[Dec 15 2019] Foreclosure Saga - http://civilinquiry.jud.ct.gov/CaseDetail/PublicCaseDetail.aspx?DocketNo=FBTCV196091825S

[kebab4you]

Is this the series finale?

Nha, they will just make spin-off shows once they do wrap up the current epic.

 

[instythot]

Well he already tried a short sale but the confusing thing is the calculations about the short sale back in 2016-2017 are really close if not the same numbers people are using now. How has he not put even a scratch on this mortgage in years? Has he been playing games with the bank since he moved and they got fed up with his bullshit and sold it off to someone else?

Following Phil has made me pessimistic about any outcome to a financial "crisis" he is in so I have no expectations this will matter. Would like to see some kind of filing on his income, but probably have to wait for the bankruptcy saga for that one.

Yes. He has been playing games with the bank since he moved. The bank probably offloaded all of their most annoying accounts to a slightly less rich bank in a bundle, as has been playing out since a few years before the housing crash

If he actually secures a representative, he will have a competent face and delivery for the sob story of "over five years of coordinated financial terrorism by detractors" who can try to brush away YouTubed statements of intent as "my client routinely embellishes and fabricates as part of the performance for his audience" as opposed to a fat unwashed man in a video game shirt who is obviously lying to the bank's faces. Securing a face and voice other than his own to advocate for his interests would be the single wisest thing Phil could do at this point

 

[der rademacher]

Given it's food made by the Japanese you're supposed to eat it with chopsticks and then yes, drink the broth. That's how ramen is eaten in Japan. I suppose a fork would work, but good luck getting long curly noodles to work with a spoon. It shouldn't come as a surprise that two long sticks are pretty good at wrapping up and delivering noodles to a food hole.

That's why we have cupanoodles (sort of) with noodles that fit on a spoon. German engineering technics for the win. "More like German faggotry for the win." Why you little...

Here is a helpful guide for all you shitting up the thread with ramen noodle discussions. You pick up the bowl, drink the broth out of the bowl and slurp up the noodles noisily.
Let's move on.

As long as the noodles in questions can be compared to Dave's arms, they're fair game in my book.

Is this the series finale?

Only a change in production. The new producers are promising to take us on a hell of a ride.

 

[tzgnilki]

Well he already tried a short sale but the confusing thing is the calculations about the short sale back in 2016-2017 are really close if not the same numbers people are using now. How has he not put even a scratch on this mortgage in years? Has he been playing games with the bank since he moved and they got fed up with his bullshit and sold it off to someone else?

Following Phil has made me pessimistic about any outcome to a financial "crisis" he is in so I have no expectations this will matter. Would like to see some kind of filing on his income, but probably have to wait for the bankruptcy saga for that one.

one thing I know about debt, is if you make the minimum payments, your debt will be stagnant

dave is not only paying the minimum, but was also choosing to skip payments, and was probably "catching up" by making another minimum payment

 

[Nixxit]

Has he been playing games with the bank since he moved and they got fed up with his bullshit and sold it off to someone else?

I couldn't tell you who said that or how sourced the opinion/statement (I can't recall which it was) was, but someone did say something along those lines, that for years he only paid the minimum amount every now and then (Read: Less than he should have) to avoid foreclosure, which not only made it so he didn't decrease the amount owed all that much, but also racked "fines" and such.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

Of course they wont, why would they think he would start paying after not paying for months?

Particularly when he publicly said he was not going to pay (and claimed that he told the company as much). Whatever motivation the bank may have had to do anything but foreclose ASAP disappeared there.

Still, once they take the condo there's reason to try and come to an agreement. They have a secured debt on his condo but they don't have one on his house (another company does, however). There's a reason banks use secured loans, and it's so they can actually take the property if the debtor defaults. If anyone think the condo-financing bank can just swoop in and foreclose on the house and leave him snorting in the streets, it's not that easy.

They can try to go after his income but if he is smart about it he can use the money as soon as it comes in and make it difficult, assuming he doesn't have much in the way of liquid assets. I know, "Phil" and "smart" don't go together but along the lines of Chris's wheelin' and dealin'.

The bank can still do all sorts of things but it may not be worth the effort at some point. They probably bought the debt at a steep discount anyway.

 

[troon patrol]

HE PAYED DOWN 30k OF THE PRINCIPAL AFTER 8 YEARS?! What an asshole, he probably bought right before the housing bubble hit his area if he is upside down that much on a 100K condo.

Anyone know if the HOA is suing him? Typically people who screw the mortage screw the HOA.

 

[Synth]

The bank can still do all sorts of things but it may not be worth the effort at some point. They probably bought the debt at a steep discount anyway.

See, this is the most (and only) interesting part of all of this to me. Different banks will have different levels of money they can throw at problems like this to try and win out long-term, but if the first lender already gave a loan for $130k for him to purchase the property, it seems like it wouldn't be prudent to sell it off to another bank for 10-20%. We know he paid off ~$20k on the condo mortgage, so if they sold the debt for 20% of what's still owed (another $20k), we're up to like $40k out of $130k. That seems like a lot of fucking money to just throw away to be rid of a problem if another lender is just going to go after him for it anyway.

So I'm kind of skeptical about the first lender selling it at a huge discount. A marginal loss, sure, but not that large. I've never worked for a bank, so I can't speak much on how that works, but it just seems pointless.

And the same thing applies in reverse, of course. I don't see a lender buying the debt without a lot of research on the borrower and making sure they can get what they want, no matter how long it takes. Obviously, it's much more appealing if you're buying the debt at dirt cheap prices, but that just makes the first lender look incompetent.

 

[James Smith]

They can't go to twitch, paypal, etc because he's not an employee, he's a contractor. Not even the government can take money from one business that is going to another business - because there is overhead with a business and all of that is taken out of the amount used to gauge how much he has to pay.

You can garnish non-wage payments one payment at a time. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/creditors-garnish-wages-self-employed.html

Still, once they take the condo there's reason to try and come to an agreement. They have a secured debt on his condo but they don't have one on his house (another company does, however). There's a reason banks use secured loans, and it's so they can actually take the property if the debtor defaults. If anyone think the condo-financing bank can just swoop in and foreclose on the house and leave him snorting in the streets, it's not that easy.

They can force him to sell the condo in Washington. The lender who first gave DSP money for the WA purchase will get just first dibs on the sale proceeds. It's not magically protected against compelled sale.

 

[tzgnilki]

See, this is the most (and only) interesting part of all of this to me. Different banks will have different levels of money they can throw at problems like this to try and win out long-term, but if the first lender already gave a loan for $130k for him to purchase the property, it seems like it wouldn't be prudent to sell it off to another bank for 10-20%. We know he paid off ~$20k on the condo mortgage, so if they sold the debt for 20% of what's still owed (another $20k), we're up to like $40k out of $130k. That seems like a lot of fucking money to just throw away to be rid of a problem if another lender is just going to go after him for it anyway.

So I'm kind of skeptical about the first lender selling it at a huge discount. A marginal loss, sure, but not that large. I've never worked for a bank, so I can't speak much on how that works, but it just seems pointless.

And the same thing applies in reverse, of course. I don't see a lender buying the debt without a lot of research on the borrower and making sure they can get what they want, no matter how long it takes. Obviously, it's much more appealing if you're buying the debt at dirt cheap prices, but that just makes the first lender look incompetent.

I think the criteria for purchasing debt would be based on some autistic risk formula and ultimately whether or not there is a high percentage chance of winning in court

"The cost to purchase your debt is usually between $0.04 and $0.14 for every dollar. So, if you have $10,000 in debt and the debt buyer purchases it for ten cents on the dollar, they pay $1,000 to buy your debt. You still owe the $10,000, but you would pay this money to the debt buyer instead of your creditor."

 

[actually]

@SoapQueen1, a hypothetical for you. IF Phil has somehow gotten that refinance on the WA condo that we've speculated on before, would this action on the CT condo have any effect? In other words, if the refinance has just been finished, could the WA condo mortgage holder go "wait a fucking minute, we were lied to" and make changes?

I don't think this has happened, but I'm just curious how that would play out.

 

[Begathon2020]

You can garnish non-wage payments one payment at a time. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/creditors-garnish-wages-self-employed.html


They can force him to sell the condo in Washington. The lender who first gave DSP money for the WA purchase will get just first dibs on the sale proceeds. It's not magically protected against compelled sale.

There is a saying that it is one thing to win a lawsuit, and another to collect on it. As a matter of fact one might assume he purposefully didn't pay his taxes, because (as someone mentioned before) the government always gets first dibs on collecting. Sort of like getting a title loan on a vehicle, you basically can't take it to pay a debt because someone is already ahead of you.

Now if he gets sued and doesn't show up then a judgment is entered; it is possible the creditor could file for a debtor examination. If he fails to attend that a bench warrant can be issued.

WA state allows for a 125k homestead exemption, so his WA house is safe. Assuming soulmaid files jointly to "clear debts from her previous life" that would double all of the exemptions except the homestead. The more debt he accrues the better for him. A family of two below $78,823.00 automatically passes the means test. With double the exemption he can exempt 20k worth of 'tools'. He plays videogames for a living so his ps4 etc are 'tools'.

All he is going to do is wait until he gets sued, not show up, creditor gets default judgment. He files bankruptcy the next day. Or he just shifts everything into his retirement accounts that are protected up to 1.3million. This strikes me as much to do about nothing. He will just string along the paypigs but in the end lose nothing.

 

[James Smith]

In other words, if the refinance has just been finished, could the WA condo mortgage holder go "wait a fucking minute, we were lied to" and make changes?

Eh maybe. A party to a contract always has the option to go to court and dispute the validity of the contract if they find out something that led them to sign on the dotted line was materially misrepresented. That doesn't mean they'll win or lose, it just means they get to have a court evaluate whether or not the contract should be voided. It's possible that the refinance or home equity loan, whichever it was, had some provision allowing them to back out of the agreement without needing to go to court, who knows.

All he is going to do is wait until he gets sued, not show up, creditor gets default judgment. He files bankruptcy the next day. Or he just shifts everything into his retirement accounts that are protected up to 1.3million. This strikes me as much to do about nothing. He will just string along the paypigs but in the end lose nothing.

That wouldn't work. That would be a fraudulent conveyance. For example, you can't lose a lawsuit then give all your money to charity to spite the plaintiff.

 

[Begathon2020]

That wouldn't work. That would be a fraudulent conveyance. For example, you can't lose a lawsuit then give all your money to charity to spite the plaintiff.

Right but couldn't he just have been planning for this? It does make sense that you can't just liquidate or move money around after you've already lost a court case saying you owe this person X. This guy does his schedule A YEAR in advance. I feel like he is well prepared for this. Any lien on his WA house (I believe) can get removed in a chp7. His car (or two?) are financed and creditors usually don't go after cars anyway. His other real property is exempt 125k. They aren't going to come take his furniture unless it was inheried from George Washington.

Actually after thinking more about it he would do a chapter 13 so he can continue to pay on his cars. So he pays on his various debts for 5 years and then the rest is forgiven. In a chapter 7 you can't continue to pay some debts but not others. In a chapter 13 you can.

 

[Apteryx Owenii]

You can garnish non-wage payments one payment at a time. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/creditors-garnish-wages-self-employed.html


They can force him to sell the condo in Washington. The lender who first gave DSP money for the WA purchase will get just first dibs on the sale proceeds. It's not magically protected against compelled sale.

It's not magically protected but it's also not secured. It takes more effort, time and money in legal proceedings to get to that point AND the first lender will get most, if not all, of the proceeds depending on how much of the loan is paid off (probably not much) and what it sells for (maybe not even market value).

The question for a loanholder is not "what can we do to get this money" it's "how much will we have to spend to get this money." It might make no sense to try and take the other house, particularly if they can come to an agreement where they can get paid something monthly. Now whether Phil would actually agree to that or decide to play chicken with them is another matter.

 

[Begathon2020]

The question for a loanholder is not "what can we do to get this money" it's "how much will we have to spend to get this money."

Considering the fact that his paypigs can't even get him to answer what his favorite movie is makes me think getting money from dsp is going to be a very long and expensive process. Wouldn't surprise me if his payment accounts like paypal etc are registered in a state with more favorable garnishment laws. In Texas you can't garnish unless you are the government.

 

[James Smith]

Right but couldn't he just have been planning for this? It does make sense that you can't just liquidate or move money around after you've already lost a court case saying you owe this person X. This guy does his schedule A YEAR in advance. I feel like he is well prepared for this.

A conveyance is fraudulent if it appears you offloaded something knowing someone else was entitled to it. If you owe a fuck ton of money to someone and transfer everything you own to a retirement plan a year before declaring bankruptcy that transfer is probably going to get reversed by the courts.

It's not magically protected but it's also not secured. It takes more effort, time and money in legal proceedings to get to that point AND the first lender will get most, if not all, of the proceeds depending on how much of the loan is paid off (probably not much) and what it sells for (maybe not even market value).

The question for a loanholder is not "what can we do to get this money" it's "how much will we have to spend to get this money." It might make no sense to try and take the other house, particularly if they can come to an agreement where they can get paid something monthly. Now whether Phil would actually agree to that or decide to play chicken with them is another matter.

To your first paragraph the condo in WA is worth enough to pay its mortgage, the CT condo's mortgage, and still have about $50-75K left over. There's plenty of money to go around. To your second paragraph why would they agree to let him pay monthly against the deficiency when he already reneged on an agreement to pay monthly against the principal?

• Let's assume he owed $100K as of the lawsuit filing and previously agreed to pay $600 per month for a 30 year period ending 20 years from now.
• Let's assume it is auctioned off and he owes a deficiency of $50K.
• He was already unwilling to pay $600 per month, so he's unlikely to agree to a payment that high.
• This is now an very large unsecured (or undersecured) loan, so let's assume a minimum interest rate of 15%.

The fastest DSP could pay off this loan at 15% interest with monthly payments less than $600 would be over 50 years (I can't find a calculator that will exceed 50 years). If they compel sale of that condo and he declares bankruptcy under Chapter 13 they'll probably get it in 5 years. If they compel sale of that condo and for some ungodly reason he doesn't declare bankruptcy they'll get it in like 1 year. 15% interest is generous. He'd probably be paying a lot more.

 

[Forbidden Math]

All he is going to do is wait until he gets sued, not show up, creditor gets default judgment. He files bankruptcy the next day. Or he just shifts everything into his retirement accounts that are protected up to 1.3million. This strikes me as much to do about nothing. He will just string along the paypigs but in the end lose nothing.

Like I said a couple of pages ago: you don't just get to declare bankruptcy without proving it. You even said it yourself, FILE for bankruptcy. No one is going to see Phil as bankrupt when he's living in that house making as much as he does every year. Your debts don't just magically vanish.

 

[Mr._Blonde]

He's being foreclosure? The guy who has the luck of the fucking drunk Irish? His luck might finally run out?

There was a reason why I had a smile on my face and a rock hard boner all of the sudden.

 

[Begathon2020]

Like I said a couple of pages ago: you don't just get to declare bankruptcy without proving it. You even said it yourself, FILE for bankruptcy. No one is going to see Phil as bankrupt when he's living in that house making as much as he does every year. Your debts don't just magically vanish.

All he has to do is meet the means test for his area and the median income. But lets just say he does NOT file chapter 7 or 13. You can not force him to pay anything or sell anything to pay a debt. He knows this. The worst thing that will probably happen is the creditor wins in court and puts another lien on his WA house. The creditor doesn't get paid until DSP sells the house. Attaching his various bank accounts require court order but that still doesn't tell you where to attach. The debtors examination forces him under oath to explain what accounts he has and where they are located.

IF they garnish his wages they can only take 25% of his 'disposable income'. To him that might be far better than having a condo he can never pay off.

So that is why I DO hope he gets summoned to a CT court for a debtor's examination. You can't go to jail for not paying your debts but you can if you ignore a court order to appear and answer questions. I'd be great if he gets his ass handed to him but I find it unlikely.

Under federal law, transactions falling within the guidelines are presumptively fraudulent and aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy. The new threshold amounts for bankruptcy cases filed on or after April 1, 2019, are as follows:

• Consumer debts owed to a single creditor. The $675 aggregate amount for luxury goods or services incurred by an individual debtor on or within 90 days before filing for bankruptcy increases to $725. (11 U.S.C. § 523(a)(2)(C)(i)(l).)

He does his schedule a freakin year in advance. They aren't going to go back months and years to figure out where money went. DSP isn't John Gotti. You'd have to prove intent, and for a guy who doesn't even leave the house sounds impossible.