Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

I used to think like a RLM drone but now after watching Star Wars and Star Trek turn into crap I believe that you should let the creator do whatever he wants. It's the same for the Alien franchise for example, I know a lot of people want to see the IP taken away from Ridley Scott's hands but I don't want that to be given to Blomkamp the one-trick pony or someone else.
Most creators need someone over them to shoot down their dumber ideas, but taking things away from them entirely is how we get WokeWars-tier garbage. Once you buy an IP from its creator, you've removed the one person who cares the most about it and put it in the hands of people who just care about the money they'll make from it. You've also removed its original core creative vision. It's a recipe for disaster. I just can't bring myself to care about a franchise once this happens, since I know that it's near-certain to turn to shit.

On one hand I think people who demand boycotts and get assmad when other people still buy merch are autistic on the other hate watchers are idiots.
The way I see it, if you go watch TROS knowing in advance that it's garbage and you'll probably hate it, you've knowingly spent your time and your money to do nothing but piss yourself off. If you respected yourself, you wouldn't do that. You've cucked yourself. And if you don't respect yourself, no one else will respect you. I'm not mad at people for watching TROS but I don't respect them either.

I'm not so sure they succeeded, otherwise they wouldn't be losing money and asses in seats. They're certainly going in that direction.
Lucas Star Wars put butts in seats. Disney Star Wars put heads in butts.
 
For what exactly (not joking by the way)?

@Ghostse heavily disagree not unless aspects of the Phantom Menace were changed. As far as I'm concerned, the whole prequel trilogy should have focuesd primarily on the Clone wars and the Jedi. We didn't need to see Palpatine go from senator to chancellor or kid Anakin or even Qui Gon. Just start us off with teenage Anakin and Obi-wan and have say Anakin be the protagonist of the first two movies and Obi-wan the last movie.

I felt differently. Title crawl aside, we see leaders of the Trade Federation conspiring with a Dark Lord of the Sith to force a treaty with a planet they've surrounded & kill anyone in their way, which just so happened to be Jedi. This is preceded by them landing an invasion force on Naboo, as ordered by Lord Sidious. Pretty sure everyone watching knew they were the bad guys within the first 10 minutes, and wanted the two Jedi to win, despite neither of them being a farm boy or a rogue smuggler. They're mystical space samurai serving the galactic republic.

It could arguably have been more bloated and boring as a TV show or mini-series. Imagine how much exposition and idle babble they'd pad out each episode with. The only good side I could think of is getting to see more of the inner workings of the Jedi Order, including the trials Obi-Wan would've undergone sometime after the Battle of Naboo. Otherwise, the pacing isn't too bad: escape the TF control ship, go to underwater city, head to Theed via dangerous route, bust out the Queen and her entourage, narrowly break through the blockade and have to land on Tatooine for repairs, bet on pod-racing, go to Coruscant for Jedi business & The Senate, and finally go back to Naboo and wage a war against robots. Not as straight-forward as "save the princess", but between the coming-and-going and the occasional Jar Jar gag, it doesn't leave me too bored even during the political intrigue scenes.

I think a fair bit of bloat would have worked in favor of Phantom Menance: The Series. You'd have more space to set up the situation (and why we care; or I guess more specifically why we don't care, because I believe the utter banality of the mission was to be part of the point; being betrayed on a diplomatic mission, stopping an invasion, blowing up a battleship... another fucking Tuesday, with the characters having no clue about just how pivotal these events were until later. Again, I see what Lucas was trying to do, but I still don't like the execution). Something akin to Westworld or Game of Thrones, where there is action, but also a lot of plot, with time and space for long-germination plots to mature.

The movie would lend itself to episodes fairly well.
First episode is introducing the characters, the betrayal, escaping the blockade, the invasion force landing.
2nd episode is the invasion, meeting JarJar, making it to the capital - cut out the whole Gungan city; save that for later.
3rd episode is rescuing Padme and escaping Naboo.
4th episode is them deciding to head to Tatooine- discus the aftermath of the invasion, get our first glimpse of Darth Maul stalking them (action sequence would be Qui & Obi dispatching local thugs who try to jump them; maybe the Hutts are shown to have an open bounty on any Jedi in their turf, maybe its implied Maul hired them to feel out the Jedi), meet Anakin.
5th Episode is the Pod Race - the lead up, the race, the aftermath, the first engagement with Darth Maul.
6th Episode is Coruscant; we've been getting snippets of Pappa Palpatine doing political manuevering through the series so far, but this episode focuses mainly on galactic politics - less in the Senate Chamber, more in the back rooms and offices where the senate business actually gets done, letting Padme get thoroughly disgusted with the corruption. B-plot is Anakin going through the Jedi candidate process. The Epsiode ends with Anakin being rejected by the council and the Senate voting a meaningless, toothless resolution.
Episode 6 is them returning to Naboo, and Padme trying to contact & rally the resistance while Qui & Obi come along on the pretense of investigating Maul to see if it was a sith they encountered; Padme contacts the resistance, and convinces JarJar to try to get the Gungans to join the rebellion she's planning.
Episode 7 & 8 would be a nearly pure-action two parter where all the pieces are put in place, the ground battle starts, then the space battle, the fight with Darth Maul, then the wrap up. Maybe just for an extra rub, have Palpatine show up with a Republic task force immediately after the Trade Federation Battleship blows up, right as they are no longer needed (but definitely enough of a presence to keep the TF from sending reinforcements & trying again with Naboo already battered).

Maybe make it a round 10 episodes by adding more to the Podracing/Maul on Tatooine (Maul takes a contract from Jabba? Jabba working with Darth Sidious whether he knows it or not?) and more going on with the Senate/Jedi things on Coruscant.
#butwhatifitwasgood


Was it only 10 minutes till Darth Sidious showed up? It felt longer. You were told the chinese bankers of the Trade Federation were bad, but you never really got a sense for why they were bad, other than they were working with the Sith and had blockaded a world because of taxes or whatever. We're told they're bad, but not really shown that the Trade Federation taking over the equivalent of Gary, Indiana is all that bad other than that its obviously wrong.
A better villian might have been a mining guild or similar; the Trade Federation, there was some vague sense of unpaid debts or whatever. A mining guild, wanting to strip-mine Naboo, makes a more sensible villian; they aren't just wanting to topple the government and raise taxes, they want to evict the planet's population to turn the planet into a pit mine.
 
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Life goals, LOL 😛
 
To clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that Cameron was involved in the production of Alien, but rather that his work on Aliens was hugely influential in popularizing and "expanding" what most people think of when that universe comes up in conversation: the insectile hierarchy of the xenomorphs, the United States Colonial Marines and their oddly hand-in-glove relationship with the Weyland-Yutani corporation and so on and so forth. I think Scott may resent how popular Cameron's sequel was and that's why he was so eager to stonewall Blomkamp's proposed Aliens follow-up, which would of course have been a love-letter to Cameron's influence over the franchise.

Alien is an amazing film. But it only works once. Once you know what the xenomorph is, and how it works, how it moves, what's its goal is....there's no more surprise, no more shock or suspense. You know what's waiting for them with that sensor blip, you know the guy found knocked out is going to spawn a chest burster.
Cameron did a hard fucking juke with Aliens, where rather than try to pretend the audience wouldn't know what was going on or about to happen, he went into a whole other direction and made it work. The narrative is attached to Ripley who knows everything the audience knows, and like the audience is screaming at the top of her lungs "Don't do it! Don't open the door!" at the people around her who refuse to listen until it's too late.
Aliens also added new surprises and twists (the Queen, etc).

That's why Prometheus didn't really work. And a part of why Covenant didn't either; Alien is practically its own trope at this point.

(I always thought a more interesting take on the intro, and what I'd thought was going on until I saw the extended scene, was that the Engineer was sacrifcing himself to create xenomorphs to kill his fellow engineers and wipe out the extermination fleet)
 
For reference, here is the new timeline.
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Its no longer one named after any event from the OT era, now its one named after the fucking sequel era that reminds you of what shameful rejects the old heroes were. Leia Organa... Ousted. FFS
Why does the Battle of Hoth count as a rout but the Battle of Crait is only a "near-routing?"
 
But the sequel designs are straight-up lifted from Ralph McQuarrie's design prototypes of the X-Wing with VERY minor touch-up.
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If anything, his original designs of them really look sleeker and more streamlined than the OT's one, which is clunkier (must also account that it's for practical effect's sake at the time, not the CG mish-mash we have nowadays) and you can see the differences from draft production to what they could actually do at the time.

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I think everybody who gives a good goddamn about Star Wars hates Rian Johnson, except SW Cuck or anybody that allows his wife to get plowed by Darnell and is happy about it.
Yes, the finalization and what I consider refinement of the Mcquarrie designs was by Joe Johnston and the ILM model builders. I really consider their final designs surperior to the more sleek classic sci fi Mcquarrie designs. Disneys group doesnt understand this and trys to copy the direct Mcquarrie concept designs which look out of place when compared to what was shown on film in the OT.
 
Why does the Battle of Hoth count as a rout but the Battle of Crait is only a "near-routing?"
The other thing I noticed is that it says the "deaths" of Vader and Sidious ended the Sith conspiracy. It's very odd wording, you'd think that the timeline would just outright state "near-death" when it comes to Palps.
 
Abrams can be faulted for not adapting better to that wrench Rian threw into everythin
i disagree tbh
TFA established the setting for the sequel trilogy as a pretty straightforward clone of the original trilogy
empire = first order
rebellion = resistance
palpatine = snoke
vader = kylo ren
luke = rey
abrams started the trilogy with a new hope 2.0 and set everything up so that he could later end it with return of the jedi 2.0 a few years later
but then rian johnson just took a big fat dump on the whole thing by randomly throwing away the guy that abrams had set up as his dedicated super-villain. with snoke gone and kylo ren being in the weird position of a half-evil-half-redeemed minor villain turned anti-hero (but not really) there was literally nowhere to go with episode 9.
i'm not defending the gigantic retardation that is the "dude palpatine is back lmao" route he went with, but i honestly don't see how he could have salvaged this trilogy after the mess johnson left him with. the most believable and straightforward way would probably have been to let kylo take snoke's place as supreme leader of the first order and make the final movie about a grand confrontation between rey and kylo, but then the movie would still have sucked because after the last two films kylo simply wouldn't be able to pull off the part of a serious and menacing supervillain.

tl;dr TLJ was such a massive 'just fuck my shit up' event that it completely poisoned the well for episode 9 and made it pretty much impossible for ep9 to have good writing and a coherent story
 
It makes me depressed knowing all of the crazy ideas Lucas offered up for the sequels, for Force Awakens AND Rise of Skywalker, that were just tossed aside by Disney so they could make a bastardized repeat of OT. People remember that Matt Smith used to be part of the tRoS cast, and I only found out recently that an early draft of the script had him as the Son of Mortis, and the film would introduce a mythical element to the Jedi and Sith that hadn't been touched on in the films before.

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You can still see Lucas's vision for the sequels in early TFA concept art, back when he was still involved, and man we really got the short end of the stick when it came to the sequels. In some alternate timeline, there are people who got a trilogy of films that expanded the universe and introduced a new interesting story.
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i disagree tbh
TFA established the setting for the sequel trilogy as a pretty straightforward clone of the original trilogy
empire = first order
rebellion = resistance
palpatine = snoke
vader = kylo ren
luke = rey
abrams started the trilogy with a new hope 2.0 and set everything up so that he could later end it with return of the jedi 2.0 a few years later
but then rian johnson just took a big fat dump on the whole thing by randomly throwing away the guy that abrams had set up as his dedicated super-villain. with snoke gone and kylo ren being in the weird position of a half-evil-half-redeemed minor villain turned anti-hero (but not really) there was literally nowhere to go with episode 9.
i'm not defending the gigantic exceptionalism that is the "dude palpatine is back lmao" route he went with, but i honestly don't see how he could have salvaged this trilogy after the mess johnson left him with. the most believable and straightforward way would probably have been to let kylo take snoke's place as supreme leader of the first order and make the final movie about a grand confrontation between rey and kylo, but then the movie would still have sucked because after the last two films kylo simply wouldn't be able to pull off the part of a serious and menacing supervillain.

tl;dr TLJ was such a massive 'just fuck my shit up' event that it completely poisoned the well for episode 9 and made it pretty much impossible for ep9 to have good writing and a coherent story
Not much of a good trade off if remaking the OT comes at the cost of completely undoing the original and the achievements and developments of its characters for the sake of glorifying cheap carbon copies that are essentially donut steal mary sue versions of the originals which was KK's plan from the get go.

It makes me depressed knowing all of the crazy ideas Lucas offered up for the sequels, for Force Awakens AND Rise of Skywalker, that were just tossed aside by Disney so they could make a bastardized repeat of OT. People remember that Matt Smith used to be part of the tRoS cast, and I only found out recently that an early draft of the script had him as the Son of Mortis, and the film would introduce a mythical element to the Jedi and Sith that hadn't been touched on in the films before.

View attachment 1071978
You can still see Lucas's vision for the sequels in early TFA concept art, back when he was still involved, and man we really got the short end of the stick when it came to the sequels. In some alternate timeline, there are people who got a trilogy of films that expanded the universe and introduced a new interesting story.
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There's more art and info on the original drafts and ideas by George and Arndt on page 522. And speaking of, here are the relevant links again for new arrivals:


To watch Plan IX in full, go to any of these links (we also have scenes thrown about in the thread starting after page 1100):
https://multiup.org/download/670104...lley.me_StWrs.2019.720p.HDCAM-GETB8.part1.rar
https://multiup.org/download/6e9a1c...lley.me_StWrs.2019.720p.HDCAM-GETB8.part2.rar (part 3 is apparently missing)
https://julay.world/sw/res/913.html (full movie in webm format)
http://boards.4channel.org/wsg/thread/3200782 (not complete but contains only the most relevant and shitty moments from the film)

For a detailed breakdown of box office info for every Disney Wars film except IX, with statistics, analytical shit, and China's relation to Disney Wars profits, see page 633:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...y-about-last-jedi.32492/page-633#post-5227376

For the posts about Lucasfilm fucking up merch, shit starts around page 630:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...rise-of-the-skywalker-spoilers.32492/page-638

For a summary of why JJ is as much of a fuck up as KK and Rian, see page 1043:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...-about-last-jedi.32492/page-1043#post-5731370

For the sequel trilogy we could've had, see page 522:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...kywalker-spoilers.32492/page-522#post-4863887

For the final verdict on Disney Wars and just how massively they fucked up go here:
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/star-...ywalker-spoilers.32492/page-1135#post-5741522
 
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