Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Manwithn0n0men]

The prose is utterly workmanlike, serviceable for gaming fiction, maybe. The dialogue is stilted and robotic, more intent on conveying information (franchise information, not story information) than character. But here's what sticks out to me as laughable: why is Finn discussing this intensely private moment with Rose which nobody except maybe a couple of First Order pilots ever saw? Why, to tell the reader that Finn is single, ladies! (And gays!)

Also, how does a black man blush, I ask ya.

Also: Finn has recently been a brain washed former child soldier of a repressive authoritarian regime. Yeah he is learning not to be but that doesnt happen right away. This light Slice of Life banter undermines Finn's character. Why cant a black man have actual character development in these movies

makes you think

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Also: Finn has recently been a brain washed former child soldier of a repressive authoritarian regime. Yeah he is learning not to be but that doesnt happen right away. This light Slice of Life banter undermines Finn's character. Why cant a black man have actual character development in these movies

makes you think

He'd first have to be perceived as a character and not just an author's vessel to move the plot along.
None of the people in the new trilogy are actually people. They are poached tidbits of former characters, strung along a horribly written plot and all they ever do is jab a stick at the plot, so it moves another inch forward.

 

[Mola Ram]

He'd first have to be perceived as a character and not just an author's vessel to move the plot along.
None of the people in the new trilogy are actualy people. They are poached tidbits of former characters, strung along a horribly written plot and all they ever do is jab a stick at the plot, so it moves another inch forward.

Ya Boi Zack made an excellent argument in a recent video: Rey is not a Mary Sue, because she isn't a character at all. She's merely a blank slate for the audience to imagine themselves inhabiting (mostly women members of the audience; Zack's theory is that she's intended to ape the way the majority of female children play with toys, projecting themselves onto the toy rather than pretending to be the character). This, he posits, is why Rey's defenders absolutely lose their shit when the character is criticized. It's a pretty interesting video.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

He'd first have to be perceived as a character and not just an author's vessel to move the plot along.
None of the people in the new trilogy are actualy people. They are poached tidbits of former characters, strung along a horribly written plot and all they ever do is jab a stick at the plot, so it moves another inch forward.

Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, Hux, Holdo, Phasma, and even Rose could have all been good characters

TR-8-Tor and Rose's sister are more characters in limited scenes then any of the above

Ya Boi Zack made an excellent argument in a recent video: Rey is not a Mary Sue, because she isn't a character at all. She's merely a blank slate for the audience to imagine themselves inhabiting (mostly women members of the audience; Zack's theory is that she's intended to ape the way the majority of female children play with toys, projecting themselves onto the toy rather than pretending to be the character). This, he posits, is why Rey's defenders absolutely lose their shit when the character is criticized. It's a pretty interesting video.

This is the Post Harry Potter MO for YA characters

 

[Antipathy]

Ya Boi Zack made an excellent argument in a recent video: Rey is not a Mary Sue, because she isn't a character at all. She's merely a blank slate for the audience to imagine themselves inhabiting (mostly women members of the audience; Zack's theory is that she's intended to ape the way the majority of female children play with toys, projecting themselves onto the toy rather than pretending to be the character). This, he posits, is why Rey's defenders absolutely lose their shit when the character is criticized. It's a pretty interesting video.

A character can be both a Mary Sue and a blank slate, however. Being one is not mutually exclusive from being another, in fact many Mary Sues also lack meaningful personality. See my Twilight comparison once more. Rey is a blank slate, and I've said this before. She's also a Mary Sue, and a ripoff of Luke.

I think on page 300 or so I said to superimpose a hole over her in scene, and from there things line up. People talk about her, but very rarely to her. She doesn't say anything more than lines of exposition that the audience basically already knows. She doesn't demonstrate agency. So, yes, she's a blank slate. But she also effortlessly and instantly overcomes all opposition, is instantly loved and trusted, and has no flaws or weaknesses whatsoever. This makes her a Mary Sue.

The only flaw in Zack's argument is the implicit assumption, (if I am reading your brief correctly), that a character cannot be both a Mary Sue and a blank slate/audience surrogate. It's impossible to contest the point that she's a blank slate, but arguing that it makes her not a Mary Sue is like saying that an object cannot be both tall and red. The two criteria are independent of one another.

 

[Mola Ram]

The only flaw in Zack's argument is the implicit assumption, (if I am reading your brief correctly), that a character cannot be both a Mary Sue and a blank slate/audience surrogate. It's impossible to contest the point that she's a blank slate, but arguing that it makes her not a Mary Sue is like saying that an object cannot be both tall and red. The two criteria are independent of one another.

That's basically his point, but I see what you're saying. But I wonder if the Mary Sue qualities are just a natural result of her being a blank slate -- "Hey, look, Rey is you! Look how amazing and wonderful you are! Look at all these fun adventures you're having! Look at how you beat up the bad guy and are the bestest Jedi ever!" Which, if correct, means Disney Star Wars occupies the same artistic tier as those shitty birthday videos for little kids where you'd stick their face over a cowboy or an astronaut or something. Sigh.

 

[Raging Capybara]

Well, that explains why I hate Rey so fucking much: I hate myself, I'm just projecting as Disney intended.

 

[Antipathy]

Well, that explains why I hate Rey so fucking much: I hate myself, I'm just projecting as Disney intended.

Or you can just see the hole, and despise the hole. It's not a person, it's not real. People talk about the hole. People worship the hole. The hole comes in and saves the day. The hole gets the praise, the hole gets the treasure. It's just a big fucking hole on the screen and, once you pull away any projection, the ugly truth is revealed.

People don't like things that are incomplete. People want a sense of closure, this is a known psychological fact. Cut your favorite song off halfway, you want to hear it end, not just cut out. Disney Wars fundamentally has a giant hole in the middle of it, right in the foundation, and the entire structure caves in from this point.

Rey is a hole. A void, an absence, a lack of substance, right in the middle of the scene. That's why she's terrible. She's also a Mary Sue, as this hole just gains things randomly.

 

[Tour of Italy]

A character can be both a Mary Sue and a blank slate, however. Being one is not mutually exclusive from being another, in fact many Mary Sues also lack meaningful personality. See my Twilight comparison once more. Rey is a blank slate, and I've said this before. She's also a Mary Sue, and a ripoff of Luke.

I think on page 300 or so I said to superimpose a hole over her in scene, and from there things line up. People talk about her, but very rarely to her. She doesn't say anything more than lines of exposition that the audience basically already knows. She doesn't demonstrate agency. So, yes, she's a blank slate. But she also effortlessly and instantly overcomes all opposition, is instantly loved and trusted, and has no flaws or weaknesses whatsoever. This makes her a Mary Sue.

The only flaw in Zack's argument is the implicit assumption, (if I am reading your brief correctly), that a character cannot be both a Mary Sue and a blank slate/audience surrogate. It's impossible to contest the point that she's a blank slate, but arguing that it makes her not a Mary Sue is like saying that an object cannot be both tall and red. The two criteria are independent of one another.

She’s an audience surrogate written by people who can’t connect to their audience at all.

Her first act was strong, since it showed her honestly shitty day to day life. It had an emotional core even if it was written by Silicon Valley shitheads who have a naive understanding of what poverty is like.

Things went off the rails when nothing was really required of her to grow and adapt to. They set up this idea that she was self-sufficient, but isolated, then didn’t really do anything with it other than show that she actually didn’t really need anyone’s help in the end.

By ANH’s second act Luke and Han have fucked up to the point where they’re cornered and outgunned. Rey gets captured by TFA’s second act then almost immediately escapes on her own, effortlessly.

I guess she’s a fitting surrogate for the modern “you can do anything you believe in” crowd, but Rey and the new series as a whole lack both the blue-collar relatability of the OT and also the peaks and troughs of plot conflict fundamental to engaging writing in general.

 

[Godzilla@1989]

Well, that explains why I hate Rey so fucking much: I hate myself, I'm just projecting as Disney intended.

This is what I asked a while ago about who was actually the main protagonist of TFA. It’s not Rey since she’s so fucking perfect without trial it’s frustrating to care for her, plus she’s fucking boring as fuck.

Also, @GeneralFriendliness I heard Disney’s earnings report is this week, wonder how hard Iger is going to get grilled.

 

[Antipathy]

I like the way Rey is almost shoved into the background.


These are the same people, that shun critics of TLJ as haters, toxic and much worse.
These are the same people, that endlessly bitch about Kelly Marie Tran being bullied off of social media.

Hypocrites, the lot of them.



Well, shame on you for thinking anyone with the least bit of competence was writing these movies.


This is just a short snippit of text, but neither "Poe" nor "Finn" seem to talk and behave like their movie counterparts at all.

Also:

Just remember that Nupatine will be a JJ antagonist: he'll show up for 5 minutes, waffle on about bullshit, and then get killed.
I'm afraid that there won't be any Palpatine memes in this movie. Or any good memes at all. We got TR8R from JJ, and that's fucking it.

 

[Owen Grady]

Do you guys think we would ever need a Disney thread in general for cows? Because there's a lot to choose from, from Iger and his idiotic decisions, to their shill websites like OhMyDisney and DVDIzzy, and their braindead man/womanchild fans who are the definition of pathetic (see Reylos and Jenny Nicholson)...

For a while I’ve been wondering. If it wouldn’t be a bad idea to make this a Community Watch thread. That’s basically what it is now.

 

[Jaimas]

There's long been a rumor going around that the reason that Disney Wars has been so hell-bent on eviscerating everything remaining in the canon is to stop having to pay George Lucas royalties for the last vestiges of the old series. I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that this kind of shit is exactly keeping with what Disney does now: dismantle everything from its former glory to try to ride on it without earning it, and going out of its way to prevent anyone from going back to what doesn't suck.

Christ, that's depressing.

 

[HeyYou]

This thread is more chill in multimedia, and we talk about things besides the drama. I'd say no.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

There's long been a rumor going around that the reason that Disney Wars has been so hell-bent on eviscerating everything remaining in the canon is to stop having to pay George Lucas royalties for the last vestiges of the old series. I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that this kind of shit is exactly keeping with what Disney does now: dismantle everything from its former glory to try to ride on it without earning it, and going out of its way to prevent anyone from going back to what doesn't suck.

Christ, that's depressing.

That and Iger cucked himself to the will of Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson and the College Ethics Board aka Disney-Lucasfilm Story Group, so even if he gave two fucks enough to prevent that from happening it'd still be done out of spite towards George Lucas himself.

 

[Antipathy]

Rise of Skywalker Rumor | Disney Systematically Destroying Star Wars

New Rise of Skywalker rumors seem to indicate that this film will complete what Disney began with The Force Awakens: the systematic destruction of Star Wars....

www.youtube.com

The onslaught from the critics is ramping up. Things are going to get heated!

 

[King Kobra]

Fun times ahead guys,especially if Respawn botch Fallen Order (they are plying too safe to happen but still) and leaks starts to be confirmed true

Ready the popcorn

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Interesting to see that Mark still promotes IX, but man... he's such a charismatic guy. If there was just one famous Hollywood person that I was allowed to meet, I guess it would be him. I'm not even that big of a Star Wars fan, but Mark Hamill is just such a likeable, positive guy.

Or you can just see the hole, and despise the hole. It's not a person, it's not real. People talk about the hole. People worship the hole. The hole comes in and saves the day. The hole gets the praise, the hole gets the treasure. It's just a big fucking hole on the screen and, once you pull away any projection, the ugly truth is revealed.

People don't like things that are incomplete. People want a sense of closure, this is a known psychological fact. Cut your favorite song off halfway, you want to hear it end, not just cut out. Disney Wars fundamentally has a giant hole in the middle of it, right in the foundation, and the entire structure caves in from this point.

Rey is a hole. A void, an absence, a lack of substance, right in the middle of the scene. That's why she's terrible. She's also a Mary Sue, as this hole just gains things randomly.

My inner cynic tells me that holes might have played an important role in how Daisy Ridley started out in acting, tbh.

She’s an audience surrogate written by people who can’t connect to their audience at all.

Her first act was strong, since it showed her honestly shitty day to day life. It had an emotional core even if it was written by Silicon Valley shitheads who have a naive understanding of what poverty is like.

Things went off the rails when nothing was really required of her to grow and adapt to. They set up this idea that she was self-sufficient, but isolated, then didn’t really do anything with it other than show that she actually didn’t really need anyone’s help in the end.

By ANH’s second act Luke and Han have fucked up to the point where they’re cornered and outgunned. Rey gets captured by TFA’s second act then almost immediately escapes on her own, effortlessly.

I guess she’s a fitting surrogate for the modern “you can do anything you believe in” crowd, but Rey and the new series as a whole lack both the blue-collar relatability of the OT and also the peaks and troughs of plot conflict fundamental to engaging writing in general.

Rey started out very interesting and if they had kept up that level of quality, the trilogy could have been good. Rey's boring day-to-day life was interesting and made the whole thing feel like it expanded the universe. They could have done some things better (a few things about the scene where Kylo and his troups tear up the village for instance), but that first part was pretty neat. It was also when Finn was still a promising character and BB-8's hijinks were funny and enjoyable. The movie fell apart the moment Rey and Finn started the Millenium Falcon.
Then, we got Rey the Ace pilot and the escalation of bullshit when Han stepped into the Falcon.

Just remember that Nupatine will be a JJ antagonist: he'll show up for 5 minutes, waffle on about bullshit, and then get killed.
I'm afraid that there won't be any Palpatine memes in this movie. Or any good memes at all. We got TR8R from JJ, and that's fucking it.

Ahem.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

There's long been a rumor going around that the reason that Disney Wars has been so hell-bent on eviscerating everything remaining in the canon is to stop having to pay George Lucas royalties for the last vestiges of the old series. I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that this kind of shit is exactly keeping with what Disney does now: dismantle everything from its former glory to try to ride on it without earning it, and going out of its way to prevent anyone from going back to what doesn't suck.

Christ, that's depressing.

They only have to 25% alter it from George

 

[Antipathy]

There's long been a rumor going around that the reason that Disney Wars has been so hell-bent on eviscerating everything remaining in the canon is to stop having to pay George Lucas royalties for the last vestiges of the old series. I don't know if I believe that, but I do know that this kind of shit is exactly keeping with what Disney does now: dismantle everything from its former glory to try to ride on it without earning it, and going out of its way to prevent anyone from going back to what doesn't suck.

Christ, that's depressing.

I think that Occam's Razor is a technique to apply here:
Which is more likely, that Disney meticulously made a contract with royalties with Lucas, then turned around and killed his characters?
Or that these characters are killed to not overshadow their donut steels?