level--Chris has empowered them at his own discretion. Chris could and did end the trolling against him simply by lying low. Then he decides to commit a felony.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2014
Don't get me wrong, this is not meant to be disrespectful, but:
Do you honestly think removing something as majorly influencing like the trolling from Chris life would pan out like this? With barely any changes and somehow worse off than he is now?
That's a lot to buy.
General Juicer
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
Chris's five biggest problems both then and now are his poor finances, trouble with the law, estrangement from friends and family, complete refusal to take on any adult responsibilities, and his poor health. Troll influence on those things have at worst been very, very slightly negative.Stud2Stud said:
Hell, I think it's very plausible that without three years of troll babysitting Chris would've had huge fines or even spent a few months in the hoosegow at this point. Chris got into a lot less trouble with authority figures during the golden age of trolling, after all.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2014
We don't know that. It might very well be without people constantly yanking his chain during important years for his developement he might actually have improved at some point.
I'm not saying that's the way it would have been, I'm merely suggesting it as an alternative possibility.
All I'm saying is:
We have absolutely no knowledge of how Chris would have turned out without trolling and we will never know.
He might very well be in a similar situation minus the paranoia towards gay cyberbully conspiracies (even that's not certain), but using a highly speculative fictious scenario to justify trolling or portray it in a positive light is kinda pointless.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2014
For the most part, the PVCC fueled the most outrageous video antics of OPL. Fair enough - I like the videos, you like the videos.
Where it gets weird is how certain members of that group, not satisfied enough with the videos, decided to make it all about themselves and started turning on one another, first attempting to one up each other and finally trying to create proto-cows from within their ranks.***
The ethics of the trolling thing today, on Kiwi, seems pretty clear (to me at least). Anyone here who chooses to interact with OPL at this point, in any way beyond casual observation, exposes a sort of "all about me" mentality. This does not make for good observation and exploration - it turns this whole thing into a scripted event that eventually devolves into cheerleading and hugboxery. Trolling is and art, remember?
*** On the subject of ethics - I'm not so sure about the efficacy of the recent "Halal" cow tag. I get it but I'm not so sure that we should give them any notice. Just ban them and move the fuck on - they don't offer anything interesting beyond creepy, meta-analysis of what we're doing here.
Yep - I'm drunk again. Shoot me down.
Where it gets weird is how certain members of that group, not satisfied enough with the videos, decided to make it all about themselves and started turning on one another, first attempting to one up each other and finally trying to create proto-cows from within their ranks.***
The ethics of the trolling thing today, on Kiwi, seems pretty clear (to me at least). Anyone here who chooses to interact with OPL at this point, in any way beyond casual observation, exposes a sort of "all about me" mentality. This does not make for good observation and exploration - it turns this whole thing into a scripted event that eventually devolves into cheerleading and hugboxery. Trolling is and art, remember?
*** On the subject of ethics - I'm not so sure about the efficacy of the recent "Halal" cow tag. I get it but I'm not so sure that we should give them any notice. Just ban them and move the fuck on - they don't offer anything interesting beyond creepy, meta-analysis of what we're doing here.
Yep - I'm drunk again. Shoot me down.
General Juicer
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2014
Important years of his development? Chris was 25 years old when he was discovered by trolls. That cow was long let out of the barn. Not to say that people don't change, but did anything in Chris's life from HS graduation unto the ED Drama show even an iota of promise towards him changing for the better? Chris already had a massive ego, already was massively lazy, already was intellectually stunted, already kept getting into trouble with the law, already had problems relating to other people, and already had massive problems with gainful employment and money. Hell, you can't even blame trolls for his massive persecution complex. Just read Sonichu.
What's so speculative about it? Chris got in trouble with the law thanks to his ego and pettiness before discovery by trolls. While he was being trolled, Chris got into less trouble. After organized trolling ended, Chris got into even more trouble. Correlation does not equal causation, but if you don't have correlation then you don't have causation.