Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Gehenna]

You know, I am starting to think that J.J saying "Ruin Johnson didn't actually ruin my plans, guys" was him lying as to not give him the satisfaction of shitting his ideas.

Still, that wasn't an excuse for making ROS so bad, as it was still possible to save ROS. This is how I would've fixed it:

If the rumors are true, George's idea of using the son of Mortis would have been great, and it would've fixed Ruin Johnson's trash. You could explain that it's was the sons' refusal to accept defeat by the chosen one, which was forcing the galaxy to repeat itself: A cycle of sith emperors rising after being defeated by Jedi. Which would explain the member-berries for plot reasons: The galaxy was literally repeating itself on purpose.

Luke cut himself off the force because the son was trying to corrupt him directly (which would explain him trying to kill Kylo), to become just like his father. I would also ignore Luke's death. We saw him disappearing, not bleeding so that would've been easy to fix. Maybe saying that he is in some spiritual realm or something.

Snoke and Kylo ren were just pawns of the son trying to replace Vader and Palatine.

But Kylo Ren managed to break the cycle by killing Snoke, so to keep the cycle going the son of Mortis decides to keep the cycle going by making him his replacement of Snoke.

Then the movie would've been about Rey training with Luke and then trying to stop the First Order only to realize that she was just playing into the son's game. Kylo was just the son's pawn. The climax would be her facing the true villain: the son of Mortis, who was too arrogant to consider her a treat because she was a "nobody". The son would try to tempt her by giving her what she wanted a family and a sense of purpose. But the only way to win is to give up everything she ever wanted(a family; a sense of purpose) to save the day and breaking the cycle, aka embracing the light side of the force. Her OPness could be explained by the daughter subtly aiding her as her champion.

Luke could even end up adopting her as her daughter or something, so becoming a skywalker would feel earned.

If Disney really wanted Palpatine for marketing, he could've just been an illusion trying to corrupt Rey or something.

But J.J had to go with member berries and bringing back Palpapatine because he is a hack and he is only good at rehashing someone else's ideas.

.... Don't make me defend Abrams, please. You slag him, then bring up the thing he worked with Lucas to make.

If the rumors are true, it was Disney in full panic mode that ordered the Son of Mortis shit to be removed completely and proceeded to do Corporate Interference by Comittee.

 

[Ihavetinyweewee]

.... Don't make me defend Abrams, please. You slag him, then bring up the thing he worked with Lucas to make.

If the rumors are true, it was Disney in full panic mode that ordered the Son of Mortis shit to be removed completely and proceeded to do Corporate Interference by Comittee.

I can kind of undrstand bagging Son of Mortis. Most people would have gone "Who the fuck is this?" It runs into the same problems as bringing back Palpatine: no setup...

It could be they want to use him proper, instead of wasting him to save a disfunctional trilogy..

 

[ZMOT]

Probably because it wasn't finished. A lot of the superstructure was still under construction. Palpatine baited a full scale attack on the Death Star while its innards were exposed.

yeah, remembered that afterwards. they fly through a shaft for a while tho, which makes me wonder how big that thing was. why not fly through the open parts?
eh, destroyed is destroyed.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

.... Don't make me defend Abrams, please. You slag him, then bring up the thing he worked with Lucas to make.

Well, that's assuming the rumor is true and it was Disney who meddled to ruin the movie, then I guess he might get a pass for ROS. Another rumor says he was the one that begged Disney to bring the emperor back despite it being too expensive.

We don't know if that's just him trying to pass the blame of his bad movie to Ryan and Disney. I mean a failure would make him lose a lot of money so he has an interest in denying it to keep future deals going (like his deal with WB).


To be fair with him, I think J,J was the least bad between him, Ryan and KK.

I think he is still at fault given he has a huge ego (I am finishing the 9 movie trilogy!), and he is basically a plagiarist given FA is just a cheap imitation of New Hope. But, at least, from what little I've seen, he tried to make a movie that pleased the fans instead of shiting on them like Ryan, that's why I think he is the least bad.

Had J.J made the 3 movies they would've just been bland. J.J is at least smart enough not to make movies just to piss off people (they piss off people because he fails to understand the source material). He even criticized Ryan for "going to meta" and "telling fans this doesn't matter."

ROS was his poor attempt to regain fan trust IMHO.

 

[verissimus]

.... Don't make me defend Abrams, please. You slag him, then bring up the thing he worked with Lucas to make.

If the rumors are true, it was Disney in full panic mode that ordered the Son of Mortis shit to be removed completely and proceeded to do Corporate Interference by Comittee.

Yeah except if it was Disney decision to remove that idea, they weren't wrong to do so from the perspective that it wasn't set up. It doesn't even really matter either way because they were screwed after TLJ, because they no longer had a main villain to work with assuming you ignore Kylo.

Also, how naive do you and/or JJ have to believe that Disney (or KK) wouldn't have in some capacity interfered with what was ultimately decided to be written and shown? If JJ (or even Lucas for that matter) didn't realize by IX (if not before) that KK is a stupid bitch of a control freak and Iger a pathetic cheap-skate unwilling to take any risks, than why would he even bother thinking they would get behind whatever he (or Lucas) planned? You're an idiot if you think that. JJ should have just pissed off.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

would

I can kind of undrstand bagging Son of Mortis. Most people would have gone "Who the fuck is this?" It runs into the same problems as bringing back Palpatine: no setup...

That's an excellent point, but I think the audience could easily get it that he is just "a personification of the dark side of the force" meddling with their lives (You don't need more than 2 minutes for that tops and would be shorter than the sith dagger macguffin derail), without having to explain the whole clone war 2 parters he shows up or the whole lore behind the ones.

Couldn't be worse than all the million mystery boxes J.J refuses to explain.

IMHO George had the right idea. But I also like the other rewrites people have posted here without using the son. My point is that fixing Ryan's mess wasn't impossible.

Yeah except if it was Disney decision to remove that idea, they weren't wrong to do so from the perspective that it wasn't set up. They were screwed either way after TLJ with regards to who was the main villain.

To be fair, nothing was setup. The time to set up something was TLJ and they wasted the chance.

 

[Gehenna]

Yeah except if it was Disney decision to remove that idea, they weren't wrong to do so from the perspective that it wasn't set up. It doesn't even really matter either way because they were screwed after TLJ, because they no longer had a main villain to work with assuming you ignore Kylo.

Also, how naive do you and/or JJ have to believe that Disney (or KK) wouldn't have in some capacity interfered with what was ultimately decided to be written and shown? If JJ (or even Lucas for that matter) didn't realize by IX (if not before) that KK is a stupid bitch of a control freak and Iger a pathetic cheap-skate unwilling to take any risks, than why would he even bother thinking they would get behind whatever he (or Lucas) planned? You're an idiot if you think that. JJ should have just pissed off.

I ain't saying it would have been done WELL, was just poking at someone using the leaks to slag Abrams when according to those self-same leaks, the very thing he wanted to slag Abrams for was not his fault.

There is a reason that the post was prefaced as it was.

 

[verissimus]

nothing was setup.

Pretty much sums up this trilogy. No setup with a payoff, banking off a nostalgia alone, download/consume comics/books if you want to enjoy the full experience, and film-making by committee.

@Gehenna never said you thought it would have been done well. I just don't understand what the point is in defending JJ. Yeah, he had an impossible job so-to-speak. Ok, why do it then when he wasn't originally contracted to do it? Honestly, why on Earth would you ever want to be that kind of guy?

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

I ain't saying it would have been done WELL, was just poking at someone using the leaks to slag Abrams when according to those self-same leaks, the very thing he wanted to slag Abrams for was not his fault.

I mean other leaks say that it was actually J.J who begged Disney to play a king's ransom for Ian to play Palpatine again, so I took that with a grain of salt.

That leak puts J.J in a positive light, but my point was about how George's alleged idea, if it was really his, could work, which is not the same as saying the leak is 100% true and J.J is blameless.

 

[Gehenna]

Pretty much sums up this trilogy. No setup with a payoff, banking off a nostalgia alone, download/consume comics/books if you want the full experience, and film-making by committee.

@Gehenna never said you thought it would have been done well. I just don't understand what the point is in defending JJ. Yeah, he had an impossible job so-to-speak. Ok, why do it then when he wasn't originally contracted to do it? Honestly, why on Earth would you ever want to be that kind of guy?

My main reason for the defense. Its easy to focus on one target and swing wide and completely miss the other glorious targets.

I try to inject a modicum of fact and temperance, to ensure everyone gets their due rewards for this fuckheap.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I ain't saying it would have been done WELL, was just poking at someone using the leaks to slag Abrams when according to those self-same leaks, the very thing he wanted to slag Abrams for was not his fault.

There is a reason that the post was prefaced as it was.

Well, I mean, Abrams can be faulted for not adapting better to that wrench Rian threw into everythin. I posted an idea earlier to make the Vong the villains instead of Palpatine. But then again, does JJ know anything about Star Wars outside of the movies? Has he ever read a single book or comic, or watched The Clone Wars, or even read a wikipedia synopsis about any of the game plots?
It just seems to me that Abrams' knowledge of Star Wars is insanely superficial and that any entry he could have made would be shallow as fuck, which is why his only idea was "Bring Palpatine Back!" when there is a LOT of shit that could have been taken from the now-decanonized EU and adapted into a film.
Shit, how about Dark Scion? A Sith Lord literally too angry and hateful to die. Since his death (fuck, even his EXISTENCE) is no longer canon they could have whipped him out.

 

[AnOminous]

If JJ (or even Lucas for that matter) didn't realize by IX (if not before) that KK is a stupid bitch of a control freak and Iger a pathetic cheap-skate unwilling to take any risks, than why would he even bother thinking they would get behind whatever he (or Lucas) planned? You're an idiot if you think that. JJ should have just pissed off.

Do you mean take risks on purpose? Because releasing an absolute piece of fucking garbage as the final movie to the biggest movie franchise in history is pretty risky.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

The "legend" thing never made sense. That's the Disney writers assuming, because he is famous in the real world, he would be famous in Star Wars, too.

When Disney writers say Luke was a "legend," I tend to suspect they mean it in the same sense that the EU is "legends" for Disney, which is to say, "cool story, bro, but have you heard about our lady and savior Rey Skywalker?"

But in the Star Wars universe, he didn't have a camera following him around all the time with the London Symphony Orchestra. He was just one person in a galaxy-spanning war. Only military history nerds and Jedi geeks would even know his name.

Why wouldn't he be famous, though? He was the rookie pilot who miraculously took down the Empire's greatest war-machine at the literal last minute. His only family was burned alive by Imperial troops. Red Squadron's original CO, a grizzled old Clone Wars vet, comes up and tells him that he knew his father. He's an honest-to-God Jedi in a faction that calls itself the "Alliance to Restore the Republic" and where officers dismiss their subordinates with the benediction "may the Force be with us." Luke is, quite honestly, a tailor-made subject for morale-building and it would be passing strange if his face wasn't plastered over every Rebel propaganda holo and poster in the galaxy.

I never gave lucas shit for the prequels really, besides one thing: not having a whole qui-gon movie (or simply have anakin show up at the end and start his story later when he's a bit older).

I kind of agree, but Qui-Gon has to die fairly early on in order for Anakin's fall to the Dark Side to happen. After all, Qui-Gon is not just Lucas's most unambiguously positive portrayal of a Jedi Knight, he's also (as the guy who wrote the Plinkett rebuttal pointed out) an idealized father-figure: strong, courageous, confident and compassionate, always supportive of his adoptive sons, never offering criticism without constructive feedback to balance it. Obi-Wan's great failure is that he was not mature and confident enough to follow Qui-Gon's example of adhering to the "here and now" philosophy of the Living Force and responding contextually to events as they occurred. What we see instead with Obi-Wan throughout the Prequels is that he will almost always default back to the authority of the High Council/Yoda when needing to make a decision, rather than thinking for himself, and this was exactly the wrong approach to take with a special case like Anakin, and helped drive the wedge between them that would push Anakin more and more into the orbit of the only potential father-figure who was willing to give him the same consideration and attention (rather than boilerplate platitudes) as Qui-Gon had: Chancellor Palpatine.

Those are all dumb moments, but none of them is as deal-breaking as her sheer overuse and the fact that she wound up causing the shelving of Shaak Ti.

The one is intrinsically connected to the other, in my opinion.

 

[Gehenna]

Well, I mean, Abrams can be faulted for not adapting better to that wrench Rian threw into everythin. I posted an idea earlier to make the Vong the villains instead of Palpatine. But then again, does JJ know anything about Star Wars outside of the movies? Has he ever read a single book or comic, or watched The Clone Wars, or even read a wikipedia synopsis about any of the game plots?
It just seems to me that Abrams' knowledge of Star Wars is insanely superficial and that any entry he could have made would be shallow as fuck, which is why his only idea was "Bring Palpatine Back!" when there is a LOT of shit that could have been taken from the now-decanonized EU and adapted into a film.
Shit, how about Dark Scion? A Sith Lord literally too angry and hateful to die. Since his death (fuck, even his EXISTENCE) is no longer canon they could have whipped him out.

A few things: The leaks are all over the place on who wanted what were.

J.J. Simultaneously, according to the leaks, Wanted the Son of Mortis, Palpatine, and a revived/returned Snoke to be the bad guy. Without clarification, Its REALLY hard to accurately condemn Abrams for anything beyond being a hack in general since these are mutually exclusive positions. Mind, that one has quite a lot of distance on it anyway so...

Personally, as someone who enjoys writing myself, I do sympathize a bit with Abrams in the abstract. While he is a complete hack without a doubt, it was actually impossible to make anything good off of TLJ. Even your won suggestions have the same issue. There can BE no setup. There is and was simply no way at all to satisfyingly set up a new villain and to wrap up a trilogy post TLJ. The best you can hope for is the lofty hypes of Merely Bad.

Though, in condemnation of Abrams, it never needed to be THIS bad. Though that brings up the whole "The leaks make it hard to know who to condemn for that one".

 

[Duke Nukem]

This thing looks like it came out of a cursed puzzle box and wants to drag you down to a terrifying dimension of eternal darkness and unceasing torture where you'll scream in horror and pain, forever.

I guess we'll never know why kids don't like Star Wars anymore.

They can't just let it die a natural death, they have to torment it and urinate on it before setting it on fire and laughing like the evil piece of shit Sith Lords they truly are.

 

[AnOminous]

This thing looks like it came out of a cursed puzzle box and wants to drag you down to a terrifying dimension of eternal darkness and unceasing torture where you'll scream in horror and pain, forever.

That plus the bitch has a bottle cap for a head which ruins the scary effect. Did they intend this thing to look evil as fuck and stupid at the same time?

 

[Gehenna]

Did they intend this thing to look evil as fuck and stupid at the same time?

That sounds like a good description of Lucas Films right now....

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Personally, as someone who enjoys writing myself, I do sympathize a bit with Abrams in the abstract. While he is a complete hack without a doubt, it was actually impossible to make anything good off of TLJ. Even your won suggestions have the same issue. There can BE no setup. There is and was simply no way at all to satisfyingly set up a new villain and to wrap up a trilogy post TLJ. The best you can hope for is the lofty hypes of Merely Bad.

Not exactly.

You guys are right in pointing out that it was impossible to set up a villain to "finish the 9 movies Skywalker saga" or even "wrap this trilogy". That was impossible to fix because Ryan killed the main villain in part2." Every new villain, like the son, and Palpatine, would seem like an asspull. There just was not set up for that.

But to have a villain to make this movie good; that wasn't impossible. Most self-contained movies manage to do it.

I think most people suggesting re-writes and ideas here are saying ROS could've been a good movie on its own, not that it could magically fix the lack of foresight TFA and TLJ had, which I agree simply couldn't be done.

 

[TadGhostal22]

Posting this here because I don't want anybody to read it ever and I just want to get it out anonymously:

I love this movie because it shat all over The Last Jedi. Without irony. Every scene was JJ teabagging Rian Johnson. Rian ruined Luke. Anyone who decided to intentionally shit on the man who ruined Luke Skywalker is my friend for life. It's an incredible mess of a movie but I think I am going to love it forever. Every spectacle movie is a mess. If you can't do a fucking star trek movie right what makes you think that they ever will make good movies?


I like that they ripped off whole cloth the exile/ Darth Traya dyad from KOTOR2....they ripped a ton from the games actually. Im used to star wars game plots, it's how I consumed the media for twenty years. (Kyle Katarn movie 2020).
Palpatine reminded me of the Revan / sith emporer stuff in the EU errata.


I thought the middle part where we had space Amistad told to us was a bit unnecessary. The Finn/Poe stuff is just normal stupid whedon writing that has infected movies forever, even though I like the actual Poe background.

It was trying to be two movies in one. It completely failed at that. Rey had no business being solo at the end. Ben should have been there. It would have been a redemptive task. If Negan or Xena or Venom or any other antihero can do a face turn Ben Solo could do it too. The force healing is unnecessary and hokey.
I 100% think JJ played 1992-2008 star wars games and didn't watch the movies


The movie is the worst and I love it.

 

[Creep3r]

Well, I mean, Abrams can be faulted for not adapting better to that wrench Rian threw into everythin. I posted an idea earlier to make the Vong the villains instead of Palpatine. But then again, does JJ know anything about Star Wars outside of the movies? Has he ever read a single book or comic, or watched The Clone Wars, or even read a wikipedia synopsis about any of the game plots?
It just seems to me that Abrams' knowledge of Star Wars is insanely superficial and that any entry he could have made would be shallow as fuck, which is why his only idea was "Bring Palpatine Back!" when there is a LOT of shit that could have been taken from the now-decanonized EU and adapted into a film.
Shit, how about Dark Scion? A Sith Lord literally too angry and hateful to die. Since his death (fuck, even his EXISTENCE) is no longer canon they could have whipped him out.

As far as I know, the only things he knows about concerning SW are the OT, the Holiday Special, the Prequels and he claims he played KOTOR and claims Kylo Ren was based on Revan, even giving him the pointless title of "Scourge of Malachor" despite that in Disney shit, Malachor is even deader than it was in KOTOR and all Kylo Ren did was go there to find some stupid item that didn't even exist, then left with nothing because there was nothing to do there. How do you become a scourge of a dead planet with zero inhabitants that hardly anyone knows about?

JJ doesn't even have a decent grasp of world building. His entire lore for TFA was just repeats and references from the OT. So much so that the Disney Wars films feel like a self-aware parody of the franchise that takes itself partly serious and is fully aware its just a fictional film franchise but doesn't outright state it while failing to convey the feeling of being a lived-in world with a sense of coherency and escapism. And JJ does this despite being a given a pretty creative basis and rough draft by George and Arndt. But then again I have to wonder how much of that was JJ's fault. The man sucks at concluding plots and development, but the choice to make everything a safe as fuck and a hollow remake feels like something Kennedy and especially Iger would do, with Iger even admitting that he wanted this shit to be safe as possible while also making sure that everything felt "new" and have original names that would make it easy to trademark and trick people unfamiliar with the franchise into thinking that they were being original (which worked for the most part since half of the people who really loved Disney Wars never even saw or even liked the OT, while the other half are OT purists who cream their pants over the slightest OT reference), which resulted in things like Galaxy's Edge being completely original but filled to the brim with knockoff versions of pre-existing things, and also like having Jakku instead of Tatooine (despite that early drafts suggested that Jakku would just be a junkyard district on Tatooine) and having a lot of donut steal versions of old factions, aliens, ships and planets.

I love this movie because it shat all over The Last Jedi. Without irony. Every scene was JJ teabagging Rian Johnson. Rian ruined Luke.

You got a lot of nerve showing your noseless face around here Space Ghost.

Also, people keep saying this but I didn't see any teabagging. Holdo is now a legendary figure with a maneuver named after her and they use the same stupid maneuver at the end of the film (which shows it isn't even a 1 in a million thing and can be abused as much as they want, effectively rendering space battles meaningless), Luke is still dead and died like a bitch, Porgs still exist, if only briefly and are replaced with something way uglier, Rey is more of a sue than ever, Reylo happens which TLJ really kicked off, Snoke is less than nothing now and just gets a cheap throwaway explanation.