- Joined
- Feb 20, 2017
Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off
- Thread starter CowReserach Inc.
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2014
I would unironically pay to see this.
I have not seen anyone in this entire thread unironically make that argument, and we had several users drunkpost for several pages. Where I did see this practice a lot was on various websites during the lead-up to the ST, and that was equal parts due to Autism and blastback to what several communities specifically did to PT fans.
What I have seen a lot in this thread is people arguing that the PT films weren't that bad, which.... I would generally agree with. The PT has more than its fair share of problems including atrocious dialogue, several really stupid ideas, major pacing problems, areas where the worldbuilding doesn't mesh right, and more. However, on its worst day, the PT doesn't go out of its way to destroy anything in the overarching series the way the ST did. The PT didn't have entire groups of journalists telling us that if we didn't think it was a masterpiece, that means we hate women and minorities, or that if we found particularly stupid parts of them stupid, we were evil incarnate, or how it was the best thing ever because it gave its audience the finger and therefore gave self-loathing shitheads something to masturbate over.
You're gonna find that this place is pretty chill and as long as you can back up your reasons with some reasonable arguments you won't find many people here judging you over it. Most people are in agreement that the PT is written like trash, for example, but most can also recognize that it was at least trying to do right by the franchise.
I don't think that the problem was that George needed a check on himself per se, but rather that he needed help in critical areas: Dialogue writing, set design, environmental storytelling, and so on. Lucas' ideas were often thematically sound, but fundamentally flawed in execution or setup. These are areas where if he had the help he needed, they really could have shined. He didn't need a check on him, he needed a good editor and he needed people to help him smooth out his ideas to make his vision connect with the final product.
The PT is rich with new ideas and that's great but there's so many areas just a slight alteration could have made the PT so much more impactful. One of the simplest examples of environmental storytelling that would have been easy as hell to implement would be to gradually make Coruscant look more and more worn, ragged, and less busy as the PT progresses, circumstances obviously brought about by the ongoing war. Clone wars for all its problems got this, so it's very clear that the concept was solid.
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- Joined
- Apr 16, 2017
Even if he stayed in the Sarlacc he wouldn't be dead. He'd become part of the creature's body and be slowly digested for the next 1000 years in a form of endless symbiotic eldritch agony. Seriously did everyone just forget that part of even the film's lines? Regardless, escape wouldn't even be impossible because this is a fucking living thing not a giant steel shredder, its a creature that's best suited for eating dumb wild animals and unarmored beings that aren't walking weapons arsenals.
Also Disney released this under their shitty canon so he's alive in Disney shit too anyway.
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- Joined
- Nov 20, 2019
Scott wasn't the creator of the Alien IP, though, not like Lucas was with Star Wars. There are certainly moments in the first film where his influence seems obvious, story-wise (Ash randomly bloviating about the parasitic xenomorph being "perfect" mirrors Scott's weird fixation on "superior" synthetic organisms as seen in Blade Runner and his two Alien prequels), but on the whole, Dan O'Bannon and James Cameron should receive just as much if not more creative credit.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2019
The man had a jetpack, it's not a stretch he could survive it...
So, if they were to bring him back for Mandalorian: I wouldn't have a problem with it, nor view it as blasphemous..
My only stipulation is that they have a point to it. Also, the character needs to serve the show and not outshine/overtake Din...
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2018
He's shitposting about Star Trek Discovery with us.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2016
This is what I find most fascinating about how the ST has contextualized the PT. For years, the PT was seen as the low point of the Star Wars movies with its atrocious dialogue and being generally boring. People got really fucking angry at Lucas for screwing them up, which is part of the reason they said he ruined their childhood (the other part being the special editions).
But with all that said, the PT wasn't made out of malice or an enmity towards the fans. It tried to tell a story, one that had a place in the Star Wars mythos. It wasn't as if Lucas actively set out to piss all over the Star Wars fans, he just wasn't able to follow through on his ideas.
Contrast that with the ST, which by this point is a complete soulless mess. It's not a studio's vision for a story that follows the events of a beloved trilogy, it's a cynical way for a corporation to squeeze more money out of a fanbase that up until now had remained loyal. None of the movies mesh together to tell a cohesive story, with one of them being a flat-out middle finger to long-time fans. Now the fanbase is in complete disarray, something that didn't even happen when the prequels descended on them.
I think when you compare the two, the PT comes out looking comparatively better by sheer virtue of it not being a soulless corporate product and not completely destroying the fanbase. That doesn't make their problems go away or even make them good movies, but they weren't so destructive nor were they so cynical and corporate, and that's why people are seeing them in a different light. Neither trilogy is good, but at least the PT doesn't hate you for watching it.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2018
How dry is your vagina?LOL is this a fucking joke? Her motivation is to be a fucking mother??
Fuck this dumb series.
Empire at War Remake winning over Thrawn's Revenge is a tragedy. Thrawn's Revenge has successfully introduced influence and government mechanics to Empire at War, of all fucking games, but screw that, let's vote for the Remake because it looks really pretty. Don't worry about the questionable game design.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2016
Hey, @FROG, check it out...from that most reputable of sources, Comicbook.com...
Crazy Rich Asians Director Wants to Make a Star Wars Rose Tico Series for Disney+
Can't be bothered to C&P more,can't be bothered to archive it. (Changed my mind. Sites like this need to die.) But, I must admit I got a chuckle.
Crazy Rich Asians Director Wants to Make a Star Wars Rose Tico Series for Disney+
Can't be bothered to C&P more,
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2019
I kinda disagree, Phantom Menace was equally dividing, if not worse so.
That movie was an atom bomb on the reputation of Star Wars. People were furious/betrayed with it...
The difference is this: the prequels started off as people pissed. Then over time, it became apathy/mocking(episode 3). Then, because of the popularity of "The Clone Wars" it became begruding acceptance.
The Disney stuff is the rough inverse of this(it just fell apart). The only thing that is countering the "Phantom Menace" backlash is Mandalorian. Something George didn't have at the time...
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2019
Boba Fett being revealed in Mando would probably be a season end Cliffhanger.
Having a bounty hunter being hired to chase after a party isn't even breaking lore. I'd imagine that if it did happen it would play out like how Samurai or Western movies reveal the opponent before a duel.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2019
Agreed, it is most certainly a cliff hanger character. Again, it depends on the end game of Moff Gideon. So, Boba could be a major villian or supporting one.
That or they start him off as an anti-hero. That I wouldn't like, you need to firmly establish him as a Villian imo. Then you can develop him into a hero/anti-hero if you wish...
I thought, for a second, the mysterious figure looming over dead Rinnik was him.
It wasn't, it was just Moff Gideon..
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2018
Of course, any sane company would immediately laugh at this dude insulting them on the one hand but demanding that they pay him to make a television show on the other. So Disney will 100% do it.
I have never seen delusional jackasses defend an unpopular character this hard. No one likes her, and a few thousand people crying on twitter doesn't change that.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2019
I don't even remember people being all that pissed off about it at the time. There were many active SW fan-communities online back then, some with thousands or even hundreds of thousands of active members, and my recollection of the period from 2002 through 2005 and beyond is that most of the other fans whose posts I was reading were either enjoying the prequel films as they arrived and eagerly anticipating the next, or at worst being fairly circumspect about what they saw as flaws in the films (I remember being a bit frustrated with my father, as he, an OG Star Wars fan, was one of the only people I knew who had no interest in the Prequels at all). The discussion was lively, generally upbeat, and about as far removed from today's Cultural Revolution-style denunciations of Disney-skeptics for wrong-think as you could possibly imagine, but maybe I was just swimming in a well-spring of online positivity, who knows.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2017
Apparently Pablo Hidalgo has his own subreddit where he is worshiped as some kind of prophet or god where they compile all of his Disney gospel, but its members only.
Anyone have any idea of how cringe this shit is?
They praise TFA for basically being a recycled mess that re-uses all the same predictable plot points and memberberries that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain and making them feel like children watching ANH again for the first time, even though the movie goes out of its way to deconstruct everything from ANH and the rest of the OT for the sake of being able to repeat this same story. So the thought of a movie like TFA turning out to be a sham that lead to nothing seems to be a shock to them, which is why they'd rather go down saying that both trilogies are equally bad or that SW was always shit to try and make TFA sound like a polished turd among a pile of turds despite that not being the case. It was a just a hollow corporate approved and formulaic repeat that offered absolutely nothing new or even a creative venue for writers to expand upon, something even the prequels couldn't fuck up. The prequels are often labeled as having killed the franchise despite that they really didn't. Sales were up, it was all over the media, merch was doing better than ever, best selling video games, comics and books wouldn't stop coming out, and it created to highly successful and award-winning animated shows that beat the odds despite being based on a mediocre trilogy, simply because said trilogy managed to lend itself to a lot of story ideas and creativity, something the Disney Trilogy severely lack. Only thing the Disney Trilogy could do was just redo the original trilogy, but worse or pathetically safe, and it did. And unlike the prequels, the DT has wrought untold damage to the brand name. A name that once could be put on a dog turd and it would sale can't even be used to sell cheap toys on clearance sale anymore. Merch sales are down, comic sales are almost non-existent and can barely break 4 digits, video games are pretty much dead with only one decent release among a very VERY small pile of controversies, and a 4 BILLION dollar park that's been an absolutely unprofitable mess since day 1. Even the prequels at their absolute lowest couldn't achieve this kind of damage outside of pissing off snooty critics and neckbeards. Meanwhile DT has not only pissed off critics, but even the most casual of audiences while dividing the fanbase and killing any and all hope it had of being relevant in China because Disney just did not plan anything in advance. And without even accounting for IRL damage, the Disney films did something even the Prequels or even Dark Empire at its worst couldn't achieve, completely devalue the original films and the heroes that started it all in every conceivable way while humiliating them and destroying the very foundation on which this franchise was built on. For even the prequels at the worst could never change the future and the conclusions to the saga, while Disney purposely went out of their way to destroy it to replace it with their own monstrosity.
For reference, here is the new timeline.
Its no longer one named after any event from the OT era, now its one named after the fucking sequel era that reminds you of what shameful rejects the old heroes were. Leia Organa... Ousted. FFS
Anyone have any idea of how cringe this shit is?
Basically this. My defense of the PT only goes as far as its ideas, visuals, creativity and a few characters. That doesn't change the crappy dialogue, terrible acting direction by George and bad ideas like the timeline and midichlorians. For example, Hayden is actually a good actor, but George wanted him to act stiff and robotic for reasons that elude me. And also while George may not have intended it that way, the mere implication of midis and the portrayal of the jedi within the film shows that they had become too secular and political to the point where their end almost seems like a necessary tragedy and it also makes Kenobi an even better character than we remember. But the prequels are still horribly flawed. Instead, it seems people are miffed over the idea that the PT can receive any positive praise even in a single area (like say complimenting its creature designs) or simply saying that its not as bad as the sequels because they at least tried to be original and memorable despite having an overall messy plot and dialogue. The people most mad by this implication always seem to be those who had an intense boner for TFA and genuinely hated anything outside of the OT or didn't think much of SW to begin with as most will claim it wasn't even their favorite franchise or even one that interested them outside of rewatching the OT annually.
They praise TFA for basically being a recycled mess that re-uses all the same predictable plot points and memberberries that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain and making them feel like children watching ANH again for the first time, even though the movie goes out of its way to deconstruct everything from ANH and the rest of the OT for the sake of being able to repeat this same story. So the thought of a movie like TFA turning out to be a sham that lead to nothing seems to be a shock to them, which is why they'd rather go down saying that both trilogies are equally bad or that SW was always shit to try and make TFA sound like a polished turd among a pile of turds despite that not being the case. It was a just a hollow corporate approved and formulaic repeat that offered absolutely nothing new or even a creative venue for writers to expand upon, something even the prequels couldn't fuck up. The prequels are often labeled as having killed the franchise despite that they really didn't. Sales were up, it was all over the media, merch was doing better than ever, best selling video games, comics and books wouldn't stop coming out, and it created to highly successful and award-winning animated shows that beat the odds despite being based on a mediocre trilogy, simply because said trilogy managed to lend itself to a lot of story ideas and creativity, something the Disney Trilogy severely lack. Only thing the Disney Trilogy could do was just redo the original trilogy, but worse or pathetically safe, and it did. And unlike the prequels, the DT has wrought untold damage to the brand name. A name that once could be put on a dog turd and it would sale can't even be used to sell cheap toys on clearance sale anymore. Merch sales are down, comic sales are almost non-existent and can barely break 4 digits, video games are pretty much dead with only one decent release among a very VERY small pile of controversies, and a 4 BILLION dollar park that's been an absolutely unprofitable mess since day 1. Even the prequels at their absolute lowest couldn't achieve this kind of damage outside of pissing off snooty critics and neckbeards. Meanwhile DT has not only pissed off critics, but even the most casual of audiences while dividing the fanbase and killing any and all hope it had of being relevant in China because Disney just did not plan anything in advance. And without even accounting for IRL damage, the Disney films did something even the Prequels or even Dark Empire at its worst couldn't achieve, completely devalue the original films and the heroes that started it all in every conceivable way while humiliating them and destroying the very foundation on which this franchise was built on. For even the prequels at the worst could never change the future and the conclusions to the saga, while Disney purposely went out of their way to destroy it to replace it with their own monstrosity.
For reference, here is the new timeline.
Its no longer one named after any event from the OT era, now its one named after the fucking sequel era that reminds you of what shameful rejects the old heroes were. Leia Organa... Ousted. FFS
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2014
The blastback to Phantom Menace was but a mild fart compared to the shitstorm that was the blastback to TLJ. At the worst, Phantom Menace was a boring fucking movie with shitty writing and shitty implementation of ideas. The Midichlorians line was a fucking botch, and the movie has awful fucking progression, but the high points of the movie were pretty universally loved even by the movie's detractors. Up until online critics started prodding it for yucks, I rarely heard any arguments that the Phantom Menace ruined Star Wars, save but for the most spergy. At worst I heard that it was a bad movie with bad writing and bad pacing, which is fucking accurate.
The difference between now and then is that not only is the ST's writing and characterization infinitely worse (and lazier), but is intended to specifically alienate, belittle, and accost the fans for the high crime of giving a shit. With the Prequels you could make arguments that there was some outstandingly good ideas, excellent action sequences, and more than a few moments with actual weight and payoff, even if many of them fell wide of the mark. The ST was specifically intended to piss off and alienate fans, destroy the old mythos, and undermine everything the original series stood for. They then had a host of fucking morons telling people that they were sexist/racist/fill-in-the-blank-ist if they didn't suck TLJ's fetid cock.
One was done out of incompetence.
One was done out of malice.
And even the spergiest fan can tell the fucking difference.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2018
Even the Wook hasn't updated to reflect the new dating changes, and there's no page for it. Are they debating behind the scenes how best to implement it all at once or are even they pissed?
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2017
To be honest I haven't even bothered to check. Maybe there's some good drama to be found so I think I'll go take a peak and see how the neckbeards over there are reacting to this.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2019
Another thing to bear in mind is that the Prequels made the Jedi incredibly popular. Sure, everyone already loved Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda and lightsabers, but the Jedi Order itself had always been a bit vague, due to George's keeping the Clone Wars era off-limits for EU writers (and the most popular character prior to 1999 was Han Solo, with the West End Games RPGs being organized with the expectation that most players were going to be adopting some variation of his archetype as their PC). But then, all of a sudden, you had dozens and hundreds of unique Jedi characters, a Jedi Temple, uniformic Jedi robes, Jedi starfighters, a formal Jedi code, detailed and distinct styles of lightsaber combat, enough detail and world-building to satisfy even the most autistic, and the fans just ate it up (maybe even a little too enthusiastically, since the PT era Jedi were supposed to be examples of how not to Jedi in many ways). It was kind of like what's happening now with this growing interest in the Mandalorians, but on a much larger scale, unhampered by all the recent unpleasantness.
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- Joined
- Jul 13, 2019
If you don't mind me asking, what was your age when Phantom Menace came out?
Cause this could be a perspective thing..