Terminator: Dark Fate - Cause we need another one of these apparently.

[frozenrunner]

EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING. YOU: We need more strong women roles. ME: You already HAD them. Not even the mandela effect could make your attention span that regressed.

I had a discussion bordering on a (retarded) argument with a female friend about this recently. Essentially, no matter how many movies I could bring up with stronk female leads, she would minimize the number and say there were "only" that many movies and that there should have been more. She just wanted to validate her belief that men don't want to watch movies with female leads, and she was going to do that no matter how many beloved, classic films with female leads I brought up. I just gave up eventually because she wanted to lecture about muh toxic masculinity, not to have a discussion.

If you want to believe something, you'll find a way for that belief to remain "valid." These people are authoritarians who think they have the moral high ground, so they're running over you regardless.

 

[Judge Holden]

This is the problem when you have people uncritically latch on to and regurgitate with utmost fanaticism whatever they hear a media source say, no matter how blatantly incorrect, farcically silly, or flat out contradictory it is.

Its basically the exact same mentality as obsessive conspiracy theorists who obsessively believe a dozen different completely mutually exclusive conspiracies about all things from flat earth to illuminati to the elders of zion to reptilian aliens to satanic possessions.

Both are defined by an intense psychological need to be part of the "enlightened" community and absolute loyalty and obedience to whatever is deemed the supreme voice of truth/authority...no matter how fucking stupid and horrible it may be.

Thus we have had several years where each movie/show/book/comic with a woman/non white person as a character has been "UTTERLY GROUNDBREAKING AND UNPRECEDENTED!!!!!!" only to be forgotten and replaced a week or two later with the next "UTTERLY GROUNDBREAKING AND UNPRECEDENTED!!!!!!" work and nobody involved in the unpaid shilling process even realises the conflict here.

 

[Jeffrey Epstein]

I had a discussion bordering on a (exceptional) argument with a female friend about this recently. Essentially, no matter how many movies I could bring up with stronk female leads, she would minimize the number and say there were "only" that many movies and that there should have been more. She just wanted to validate her belief that men don't want to watch movies with female leads, and she was going to do that no matter how many beloved, classic films with female leads I brought up. I just gave up eventually because she wanted to lecture about muh toxic masculinity, not to have a discussion.

If you want to believe something, you'll find a way for that belief to remain "valid." These people are authoritarians who think they have the moral high ground, so they're running over you regardless.

Are you kidding? The most crisco infused, jiggling, Christmas light acne, smelly ponytail manbun douches, will screech at length about Sigourney Weaver and Linda Hamilton or Julia Louise Dreyfus in front of their 1,000's of dollars worth of plastic shit on shelves.

It's funny how those frying pan-horse face anti-hot women from a couple decades ago are the MOST talked about intellectually speaking, given how fat slobs mired in their own soured semen, pizza and pepsi bottles literally have hard drives full of slutty porn.

Oops, I forgot Janeway.

 

[SamTheEagle]

I will be honest, the story of a murderous machine slowly learning humanity and taking on a parental role could have resulted in something very good if not touching, it could have been like a Terminator equivalent of the new God Of War series.

Sarah Connor Chronicles shows Terminators infiltrating family roles. A T-800 poses as a woman's dead husband. All she suspects is that he's suffering from depression. A T-1000 kills a couple, who leave behind a young child. The 1000 poses as the kid's mom. The kid's terrified of mommy's new personality until the 1000 starts to learn to mimic maternal behavior.
In both cases, it remains an act on the Terminator's part. Meanwhile, John's reprogrammed bot, Cameron, shows a lot of human behavior, but it's never quite clear if she's simply mimicking humans or exhibiting her own, very human personality.
Damn it, I wish that show had continued.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

I guess one positive I could give Dark Fate is the thematic similarity between Sarah and Carl's characters, all other things aside. One was human who became like a machine given a purpose--hunt Terminators--and the other was a machine who became like a human and found a purpose--being a father figure. Of course the series of events that created and followed this situation are nevertheless unacceptable, by virtue of having just killed the past to then only crassly repeat it, now with a jealous & shortsighted message of female empowerment and liberation from maternity by taking the place of men.

Sorry for muh themes, but I thought that was an interesting parallel in isolation.

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

You know, some people say the alternate ending to T2 is corny.... Well considering what the other options were that shouldve been the theatrical ending

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Corny speculative future LA society aside, it's a common-sense happy ending. Doesn't necessarily promise another action-packed blockbuster sequel, but it make you think about how John and Sarah pulled off a future where Judgment Day stays canceled, at least for their lifetimes. I'm sure they didn't do it alone, but that's decades of stories that could be told. And like Sarah said, that dark future never goes away.

God, I mean John becomes a US senator and raises a family. Definitely way better than getting triple-tapped in the chest at age 11 while a 20-something Mexican chick takes your place because fuck you for existing.

 

[JohnDoe]

You know, some people say the alternate ending to T2 is corny.... Well considering what the other options were that shouldve been the theatrical ending

I think it would be the perfect end to a Judgement Day/Future War movie or trilogy. Really, thats the only place you can go after T2 that makes any sense at all in a narrative sense.
Something that follows the Messianic John Connor at a bit of a distance, through the eyes of ordinary humans that are inspired and led by him. Maybe something sort of like this, with a man of commanding presence and indomitable will leading humanity:

• Movie 1: Opens with Judgement Day, and you follow Pete Protagonist as he is shuffled into the camp for elimination, the same camp where John is. "He taught us to rise up, to rush the wire of the camps..." While Pete has some close contact we mostly experience John through his reactions, and the climatic end of the movie is the destruction of the camp and humanity's hope rekindling as they rise to fight, led by the savior of all mankind - John Connor.
  
  
• Movie 2: Now Pete is a bona fide freedom fighter, and humanity is slowly working to strike back, liberating camps and finding horrible experiments with proto-terminators with rubber skin. They were easy to spot, but they never expected how fast Skynet would improve and unleash the horror that is the 800 series. These cyborg killers are gutting the human camps, eviscerating the human resistance and threatening to smother the flames of hope John has long built. Its desperate, and dirty like Kyle's flashback in T1. The only thing that keeps humanity together and the cohesion in Pete's unit is John's amazing charisma. They have to strike at Skynet's heart, and in the ruins of a Terminator-destroyed human enclave John gives a heartfelt speech about the assault on Skynet's mainframe and terminator production.
  
  
• Movie 3: Humanity is lean, with only the scarred and the lucky left alive. Time is running out to save enough of mankind to carry on, and John himself leads the strike force into the meat grinder that is Skynet's fortress, an industrial nightmare of death. The losses in Pete's squad are enormous as they carve and blast their way through the Terminator labs, the torture facilities, and the mainframe itself. John is wounded, maybe even mortally so in the course of victory. There are no hospitals to save him - but humanity's foe is vanquished at last. Except....there is the time travel experiment. At the very end, John gives his blessing to send one of his soldiers back through time. If the soldier, Kyle, succeeds then there is hope for humanity to recover - through John's birth, and the birth of a new generation seeded by the freedom fighters. Perhaps, there is even hope that Skynet could meet the end planned for John, and the miserable war averted entirely. John dies in self sacrifice with the last gamble of humanity, and we fade to credits.
  
  
• The post credit scene is very much like the deleted final scene of T2. Linda Hamilton is a grandmother, narrating in a park while John and his children play. "We fought so hard to stop a war I worked so hard to raise John to fight. Now, with Judgement day behind us and a bright future ahead, I realize that it might have been enough to raise a strong and good man. In a way, he is the savior of a generation." We close with Sarah Connor embracing her beautiful, healthy grandchildren in the utopia built from the sacrifice of her own son, and the brave men that he led. A hope for a bright future, born from a mother's strength.

 

[RumblyTumbly]

I had a discussion bordering on a (exceptional) argument with a female friend about this recently. Essentially, no matter how many movies I could bring up with stronk female leads, she would minimize the number and say there were "only" that many movies and that there should have been more. She just wanted to validate her belief that men don't want to watch movies with female leads, and she was going to do that no matter how many beloved, classic films with female leads I brought up. I just gave up eventually because she wanted to lecture about muh toxic masculinity, not to have a discussion.

If you want to believe something, you'll find a way for that belief to remain "valid." These people are authoritarians who think they have the moral high ground, so they're running over you regardless.

The best one I had was when I brought up that the horror genre has basically been mostly ruled by women since Jamie Lee Curtis and she responded with "Those aren't real movies".

I get not liking horror movies, but to invalidate and dismiss an entire genre that's been doing the thing they want for decades just seems snobby and willfully ignorant.

 

[Rotollo]

The best one I had was when I brought up that the horror genre has basically been mostly ruled by women since Jamie Lee Curtis and she responded with "Those aren't real movies".

I get not liking horror movies, but to invalidate and dismiss an entire genre that's been doing the thing they want for decades just seems snobby and willfully ignorant.

"Horror isn't real movies, Capeshit and endless sequels to long played out 80's franchisees are"
absolute shit taste on your friend

 

[Orkeosaurus]

I hate how the shitty terminator sequels only ever copy the plot points of T2. At this point the T-800 being bad would be a twist. At least then we wouldn't get sappy fanfic tier shit like the Terminator becoming a family man.

And I'll never understand why all the male terminators besides the T800/1K look like redditors. You'd think they'd at least get some WWE rejects.

 

[LightDragonman1]

One TV Tropes User had this to say about John's death:

Terminator (film franchise)

tvtropes.org

"People were complaining about that in Genisys too. But, like, here's the thing. John isn't the main character. He never was. At least, not until T3 and T4 tried to push him as the new protagonist.

John is a Living MacGuffin. He's not even a character in T1; he exists strictly through reputation. He's the Terminator's motivation for trying to kill Sarah and Kyle Reese's motivation for protecting her. If Sarah survives, her son wins the future war and Skynet is toast. His existence is the ball being fought over by Kyle and the Terminator.
Then T2 comes along and the T-800 is after John. But he's still a Living MacGuffin. He's the victory condition; if the T-1000 kills John, Skynet wins, but if Sarah and the T-800 protect John, humanity wins.

Both films assure us that so long as John lives to see Judgment Day, humanity wins. But T2 prevented Judgment Day, which has been a thorn in the side of every attempt to sequel the films since. John, by all rights, should just be some guy in a post-T2 world.
Even if Skynet does wind up coming into existence years down the road like T3 postulated, the John Connor that led the war in T1 doesn't exist anymore. That future rendition of John who eats machines and shoots lightning from his dick? Sarah killed him alongside Skynet and every other event that would have happened after Judgment Day. Our John Connor isn't Thunder Dick John Connor. He's just Some Guy John Connor now, with nothing to offer the future beyond vague promises of an important destiny from a different future robot war.

That's actually one of the few things there is to like about T3 and T4. They make a plot point around the fact that Thunder Dick John Connor doesn't exist anymore. In stepping into the role of protagonist, Some Guy John Connor has to wrestle with living in his own shadow. He'll never be Thunder Dick. The events that created Thunder Dick are gone forever. Now there's a whole bunch of important people to the war effort that Skynet needs to kill, 'cause humanity's still winning the war but Some Guy John Connor can't just walk into Machine HQ and rub his balls in Skynet's face.

But those films are terrible and no one likes them, so they don't count. For Dark Fate, Cameron's excised them from continuity, which means he's right back where T3 was: John Connor doesn't matter anymore because the events leading to Thunder Dick slapping down Skynet were averted. So he's not a main character AND he's not a Living MacGuffin. In terms of plot relevance, where does that leave him? T3 and T4 tried to make him a main character and those movies sucked, so I guess the only other answer is "expendable for drama".

Thoughts?

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Even if Skynet does wind up coming into existence years down the road like T3 postulated, the John Connor that led the war in T1 doesn't exist anymore. That future rendition of John who eats machines and shoots lightning from his dick? Sarah killed him alongside Skynet and every other event that would have happened after Judgment Day. Our John Connor isn't Thunder Dick John Connor. He's just Some Guy John Connor now, with nothing to offer the future beyond vague promises of an important destiny from a different future robot war.

That's actually one of the few things there is to like about T3 and T4. They make a plot point around the fact that Thunder Dick John Connor doesn't exist anymore. In stepping into the role of protagonist, Some Guy John Connor has to wrestle with living in his own shadow. He'll never be Thunder Dick. The events that created Thunder Dick are gone forever. Now there's a whole bunch of important people to the war effort that Skynet needs to kill, 'cause humanity's still winning the war but Some Guy John Connor can't just walk into Machine HQ and rub his balls in Skynet's face.

But those films are terrible and no one likes them, so they don't count. For Dark Fate, Cameron's excised them from continuity, which means he's right back where T3 was: John Connor doesn't matter anymore because the events leading to Thunder Dick slapping down Skynet were averted. So he's not a main character AND he's not a Living MacGuffin. In terms of plot relevance, where does that leave him? T3 and T4 tried to make him a main character and those movies sucked, so I guess the only other answer is "expendable for drama".

Thoughts?

It makes sense..minus the fact that Terminator 3 doesn't make sense, because Judgement day was never inevitable..T-3 Judgement day occurred because Skynet sent itself back in time and infected the internet, If they felt the need to do Terminator 4..it should have just been about a constantly escalating time war between Humans and Machines, Both have lost all sense of what is supposed to be since Skynet and Humanity have both mucked about the timeline to the point nobody can tell what is real history and what is the effects of The T-69 going back in time and having gay anal sex with Jesus.

 

[Dom Cruise]

The only possible Terminator movie that could have been good to do after 2 was a "prequel" showing the end of the Future War and John's victory over Skynet, which Cameron originally wanted in an extended prologue for T2.

Instead we got Salvation, which was a "future war" movie but wanted to have it's cake and eat it too by having it be a Future War movie but without showing the war being won, not to mention it was a shitty movie in general.

There's always been an obvious end to the franchise, the death of Skynet, instead they just want to keep it going and going and going.

 

[HeyYou]

How's this shit doing at the box office?

 

[Feline Supremacist]

There's always been an obvious end to the franchise, the death of Skynet, instead they just want to keep it going and going and going.

Cameron doesn't have the guts to show John Connor reading Industrial Society and Its Future, because that's the only logical conclusion to this series.

 

[kadoink]

How's this shit doing at the box office?

opens on friday in the US. I expect it'll get like $50-$65 million on opening weekend.

 

[The handsome tard]

You know, some people say the alternate ending to T2 is corny.... Well considering what the other options were that shouldve been the theatrical ending

Corny speculative future LA society aside, it's a common-sense happy ending. Doesn't necessarily promise another action-packed blockbuster sequel, but it make you think about how John and Sarah pulled off a future where Judgment Day stays canceled, at least for their lifetimes. I'm sure they didn't do it alone, but that's decades of stories that could be told. And like Sarah said, that dark future never goes away.

God, I mean John becomes a US senator and raises a family. Definitely way better than getting triple-tapped in the chest at age 11 while a 20-something Mexican chick takes your place because fuck you for existing.

That alternative ending is the canon ending to me, is it great? No, but the fact it leaves no sequel hooks and thus all sequels are high budget fanfictions (minus 4, I guess), makes it definitive in my book. Sarah got to spend a happy life, she has a grand daughter who will not have to fear the future and Johnny isnt a prisioner to a fate he never wanted.

opens on friday in the US. I expect it'll get like $50-$65 million on opening weekend.

You would think they would start with murica and Chynah first given the desinterest that has been building...but now there are videos confirming its shit so that will hurt its chances even more.





I honestly hope this movie kills the terminator franchise on film, they know this trilogy wont happen as much as we because it didnt made enough money and get enough praise to justify it, so the franchise will be put on ice for the decades to come now. If a movie having arnold, linda and cameron couldnt pull off a hit, what could they try next? Seriously, at least with Genesys you could make the argument that people want Linda Hamilton and Cameron back...but now? We have T3, T4 and...
Genesys, a freaking excuse of a MCU copycat trying to kick off a complicated and tedious plot with a trilogy
Dark fate, a freaking excuse of a Swan Song for a franchise that had ended a long time ago that constantly shat on its legacy that also wanted a trilogy, actually believing that the end project would want us begging for more.

I feel old...the bright colorful past long gone, now all is there left is a bunch of cultural stagnation that shits on the past while having nothing better to replace it. All enjoyment? A souless property for disney to own and vault it away from the public for a fucking buck...

"Why are we still here? Just to suffer?"

 

[JohnDoe]

But those films are terrible and no one likes them, so they don't count. For Dark Fate, Cameron's excised them from continuity, which means he's right back where T3 was: John Connor doesn't matter anymore because the events leading to Thunder Dick slapping down Skynet were averted. So he's not a main character AND he's not a Living MacGuffin. In terms of plot relevance, where does that leave him? T3 and T4 tried to make him a main character and those movies sucked, so I guess the only other answer is "expendable for drama".

Thoughts?

I guess if you were making a serious human drama about John Connor coming to terms with there being no apocalypse and the hero role he anticipated filling vanishing, maybe? A good screenwriter could certainly put together a gripping story about Sarah and John slowly transitioning out of their super badass modes, letting down their defenses and trying to build lives. John would have to overcome his fear of a possible AI war if he's going to commit to a relationship, for example, and plan for a future that doesn't involve Skynet. The journey from child messiah to respectable Senator is certainly something you could build and I might watch that movie.

However, John losing his messiah status really only makes sense in a timeline where the future doesn't hold a Judgement Day led by a rogue AI. After all, he's the Messiah in the original and the closed loop timelines, so he's obviously stable in a narrative sense. Killing him out of hand by a Terminator that shouldn't exist (because if it does, then Skynet exists, right? ) is stupid, even more so because now even though he's dead Skynet is still averted - but at the same time, there is another AI that is functionally the same, doing the same thing the same way. Its illogical and fights the narrative of the story we've been presented with so far, and it fails utterly because it is exactly what it looks like to anyone with a brain: a hamfisted, completely blatant and poorly executed attempt to replace John Connor with an illegal alien tranny.

This theory is just a shitty excuse to follow their political leanings and embrace the disgusting anti-male, anti-family, and anti-civilization messages of the film.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

But those films are terrible and no one likes them, so they don't count. For Dark Fate, Cameron's excised them from continuity, which means he's right back where T3 was: John Connor doesn't matter anymore because the events leading to Thunder Dick slapping down Skynet were averted. So he's not a main character AND he's not a Living MacGuffin. In terms of plot relevance, where does that leave him? T3 and T4 tried to make him a main character and those movies sucked, so I guess the only other answer is "expendable for drama".

Thoughts?

Thats clearly what they did

cheaper Drama the better seemed to be their mind

It makes sense..minus the fact that Terminator 3 doesn't make sense, because Judgement day was never inevitable..T-3 Judgement day occurred because Skynet sent itself back in time and infected the internet, If they felt the need to do Terminator 4..it should have just been about a constantly escalating time war between Humans and Machines, Both have lost all sense of what is supposed to be since Skynet and Humanity have both mucked about the timeline to the point nobody can tell what is real history and what is the effects of The T-69 going back in time and having gay anal sex with Jesus.

So Sarah Conner Chronicles