Comicsgate Hangers-On and Drama Whores - A thread about some guy who's mad about Star Wars and the neckbeards obsessively stalking him

[YesNoMaybe]

And what is the best actual IP in Comicsgate? I guess its Cyberfrog? Maybe?

Quartering was right about the state of ComicsGate, but his thought process was playing out in real time.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

And what is the best actual IP in Comicsgate? I guess its Cyberfrog? Maybe?

Jawbreakers and cyberfrog are the faces of cg, everything else is probably c to d tier.

 

[Spectre_06]

None of this should be public spectacle. Put your kids on YouTube, especially while they're reacting to you doing something dickheaded, and prepare to be judged by the internet.

What's your opinion on people using their child as a shield against criticism of stupid actions they take...or really any criticism at all?

fuck that guy, all of cg was behind him when he got punched. Its a shame he had to do some bullshit like that.

Well yeah, that's what happens. Jeremy moves into something to "fight the SJWs" then inevitably turns on it when he can't make any more progress. He does the same thing that he accuses SJWs of doing.

Bullshit being getting upset for Ethan sharing private messages on stream? Is that what CG considers bullshit these days?

To be fair to Quarterpounder, he also got upset when Andy Warski shared his DMs with Sargon when Sargon was leading him on, saying he'd go on his show only to cancel and tell people Andy was lying and he never said he'd be on the show. Quarterpounder doesn't like DMs being shown, at least from his friends. He's never said anything about it beyond said friends, though, so I can't chalk it up to ethics and honesty on his part; to my knowledge, though, he's never shared his own DMs, even to "win an argument on the internet".

Ethan was moral fagging at nasser sharing dms about tug. Cg is nothing but hypocrisy.

I forgot about this, too. Damn.

I can’t see how Hambly’s observations were anything more than stating the obvious, yet even that milquetoast and entirely reasoned criticism caused the comicsgate spergs to immediately go full ‘Branch Davidian’ and Ethan jumped onto a stream to do a ‘react video’ to a stream he hadn’t seen more than a snippet of.

From what I can gather, Hamburgler attributed the stagnation of CG channels growth to the fact that six hour streams, full of deep lore drama and sperging, are utterly impenetrable to any new audience discovering comicsgate for the first time, while the drama is also alienating a decent chunk of the audience that find it all so tiresome, petty and misdirected.
In response, EVS got huffy and suggested that Hambly is just trying to stir controversy for clicks, because for some unknown reason a channel that gets millions of views a month needs to stir up drama with a dying niche movement for views apparently.
His defence against Hambley’s criticism was the rather nebulous suggestion that Hambly as an outsider ‘doesn’t understand the alchemy that is comicsgate’ and stagnating subscriber numbers and falling views on the biggest CG channels don’t indicate a flailing and failing movement because.. reasons.

EVS has been warned on many an occasion that blood-sports will implode the movement, but he's chosen phyrric victory over a bunch of literal nobodies over growth. March will be an interesting month to watch Comicsgate with the launch Rekt Planet.

I've been saying for a while now: once drama dies down, Comicsgate dies. Sure, they have comics out, but they don't have the ability, capital, or market to do anything more than what they are now. They use the drama to bilk their followers out of money and that's it. The problem is that aside from a very select few people in the leadership, Comicsgate "personalities" are not artists. Look at TUG, for example: his writing is done by someone else, his art is done by someone else. His entire schtick has been done by others. his takes are stale as shit and rehash what other people say (look at his Vic Mignogna stuff, for example: he just takes everything Nick says and regurgitates it, only he manages to be wrong more often than not...which is fucking impressive). His own character is just an amalgamation of things other people have done. If you see him draw...shit, I draw better than him, and I can barely draw a fucking stick figure.

The point is, many of these CG "celebrities" have nothing once the drama dies. I'd venture to say that even EVS would be with them, too, even with his talents.

I can only buy so many 25 dollar comics.

No matter how much you hate him, Preston had a point about crowdfunding and then making people also pay $25.00 for the comic., and then saying people should stop complaining about pricing because you should "support the Comicsgate creators". It's a greedy, shifty model.

 

[Rupin]

What's your opinion on people using their child as a shield against criticism of stupid actions they take...or really any criticism at all?



Well yeah, that's what happens. Jeremy moves into something to "fight the SJWs" then inevitably turns on it when he can't make any more progress. He does the same thing that he accuses SJWs of doing.



To be fair to Quarterpounder, he also got upset when Andy Warski shared his DMs with Sargon when Sargon was leading him on, saying he'd go on his show only to cancel and tell people Andy was lying and he never said he'd be on the show. Quarterpounder doesn't like DMs being shown, at least from his friends. He's never said anything about it beyond said friends, though, so I can't chalk it up to ethics and honesty on his part; to my knowledge, though, he's never shared his own DMs, even to "win an argument on the internet".



I forgot about this, too. Damn.



I've been saying for a while now: once drama dies down, Comicsgate dies. Sure, they have comics out, but they don't have the ability, capital, or market to do anything more than what they are now. They use the drama to bilk their followers out of money and that's it. The problem is that aside from a very select few people in the leadership, Comicsgate "personalities" are not artists. Look at TUG, for example: his writing is done by someone else, his art is done by someone else. His entire schtick has been done by others. his takes are stale as shit and rehash what other people say (look at his Vic Mignogna stuff, for example: he just takes everything Nick says and regurgitates it, only he manages to be wrong more often than not...which is fucking impressive). His own character is just an amalgamation of things other people have done. If you see him draw...shit, I draw better than him, and I can barely draw a fucking stick figure.

The point is, many of these CG "celebrities" have nothing once the drama dies. I'd venture to say that even EVS would be with them, too, even with his talents.



No matter how much you hate him, Preston had a point about crowdfunding and then making people also pay $25.00 for the comic., and then saying people should stop complaining about pricing because you should "support the Comicsgate creators". It's a greedy, shifty model.

i’ve seen comics that are priced at ten bucks that barely break 5 k. Imagine how much money the writer of the comic is losing. Making comics costs money, to get a good artist you have to pay 1000 to 3000 dollars depending on their page rate. You have to pay the printer, you have to pay to fulfill. That takes a big chunk out of the profits. So if a guy can make bank selling his comic for 20-25 dollars then more power to him.

 

[AnOminous]

I've been saying for a while now: once drama dies down, Comicsgate dies.

The whole -gate suffix signifies a passing scandal of the moment, not a serious movement. It should never have been adopted.

 

[verissimus]

The whole -gate suffix signifies a passing scandal of the moment, not a serious movement. It should never have been adopted.

A-freaking-men.

 

[Spectre_06]

i’ve seen comics that are priced at ten bucks that barely break 5 k. Imagine how much money the writer of the comic is losing. Making comics costs money, to get a good artist you have to pay 1000 to 3000 dollars depending on their page rate. You have to pay the printer, you have to pay to fulfill. That takes a big chunk out of the profits. So if a guy can make bank selling his comic for 20-25 dollars then more power to him.

Sure, but stop bilking people out of money to crowdfund your comic, then. You're not losing money when other people are giving you money to print it, so there's no reason to sell at $25 or more per "issue".

The whole -gate suffix signifies a passing scandal of the moment, not a serious movement. It should never have been adopted.

Ain't this the gorram truth?

 

[Rupin]

Sure, but stop bilking people out of money to crowdfund your comic, then. You're not losing money when other people are giving you money to print it, so there's no reason to sell at $25 or more per "issue".



Ain't this the gorram truth?

yeah, you are losing money.especially when you know that customers are willing to pay 20 bucks for a 48 page book. If it were 24 pages then I would understand the ten dollar price tag, but even then those dont sell well unless you are a big name.
For example, Sweetcast put Downcast issue 1 at 15 dollars, he made 31,000 when the campaign was over. After all his expenses, he only made 5,000 dollars.

this is why selling books for 20 to 25 dollars is the norm.

 

[Spectre_06]

yeah, you are losing money.especially when you know that customers are willing to pay 20 bucks for a 48 page book. If it were 24 pages then I would understand the ten dollar price tag, but even then those dont sell well unless you are a big name.
For example, Sweetcast put Downcast issue 1 at 15 dollars, he made 31,000 when the campaign was over. After all his expenses, he only made 5,000 dollars.

this is why selling books for 20 to 25 dollars is the norm.

So it's not about the end-user or the community, it's about the "indie comic creators" lining their pockets?

 

[Rupin]

So it's not about the end-user or the community, it's about the "indie comic creators" lining their pockets?

Well if they are taking up all the expenses of publishing and distributing their work all on their own, why not support that? In the end, it’s the community that decides whether they want to pull their credit out of their wallet or not.

What I can emphasis with is the lateness of all of these CG projects. That to me, is what is killing the movement even more than the drama and high price tag.

 

[Spectre_06]

Well if they are taking up all the expenses of publishing and distributing their work all on their own, why not support that? In the end, it’s the community that decides whether they want to pull their credit out of their wallet or not.

What I can emphasis with is the lateness of all of these CG projects. That to me, is what is killing the movement even more than the drama and high price tag.

They're not. The people buying their books are taking that up, not the creators themselves. That's why every one has some Indi Go Go, GFM, Kickstarter, etc. to get their shit put out there. That's the point.

 

[Comicsgeist]

So it's not about the end-user or the community, it's about the "indie comic creators" lining their pockets?

I don't know how you come to the conclusion that anybody working for 6 months on a project and making 5k is lining their pockets. Quite the opposite I'd say.

Clint Stoker's profit margin does however align with the 'back of an envelope' estimate I did a while back on the cost of producing a book.
If you take Clint’s campaign as a reasonable benchmark for comicsgate success, then you're talking about 1k backers (which is a conveniently round number).

I reckon that your average 48 page CG book probably costs around $300 per page if you hire a competent artist, colourist and letterer. (200 per page to the artist and 100 to colour and letter)
That's $14,400 just to complete the book. That is a cost you can reduce to nothing if you do all that yourself of course, but what's the time that takes worth to you in monetary terms? It's still probably 3 months of solid yet unprofitable work for a creator.
I looked at Print Nina's site for a quote, (the number of MAGA! boys that choose to print in commie China is amusing to me) and I reckon you're talking about $3 per unit to print 1k books at that economy of scale.
So you're looking at $17,400 jsut to get the book into your hand before you even fulfil the campaign.
I'd guesstimate that you're looking at about $8 to deliver an order (within the U.S.) when you count the cost of a gemini mailer and postage, or about 8k.

So, with a thousand backers, you're looking at $25,400 to fulfil a campaign (and that's doing it yourself, which should be feasible with a thousand backers) and without adding a multitude of stretch goal 'chachkies' as Zack calls them.

By my estimation, anybody that launches a book that makes 25k or less is not going to see much if any profit for all that work. I think EVS said as much once and it caused a minor kerfuffle in the community because people didn't want to hear that most of the books in CG will always remain labours of love rather than a career, unless your campaign is doing somewhere in the region of 35k, creating a book is an utter waste of your time IMO.
You'd need to do that 3 or 4 times a year just to make a basic bitch living at comics and anybody who's campaign is doing 5-15k is taking a bath on it every time they publish.

None of that is denying that the price point is an issue, it is, and going forward I think many creators are going to need to find ways to reduce costs but nobody (apart from a select few) is making a ton of money on their books.

 

[Rupin]

They're not. The people buying their books are taking that up, not the creators themselves. That's why every one has some Indi Go Go, GFM, Kickstarter, etc. to get their shit put out there. That's the point.

that’s also the point of the 25 dollar price tag. To cover those expenses and yet still be able to make a profit in an industry where it’s hard for a new creator to get any traction.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

that’s also the point of the 25 dollar price tag. To cover those expenses and yet still be able to make a profit in an industry where it’s hard for a new creator to get any traction.

I've never had a clear sense about how much it costs to ship the comic books, the stuff I've seen while paying half attention makes is sound crazy expensive, especially outside the USA.

 

[Rupin]

I've never had a clear sense about how much it costs to ship the comic books, the stuff I've seen while paying half attention makes is sound crazy expensive, especially outside the USA.

yeah that international shipping is a bitch. It can add 20 or 30 dollars to your shipping, or in Doug’s case, 65$.

 

[instythot]

i’ve seen comics that are priced at ten bucks that barely break 5 k. Imagine how much money the writer of the comic is losing. Making comics costs money, to get a good artist you have to pay 1000 to 3000 dollars depending on their page rate. You have to pay the printer, you have to pay to fulfill. That takes a big chunk out of the profits. So if a guy can make bank selling his comic for 20-25 dollars then more power to him.

The fact that people defend a fucking paperback comic book having a non-collector's market price of $25 is a sign that the entire industry, including the comicsgate creators should be burned down and the earth they occupied salted

 

[Adamska]

The fact that people defend a fucking paperback comic book having a non-collector's market price of $25 is a sign that the entire industry, including the comicsgate creators should be burned down and the earth they occupied salted

Also it's amusing whenever the story pivots from wanting to change comics for the better to allowing authors to force you to spend 25 bucks for a smallish paperback book.

While wanting to profit and make products better can go hand in hand, the rapid pivot and enabling the high prices for what you get amuses me.

 

[Rupin]

Also it's amusing whenever the story pivots from wanting to change comics for the better to allowing authors to force you to spend 25 bucks for a smallish paperback book.

While wanting to profit and make products better can go hand in hand, the rapid pivot and enabling the high prices for what you get amuses me.

we here can gripe about it or defend it all we want. If those thousands of people outside of this forum continue continue to pay 25 bucks for a book, then nothing will change and that will just continue to be the norm. The market decides the price because that is what they are willing to pay.

 

[instythot]

Also it's amusing whenever the story pivots from wanting to change comics for the better to allowing authors to force you to spend 25 bucks for a smallish paperback book.

While wanting to profit and make products better can go hand in hand, the rapid pivot and enabling the high prices for what you get amuses me.

If they're already passing the hat around for a crowdfund, why not also sell some ad pages to keep the costs down? I am sure there is a generation of man children who forgot that they like eating hostess pies, and these amateur authors also get to labor over a few less pages of story

 

[Adamska]

we here can gripe about it or defend it all we want. If those thousands of people outside of this forum continue continue to pay 25 bucks for a book, then nothing will change and that will just continue to be the norm. The market decides the price because that is what they are willing to pay.

All 10k of them being whales that can be scared off at any potential minute, and so abnormal. Actually means a pretty unhealthy industry too since they're supposed to be a boon yeah, but a minority in a market.

If they're already passing the hat around for a crowdfund, why not also sell some ad pages to keep the costs down? I am sure there is a generation of man children who forgot that they like eating hostess pies, and these amateur authors also get to labor over a few less pages of story

Imagine all the weird retroshit you could put in a few ad pages. Things like x-ray goggles, bear hunting kits, human blockhead kits...

The list goes on.