[16-Jan-2020] DarksydePhil is filing for bankruptcy (general thread) - and has officially done so on January 31 2020, meaning a lot of his finances have become public

[James Smith]

Currently, the biggest things people who want his bankruptcy to fail can hope for is that

• he fucks up during the 60-month plan which probably will happen
• he doesn't have enough debt to qualify which is probably not the case
• he doesn't have enough disposable income to qualify which is probably not the case

 

[BrokeACKMountain]

What sort of time frame will he need to provide bank statements for (if any)? Could there be any chance that he premeditated when to declare his bankruptcy to avoid any potential complications? I.e. would declaring now avoid him disclosing the Emerald7 and Tut money to prying eyes?

 

[737 MAX Stan Account]

I gotta ask, are things acquired via microtransactions (ie, the stuff Phil got in his wrestling moneysink) considered an "asset" or is it just money that's gone up in smoke? At least with stuff like MtG cards or 40k miniatures, they're physical things you own.

 

[James Smith]

I gotta ask, are things acquired via microtransactions (ie, the stuff Phil got in his wrestling moneysink) considered an "asset" or is it just money that's gone up in smoke? At least with stuff like MtG cards or 40k miniatures, they're physical things you own.

Can you sell it at an auction? If so it's an asset. If not it's not considered an asset. You won't be able to sell someone's Apple Play account at auction, the courts won't compel it. They could reverse payments to Apple Pay to get the cash back if they felt a need but that's about it.

 

[LightTailFoal]

I suspect the way in which a court regards virtual properties depends on the terms of service established by the company creating such virtual properties.

In the case of WWE Champions, the company is Scopely, and scopely.com/tos is where you can see their terms of service. Some relevant quotes:

"You are prohibited from renting, selling, gifting, or giving away your Account or Account-related information."
"You are prohibited from selling or transferring prizes or rewards obtained in connection with the Services to any other person or entity."
"Any time you purchase virtual currency (including but not limited to virtual cash and other in-game premium currency), virtual in-game items, and any other premium goods or services in connection with our Services (collectively, “Virtual Items”) with real currency (i.e., real world money), Scopely grants you a limited, personal, non-transferable, non-sublicensable, revocable license to use such Virtual Items. All purchases and redemptions of such Virtual Items through our Services are final and non-refundable, unless otherwise determined by us. Scopely may manage, regulate, control, modify or eliminate Virtual Items at any time, with or without notice to you. Scopely will have no liability to you or any third party in the event that Scopely exercises any such rights."
"Virtual Items have no real world value. Other than as expressly authorized in our Services, you may not sell, redeem or otherwise transfer Virtual Items to any person or entity, including but not limited to Scopely, another user or any third party."

 

[James Smith]

I suspect the way in which a court regards virtual properties depends on the terms of service established by the company creating such virtual properties.

The court doesn't give a shit about that. They didn't agree to that contract, you did, and they took your stuff away from you and now it's theirs to sell. If the people who control the game don't like it, they can delete the account. Imagine going to the court and saying "You can't seize this boat to pay my debt, I have a contract saying I can't sell it!" The remedy is the sale of the boat to you becomes void and you still lose the boat. The court just isn't the one taking it from you.

 

[DiabeticSP]

They aren't going to auction off his gacha games.

They'll auction off physical assets for whatever basement bargain bin price they can get and slap him on a payment plan for the rest.

He'll be lucky to get 50 dollars per statue.

 

[WeeblesWobble]

I've never seen someone go through a bankruptcy, but please tell me they sell his shit like an Estate sell where people just walk through the house and then buy up all of his shit at an auction in the living room lmao.


I know, but a man can hope.

 

[Martys_not_smarty]

I've never seen someone go through a bankruptcy, but please tell me they sell his shit like an Estate sell where people just walk through the house and then buy up all of his shit at an auction in the living room lmao.


I know, but a man can hope.

Does that happen? Sure in certain circumstances, will it happen to him? Nah probably not, usually such sales are for very large estates with lots of large items for sale such as cars and furniture where it's just easier to keep it in one place and have people come to you.

 

[Fareal]

The court doesn't give a shit about that. They didn't agree to that contract, you did, and they took your stuff away from you and now it's theirs to sell. If the people who control the game don't like it, they can delete the account. Imagine going to the court and saying "You can't seize this boat to pay my debt, I have a contract saying I can't sell it!" The remedy is the sale of the boat to you becomes void and you still lose the boat. The court just isn't the one taking it from you.

Yeah and no, and that's kinda the rub with digital assets.

If the court can be persuaded that the lolwhale game account has a value, in most jurisdictions the court has the power to treat it has part of the bankruptcy proceedings. ("It has a value? Okay, it's an asset.")

The problem is that any court or mediation service will ALSO enforce the game company's EULA, which without fail states that the account and any 'digital goods' attached to it are non transferable. This will be the case regardless of whether a court was somehow persuaded to treat it as an asset in bankruptcy, since we all know the rule that you can't pass a better title than you own. (This is why EULAs are the work of the devil and should never have been accepted into contract law in the UK at least. Rant over.)

This is why even hardcore whale accounts for gacha games will change hands for 100 to 200 dollars, because the account will be lolbanhammered the minute the company figure out you sold/transferred it, and you have absolutely no comeback.

Any value the court attaches to the whale accounts is in practice irrecoverable. Which would leave Phil slightly fucked if the court DID decide to assign it a notional value anywhere near the cost of the purchases he's made on it. He would have an awful lot of paper debt (possibly real debt too, if he was slapping the pulls on a credit card) tied up to an account that's worth buttons.

Disclaimer: I don't know how US personal bankruptcy law varies from UK personal bankruptcy. If I was applying for personal insolvency, I would not want any court to be getting the impression my non transferable digital purchases were worth anything, or that my trustee could try and raise money on them. That way lies only pain.

[Edit: I think we crossposted, just saw your edit about the boat. That depends on the bankrupt's title to the boat, title saving clauses, blah blah, tons of bullshit. There are definitely circumstances and jurisdictions in which the boat wouldn't fall into personal insolvency. Moral of the story: pay for your shit and don't end up like Phil and you will never need to seriously ponder this issue]

 

[WeeblesWobble]

Does that happen? Sure in certain circumstances, will it happen to him? Nah probably not, usually such sales are for very large estates with lots of large items for sale such as cars and furniture where it's just easier to keep it in one place and have people come to you.

Actually this makes me think. Will Phil shill his wares to his viewers? He tried selling those statues already, but maybe he'll try to push the wheelchairs to buy his stuff if it gets auctioned. That would be something to see.

"The higher you guys can, uhhh, get those bids, the more it'll help me."

 

[Fareal]

Actually this makes me think. Will Phil shill his wares to his viewers? He tried selling those statues already, but maybe he'll try to push the wheelchairs to buy his stuff if it gets auctioned. That would be something to see.

Most places have a rule about disposals just prior to filing for bankruptcy being challengable/recoverable to prevent you dumping your assets into the hands of associates, thereby having no assets to forcibly sell, and then just casually buying them back.

 

[WeeblesWobble]

Most places have a rule about disposals just prior to filing for bankruptcy being challengable/recoverable to prevent you dumping your assets into the hands of associates, thereby having no assets to forcibly sell, and then just casually buying them back.

I meant trying to convince his fans to participate in any auctions they might have on his property. That would be some next level shit.

 

[James Smith]

That depends on the bankrupt's title to the boat, title saving clauses, blah blah, tons of bullshit. There are definitely circumstances and jurisdictions in which the boat wouldn't fall into personal insolvency. Moral of the story: pay for your shit and don't end up like Phil and you will never need to seriously ponder this issue

Very true. I'm not saying the court will sell the account, because I think that'd be insane, I'm just saying I think there's a possibility the court can just ignore the contract and if the company who runs the game doesn't like it they can argue that in court or just delete the account's valuables.

As for bidding, can you imagine them having to redo the auction because he convinces wheelchairs to fraud bid on stuff to up the selling price?

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

The classes he's taking aren't free are they? Don't they cost some token amount and more or less require an attorney referral after paying your attorney some token $500 or something to begin hiring them?

Yes, from what I've read. But, we're basing this all on Phil's word, and he didn't say anything about classes until a day after people were posting about said classes. It's also not like Phil is above wasting money.

I think Phil's main goal with the bankruptcy announcement was a last ditch hail mary to get another Emerald_7. He mentioned that excessively in the first hour. He's probably still hoping it comes. Thus, my bet is Phil has only thought about the bankruptcy option at this point, maybe saw a lawyer once about it, and is hoping to somehow weasel out.

 

[actually]

Yes, from what I've read. But, we're basing this all on Phil's word, and he didn't say anything about classes until a day after people were posting about said classes. It's also not like Phil is above wasting money.

I think Phil's main goal with the bankruptcy announcement was a last ditch hail mary to get another Emerald_7. He mentioned that excessively in the first hour. He's probably still hoping it comes. Thus, my bet is Phil has only thought about the bankruptcy option at this point, maybe saw a lawyer once about it, and is hoping to somehow weasel out.

That would be a weird gambit for him, though, given that he's been painting the bankruptcy as a minor inconvenience that's going to completely wash away his financial sins in like a year. He certainly kept emphasizing that he still expected money to be given, but that's standard business for him.

 

[Fareal]

As for bidding, can you imagine them having to redo the auction because he convinces wheelchairs to fraud bid on stuff to up the selling price?

I had to rate this DRINK because this is exactly the sort of half-cocked BS that either he or his stans would dream up. Christ

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Does that happen? Sure in certain circumstances, will it happen to him? Nah probably not, usually such sales are for very large estates with lots of large items for sale such as cars and furniture where it's just easier to keep it in one place and have people come to you.

I think it's more likely that an auditor will do a tour of the house, note items that could have value if sold, repossess those items and take them to either an auction lot for repossessed goods or a vendor for a direct sale. Either way, expect his goods to get lowballed.

I'm not sure they do in house auctions unless the house itself is also up for auction, mostly because itd be fucking weird and leave the indebted resident the opportunity to fuck with things. I could absolutely see phil following people through the house trying to upsell everything for 3/4 times their actual value only for nothing to get sold. Bugged auction mechanics dood, nothing he could do.

 

[wabbits]

What Might Cause the Trustee to Do an Inspection?

Any number of things can raise suspicion, such as:

• overvaluing or undervaluing property in the schedules
• the trustee received calls or letters from your ex-spouse, ex-friend, or a creditor which indicate that you own more property than you listed
• you own an expensive house but have listed little or no furniture and electronics, or
• your schedules list excessive amounts of credit card debt with little or no property to show for it.

How Will the Inspection Take Place?

The only requirement is that the trustee must make prior arrangements with you to conduct the inspection. Courts have determined that it’s not permissible for a trustee to show up unannounced to demand a surprise inspection of the contents of your house. The trustee can do the inspection personally but it’s more likely that a representative or an appraiser will inspect the property. Often they will take photographs or video as part of the process.

Can the Trustee Take Property Without My Consent?

The trustee cannot just take things from your home if there is a disagreement with you on whether it’s part of the bankruptcy estate. If you have claimed the items as exempt, the trustee must object to the exemptions and have the matter determined by the court. If you haven’t claimed the property as exempt and believe that there’s some valid reason why it shouldn’t be taken by the trustee, either you or the trustee can bring the matter before the court. In most instances, the trustee would file a motion to compel (force) the turnover of the property.

There aren’t many valid reasons that would support not turning over assets that you didn’t claim as exempt. If you’re in this situation, you should check with an experienced bankruptcy attorney in your area. There could be serious ramifications if you refuse to turn over the property.

Will the Bankruptcy Trustee Come to My Home to Collect Property?

You'll know if the bankruptcy trustee is coming for a visit because bankruptcy law requires the trustee to follow certain procedures before inspecting or taking your property.

www.nolo.com

 

[actually]

"your schedules list excessive amounts of credit card debt with little or no property to show for it"


But my Hulk Hogan is maxxed 4 stars, DOOD!