Comicsgate Hangers-On and Drama Whores - A thread about some guy who's mad about Star Wars and the neckbeards obsessively stalking him

[KingofNothing]

@FROG What say you? Are you a bad enough dude to get adspace for some Rose Tico dolls in the next Cyberfrog?

 

[Rupin]

All 10k of them being whales that can be scared off at any potential minute, and so abnormal. Actually means a pretty unhealthy industry too since they're supposed to be a boon yeah, but a minority in a market.

Imagine all the weird retroshit you could put in a few ad pages. Things like x-ray goggles, bear hunting kits, human blockhead kits...

The list goes on.

I’d rather have 10k whales that support every one of my projects consistently then be going through what Mike S. Miller is going through with his Bless this Mess campaign. Its been 7 days and he only has 6 or 7 backers, meanwhile Ethan and Zack’s projects get fully funded and then some within an hour of their campaign’s launch with little or no promotion.

 

[instythot]

I’d rather 10k whales that support every one of my projects consistentl, then be going through what Mike S. Miller is going through with his Bless this Mess campaign. Its been 7 days and he only has 6 or 7 backers, meanwhile Ethan and Zack’s projects get fully funded and then some within an hour of their campaign’s launch with little or no promotion.

Just you wait until these grown men who love throwing money at nothing discover the opportunity to fund DSP's bankruptcy payments

 

[FROG]

If they're already passing the hat around for a crowdfund, why not also sell some ad pages to keep the costs down? I am sure there is a generation of man children who forgot that they like eating hostess pies, and these amateur authors also get to labor over a few less pages of story

People are buying our comics at these prices. They're also reselling comparably, if not for twice what they paid. It doesn't seem to be an actual issue right now.

Marvel and DC sell at a higher volume through Direct Market distribution, which is a terrific model for getting big full page M&Ms and Nike ads. They're also non-returnable. It allows them to keep the cover price low.

We have much lower print runs and we use Media Mail to ship our books, which prohibits advertising. So if CYBERFROG grabbed an ad from WHEATIES, we'd have to charge more for shipping for what, an additional $8000 in revenue? We can't take ads while we do a zero pipeline distribution model.

We're still building this thing. Everyone is branching out and feeling around for the best way to get the word out to more readers, and distribute more cost effectively, through either magazine racks or Amazon. It's all a work in progress, Instythot.

 

[KingofNothing]

People are buying our comics at these prices. They're also reselling comparably, if not for twice what they paid. It doesn't seem to be an actual issue right now.

Marvel and DC sell at a higher volume through Direct Market distribution, which is a terrific model for getting big full page M&Ms and Nike ads. They're also non-returnable. It allows them to keep the cover price low.

We have much lower print runs and we use Media Mail to ship our books, which prohibits advertising. So if CYBERFROG grabbed an ad from WHEATIES, we'd have to charge more for shipping for what, an additional $8000 in revenue? We can't take ads while we do a zero pipeline distribution model.

We're still building this thing. Everyone is branching out and feeling around for the best way to get the word out to more readers, and distribute more cost effectively, through either magazine racks or Amazon. It's all a work in progress, Instythot.

Oh right, I actually forgot that you couldn't do ads with shipping process you guys chose. That's a shame, the dream of Cyberfrog satiating some killer wasps with a Hostess Fruit Pie and Rose Tico dolls shall remain a dream for now

 

[instythot]

People are buying our comics at these prices. They're also reselling comparably, if not for twice what they paid. It doesn't seem to be an actual issue right now.

Marvel and DC sell at a higher volume through Direct Market distribution, which is a terrific model for getting big full page M&Ms and Nike ads. They're also non-returnable. It allows them to keep the cover price low.

We have much lower print runs and we use Media Mail to ship our books, which prohibits advertising. So if CYBERFROG grabbed an ad from WHEATIES, we'd have to charge more for shipping for what, an additional $8000 in revenue? We can't take ads while we do a zero pipeline distribution model.

We're still building this thing. Everyone is branching out and feeling around for the best way to get the word out to more readers, and distribute more cost effectively, through either magazine racks or Amazon. It's all a work in progress, Instythot.

Thank you for this informative response

Let's run with the $8k wheaties ad for a moment and put the ability to put out 3 to 4 issues per year on the table, then do some cocktail napkin calculations. The books now qualify for periodical rates. A best case scenario for media mail vs worst case for periodical mail at 10k units and 3.5 ounces gives us a difference of $300 ish in shipping and every ad page knocks nearly a dollar off the cost while also making page counts a little easier to hit

Bringing several creators who can hit deadlines and page count together under one entity should also allow negotiations for better printing rates through volume and scheduled business rather than getting these things printed up piecemeal as the books are finished

You may not think that $25/book is limiting your business, but at more than 3 hours of minimum wage work for a comic book? It definitely is limiting the reach of what you're doing even if you don't notice it now. Some things to consider, I suppose

 

[Rupin]

Thank you for this informative response

Let's run with the $8k wheaties ad for a moment and put the ability to put out 3 to 4 issues per year on the table, then do some cocktail napkin calculations. The books now qualify for periodical rates. A best case scenario for media mail vs worst case for periodical mail at 10k units and 3.5 ounces gives us a difference of $300 ish in shipping and every ad page knocks nearly a dollar off the cost while also making page counts a little easier to hit

Bringing several creators who can hit deadlines and page count together under one entity should also allow negotiations for better printing rates through volume and scheduled business rather than getting these things printed up piecemeal as the books are finished

You may not think that $25/book is limiting your business, but at more than 3 hours of minimum wage work for a comic book? It definitely is limiting the reach of what you're doing even if you don't notice it now. Some things to consider, I suppose

what price should they sell them for and still be as successful? The market for these is still going to be limited regardless, because the younger demographic isn‘t exactly coming out in droves to support these comics. It’s the 30 to 40 crowd with more money to spend that does,

 

[instythot]

what price should they sell them for and still be as successful? The market for these is still going to be limited regardless, because the younger demographic isn‘t exactly coming out in droves to support these comics. It’s the 30 to 40 crowd with more money to spend that does,

Less. You're still asking these people to spend around an hour at work to buy a comic book, and the 30 to 40 crowd with disposable income also usually have familial obligations to consider

 

[FROG]

Less. You're still asking these people to spend around an hour at work to buy a comic book, and the 30 to 40 crowd with disposable income also usually have familial obligations to consider

Yes, but the books are *AT LEAST* twice the size of normal Marvel and DC Comics, which are currently about $6-7. CYBERFROG BLOODHONEY was 60 pages of story and art, plus a bonus 20 page gallery of sketches and pin ups. That's three times the length of a DC Comic, with high end mainstream production and an autograph.

$25 is the correct price, and asking people, who are anticipating the next issue, to pay the price of a double date to the movies for the next copy is completely reasonable.

Especially when it's only twice a year.

Sorry, instythot. I just disagree!

 

[instythot]

Yes, but the books are *AT LEAST* twice the size of normal Marvel and DC Comics, which are currently about $6-7. CYBERFROG BLOODHONEY was 60 pages of story and art, plus a bonus 20 page gallery of sketches and pin ups. That's three times the length of a DC Comic, with high end mainstream production and an autograph.

$25 is the correct price, and asking people, who are anticipating the next issue, to pay the price of a double date to the movies for the next copy is completely reasonable.

Especially when it's only twice a year.

Sorry, instythot. I just disagree!

Well, you have your pricing ideas.

However: only $25 for a double date to the movies? Are you not planning to buy the prospective Mrs. Van Sciver even a small popcorn or take her for a drink afterwards? You're lucky you're already married, sir

 

[verissimus]

The other thing is Ad sponsorship (especially given who the sponsor is) may not just foot the bill and make the final product cheaper but it's is also a decent indication that you're pretty much making it. That's just the ways things have been for decades. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck in your little corner forever.

 

[Comicsgeist]

Well, you have your pricing ideas.

However: only $25 for a double date to the movies? Are you not planning to buy the prospective Mrs. Van Sciver even a small popcorn or take her for a drink afterwards? You're lucky you're already married, sir

I guess that's what all the chachkies are, if you let him reach his stretch goal of a hand on your knee he'll chromium up your cover!

I do have to say that book does look gorgeous. The stretch goals could use a little more creativity to enhance the fun experience that the premium price should offer. Cecil's perks look entertaining and in fairness EVS does seem to be putting thought into the presentation of his offerings.
Perhaps he should crowdsource some blue sky thinking from the creative community for innovative and inexpensive to produce stocking filler ideas that can ship flat and don't weigh a lot.

 

[CheezzyMach]

The whole -gate suffix signifies a passing scandal of the moment, not a serious movement. It should never have been adopted.

The fact that Gamergate crashed and burned should have told them that.

 

[FROG]

The fact that Gamergate crashed and burned should have told them that.

Do you truly think GamerGate crashed and burned because it had "-Gate" as a suffix?

GamerGate might have done better if they'd organized and built up a replacement media for video games. One that didn't offer favors for sex like the mainstream media that they exposed.

It's all about the end goal, it doesn't matter what you call it. If we're still successfully selling and delivering comic books next year, ComicsGate has pretty much won.

The other thing is Ad sponsorship (especially given who the sponsor is) may not just foot the bill and make the final product cheaper but it's is also a decent indication that you're pretty much making it. That's just the ways things have been for decades. Otherwise, you're going to be stuck in your little corner forever.

Here's another issue of your faulty perception, rather than reality.

Comic books have advertisements to cover costs. They interrupt the flow of the story and serve no purpose except to give us, the manufacturer, more money at the expense of your reading pleasure.

If we can avoid selling ads, we should avoid selling ads. I want CYBERFROG books to be an immersive and cinematic experience. Not an ABC television show.

I wouldn't condemn others for selling ads, but for the time being, while people are giving me hundreds of thousands of dollars in advance to make Frog books, there's just no need.

 

[instythot]

Do you truly think GamerGate crashed and burned because it had "-Gate" as a suffix?

GamerGate might have done better if they'd organized and built up a replacement media for video games. One that didn't offer favors for sex like the mainstream media that they exposed.

It's all about the end goal, it doesn't matter what you call it. If we're still successfully selling and delivering comic books next year, ComicsGate has pretty much won.

Gamergate crashed and burned because of the retarded purity spiraling and blatant grifting previously discussed in this thread. Also, the public stupidity of its figureheads brought a real stink of shame to association with it. Nearly all of these figureheads have threads here that you can browse and one of them declared that gamergate was successful and fulfilled all of its goals

One cannot help but wonder why non-invested observers continually draw comparisons between the two -gates

 

[FROG]

Gamergate crashed and burned because of the exceptional purity spiraling and blatant grifting previously discussed in this thread. Also, the public stupidity of its figureheads brought a real stink of shame to association with it. Nearly all of these figureheads have threads here that you can browse and one of them declared that gamergate was successful and fulfilled all of its goals

One cannot help but wonder why non-invested observers continually draw comparisons between the two -gates

It's hard to say.

GamerGate was largely built of talentless but often funny neckbeards making memes and YouTube videos to fight Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn. It never became anything else.

ComicsGate started out the same way, except substitute Gail Simone and Dan Slott for Anita. It failed too. Now it's become people who have actual discernible marketable talent making independent comics on our own terms.

We have our share of grifters...it's hard to suss those out without "purity spiraling." And public stupidity is okay as long as it's funny.

I don't think we have too many of our figureheads with threads here except for TUG.

Internet culture is what it is, instythot, but we're doing exactly what we're setting out to do, and getting better at it.

Eventually you'll have to give us our due. And kneel before Caesar.

 

[instythot]

It's hard to say.

GamerGate was largely built of talentless but often funny neckbeards making memes and YouTube videos to fight Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu and Zoe Quinn. It never became anything else.

Daniel Vavra and his team are far from talentless neckbeards.

The production cycle for video games is years longer than that for comic books even if you're squirting out pixel art and/or rpg maker nonsense. Can even EVS keep neckbeards angry enough to spend money for four to five years without product? I think not. You have the luck to have a relatively short production cycle in your chosen media on your side in this grift

You'll notice I didn't even take a swipe at deadlines in there

 

[Adamska]

Eventually you'll have to give us our due. And kneel before Caesar.

Even if intended as a joke how about no and fuck any hypothetical purchases from you for that.

 

[Rupin]

Even if intended as a joke how about no and fuck any hypothetical purchases from you for that.

You werent going to buy from him anyway.

 

[CheezzyMach]

Daniel Vavra and his team are far from talentless neckbeards.

The production cycle for video games is years longer than that for comic books even if you're squirting out pixel art and/or rpg maker nonsense. Can even EVS keep neckbeards angry enough to spend money for four to five years without product? I think not. You have the luck to have a relatively short production cycle in your chosen media on your side in this grift

You'll notice I didn't even take a swipe at deadlines in there

Video games also are mainstream and aren't a medium on the brink of death like American comics are.

If either Marvel or DC closes it's fucked.