Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[A Detachable Penis]

... anyone have more actual info about the UK hospital's position? Because unless she was declared brain dead, why wouldnt they wait to see if she pulled out of the coma?

 

[Freya]

"recovering"

Fucking lifesite news

 

[A Detachable Penis]

"recovering"

Fucking lifesite news

Well, if any of those articles were truthful (which I am always skeptical of), coming out of a coma is 'recovering'. The parents describe what would be a minimally conscious state, specifically eye-tracking, which is not present in coma (obviously) nor a vegetative state.

However, the parents could be mistaking random eye-movements as tracking, but there's been plenty of cases of parents noticing things that later cause doctors to investigate and declare the patient minimally conscious instead of vegetative. Parents tend to be there all the time, simple as that. Sometimes they are overly optimistic and mistaken, like in Terri Schiavo's case, and other times they are correct.

It would also be pretty retarded to mistake random movements for tracking, however. They are claiming she tracks movement across a room, which would be fairly observable and consistent.

Theres also far better outcomes for minimally conscious than vegetative in that there is a fair chance they will come out of it too.

But all of that assumes the articles are being truthful.

If even slight amounts of that are true, that the kid emerged from the coma at all, bodes ill for the UK hospital imo. Most people would want to wait on a kiddo as their brains are resilient. The parents were adamant the damage wasn't catastrophic. Why not wait?

 

[AnOminous]

If even slight amounts of that are true, that the kid emerged from the coma at all, bodes ill for the UK hospital imo. Most people would want to wait on a kiddo as their brains are resilient. The parents were adamant the damage wasn't catastrophic. Why not wait?

Frankly if they were in the U.S. and the hospital was saying the same thing, I'd think the family was just making shit up because they knew what to say to make it look like they had a claim of a minimally conscious state. But I trust the UK about as much as China these days.

 

[AlexJonesGotMePregnant]

Frankly if they were in the U.S. and the hospital was saying the same thing, I'd think the family was just making shit up because they knew what to say to make it look like they had a claim of a minimally conscious state. But I trust the UK about as much as China these days.

I'm sure there are plenty of refugees who would make great use of that kid's organs, the UK government is just trying to be more efficient

 

[eternal dog mongler]

it's very hard on the staff, to torture someone medically this way. reviving a patient is brutal. bones break, lungs are shredded, the heart is bruised. it's a lot of pain, resuscitation is not a pleasant experience and if those injuries can't heal between episodes it's constant pain.

That's why so many people who work in medicine have DNRs and advance directives. Only about 20% of the people who code in emergency ever make it out of the hospital. And then they're usually discharged to rehab. You may be alive, but your life is very different now in ways that you never expected.

If you find me at the bottom of the stairs minimally responsive, carry me up and throw me back down again.

 

[RanchRanchLover]

"Tafida’s parents argued that according to Islamic law, only God could decide to end their daughter’s life"
But modern medicine has no role at all. That's grand 'REMOVE THE VENTILATOR THEN'.

 

[MiniMuffin]

Some Orthodox Jews also have religious objections to pulling the plug. In 2008 there was the case of Motl Brody, a twelve-year-old Haredi Jewish boy with a very aggressive form of brain cancer. After only a few months of treatment he was declared brain dead.

The hospital wanted to take him off the ventilator but the family objected. Per the article:

“He became ill just a few months ago, received treatment, but never awakened from surgery. Last week, doctors pronounced him dead, saying there is no activity in any portion of his brain. But Motl's heart is still beating, and his family, who are observant Orthodox Jews, say that according to their faith, that means he's still alive.”

Per their lawyer, as quoted in this article (which also has a photo of Motl pre-cancer), Motl’s family understood that he would not recover. They didn’t expect him to wake up or anything. But according to their religion, to quote The Princess Bride, he was only MOSTLY dead.

Neither the family nor the hospital was prepared to budge on this matter and they were about to take it to court, but like the day before the hearing, nature intervened and Motl’s heart finally stopped, eleven days after he was put on life support.

One of the things the articles about Motl talked about was the scarcity of intensive-care beds for children, and how he was taking a bed that could have been given to another child. People are often discharged from intensive care to rehab facilities, but one article on Motl’s case said a rehab facility wouldn’t accept a patient in his condition because those places are designed to help patients recover, and Motl had no chance of recovery. He’d be wasting a bed there as much As he was in intensive care.

 

[Freya]

Some Orthodox Jews also have religious objections to pulling the plug. In 2008 there was the case of Motl Brody, a twelve-year-old Haredi Jewish boy with a very aggressive form of brain cancer. After only a few months of treatment he was declared brain dead.

The hospital wanted to take him off the ventilator but the family objected. Per the article:

“He became ill just a few months ago, received treatment, but never awakened from surgery. Last week, doctors pronounced him dead, saying there is no activity in any portion of his brain. But Motl's heart is still beating, and his family, who are observant Orthodox Jews, say that according to their faith, that means he's still alive.”

Per their lawyer, as quoted in this article (which also has a photo of Motl pre-cancer), Motl’s family understood that he would not recover. They didn’t expect him to wake up or anything. But according to their religion, to quote The Princess Bride, he was only MOSTLY dead.

Neither the family nor the hospital was prepared to budge on this matter and they were about to take it to court, but like the day before the hearing, nature intervened and Motl’s heart finally stopped, eleven days after he was put on life support.

One of the things the articles about Motl talked about was the scarcity of intensive-care beds for children, and how he was taking a bed that could have been given to another child. People are often discharged from intensive care to rehab facilities, but one article on Motl’s case said a rehab facility wouldn’t accept a patient in his condition because those places are designed to help patients recover, and Motl had no chance of recovery. He’d be wasting a bed there as much As he was in intensive care.

Does no one ever realize the heart is only beating because it's been forced to?

 

[Weaverwild]

Orthodox Jews are the reason for the laws in New Jersey that allow for continued care for brain dead patients. It's a pretty big issue with these Orthodox families seeking religious advice and being told their family member is still alive according to God. I can't get too mad at the parents in cases like this where they know the kid isn't going to get better, but their religious leader is telling them pulling the plug is murder. At least they seemed to be waiting for the kid's heart to stop and not parading his corpse around like he would wake up any minute.

 

[MiniMuffin]

I can't get too mad at the parents in cases like this where they know the kid isn't going to get better, but their religious leader is telling them pulling the plug is murder. At least they seemed to be waiting for the kid's heart to stop and not parading his corpse around like he would wake up any minute.

Yeah Motl’s parents didn’t appear to be insane, just obedient to the rules of their religion and community.

I wish they would kind of update things. Their definition of death apparently goes back to what some fifth century rabbis thought. “Breathing + heartbeat = alive” was a perfectly reasonable conclusion under the circumstances and reflected the extent of medical knowledge at the time and for many centuries afterwards. But now medicine and scientific knowledge has advanced. And religion, as usual, lags behind.

 

[Free the Pedos]

Interestingly, it's worth noting that there's a significant number of Orthodox rabbis who believe that brain death = actual death. I imagine their congregants don't end up in the news because they're advised to pull the plug at brain death.

 

[A Detachable Penis]

At least they're trying to follow and make sense of their religion. Meanwhile we got Christian's claiming that potato speds with no brain are gods gift.

Hell nah, at least claim Satan did it.

 

[John Merston]

At least they're trying to follow and make sense of their religion. Meanwhile we got Christian's claiming that potato speds with no brain are gods gift.

Hell nah, at least claim Satan did it.

Now, my Bible-fu is pretty rusty, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say anywhere that Satan has that kind of power.

 

[A Detachable Penis]

Now, my Bible-fu is pretty rusty, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say anywhere that Satan has that kind of power.

The alternative is saying its God's will and yeeting that fetus.

 

[SevenEightNine]

That's why so many people who work in medicine have DNRs and advance directives. Only about 20% of the people who code in emergency ever make it out of the hospital. And then they're usually discharged to rehab. You may be alive, but your life is very different now in ways that you never expected.

If you find me at the bottom of the stairs minimally responsive, carry me up and throw me back down again.

There's a doctor in my region who is well known for his routine disregard for DNRs. Multiple professionals (MD and PhD Psych) have attested to this.

I think it is one of the most horrific abuses of power I have ever heard about, and I can't believe that there isn't a good way to stop him.

 

[cuddle striker]

There's a doctor in my region who is well known for his routine disregard for DNRs. Multiple professionals (MD and PhD Psych) have attested to this.

I think it is one of the most horrific abuses of power I have ever heard about, and I can't believe that there isn't a good way to stop him.

a lawsuit or ten. every time, his insurance will go up.

 

[heavycream]

Tafida Raqeeb suffered a traumatic brain injury in February 2019

I can't find a consistent or comprehensive account for what exactly is wrong with her beyond the generic 'TBI', but the fact that she is, as the media puts it, 'awake' now and having a breathing tube inserted is a good sign that she will not slip into a persistent vegetative state (PVS)/coma or brain death. That is provided that she doesn't experience knock on neurological damage (like seizures/strokes etc) caused by scar tissue around the lesion site. This is a high risk in paediatric brain injury cases and she may have to get future surgery to remove this scarified tissue if it hasn't been done already. From photographs she seems to be relatively alert and aware (edit: not sure how old those photos are).

Incidentally, when patients in PVS are kept on mechanical ventilation and life support for extended periods of time their brains atrophy and eventually calcify, I recall reading about one post-mortem study in which the neurologist noted that bits of liquefied brain nervous tissue could be found floating down the spinal column after chronic life support. I wonder if that's why so many warrior moms don't want to see their child's MRI.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

There's a doctor in my region who is well known for his routine disregard for DNRs. Multiple professionals (MD and PhD Psych) have attested to this.

I think it is one of the most horrific abuses of power I have ever heard about, and I can't believe that there isn't a good way to stop him.

The whole damn circus shows up whenever someone codes (like 5-7 people) so I'm surprised nobody has reported him to the hospital ethics committee yet. End-of-life issues are mostly what they deal with.

It is, however, fairly common for providers to refuse to honor DNR status if someone on the medical team makes an error that causes the patient to code. I can't imagine he'd be running into this little ethical dilemma that often though.

 

[SevenEightNine]

The whole damn circus shows up whenever someone codes (like 5-7 people) so I'm surprised nobody has reported him to the hospital ethics committee yet. End-of-life issues are mostly what they deal with.

It is, however, fairly common for providers to refuse to honor DNR status if someone on the medical team makes an error that causes the patient to code. I can't imagine he'd be running into this little ethical dilemma that often though.

He's a bully and in a leadership position.