Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why do these "I fucking love science" idiots act like people are incapable of worrying about multiple things at once? Humans have a complex brain that handles worries over millions of things everyday. Use your complex brain and be concerned about all these illnesses.

It's not hard to remember the symptoms and methods of prevention for multiple ailments if you are of average intelligence.
Because it's hedge magic for cube dwellers and other members of the service economy, not an honest attempt at critical thought. This is the same mechanism by which skepticism degenerated into a brand. Bereft of faith, people will still look for means of telling themselves (and others) that they're one of the elect.
 
Do any other viruses align with specific sequences or just HIV? Are these sequences unique to just HIV or are they present in other viruses?
Viruses mutate very quickly and it's not impossible for them to share genetic sequences. H1N1 for example has an unusual mix of genes from different types of influenza.
 
Y7CNnHsVbR.png

Look guys, I know you like the dopamine but please, just calm down
 
I mean, its a weird bird all around.
it is. I would be completely unsurprised if it was engineered. And be even less surprised if it was a natural sample being studied and accidentally let loose. It’s not possible to say definitively though, I think you’re right in that it’ll never be fully explained. Anyone who knows will be disposed of fairly fast unless they’re high up enough
If it’s natural, then it’s a sobering reminder of how nature can create plagues. If it’s engineered, it’s basically the perfect immune evading respiratory illness.
 
1580510053045.png



Turns out folks are finding new ways to spread the corona
Not to derail the thread, but chinese coomers are on the rise lately. The fever is making them lose their minds.
 
Everytime I look at this thread it grows quicker than the coronavirus. At least the death count is lower that the recovery
count for now.

I think out of all of this, this is my favorite video that has been spread online to fuck with people's worries.
 
View attachment 1123188
The zuck sucks a cock
Hey, neat!

Maybe one of those pro-social media sycophants from earlier in the thread could come remind us again how it helps the little guy get important information out that gov'ts may not want spread around and is immune to media corruption or gov't interference.

C'mon, guys, sing those praises! Guys?
 
I don’t... why? Also, is this Corona a real threat? Or is it only killing the weak and elderly?
A virus can be primarily killing the weak & elderly and still be a real threat. Just look at what Wuhan has devolved to. If a virus is especially proliferous, the healthcare system can be overwhelmed and many people will die.
 
it is. I would be completely unsurprised if it was engineered. And be even less surprised if it was a natural sample being studied and accidentally let loose. It’s not possible to say definitively though, I think you’re right in that it’ll never be fully explained. Anyone who knows will be disposed of fairly fast unless they’re high up enough
If it’s natural, then it’s a sobering reminder of how nature can create plagues. If it’s engineered, it’s basically the perfect immune evading respiratory illness.

Here is what makes this whole "It's natural" argument fishy to me. Note how categorically this particular human strain the one that is active now is sandwiched in-between many other bat virus families. It's strange for it to be where the red outline is and not in a family near the family near the 86 on the left. On the right one would expect it to be below the 100 mark. Shit looks like a tweaked bat virus.

Capture.PNG
 
Here's an article that you should all enjoy. I actually agree that there should some level of stoicism in the face of reality of periodic emergence of novel infectious diseases. But it's mixed with a good deal of bullshit.

1. "The second response was to see the outbreak as a verdict on human failings; divine judgement has gradually been replaced by political miscalculation" - It was a political miscalculation, the CCP covered up it until spread all over the place. Anybody who isn't a CCP shill knows this.
2. "International conservation and animal welfare organizations are using the outbreak to moralize about the traditional Chinese practice of eating a wider range of animal species than people of European heritage consider acceptable. Although wildlife markets are seen as a likely point for viruses to cross from animal to human hosts, as in Wuhan, they are a long-established part of Chinese food culture." - I don't doubt it is part of the culture. It is also, scientifically provably, a great way to transmit diseases, both from humans to animals and between humans. I mean you could argue that the right to own firearms in "long-established part of American culture", but that shouldn't stop anybody saying "hey, this is killing and hurting to many people, we ought change this."
3. "The outbreak is also the basis of a critique of the authoritarian nature of the Chinese state. Some of the online videos making implausible claims about infections and death rates are clearly being produced by political opponents to further their own agendas." - Okay, maybe some people are doing that, but lot of sensible people are calling bullshit on the regime, because it is a proven pathological liar, even beyond the normal lies of governments everywhere. Remember, this is a regime that fired an engineer who warned that a dam's structural problems (for being a “right-wing opportunist"), which subsequently failed and killed 230 000 people and then covered it up for 30 years. Anybody who trusts the CCP is either a useful idiot or a shill.
4. "Perhaps they should spend more time communicating that the coronavirus may be just another virus, broadly comparable in risk to a bad seasonal influenza or, at worst the 1918 influenza pandemic, that will circulate in human populations for a number of years." -- We can handle the (season) flu, we know jack about this new virus. Also, any event that could kill like 1918 influenza pandemic should also be grounds for a mass mobilization to keep the causalities down.

---

We Should Deescalate the War on the Coronavirus
Fear, finger-pointing, and militaristic action against the virus are unproductive. We may be better off adjusting to a new normal of periodic outbreaks.
Robert Dingwall (@rwjdingwall) is a consulting sociologist and part-time professor of sociology at Nottingham Trent University, Nottingham, UK.

The immediate reaction to the emergence of a novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in Wuhan, China, has focused on its challenges to the biomedical sciences. But the new infection is at least as big a challenge to the social sciences. If we continue to neglect this, there is a serious danger that we end up with mistaken national and international policies that do more harm than good.
Almost 30 years ago, Philip Strong, the founder of the sociological study of epidemic infectious diseases, observed that any new infection prompted three epidemics: of fear, then moralization, then action. Strong was writing in the context of HIV/AIDS, but he based his model on studies that went back to Europe’s Black Death in the 14th century . Whenever new infections emerged, the first response was invariably fear that they’d become an existential threat to humanity. We are all going to die. The second response was to see the outbreak as a verdict on human failings; divine judgement has gradually been replaced by political miscalculation. The third response was to engage in action, however pointless, intended to “do something” about the threat.

The responses to the coronavirus devoutly follow this pattern. At this stage, some eight weeks into the outbreak, there is still a good deal of uncertainty: A clear picture of the risks may not be available for another couple of weeks, when the virus’s incubation period and mode of transmission are better understood. However, it is already reasonably apparent that the virus is a relatively mild infection for most, potentially serious in a small proportion of cases and fatal in a few cases, particularly where the victim is already in poor health. Beyond the global fear, we are also seeing Strong’s second and third epidemics. International conservation and animal welfare organizations are using the outbreak to moralize about the traditional Chinese practice of eating a wider range of animal species than people of European heritage consider acceptable. Although wildlife markets are seen as a likely point for viruses to cross from animal to human hosts, as in Wuhan, they are a long-established part of Chinese food culture.

The outbreak is also the basis of a critique of the authoritarian nature of the Chinese state. Some of the online videos making implausible claims about infections and death rates are clearly being produced by political opponents to further their own agendas.
Then there are the demands for action—any action—to show that something is being done. The border health checks that have been introduced around the globe have at best a 20 percent chance of detecting an infected person. Face masks make little difference to the chances of picking up the infection in ordinary social interaction; the virus is so small that it goes through the fabric or round the edges.
As countless media outlets have characterized it, governments around the world have declared “war” on the coronavirus. China “battles the outbreak” (Al-Jazeera) of a “killer virus” (Daily Mail) “raging across” (CNBC) the country. The language of combat justifies measures of state security. Wuhan is in “lockdown” (BBC) as the authorities undertake the “screening from hell” (Foreign Policy) to “target” cases. The intrusive measures originally introduced to deter terrorism are supplemented by authoritarian interventions aimed at biosecurity, like compulsory temperature screening or internment in quarantine facilities. Within China, President Xi Jinping is concerned that the Party flag should "fly high at the frontline of the battleground" (China Daily).
Although it is still early for a definitive view, the challenge to governments and international organizations may not be the militaristic one of fighting a war against the virus but in helping people adjust to a “new normal.” Perhaps they should spend more time communicating that the coronavirus may be just another virus, broadly comparable in risk to a bad seasonal influenza or, at worst the 1918 influenza pandemic, that will circulate in human populations for a number of years. Eventually, there will be a vaccine and reasonably effective therapies. This is not good news, but it is news that we should be able to live with. People are being spooked by the novelty rather than the severity of the infection.

As sociologists, we can help to understand this. As Strong pointed out, new infectious diseases disrupt our sense of order, trust, and stability. In fact, of course, they are out there all the time. Viruses do not distinguish between animals and humans. A random mutation that allows a virus to cross the species barrier, if it successfully adapts, simply enlarges the pool of potential hosts. Once established, further mutations are likely to stabilize the accommodation, generally in the direction of reducing the damage to the host. Natural selection works against mutations that kill the host before they can be passed on. These processes have been going on for as long as humans, animals, and viruses have coexisted and coevolved. We are simply noticing them more quickly, although increasing interactions between humans and wildlife, a result of pressures on habitats, are creating new opportunities for viruses to move between species. Such exchanges are, however, no different in principle from the risks of large-scale pig farming: Intensive biosecurity is as much to prevent the pigs acquiring viruses from humans as to protect humans from porcine viruses.
Humans deal very badly with the idea of chance and contingency. We lead increasingly ordered and regimented lives. We take stability for granted, assuming one day will be much the same as the next. Some natural events are common enough to have management plans that rapidly reimpose order on chaos: Hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and blizzards may not be wholly predictable but occur frequently enough that we’ve developed largely predictable relief responses. New infectious diseases come out of the blue, each with its own idiosyncrasies that militate against detailed advance planning. Public health agencies take down a playbook from the last event and try to improvise around it. They are, though, constantly battling against the three societal epidemics and the expectations that nature can be boxed and controlled.
In the 1970s the cultural critic Ivan Illich identified medical hubris as a key problem for modern societies. Believing that nature could be bent to our will, we had forgotten how to live with nature, and that disease, disability, and death are part of the human condition. This does not mean we have to accept these challenges passively or that we should not seek to manage them, but we also have to understand that they are to some degree unavoidable. Newly emerging infections—HIV, Ebola, SARS, MERS, Zika, coronavirus—remind us of the limits of biomedical science. We have brought some under human control, but others continue to coexist with us, much as they have for millennia.
The problem with the coronavirus is that we are not yet absolutely sure whether it is more like SARS, highly contagious and lethal, or like seasonal influenza, contagious and unpleasant but rarely fatal. Right now it appears to be closer to influenza (which is from a different family of viruses). If this continues to be the case, then we must question whether waging a full-scale war on the disease is really the best thing to be doing. Military language encourages the illusion that we can bring evolution under human control: Wars are to be won. The risks of death or serious illness from the coronavirus currently seem to be broadly comparable to those that we accept every year as a result of influenza. It’s not desirable if you are in a vulnerable population group, but it’s better than total disruption of your usual health care in search of an unachievable victory. Would it be less damaging to social and economic life to accept that most people are quite likely to become mildly infected by the coronavirus, and that this will, in itself, reduce the possibilities for transmission as more people develop antibodies, and that biomedical science will eventually develop vaccines and therapies, much as happened with HIV?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

So, AsapSCIENCE mentions antibiotic resistant disease in America as if it's supposed to make Chinese wet markets any less of a freak show. Problem is, IIRC, the Chinese LOVE administering antibiotic to anything they can. There was a story almost a decade back at this point where China wiped out a bunch of their fisheries by creating antibiotic resistant strain of some disease that affects fish by over administering antibiotics.
I guess that's the faggot whose video was suggested to me on YouTube a couple of days ago?

Get fucked cunt. Despite what you tell me, the virus originated in China. End of.

That's not racist, it's a fact. (What about mad cow?), he squeals?

Yeah, guess what? Brits are still 'discriminated' against because of that. Just visit a blood bank. It's one of the questions.

Is that 'discrimination' racist?
 
4. "Perhaps they should spend more time communicating that the coronavirus may be just another virus, broadly comparable in risk to a bad seasonal influenza or, at worst the 1918 influenza pandemic, that will circulate in human populations for a number of years." -- We can handle the (season) flu, we know jack about this new virus. Also, any event that could kill like 1918 influenza pandemic should also be grounds for a mass mobilization to keep the causalities down.
Fuck no. We should be communicating that we don’t know enough about it, that it’s possible it could go one of several ways, and that people should be calm but watchful for new information.
We do NOT serve people well by yammering on about racism or telling them everything is fine. Plagues don’t care about our borders, they care about quarantine lines. Anyone who has been in the area of infection needs quarantining.
These SJW types might be about to get a lesson in how Nature Doesn’t Care About Your Feelings.
 
Here is what makes this whole "It's natural" argument fishy to me. Note how categorically this particular human strain the one that is active now is sandwiched in-between many other bat virus families. It's strange for it to be where the red outline is and not in a family near the family near the 86 on the left. On the right one would expect it to be below the 100 mark. Shit looks like a tweaked bat virus.

View attachment 1124319
I don't see what's weird about this.
The "sandwiched in-between" part isn't really important. This tree is just saying that they all have a common ancestor higher up in the tree. Not unusual that it's surrounded by other bat viruses, because this virus likely did come from bats. So the ancestor of this virus in bats also evolved into the other bat viruses shown here. Pretty much what you'd expect, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

I'm doing a phylogenetic analysis on the side when I can, trying to look now specifically at haplotype blocks because it looks like there's a good amount of run-of-the-mill tree diagrams already. Wish I could convince my PI to let us take this topic on as a project so the effort wouldn't be wasted, but we mainly do cancer and congenital disease so I'd need a collaborator or something :\
 
1580513149279.png




 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back