Why Incels are the losers in the age of Tinder - Sympathy For the Sperginity

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Archive is fucking shit
As a society we still judge men who don’t have sex as failures
BY James Bloodworth



In the past year or so the word ‘Incel’ has become a ubiquitous online insult. Short for Involuntary Celibate, it was popularised by men who appropriated the label for themselves. The Incel community is overwhelmingly male (and growing) and to be an Incel (technically at least) is to have not had sex for six months or more.


As so the word has gradually crept into the vocabulary of every internet troll — partly I suspect because we still judge people by how much sex they have, or not in this case. We still view men who don’t have sex as failures in some way.


Incels are therefore an easy target. For men, calling someone an Incel implies something positive — a certain sexual abundance — about one’s own existence. For women it has begun to function as a putdown that ruthlessly dismisses unworthy suitors while simultaneously expelling them from the community of the good as misogynistic and creepy.


In the past decade there has been a three-fold increase in the number of men who have not had sex in the past year. In 2018 the Southern Poverty Law Centre added Incels to their ‘Hate Map’, describing them as “part of the online male supremacist eco-system”. Countless articles have appeared in the media equating inceldom with “toxic masculinity”, misogyny and violence. Most begin from the assumption that Incel ideology, so far as it exists, is a product of men’s domination over women. It is a backlash against feminism; the whingeing of men who have been taught by the tyrannical patriarchy to believe they are entitled to ownership of women’s bodies.


There is invariably some truth to this. The rise of the online ‘Manosphere’ is a reassertion by men of traditional gender roles from which they benefitted immensely. The most notorious Incels, who have gone on murderous rampages, have indeed been narcissistic and entitled men. Elliot Rodger was a 22-year-old Incel who murdered seven people in Isla Vista, California, in 2014. Rodger epitomised entitled masculinity. Shortly before Rodger carried about the massacre, Dale Launer, a friend of Rodger’s father, gave the boy some not terrible advice for building relationships with women on his college campus. Rodger’s response is revealing. As Launer recounted to the BBC:

“As I told him, ‘When you see a woman next time you’re on campus and you like her hair or sunglasses, just pay her a compliment.’ I told him, ‘It’s a freebie, something in passing, you’re not trying to make conversation. Keep walking, don’t make any long eye contact, just give the free compliment.’ The idea being you might make a friend if you make someone feel good.


“I said to Elliot, ‘In the next few weeks — if you see them they’ll likely give you a smile — and you can smile back and eventually turn this into chit-chat.’


“I got in touch with him a few weeks later and asked if he did it. He said ‘no’. And when asked why not, he said, ‘Why do I have to compliment them? Why don’t they compliment me?’” [emphasis mine]

Rodger felt superior to others and referred to a “Day of Retribution” when he would kill those he was envious of — ‘Chads’, men who sleep with lots of women, and ‘Staceys’, feminine and attractive — as well as those who did not see the value he believed he possessed. He probably had a narcissistic personality disorder.


However Rodger was an outlier. Most Incels are non-violent and use the forums they frequent as a support group, a place to vent — often toxically — against a society which they feel has rejected them (at least when it comes to intimacy). It is this which inceldom is largely concerned with: intimacy rather than sex. Most have given up on dating entirely. Some embrace an ideology they call the Black Pill — a spin-off the red and blue pills from The Matrix — which contains misogynistic tenets but adherence to which is not a requirement to be an Incel. The Blue Pill is the existing state of blissful ignorance; the Red Pill seeks to understand the system and manipulate it to its advantage; those who take the Black Pill accept the Red Pill’s tenets about women and society but resign themselves to a life of frustration and alienation.

Black pill ideology is often misogynistic and occasionally deadly. According to the Black Pill women are shallow and driven entirely by hypergamy — that’s to say the desire to hook up with a man of superior status to themselves whether in terms of looks, money or power. As with several other Black Pill assumptions there is an element of truth to this: women do tend to date “up”. However the Black Pill takes this concept to its deterministic absolute: on the forums Incels obsess over height and looks as if nobody who isn’t 6ft 4in with a six pack ever gets a date.


This is undoubtedly a convenient rationalisation for some. It’s easier to sit at home on the internet and lament the callousness and superficiality of wider society than it is to begin the long and arduous process required to become a more attractive man.


But the dating scene of 2020 is also radically different to the dating scene of twenty years ago, and this is a factor behind the growing number of Incels. The decline of traditional marriage has played a part. In the past there was greater societal pressure on women to ‘settle’ with men who they may not have been in love with or even sexually attracted to. The concept of arranged marriage, still popular in eastern cultures, where people pair up on the basis of suitability, is significantly different to our modern, Hollywood-style conception of idealised pairing on the basis of sexual attraction and finding ‘The One’.


Women are the sexual selectors on modern dating apps, where men are abundant and therefore of lower sexual market value (SMV). A friend and I ran an experiment on Tinder last year where we set up a profile purporting to be an attractive woman. In less than 24-hours the profile ran up over 2,000 matches. Tinder and similar apps are effective for the stereotypically good looking male. But the majority of men make do with few matches, often with women they are not attracted to. A recent study of Tinder found that “the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men”.


As I recently noted for UnHerd, our promiscuous culture bends toward the Pareto principle, also known as the 80/20 rule whereby 20% of men date 80% of women. I wrote: “Women compete over the most desirable men, while the rest are increasingly turning towards porn and — before long, no doubt — sex robots.”


The sexual revolution and the gradual erosion of the pressure to settle down (what Jordan Peterson has referred to as “socially enforced monogamy”) has encouraged women (quite reasonably) to seek out the best partners for themselves. Some men refuse to reconcile themselves to this new reality. Others struggle in a digital dating environment where superficial qualities are prized to an extent that was not true in the past. In the world of online dating, which is how 40% of couples in the United States meet, looks, height and social status are usually pre-requisites for matching with someone at all.


Offline, many Incels lack the basic social skills required to navigate relations with the opposite sex. According to an internal poll carried out on the website Incels.co, 26% of users of the forum said they had some form of autism. Flirting, which requires an innate understanding of nuanced sub-communications and unspoken sexual tension, does not come naturally to these men.


Moreover, mainstream dating advice for men is useless at the best of times and consists largely of feel-good bromides (often written by women) extolling men to ‘just be yourself’ or to let ‘fate’ take care of it. Real-life dating coaching, which takes clients out into bars and clubs in order to learn how to interact with women in a non-platonic way, is laughed at by the mainstream and dominated by charlatans calling themselves ‘pickup artists’.


Inceldom touches a nerve in wider society, which I suspect is why we have few conversations about it. All of us treat people differently on the basis of their physical appearance, however altruistic we may believe ourselves to be. As a recent article in Vice, which drew on a comprehensive body of research, noted: “Attractive people are generally assumed to be more intelligent, more trustworthy, and have better social skills.”


We shy away from talking honestly about this because to do so would be to acknowledge that there are some areas where true ‘equality’ — the ideal we strive for in most areas of political life — is unattainable when it comes to hooking up. The topic of sex and dating is already a minefield where egos swim amidst the unspoken and adversarial mating strategies deployed by men and women. There is very little altruism and equality when it comes to finding a mate. The sexual act is discriminatory by definition.


And it is leaving increasing numbers of men on the scrapheap. Some identify ideologically as Incels out of frustration. Some out of entitlement. Many seek to blame women’s supposedly unrealistic standards for their inability to form an intimate relationship. For others the situation is still more complex.


Incels arguably have something in common with the Japanese hikikomori, defined by Japan’s Health, Labour and Welfare Ministry as those who have “remained isolated at home for at least six consecutive months without going to school or work, and rarely interact with people from outside their immediate family”. Japan has around one million hikikomori.


Inceldom fits within a broader trend towards alienation and reclusive behaviour in modern societies, fostered by technology, changing dating preferences and — among other things — easy access to pornography. We don’t have our own hikikomori problem in the west just yet, but Incels are a growing phenomenon that society would do well to better understand — even if that is less satisfying than throwing the word around as an online insult.
 
Casual sex is pretty nice tbh
For who? It's definitely nice for the 20% of guys fucking 80% of women. But are those 80% of women happy with being a casual hook up? Will they be happy when they are in they become the bottom 20% of women?

I'll add a caveat for the truly unfortunate snake eyes: it's truly hard to be completely hopeless. A boy born without any limbs can grow up into this:

iu


Now, he's somewhat famous as a Christian preacher, and he's not that bad looking beyond his deformities, but he had to work for those positive qualities. I would bet my left kidney that 95% of incels with genuine bad luck still had it better than this guy.

So, yes, some people are born with the cards stacked against them. It's possible to help most, if not, all of them, with enough care and persistence. You'd have to be as autistic and unrepentant as Chris Chan to be a lost cause, and even then... Chris Chan has his obsessive stalkers.
I don't know who he is, but if what you say is true, he is an outlier. "Hot Christian woman that wants to have babies and take care of her disabled husband" is not what modern woman are going for, and are looked down on in feminist ideology.
 
To be fair, as much social pressure as there is around virginity, most guys are going insane for pussy in their teens. I don't think I was driven so much by being perceived as a virgin as I was by raging hormones.
This is true. It's been a while since I've been a teenager so I've kind of forgotten about that. Still, the importance we place on it is insane. And once you actually do lose it, you're like...that's it?

It's funny how much it's built up as this big thing but once you get to it, you were expecting more. At least that's how I felt.
 
Twenty years ago, it was no doubt quite difficult for the socially awkward to find a partner. Now it's almost impossible, largely due to online dating and Tinder. To be fair though, the incel community does tend to get a lot of autists, because nobody is going to be interested in dating a guy with autism, no matter his other features. It's just not a thing.

Sure there are exceptions and extreme outliers, but hypergamy and the 80-20 rule do hold weight. Plus no one wants sperg offspring largely because natural selection, but that's a story for another day.

That being said, while the incel community is a magnet for some truly awful people, they do raise some valid points. It's easier to blame "femoids" and "Chads" for everything than it is to do legitimate research.

To be fair though, society does want us all to be homogeneous genderless global citizens/consumers of product/in debt forever/whatever the fuck. And to throw our money at Twitch thots because "equality for women" or some shit.

This is true. It's been a while since I've been a teenager so I've kind of forgotten about that. Still, the importance we place on it is insane. And once you actually do lose it, you're like...that's it?

It's funny how much it's built up as this big thing but once you get to it, you were expecting more. At least that's how I felt.

That would be my advice to any male offspring of mine. Lose your virginity as soon as possible, just get it out of the way ASAP. The sooner that monkey is off your back, the better.
 
It can be entertaining, though it can lose its charm. Sometimes it just isn't worth the hassle to seduce yet another woman for yet another one night stand.

Sex for the purpose of procreation done with love and handholding is objectively better anyways.
Not planning on kids, at least not at the moment.
Casual sex with my wife is pretty nice.
 
This sounds like faggot mentality. Who gives a fuck if girl compliments you. Girl that has crush on you will never reveal their hands fully until shit is aligned properly for them. If you move in too early you get fucked because you are just a creep.

Keep building value for yourself and justify your being. If she likes it, she will make it known for you and you make the move afterwards.

So basically Justify your value as a tool ?. Honestly i wonder how this might be impacted by Sexual AIs, i predict they will soon forbid them because it means that Womens value will decrease which will piss of feminists, it will piss of neoliberals as they no longer have the manpower for their wars and exploiation and with no need to materially please women they wont be as driven to work as hard to make profit for their neoliberal masters, and nu right is going to cry something about morality and traditional family. still for the moment those REEEEEEEs will be very amusing to witness.
 
Sorry, but this line:

"Inceldom fits within a broader trend towards alienation and reclusive behaviour in modern societies, fostered by technology, changing dating preferences and — among other things — easy access to pornography."

If we rewind time by about 100-200 years, "inceldom" isn't even a thing because there were different mating strategies (courting, arranged marriage, etc), that provided a more one-to-one mapping of our population. It's just a tiny bit strange to me that this is completely glossed over in these sorts of discussions. No, it's not a divergence in values, it's just "technology".

Easy access to pornography of every variety doesn't cause "incels" but it does cause people who might otherwise bother overcoming their social inadequacies to say fuck it and just not bother going outside. This isn't really incels, though, who are utterly obsessed with their inability to get laid and place an inordinate degree of importance on it.

These would be hikikomori and MGTOW types, and others who just decided the trade-off of putting up with women's bullshit isn't worth it for what they have to offer.

In my very brief dive into the world of 'incels', I have categorized them like so.
  • Snake Eyes
    • The true losers of the genetic lottery. The so-called genetic dead end. These people are the ones you feel truly sorry for. Either their looks, social skills, intelligence and charisma has been so thoroughly destroyed by the roll of fate, they are helplessly fucked. While in the past they could get factory jobs or menial labor to get a woman, this is no longer possible. These are the ones where pretty much everything is out of their control and they cannot function. This typically goes beyond women and into the social sphere, relating to education, employment and training. These are the ones that really need the most help, but probably won't get it because they're lumped into the worst, which come after the next.

These are the only ones I feel any sympathy for at all. These people quite simply never had a chance. They may end up just as bitter and nihilistic as the rest of the incels whose problems are mainly their own faults but unlike those, they really didn't have a choice about their outcome. They lack the ability to do anything that would have made things turn out much better.

  • The Anti-Chad
    • A creature born with every available way to get women: looks, wealth, status. However, his charisma is so detestable, his personality so horrific, he is a veritable black hole. He sucks the charisma of other beings and rips it to pieces. He is so detestable, so fucking horrible, that even associating with such a creature risks reversing your own virginity. Pure scum, narcissistic and entitled even beyond the True Incel. Meeting and conversing with one is like staring into the void. They are everything wrong with the modern world. They expect sex from everyone they meet, they expect you, yourself, to bow to them in awe. Their idiocy and lack of reality can bend time and space itself. Though they have every conceivable advantage, they are a horror beyond humanity that we instinctively run from them. Even in today's modern society, they stand out as the worst the world has to offer. Even women, who theoretically should flock to these attributes, flee, because of how primal this creature's awfulness is. There is no correcting this personality, and no fixing the sheer amount of ugliness this person possesses. Here you have your date rapists, rapists and others, because they are so horrific, they can't get anything but through sheer force. They are the dregs of humanity.

This is your Elliott Rodger. Maybe he was a slightly weird looking hapa but he was definitely attractive enough to score. He had the sort of sensual, if somewhat aloof look that paired with the right clothing and carrying himself the right way could have been rock star tier. At least the hybristophile chicks seem to think so. You would have seen this kind of look in emo bands. And his parents were loaded and adequately generous with him. And they were placed in the Hollywood scene.

He would have had access to all the social connections he needed, all the money he needed to look like a good catch, and reasonably good looks.

And instead he was Elliott fucking Rodger.
 
It's mostly an American phenomenon, especially the obsession with virginity.

In my lifelong experience as a man who's not exactly Brad Pitt what I learned is that most women don't really care much about looks to begin with. They do care if you're some imageboard-dwelling weeb weirdo who mutters weird things under his breath and gets his impression of how relationships are supposed to be from pornographic cartoons though. Not being able to talk normally to a woman and not treating them like people is also a big thing. Most of these people would be served well to walk away from the computer and their echo chambers a little and experience the world out there. Not to find a relationship, but just to learn social interaction. Also a relationship is work and isn't going to fix your mental issues, which is also often a thing I see with incels. If they'd manage to look at and talk to a woman without constantly thinking about reenacting their favorite hentai with her, they'd eventually figure out that woman aren't some mythical creatures and it's not all that hard to get along with them. All in all, I feel all this estrangement and escapism modern technology allows together with absent parenting is to blame. This couldn't and didn't happen when I grew up, although weirdos women felt around unsafe instinctively always existed, let me tell you.
 
He claims he’s a heightcel (5’2”). He’s 22 years old (born in 1997, IIRC) and his name is Knajjd. He’s a moderator on various different incel sites. He’s become a figurehead in the incel community. Much like ER (that would be Elliot Rodger), he wasn’t bad looking. It’s rumored that he raped an unconscious girl while she was drunk or something. Maybe it’s his personality or the fact that he lives in a third world country idk.

I think he's from Turkey? In any case, he's easily triggered by mentions of homosexuality and posts a lot of ethno-nationalist crap. Once had a swastika as an avatar?

Basically what @SigSauer said. I thought he looked familiar. Did we ever find out if he actually did rape someone?


I will acknowledge that like the term Nazi, the term incel has been thrown around so much that its basically lost all its original meaning and is now just a catchall term for "man I don't like".

When I say incel, I mean people that actually call themselves incels, hang out on their forums, and whine, and bitch about not being able to get laid, blame women, and society for all their problems, and fantasize about raping, and murdering women.

A man simply disagreeing with feminists, and having low self-confidence is not an incel.

A man who hates women for not fucking him, idolizes people Elliot Rodger, and wants to legalize rape is.

I find it even more hilarious when they call married men who tell them off incels. Okay well I suppose it's possible that their wives don't love them or have sex with them, but the word has lost its meaning due to overuse. I wouldn't worry too much about actual incels doing much other than whining on their shitty message boards though.

"My high school crush is pregnant by Chad" thread 3,254

I mean, I hate society as much as the next guy, but come on.
 
Even though Incels (with a capital I, as it were) often react in unhealthy and even downright psychotic ways, they're not entirely wrong about the underlying problem. Namely that modern courtship and gender dynamics are FUCKING AWFUL. You CAN'T tell a girl that her hair looks nice today, because she could decide it's sexual harassment and ruin your life over it. It's not LIKELY, because most people aren't batshit insane, but how can you tell the difference before getting to know them? Why take the chance? Especially if you're an autist or have general social struggles.

I don't know that I'd blame Tinder. It's more like a symptom than a cause. But social media in general is a major contributor toward the breakdown of local community, as is a culture that values perpetually keeping your options open and holding out for the perfect rather than accepting the good. The online meat market makes it worse, because why settle for the 8/10 reasonably cute guy (or girl) when you could try 10/10s and hope you get lucky? Attraction is being based entirely on a first impression rather than taking the opportunity to get to know someone. And maybe that's how it's supposed to start out, but that's become the beginning and end of it. As much as I hate the word "shallow", that's really where we've ended up, for both genders.

It's not easy to meet people these days. It's not exclusive to dating, but that's possibly the most impacted. As awful as the Incel community is, there's a part of me that understands the general frustration in being unable to find intimacy in a world that extremely unsympathetic toward that struggle, and assumes that any failure in finding a relationship must be 100% down to the individual.


This is all bullshit. First off, why on earth would you make remarks on someone's appearance unless you know them really well? It's just plain weird to tell someone they look good if you don't know them at least a bit beforehand. But also I certainly don't believe that you could get slapped with harassment charges either from doing that, claiming such is just hyperbole.

On the other hand, what you say about the shallowness of our age is also bullshit. In the past, when people who are now in retirement age were in the mating age, it was completely common to make decisions of getting married with someone based purely on their looks. My mother was attracted to my fathers height and posture. Another old relative of mine told once that the decisive factor in choosing her husband was that the man had beatiful eyes. And these aren't singular cases amongst their age-group. Imagine not only getting to serious relationship with someone based on their looks alone, but getting married with all it legally implies. If that's not shallow and dumb as fuck, I don't know what is, and at least no-one of my age is that fucking stupid nowadays.

World is full of people. Finding someone to fuck or even have a relationship is completely up to you, and whining about just shows that you deserve to be alone. Not a single person I know who really has wanted to get laid or to find permanent companion has failed in doing so, the ones who do don't even really try.
 
Whenever I hear "incel" shit I just don't get it, its a catch 22 so you involuntarily choose to not have sex? Just get a prostitute there is no excuse. It's not that fucking expensive just get a whore, if you don't then what we are talking about is people so lazy to get fucked they are celibate.
 
Whenever I hear "incel" shit I just don't get it, its a catch 22 so you involuntarily choose to not have sex? Just get a prostitute there is no excuse. It's not that fucking expensive just get a whore, if you don't then what we are talking about is people so lazy to get fucked they are celibate.
Its guys that simultaneously cannot get any women that aren't prostitutes yet think they have some kind of superiority that makes them too good to just get a prostitute. This is a contradiction so they lash out at what they perceive as an injustice that they cannot get what they desire and refuse to settle for what they deserve.
 
You're going to have to ask yourself who exactly are the "Incels". I've seen the term thrown around at pretty much anyone who disagrees with feminists.
Angry at women for using men as wallets? Incel. Low self confidence? Incel. No interest in having a girlfriend due to unrelated reasons? Incel.
Ironically the only people I've seen who can literally not get sex from any woman are the manginas that practically worship women.
Pic very much related
straw 19.png
 
1) Okay fuck Tinder; and fuck Bumble too. For as "easy" as they supposedly are I have learned that literally just hitting on random cuties in coffee shops and around town yields such better results than stupid swipe apps.

Tinder did nothing new in terms of female dating patterns, it just made it easier for some men to realize they arent part of the 20%.

2) In terms of all the damn pills, I hate it when people intentionally try to blend all the pills into one. Like OMFG incels do not see themselves as alpha chads, they hate alpha chads, get it right you fucking male feminist cucks.
It's like its specifically done to invalidate all manosphere ideologies at once (not that manosphere ideologies arent lulz worthy clickbait shit) without understanding an ounce of nuance.

3) I feel like you will get called an "incel" by people who themselves are incels just as often, if not more than other people.
The next time someone calls you an "incel" online ask them when was the last time they had sex.
Most likely you get either "Doesn't matter becauze I respekt wamyn!", "last night with two 11/10 super models" or just crickets.
 
Tbf the people talking about shallowness are spot on
I always thought I was pretty vain but the way people talk about their partners is fucking nuts; you can tell they don't like spending time with them and they literally just want a gf/bf as an accessory. As soon as they break up they're in a new relationship in a month and engaged in 4-6 months rinse repeat

Today I had a colleague announce she was with a new guy and the first feature of his she described? You should SEE his CAR he drives

And she looked absolutely shocked when another colleague didn't give a shit about what car he drives.
It's just ridiculous levels of immaturity and insecurity
 
The internet's laid bare the insecurities of its userbase. Incels are insecure about themselves and suspicious of the opposite sex. Online feminists are insecure about themselves and terrified of the opposite sex.

The two groups just need to fuck, tbh.
yeah, this shit here. Most of this class of feminist are terminally online, loaded with cats, and #resist the patriarchy by free-bleeding. You see a lot of this conversation style by butthurt thots in the ProjektMelody thread.
 
This is true. It's been a while since I've been a teenager so I've kind of forgotten about that. Still, the importance we place on it is insane. And once you actually do lose it, you're like...that's it?

It's funny how much it's built up as this big thing but once you get to it, you were expecting more. At least that's how I felt.

It's crazy how much you actually forget what that felt like. Once I got on juice for the first time it came roaring back, random public erections and all, my god do you forget about those until you're trying to hide an iron hard rager during a work meeting
 
In my very brief dive into the world of 'incels', I have categorized them like so.
  • Snake Eyes
    • The true losers of the genetic lottery. The so-called genetic dead end. These people are the ones you feel truly sorry for. Either their looks, social skills, intelligence and charisma has been so thoroughly destroyed by the roll of fate, they are helplessly fucked. While in the past they could get factory jobs or menial labor to get a woman, this is no longer possible. These are the ones where pretty much everything is out of their control and they cannot function. This typically goes beyond women and into the social sphere, relating to education, employment and training. These are the ones that really need the most help, but probably won't get it because they're lumped into the worst, which come after the next.

Was Snake Eyes really any incel though? He always seemed like a pretty cool dude to me.
snakeeyes.jpg
 
Please no, lets not mix those Genetic Markers, the endless REEing about everything of feminists and the actual gun-shooty motivation of Elliot the Huntard will end up with even more mass shootings.
More than anything I suspect a lot of these people just need to be touched. Holding a fucking hand once in a while would do these mal-adjusted idiots some good. Their children will also grow to hate them and vote Republican.
Was Snake Eyes really any incel though? He always seemed like a pretty cool dude to me.
View attachment 1151947
Maybe not an incel, but definitely on the spectrum:
1582119495526.png
 
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