[Dec 15 2019] Foreclosure Saga - http://civilinquiry.jud.ct.gov/CaseDetail/PublicCaseDetail.aspx?DocketNo=FBTCV196091825S

[andr0id psycho sho(ker]

So just the mortgage which is about a grand, utilities, and other debt I imagine. Which leaves next to no room for games, consoles or expensive mail order food.

Maybe Kat could buy some of that stuff with her money from Khols? We know Dave would nag her for that and Kat would start looking for a way out of fort gout even faster

 

[actually]

So just the mortgage which is about a grand, utilities, and other debt I imagine. Which leaves next to no room for games, consoles or expensive mail order food.

I imagine it'll have to do with whether he or his lawyer can convince the judge that he needs a certain amount to buy games. Could be a hard sell with the number of replayable multiplayer games there are.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I imagine it'll have to do with whether he or his lawyer can convince the judge that he needs a certain amount to buy games. Could be a hard sell with the number of replayable multiplayer games there are.

Judge tells him to play Fortnite for his gamer fix.

 

[AnOminous]

@SoapQueen1 or @AnOminous can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if he ends up on the payment plan (Chapter 13?), he will be given a set amount of money per month (let's say $5000) to pay his necessary bills (utilities, WAkhando mortgage, etc) and have enough for food and such (as determined by the court). Anything above that amount will go straight to the people/companies he owes money to via a trustee, in an order I imagine is also determined by the court.

No, the opposite. He'll have a fixed amount to pay every month and if he doesn't they don't give a fuck why, they're just canceling it if he can't make it right. He's likely to start out with the court already doubtful about his plan, whatever it is.

If his circumstances change (and he has to report on them) then it's up to him or his creditors or the trustee to file something to change the payment.

Here's an example of a Chapter 13 plan for someone (a lawyer) with a fluctuating income (to say the least), specifically, lolcow lawyer Thomas Gregory Doucette of weeb wars.

For other Douchette-related documents, including some about what happens when you fuck up a Chapter 13 plan: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nceb.306730/gov.uscourts.nceb.306730.3.0.pdf

 

[actually]

No, the opposite. He'll have a fixed amount to pay every month and if he doesn't they don't give a fuck why, they're just canceling it if he can't make it right. He's likely to start out with the court already doubtful about his plan, whatever it is.

So he'll need to come up with $X minimum for his debtors, and then anything beyond that he'll have available to use for his monthly bills, eating, and so on?

 

[AnOminous]

So he'll need to come up with $X minimum for his debtors, and then anything beyond that he'll have available to use for his monthly bills, eating, and so on?

They don't really care whether he eats or not or lives or dies.

 

[James Smith]

Right, so I was off on my assumption he'd be told to give all of his income to the trustee then be given a stipend back, which would be way more complicated and way funnier. It looks like the trustee or a creditor can ask for the payment to increase based on an increase in income or new property he obtains, but it's not automatic like that.

They'll calculate the amount he has to pay, and if he works hard he'll get to keep extra money for dumb shit, although he's not starting out with very much money for anything much less dumb shit.

 

[Kheapathic]

No, the opposite. He'll have a fixed amount to pay every month and if he doesn't they don't give a fuck why, they're just canceling it if he can't make it right. He's likely to start out with the court already doubtful about his plan, whatever it is.

If his circumstances change (and he has to report on them) then it's up to him or his creditors or the trustee to file something to change the payment.

Here's an example of a Chapter 13 plan for someone (a lawyer) with a fluctuating income (to say the least), specifically, lolcow lawyer Thomas Gregory Doucette of weeb wars.

For other Douchette-related documents, including some about what happens when you fuck up a Chapter 13 plan: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nceb.306730/gov.uscourts.nceb.306730.3.0.pdf

Since you called it "his plan," is the process Phil (and his lawyer) coming up with a plan, submitting it to the court and then the court/debitors agreeing or telling him to rework it?

 

[BrokeACKMountain]

So he'll need to come up with $X minimum for his debtors, and then anything beyond that he'll have available to use for his monthly bills, eating, and so on?

So he'll have to pay his debtors just like was supposed to be doing, only now he'll have the courts shitting down his neck when he inevitably fucks it up.

 

[harbinger]

Now that the ConnCondo is going into foreclosure, is it too late for Philip to use Chapter 13 to get a cramdown on that mortgage and walk away from this thing with a $40k asset the could turn around and sell?

 

[James Smith]

Now that the ConnCondo is going into foreclosure, is it too late for Philip to use Chapter 13 to get a cramdown on that mortgage and walk away from this thing with a $40k asset the could turn around and sell?

A cramdown would work by

1. declaring bankruptcy before they get a lien applied to his WA condo
2. paying down the CT mortgage to the point where it's paid off up to what it's worth, and
3. having the rest be considered unsecured debt that's paid off at best effort through the bankruptcy

He would have to pay in the ballpark of $38K to do this and pay as agreed from then onward though. He might even have to pay it off entirely early, within 5 years instead of as agreed, depending on the court's opinion of keeping investment properties during Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Otherwise he'd still lose the CT condo.

 

[The Penultimate Warrior]

Seriously, the bank has no incentive to go out of their way to get top dollar for the shit they take from bankruptcies when they can just get the money from the person anyway. Phil would have been much better off in the years his stuff was sitting there actually selling it to his paypigs. Remember when Phil sold the Portal gun to one of his paypigs (who ended up being a gay furry)? He got top dollar for it and the shipping costs covered. The bank is gonna dump that shit quickly. What's funny is that when Phil was talking about the statues, he was describing them as being in "pristine" condition and worth a lot of money, the bank could get a lot of money from them and part of his debt is gone, dood! Cut to 30 seconds later he was saying the bank was taking "junk" off his hands and it's a good thing because it's taking up too much room in his closet. When it's in his possession, it's highly valued collectibles, but when it's no longer his suddenly it becomes worthless junk. He's such a child.

Would they just throw his stuff into a public auction? Given how niche it is, would likely mean it only gets a fraction of its actual value.

 

[andr0id psycho sho(ker]

Would they just throw his stuff into a public auction? Given how niche it is, would likely mean it only gets a fraction of its actual value.

They could advertise it to his paypigs. They'd pay for it, then the paypigs would give it back to Phil for no cost, by paying shipping and handling fees if they ever do decide to give it back

 

[AnOminous]

A cramdown would work by

1. declaring bankruptcy before they get a lien applied to his WA condo
2. paying down the CT mortgage to the point where it's paid off up to what it's worth, and
3. having the rest be considered unsecured debt that's paid off at best effort through the bankruptcy

He would have to pay in the ballpark of $38K to do this and pay as agreed from then onward though. He might even have to pay it off entirely early, within 5 years instead of as agreed, depending on the court's opinion of keeping investment properties during Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Otherwise he'd still lose the CT condo.

Depending on a combo of how sleazy the mortgage holder is and how much they knew DSP himself was a bad bet, they might have a draconian acceleration clause that means he has to pay it all now immediately. Even if they choose not to exercise that it would give them a huge negotiating advantage. If they have such a clause they might not even be willing to work out an arrangement, having had it with DSP's bullshit.

 

[DiabeticSP]

If you stop paying a mortgage because you know you're going to declare bankruptcy, can the court force you to pay the mortgage amount you're delinquent on?

 

[James Smith]

If you stop paying a mortgage because you know you're going to declare bankruptcy, can the court force you to pay the mortgage amount you're delinquent on?

Yes and no. You stop paying, declare bankruptcy, and let the court work out your future payments in a way that's fair to everyone you owe money to. Should you stop paying a single creditor, wait 8 months, declare bankruptcy, and let the court work it out? Nah. But I don't think there's anything substantial the court will do differently because of his delay.

Maybe Midfirst will get more money than normal compared to unsecured and nonpriority creditors but that's about it. I can imagine it affecting his disposable income to the degree that it makes him not qualify for Chapter 13 but I don't think he's quite that underwater.

 

[AnOminous]

If you stop paying a mortgage because you know you're going to declare bankruptcy, can the court force you to pay the mortgage amount you're delinquent on?

They can do lots of things but I doubt they'd do that. What would happen is the mortgage holder, being a secured creditor, would file a motion with the bankruptcy court to lift the automatic stay so they could proceed with the foreclosure. Such motions are often granted.

 

[James Smith]

Cross-post:

Notable, he can only file under Chapter 13 if his unsecured debt is less than $250K. Holy shit if Midfirst doesn't get that lien he'll have probably super fucking close to that limit. God I hope he gets told no. He will only have like $130K of wiggle room until they sell that CT condo, and it says "on the date of filing the petition".

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/109 e

"Only an individual with regular income that owes, on the date of the filing of the petition, noncontingent, liquidated, unsecured debts of less than $250,000 [2] and noncontingent, liquidated, secured debts of less than $750,000, or an individual with regular income and such individual’s spouse, except a stockbroker or a commodity broker, that owe, on the date of the filing of the petition, noncontingent, liquidated, unsecured debts that aggregate less than $250,000  and noncontingent, liquidated, secured debts of less than $750,000  may be a debtor under chapter 13 of this title."

 

[actually]

Cross-post:

Notable, he can only file under Chapter 13 if his unsecured debt is less than $250K. Holy shit if Midfirst doesn't get that lien he'll have probably super fucking close to that limit. God I hope he gets told no. He will only have like $130K of wiggle room until they sell that CT condo, and it says "on the date of filing the petition".

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/109 e

"Only an individual with regular income that owes, on the date of the filing of the petition, noncontingent, liquidated, unsecured debts of less than $250,000 [2] and noncontingent, liquidated, secured debts of less than $750,000, or an individual with regular income and such individual’s spouse, except a stockbroker or a commodity broker, that owe, on the date of the filing of the petition, noncontingent, liquidated, unsecured debts that aggregate less than $250,000  and noncontingent, liquidated, secured debts of less than $750,000  may be a debtor under chapter 13 of this title."

So in layman terms, if he files before Midfirst gets a lien on his WAkhando, he may actually have a harder time getting chapter 13?

 

[James Smith]

So in layman terms, if he files before Midfirst gets a lien on his WAkhando, he may actually have a harder time getting chapter 13?

In layman terms if he has less than $150K in nonpriority unsecured debt he doesn't qualify at all. If he has more than $250K in nonpriority unsecured debt he doesn't qualify at all.

Example ways he can have too little:

• He has less than $150K of credit card and personal loan debt
• Midfirst obtains a judgement but gets a lien so it's like $60K of secured debt

or

• He has less than $150K of credit card and personal loan debt
• Midfirst doesn't obtain a judgement before he files in bankruptcy court

Example way he can have too much:

• He has more than $190K of credit card and personal loan debt
• Midfirst obtains a judgement but doesn't get a lien so it's like $60K of unsecured debt

I think these examples are accurate. He might be threading a needle here... @AnOminous what do you think?