Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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That's neat and all, but an enormous number of people have "crappy jobs." Especially people in jobs with a high amount of interpersonal contact, like food service, customer service, retail, public transportation, etc etc. These people are, by and large, not able to take sick days very easily, and they aren't able to afford medical care on a whim, either. Someone working two shitty jobs with garbage health insurance isn't going to go get tested at the first sign of being sick, and they won't stay home until they're on death's door. The number of people someone cooking beans at a Taco Bell could infect in a single day is staggering. This is very bad news for everyone, including people like you and me who have cushy jobs, easy access to health care, and paid sick leave.
Are you suggesting that there is value in ensuring that even the poor are able to access healthcare without getting evicted due to not being able to make rent?

Next you'll be saying that diabetics should have insulin subsidized or something. This is against natural law and the NAP.
 
So NYC gave away their entire supply of protective gear to wandering weirdos, at a point where they have no cases of Corona-Chan in the City. And it’s Trumps fault if he doesn’t give them more immediately? Idiocy at the highest levels. They had a stockpile of 1.5 million masks. That could have maintained the healthcare workers and emergency services for weeks, if properly distributed to those coming in contact with potential cases. Instead they gave them to Hobos. Good Job New York!



But can we still bang the Corona infected THOTs if we wear a mask and gloves?



I hate these sorts of News Stories. They are monitoring 100 people because of travel history. This is not a reason to panic. At least not yet.



I think it will depend on what is flying in and out? This could be a normal exercise day. If you see a lot of civilian type airliners going in and out that might be more worrying.




The current Pope seems to have a shortage of God Given Common Sense. And I say this as a Catholic. He is in many ways an idiot. Ministering to the sick is a noble and god given task. But assuming “God will protect me” when not wearing any protective gear is pure arrogant idiocy. God DID protect you! He gave you a mask and pair of gloves! Fucking wear them!

Francis reminds me of Father Michel Judge. He was the FDNY Chaplain during 9/11. He is also listed as the first responder killed. He was administering last rights to people outside the WTC. In doing so he took off his helmet. Because ritual! He was promptly hit on the head by falling debris and killed. At the time the Catholic Church had to re-emphicize to it’s Priesthood that “Protective Gear is always considered Holy, and appropriate dress when ministering to the fallen! No really we mean it! Wear your fucking gear!” Apparently Francis missed that Memo as he was too concerned with global warming and appeasing communists.
Lots of masks disappeared from Bellevue as well and I bet my money some enterprising city employee took some to sell on eBay.
 
Apparently Francis missed that Memo as he was too concerned with global warming and appeasing communists.
Hmm, I wonder, did the Pope change his habits? Not very hygienic to me.
pope-francis-kisses-the-foot-of-a-man-during-the-foot-washing-ritual-at-the-castelnuovo-di-por...jpg
 
Goats will graze your backyard to dirt and eat every bush and tree they can reach, even climbing on fences and other objects to get to them. They are also escape artists and need a six foot high electrified fence to keep them in because they can wreck most wire fences given time. Our neighbor has them for tard cum and there's a fuck of a lot to it, including constant breeding to keep tard cum production going and having several pastures to move them around to so they don't overgraze the turf. It is theorized that one of the reasons the middle east is so barren now is overgrazing by goats in historical times.

Yep. Parts of Africa too. Goats will denude any landscape quickly so need to be rotated constantly onto new bits of land and fenced in. Goats differ from sheep, horses and cows in how they graze - while sheep etc crop the grass or plants just above the aurface of the ground, goats wrap their tongue around the plant, grip and pull stuff up by its roots (because roots are nutritious and delicious to goats) and destroy the plant completely. They are not a casual backyard pet that will nicely graze on your lawn. No livestock animal is, to be frank, but goats will fuck shit up so fast it'll make your head spin. They're also as crafty as fuck and don't give a shit for your opinion. They're not your dog and won't bond to you or obey orders.

Again, if you're looking at these creatures for food (milk or meat) you have to have the same concerns, standards and expenses as a real professional farmer re: vaccinations, vet care when they'e ill which will cost plentyas most vets only deal with small animals nowadays, and standard of feed, care, housing etc. Otherwise you will have a sick animal and likely a destroyed landscape and angry neighbours.
 
Two new articles, i've italicized some interesting snippets.

New data from China buttress fears about high coronavirus fatality rate, WHO expert says
By HELEN BRANSWELL @HelenBranswell
FEBRUARY 25, 2020

One of the hopes of people watching China’s coronavirus outbreak was that the alarming picture of its lethality is probably exaggerated because a lot of mild cases are likely being missed.

But on Tuesday, a World Health Organization expert suggested that does not appear to be the case. Bruce Aylward, who led an international mission to China to learn about the virus and China’s response, said the specialists did not see evidence that a large number of mild cases of the novel disease called Covid-19 are evading detection.

“So I know everybody’s been out there saying, ‘Whoa, this thing is spreading everywhere and we just can’t see it, tip of the iceberg.’ But the data that we do have don’t support that,” Aylward said during a briefing for journalists at WHO’s Geneva headquarters.

Getting a handle on how many people have actually been infected is crucial to assessing how dangerous this virus is. During the early days of an explosive outbreak with a new pathogen, it is hugely challenging to look beyond the people streaming into hospitals for care to see whether there are many more at home with a mild cold or manageable flu-like illness.

If large numbers of mild or virtually symptom-free cases are evading detection, that would suggest that estimates of the proportion of people who might end up in ICUs or might die during a Covid-19 epidemic would be lower than what has been seen to date in China.

But if there aren’t large numbers of uncounted cases, the severity seen in China is what the rest of the world should expect as the virus moves to new locations, especially if it spreads to the degree seen in Hubei province, where the outbreak began.

“What [the data] support is that sure, there may be a few asymptomatic cases … but there’s probably not huge transmission beyond what you can actually see clinically,” Aylward said.

The claim was quickly challenged by an infectious diseases expert who serves on a committee that advises the WHO’s health emergencies program.

Gary Kobinger, director of the Infectious Disease Research Center at Laval University in Quebec, said it would be highly unusual for there not to be mild or symptom-free cases that are being missed. He pointed to the fact that outbreaks have popped up in countries far from China — including Iran and Italy — because people with mild infections were not detected and traveled to other places.

“There are mild cases that are undetected. This is why it’s spreading. Otherwise it would not be spreading because we would know where those cases are and they would be contained and that would be the end of it,” said Kobinger, who insisted that mild, undetected infections cannot be ruled out until people who haven’t been diagnosed with the illness can be tested for antibodies to the virus.

Those kinds of tests, called serology tests, are just becoming available in China, Aylward said.

“As long as we do not have good serology data, I think that it is completely speculative to say that there are no undetected cases,” Kobinger said.

Aylward pointed to an analysis from Guangdong province suggesting that, at least there, most of the infections were coming to the attention of health authorities.

When the virus started to spread in Guangdong — the province where the 2002-2003 SARS outbreak began — worried people flooded fever clinics to be tested. Of 320,000 tests performed, just under 0.5% were positive for the virus at the peak of transmission there, he said — which suggests that only 1 case out of 200 was being missed.

Transmission of the virus has subsided in Guangdong, and the number of positive tests at the fever clinics has declined; now only about 1 in 5,000 people tested at the fever clinics is positive for the virus, he said.

Aylward said that across China, about 80% of cases are mild, about 14% are severe, and about 6% become critically ill. The case fatality rate — the percentage of known infected people who die — is between 2% and 4% in Hubei province, and 0.7% in other parts of China, he said.


The lower rate outside of Hubei is likely due to the draconian social distancing measures China has put in place to try to slow spread of the virus. Other parts of China have not had the huge explosion of cases seen in Hubei, Aylward said.

A case fatality rate of between 2% to 4% rivals and even exceeds that of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed upwards of 50 million people. Even a case fatality rate of 0.7% — which means 7 out of every 1,000 infected people would die — is sobering. It is seven times the fatality rate for seasonal flu, which is estimated to kill between 290,000 and 650,000 people a year globally.

Italy changes virus count methods at UN agency's urging
Italy is changing how it reports coronavirus cases and who will get tested in ways that could lower the country's caseload even as an outbreak centered in northern Italy spreads in Europe
By
FRANCES D'EMILIO and NICOLE WINFIELD Associated Press
February 27, 2020, 9:07 AM
2 min read

ROME -- With tourism tanking and panic rising, Italy is changing how it reports coronavirus cases and who will get tested in ways that could lower the country's caseload even as an outbreak centered in northern Italy spreads in Europe, officials said Thursday.

Italian authorities plan from now on to distinguish between people who test positive for the virus and patients showing symptoms of COVID-19, the illness the virus causes, since the majority of the people in Italy with confirmed infections aren’t actually sick.


As of Thursday, Italy reported 528 cases and 12 confirmed deaths from the virus, the most of any country outside Asia. All the patients who died were elderly, sick with other ailments or both.

At the urging of the World Health Organization, Italy also is distinguishing between positive virus tests reported at a regional level and results confirmed by its National Institute of Health. The U.N. health agency insisted that only nationally certified cases are considered official.

“The cases that emerge from the regions are still considered suspect and unconfirmed,” Walter Ricciardi, a WHO adviser to the Italian government, said. "You will see that in the next few days, there will be outbreaks in other countries, too. But the other countries are much more rigorous” in their reporting methods.

Italy’s civil protection chief Angelo Borrelli said the Thursday count of 528 cases came from regional reports. Only 282 cases were certified by the national health institute, but that was all the test results it analyzed, Borrelli said.

Official certification therefore wasn’t expected to significantly alter the overall numbers in Italy once they were all counted, Borrelli said.

Out of the 528 cases, 159 infected people have required hospital treatment and 37 were in intensive care, while the vast majority isolated themselves at home in self-quarantine, Borrelli said.

The government is seeking to calm fears about the outbreak, which has seen countries issue travel advisories warning their citizens to avoid visiting hard-hit Lombardy and Veneto regions, which have seen the most cases.

The Italian government has lashed out at what it called alarmist and inaccurate reporting about the degree of contagion and level of panic, and insisted Italy is a safe country and ready to receive visitors.

---

Aren't the claims in the first story contradicted by the claims in the second, or am I missing something? Help me out here.
 
Exactly, some people are so myopic. Our experiences are not the same as the vast majority of workers in the US.

I have 30 days combined of PTO but construction workers, tellers, baristas, etc don’t even have remotely close to that. Same for people who work for small businesses etc, I recognize my benefits are vastly superior to most as is my pay.

So you basically have more than I do, but don't get it all at once. Yet I'm lacking foresight and imagination because I suggested that only three days a month for a Fortune 500 company, which you specify mentioned, was shitty?

Are you suggesting that there is value in ensuring that even the poor are able to access healthcare without getting evicted due to not being able to make rent?

Next you'll be saying that diabetics should have insulin subsidized or something. This is against natural law and the NAP.

🙄 No one is saying anything like that. He was purposely misconstruing how bad his job was. I don't work for a Fortune 500 company, and get better perks, which is why I said his job sounded awful.
 
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I think it will depend on what is flying in and out? This could be a normal exercise day. If you see a lot of civilian type airliners going in and out that might be more worrying.
I'm worried about military craft potentially being used to transport more human petri dishes here after the minor uproar over the commercial planes used. If I'm remembering correctly, the military has quarantine procedure and equipment for a few of their aircraft of some sort that have evolved over the last several decades. Aside from even that, excessive air traffic during a global crisis with no drill announcements over the speakers doesn't bode well. Those speakers could wake the fucking dead, as they do each and every Friday afternoon for a systems test. (There went another plane. And now a chopper.)
 
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So you basically have more than I do, but don't get it all at once. Yet I'm lacking foresight and imagination because I suggested that only three days a month for a Fortune 500 company, which you specify mentioned, was shitty?



🙄 No one is saying anything like that. He was purposely misconstruing how bad his job was. I don't work for a Fortune 500 company, and get better perks, which is why I said his job sounded awful.
Working at a fortune 500 company isn't impressive either. Walmart and McDonald's are fortune 500 companies. The way he phrased it could mean he's anywhere between a burger flipper or a CFO.
 
Just returned from Costco. All looked normal, no sign of panic buying. Bought extra bottle of allergy medicine. Was on sale and I'll use it anyway. In this area, believe people are so used to earthquakes and massive wildfires that the WuFlu isn't that big a deal.

Plan to get a few extra things at the commissary Saturday.

Throwing out another reminder to RELAX. Keep things in perspective. Many more people die every year from the "regular" flu than from the WuFlu so far. If you are in reasonably good health (no immune system issues or respiratory problems) don't think there's that much to worry about. Keep an eye out for the elderly, pregnant women and babies, though. Cannot speak for every country but believe most countries' medical system and sanitary standards exceed China's.

In my opinion, if the CCP had used a lick of sense in managing the virus outbreak properly the virus would have been a couple paragraphs in the paper/on line. As things are, it's China's Chernobyl. This is on top of the long-running African Swine Flu, which has killed millions of pigs, and now an avian flu, killing poultry.

This has shown the world two very important things.

First, the Chinese are not only ten feet tall, but have feet of shit. Everything in China, and some very critical things indeed, are not what they should be for a country with pretensions to greatness. Problems I see are structural and endemic to a highly authoritarian system. China appears strong, but is brittle, and the CCP ossified.

Second, it was the dumbest fucking thing on record for the world to put so many production eggs and material sourcing eggs in the Chinese basket, even dumber than just-in-time inventory management. Repeat after me: The longer the supply chain, the more fragile it is. Got it? Fully expect the exodus from China by foreign manufacturers to continue. Expect wise companies to find second sources for critical materials. Also expect wise manufacturers to find or make room for 2-4 weeks' worth of materials/parts/subassemblies. Expect wise retailers of Chinese-made goods to at least look into expanding storage space for inventory. Any company for which this hasn't been a wakeup call is retarded.
 
I'm worried about military craft potentially being used to transport more human petri dishes here after the minor uproar over the commercial planes used. If I'm remembering correctly, the military has quarantine procedure and equipment for a few of their aircraft of some sort that have evolved over the last several decades. Aside from even that, excessive air traffic during a global crisis with no drill announcements over the speakers doesn't bode well. Those speakers could wake the fucking dead, as they do each and every Friday afternoon for a systems test. (There went another plane. And now a chopper.)

Just wait for the Humanitarian side to take over and we dispatch one of our hospital ships... which doesn't get the thorough disinfectant cleaning it deserves afterwards.
 
It annoys me that the government hasn't done the obvious thing and shut down the damn border. Rate me mad at the internet but the assholes in power won't do the obvious thing because what? Hurt feels? I have at least 2 people dependant on my care if they get the wu flu they can die just like those who have respitory issues. That 25 year old who died in China? He had asthma according to the reports I got. Our goverments are fucking us in the ads dry.
It was too late by the time China started reporting cases.
It's R0 is too high and people are infectious for too long.
 
no he's a doctor he knows everything
He's probably right or whatever but it doesn't even matter. Every single person who throws out "mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you could say that" absolutely needs to shut the fuck up
Exactly, some people are so myopic. Our experiences are not the same as the vast majority of workers in the US.

I have 30 days combined of PTO but construction workers, tellers, baristas, etc don’t even have remotely close to that. Same for people who work for small businesses etc, I recognize my benefits are vastly superior to most as is my pay.
If you take a grocery store cashier who has to choose between staying home with something that may or may not be coronavirus and keeping their job/making rent that month, they're going to choose not being homeless 100% of the time. People who have never been truly poor don't understand the kinds of choices that need to be made sometimes.
Are you suggesting that there is value in ensuring that even the poor are able to access healthcare without getting evicted due to not being able to make rent?

Next you'll be saying that diabetics should have insulin subsidized or something. This is against natural law and the NAP.
Nah man, I'll just sit in my recreational McBunker and my Pfizer Presents: Bullets and eat my Mountain Dew Meat Product while the apocalypse rages outside. All according to plan.
So you basically have more than I do, but don't get it all at once. Yet I'm lacking foresight and imagination because I suggested that only three days a month for a Fortune 500 company, which you specify mentioned, was shitty?



🙄 No one is saying anything like that. He was purposely misconstruing how bad his job was. I don't work for a Fortune 500 company, and get better perks, which is why I said his job sounded awful.
My point is that it's really irrelevant whether his job is bad or not, because enough people have bad jobs for it to be a major problem for everyone.
 
Yep. Parts of Africa too. Goats will denude any landscape quickly so need to be rotated constantly onto new bits of land and fenced in. Goats differ from sheep, horses and cows in how they graze - while sheep etc crop the grass or plants just above the aurface of the ground, goats wrap their tongue around the plant, grip and pull stuff up by its roots (because roots are nutritious and delicious to goats) and destroy the plant completely. They are not a casual backyard pet that will nicely graze on your lawn. No livestock animal is, to be frank, but goats will fuck shit up so fast it'll make your head spin. They're also as crafty as fuck and don't give a shit for your opinion. They're not your dog and won't bond to you or obey orders.

Again, if you're looking at these creatures for food (tard cum or meat) you have to have the same concerns, standards and expenses as a real professional farmer re: vaccinations, vet care when they'e ill which will cost plentyas most vets only deal with small animals nowadays, and standard of feed, care, housing etc. Otherwise you will have a sick animal and likely a destroyed landscape and angry neighbours.
I had a pet goat he was tamed in 2 weeks and didn't destroy shit.
 
I mean, I get what you mean from the rest of your post, but what the fuck does that mean?
Feel-ten-feet-tall is a euphemism for being proud, often used in context of someone who should feel the exact opposite at the time.

Feet of shit is likely referring to shit heel, I.E. a idiot or despicable person, or a despicable person that feels themselves superior to all others, on point when referring to the boisterous chinese.
 
Working at a fortune 500 company isn't impressive either. Walmart and McDonald's are fortune 500 companies. The way he phrased it could mean he's anywhere between a burger flipper or a CFO.

Not really? He seemed to be trying to tie up the whole thing with even his job sucks.

My point is that it's really irrelevant whether his job is bad or not, because enough people have bad jobs for it to be a major problem for everyone.

That is fair, but I was only discussing the part about his job. I'm probably being unfair, but he was called out for making crap up yesterday, and so I find everything he says highly dubious.
 
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