Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Got a question about the flu vax thats been rolling around in my head. You have the 3 strain and 4 strain type. Why isnt there ones with more. We all hear from time to time that the vax was a miss this year or that. Is it just expense vs diminishing return or is there a medical reason not to?

It's mostly economy. Technically there could be issues with recombination the more vaccines you add but really even those could be solved given enough time and money. But that "enough" could easily rival a small country's GDP, and take over a year. I already talked about how bad antivirals get in general. Now, the latest gen of vaccines seems to solve most of this but for now they're expensive, unreliable and take even longer to make so until we have the infrastructure to do them as expected we're stuck with this. As I explained before current gen vaccines and antivirals are known to be a bit of a lost cause, much like antibiotics, but we gotta keep em going for now because there's no better alternative. Welcome to biology, it gets scary.

Not an expert, but all microbes are constantly mutating. What I think that report did was get the genome at the Washington state virus sample, compared the mutations with the original Wuhan samples and using known mutation rates, figure out when they have diverged. If I am not mistaken, similar analysis have done for figuring out the relationships between plants and animals, albeit longer, geological times, since obiviously they don't reproduce as fast (e.g. minutes vs years).

But again, not an expert, better check with @Otterly, @EmuWarsVeteran and (if he comes out of his hidy hole) @Secret Asshole .

BTW, Leafland is now asking all people coming from Iran to self-quarantine for 14 days. Because if you quarantine the virus, they win.

Fucking lol at being considered an authority. Do take my word with a grain of salt as I mentioned before I'm just a mentally challenged student. But quick summary:

EVERYTHING mutates ALL the time. DNA isn't really fully packed ever, it fluctuates between thermodynamic states. So its constantly at least slightly getting damaged.

The reason unicellular organisms "mutate faster" isn't NECESSARILY (more on that later) how many mutations they get. There's actually multiple factors here:

-Somatic mutations vs germinal mutations: pluricellular organisms reproduce via meiosis, which is carried exclusively by germinal cell. (Eggs and balls.) So if most of the body (the somatic cells) get a mutation the descendants don't inherit it. Now. There IS ways for somatic cells to wind up as germinal cells, hell we've even found mechanisms by which cells from a fetus transfer to the mother, but these are the minority, most mutations just disappear with the individual. Compared to this unicelular organisms reproduce by mitosis which everyone does. So every mutation gets passed on. You can see how ALL is more than JUST A FEW.

-cancer and aging: the reason pluricellular organisms are pluricellular is because of extracellular signaling and intracellular differenciation keeping them that way. The most likely outcome of mutations is a disruption of this process, which results in cancer, which is simply an overgrowth of cells. This is why cancer is so hard to treat, it's your own body, and so hard to prevent, as we are really just cancers chained into human form, so, really, best we can do is keep adding mechanisms to chain this form further. (Welcome to biology, it gets scary.) These mechanisms typically result in aging. This is where it comes from. So basically. Pluricellular organisms get fucked when they mutate. By comparison the only thing keeping unicellular organisms checked is natural sellection.

-the nucleus: and now for the thing that does reduce mutations. The nucleus protects the DNA. In procariotes the external membrane has to pull that duty, which it does worse, in viri its the capside which is even flimsier, and prions have nothing. So yes there are more mutations going on in viri.

-useless DNA: finally. Most of the DNA is fairly useless when it comes to actual reactions in the body. This is good for us because these areas tend to be covered in low CG repeated strains, which means they are unstable, which means thermodynamically they are unpacked more than the rest and therefore it's where the mutations happen. The reason we like that is because since these areas have little to no function these mutations can be dealt with by the molecular mechanisms in charge of maintaining DNA stable with little to no damage to the person. As you can imagine, viri, which have generally less DNA than other organisms, have less of these areas. So most mutations do something for them.

It's weird that we dont get the same type of reporting out of Italy or South Korea. Iranians in general must be in terrible health

>majority smokers
>really high pollution area
>impoverished popullation
>hatred for western medicine
>think licking shrines is a good idea
>poorly equiped hospitals

Fucking lol.

Why didn’t our government screen them, quarantine them, test them etc?

There are stories of people returning without being asked where in Italy or south Korea they travelled as of just yesterday. The cdc and government doesn’t care.

Here in spain they do the screening but they do mostly self quarantine everyone (outside of the autonomous communities that have high commerce), the reason for self quarantine as opposed to regular quarantine is simple. We still ain't got the 0 patient for 1 case, which started in mid february and every official model says this shit was here since at least mid january. Yeah quarantine is more for show than anything

Also spain update: got info from my medical union contact than gloves, masks and hand sanitizer are starting to run out. The sanitizer has been fixed with soap which makes things less efficient but what can you do. The gloves thing is being prepared to be fixed that way for cases where its not that important so long as the gloves are cleaned. As for the masks, some of the supervisors which got charges for political (*cough*nepotism*cough*) reasons have tried to push some retarded fixes but thankfully so far the unions have been surprisingly efficient at telling them to go fuck themselves and getting the alert responders involved so the ISCIII can push the protocol along. The unions are as *ejem*political as the supervisors so usually they do little but recently a major chain of nepotism got excised by anti-corruption (after europe told them to fix that shit) and I guess between that, the recent right wing takeover of the south and the fact spain doesn't take emergencies like this lightly its just combined into hey-we're-kinda-doing-it-right-land... I do find some dismay at the logistical oversight but the chinks did clean civilian masks off the shelves so I guess after imports started being reduced it was a matter of time. Still expected them to suck a lot more. We should've told chink scalpers to eat shit when we could though.
 
Just heard this on the Russian news, and checked it on the NHK: apparently, some asthma drugs can help for pneumonia caused by the virus:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200303_20/
If they're using this it's not from some inhaler. Ciclesonide is a preventer (red) which means you're meant to take it once or twice a day for 30 days before its at full effect. Preventers won't even help an asthma attack, you need a reliever for that (the blue ones).

Asthmatics will probably survive this because we've all started taking our preventers religiously like it's peak summer. It'll be "asthmatics" like smokers and diabetics that aren't really asthmatic but need the blue inhalers to widen their bronchioles.
 
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In the Netherlands cases are increasing day by day, but everything is hunky dory. Apparently racism and harsh words online are far more lethal and most people here are treating it as a far from my bed show. When didt the Dutchies become so complacent that taking your own shopping bag to the supermarket is more noteworthy news than a looming epidemic. But oh no please think of the poor refugees and the climate, and please dont be such a downer. Sorry bit of a rant, but to be so naive that it couldnt be more than a headache is annoying the shit out of me.

As much as the whole watch your language thing is stupid you have to get that they really need to peddle the business as usual pov. The virus is dangerous, yes, but more dangerous than it would be causing panic in a mass population. People lose all rational thought and many become dangerous in panic suitations, they need to prevent that from happening.

Downplaying severity, to an extent, needs to happen. They can't just keep reporting cases and drumming up fear as it spreads.

Keep alert. Stock up a bit as a just in case measure if you do happen to get sick or qurantined and properly practise personal protection.
 
It's not so much that I expect to get deathly sick. It's more that when I get sick, I become a danger to people around me who have a much greater chance of getting deathly sick. And if 14% of people get seriously ill, there's no way that hospitals can provide adequate care to even 1% of the population at any given time. These are the concerns.

The thing to remember is that not all people are going to get sick at the same time. And many of the seriously ill would have a good chance of recovering with no more than oxygen support, lung fluid draining, and IV fluid support, they certainly don't all need respirator support. If pinch comes to shove that can all be done from the home or a medical professional's office. Using this as the standard for "adequate care", I think America will be able to provide adequate care to every case, if not optimum care.
 
As much as the whole watch your language thing is stupid you have to get that they really need to peddle the business as usual pov. The virus is dangerous, yes, but more dangerous than it would be causing panic in a mass population. People lose all rational thought and many become dangerous in panic suitations, they need to prevent that from happening.

Downplaying severity, to an extent, needs to happen. They can't just keep reporting cases and drumming up fear as it spreads.

Keep alert. Stock up a bit as a just in case measure if you do happen to get sick or qurantined and properly practise personal protection.
[/QUOTE]
Ahhh corona Chan is raping me! quick everybody panick!
 
Heard a few minutes of Rush Limbaugh yesterday. He was opinining this is a nothingburger, a mainstram media/Democrat op to distract from their shitshow circus primary and make Trump look bad. That it would soon blow over and they'd focus on another distraction.

He also compared this to the swine flu panic of 1976 where President Ford mandated vaccines and the vaccines made more people sick than the actual flu implying that we should not trust govt vaccines if they get them for Corona.


indeed comrade, we must keep our tradition of poor health and physical unfitness confined to our local walmarts. we must keep our sharts and carts in the frozen aisles of freedom and the potato chip pastures of diversity, not in the socialistic outdoors of public space

This. Looking at that vid from the Russian dude on the ground in China posted yesterday, I was fairly impressed with the Chinese tactics, response, and ability to clear the streets. I cannot see that happening in America, One thing that would unite the races is both Shenequa and Karen will be equally shrill and refusing to cooperate if some gov'mint types DARE to tell them they need a pass to go outside and why don't they open another register these lines are unacceptable where is the manager?
 
So I'm not going to reveal my sources as some of it is semi-public anyway, but...

The NHS is being thrown into a full war footing as we speak.

Retired doctors, nurses and other staff are being given orders to stand to and be prepared to head to positions to help fight a mass outbreak. There may even be a quiet alteration to the law passed that allows people who've recently lost their qualifications (through retirement) may be given a quick refresher course to throw them back into the front line.

Also, while local hospitals are reporting "isolation rooms" to the public they're actually turning over entire wards ready for mass casualties.

They can apparently sidestep telling the public about coronavirus figures thanks to patient-confidentiality, so the figures might be a bit higher than possibly.

EDIT: This is apparently because of how quickly the Italians fucked everything up and they've decided to pull the trigger on the various civil contingency plans early and get ahead of the whole matter rather than wait until it gets like Italy and Iran.
 
I know we shouldn't panic but I really wish they can stop downplaying the fact that corona Chan killed 6 in a freaking day in the USA.
Call me skepitical but one has to be fucking scared over the fact corona Chan killed 6 in the USA. Where our healthcare in hospitals are a lot more advanced than say bumfuck china or name a 3rd world country.
 
I don't think the situation is as bad as people make it out to be. Big city society has went in the last decade all in for minimal interaction with other human beings so the amount of spread in cities will be limited. The big problem is the spread of food and gas but as long as you live in a place that isn't dependent on imports you should be okay. People will need to change their lifestyle but not to some extreme degree. Infectious diseases were always present and we at least know the reason for the spread of this one.

Also, why doesn't China transfer all its sick to their ghost cities?
 
I don't think the situation is as bad as people make it out to be. Big city society has went in the last decade all in for minimal interaction with other human beings so the amount of spread in cities will be limited. The big problem is the spread of food and gas but as long as you live in a place that isn't dependent on imports you should be okay. People will need to change their lifestyle but not to some extreme degree. Infectious diseases were always present and we at least know the reason for the spread of this one.

Also, why doesn't China transfer all its sick to their ghost cities?
that would take resources which china is running low on.
 
As much as the whole watch your language thing is stupid you have to get that they really need to peddle the business as usual pov. The virus is dangerous, yes, but more dangerous than it would be causing panic in a mass population. People lose all rational thought and many become dangerous in panic suitations, they need to prevent that from happening.

Downplaying severity, to an extent, needs to happen. They can't just keep reporting cases and drumming up fear as it spreads.

Keep alert. Stock up a bit as a just in case measure if you do happen to get sick or qurantined and properly practise personal protection.
You already see panic buying in places like Singapore. What a good idea, everyone get together in a crowded supermarket where a highly infectious virus is here. It's a balancing act. Can't have people decscened into panic and do stupid things, but have to keep the public aware and keep up hygiene standards and stop them becoming too lax about the virus.

What has been an issue is how lax the initial response has been globally. A failure to contain or use any real form of common sense. Now this genie is out of the bottle and is not going back in.

Keep aware, practice good hygiene, keep hands off of your face, minimize contact with other people/avoid travel if you can, take note of your symptoms.
 
Soo you guy think the Iranian Graves are real?
This is written in the description.:
20200303_130804.jpg
 
I've a direct source of information from and in Iran.

I can tell you with certainty it is a full epidemic there, and nothing is under control. They are boarded in. A relative has been taken away for care and they have no information on their status at all - aren't allowed to see them and aren't allowed to ask.
 
As much as the whole watch your language thing is stupid you have to get that they really need to peddle the business as usual pov. The virus is dangerous, yes, but more dangerous than it would be causing panic in a mass population. People lose all rational thought and many become dangerous in panic suitations, they need to prevent that from happening.

Downplaying severity, to an extent, needs to happen. They can't just keep reporting cases and drumming up fear as it spreads.

Keep alert. Stock up a bit as a just in case measure if you do happen to get sick or qurantined and properly practise personal protection.

I fully agree with a full blown panic being more dangerous than the virus, Butt by now you would expect to see some preventive measures , like: closing the red light district, some infomation about emergency supplies, what to do if you grandmother start breakdancing, things like that. But nothing, on the one hand we get some news that hospitals are preparing for an epidemic and an hour later we get an article that the number of new cases is down in china and peeps think its over ect. :stress:
 
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It's mostly economy. Technically there could be issues with recombination the more vaccines you add but really even those could be solved given enough time and money. But that "enough" could easily rival a small country's GDP, and take over a year. I already talked about how bad antivirals get in general. Now, the latest gen of vaccines seems to solve most of this but for now they're expensive, unreliable and take even longer to make so until we have the infrastructure to do them as expected we're stuck with this. As I explained before current gen vaccines and antivirals are known to be a bit of a lost cause, much like antibiotics, but we gotta keep em going for now because there's no better alternative. Welcome to biology, it gets scary.



Fucking lol at being considered an authority. Do take my word with a grain of salt as I mentioned before I'm just a mentally challenged student. But quick summary:

EVERYTHING mutates ALL the time. DNA isn't really fully packed ever, it fluctuates between thermodynamic states. So its constantly at least slightly getting damaged.

The reason unicellular organisms "mutate faster" isn't NECESSARILY (more on that later) how many mutations they get. There's actually multiple factors here:

-Somatic mutations vs germinal mutations: pluricellular organisms reproduce via meiosis, which is carried exclusively by germinal cell. (Eggs and balls.) So if most of the body (the somatic cells) get a mutation the descendants don't inherit it. Now. There IS ways for somatic cells to wind up as germinal cells, hell we've even found mechanisms by which cells from a fetus transfer to the mother, but these are the minority, most mutations just disappear with the individual. Compared to this unicelular organisms reproduce by mitosis which everyone does. So every mutation gets passed on. You can see how ALL is more than JUST A FEW.

-cancer and aging: the reason pluricellular organisms are pluricellular is because of extracellular signaling and intracellular differenciation keeping them that way. The most likely outcome of mutations is a disruption of this process, which results in cancer, which is simply an overgrowth of cells. This is why cancer is so hard to treat, it's your own body, and so hard to prevent, as we are really just cancers chained into human form, so, really, best we can do is keep adding mechanisms to chain this form further. (Welcome to biology, it gets scary.) These mechanisms typically result in aging. This is where it comes from. So basically. Pluricellular organisms get fucked when they mutate. By comparison the only thing keeping unicellular organisms checked is natural sellection.

-the nucleus: and now for the thing that does reduce mutations. The nucleus protects the DNA. In procariotes the external membrane has to pull that duty, which it does worse, in viri its the capside which is even flimsier, and prions have nothing. So yes there are more mutations going on in viri.

-useless DNA: finally. Most of the DNA is fairly useless when it comes to actual reactions in the body. This is good for us because these areas tend to be covered in low CG repeated strains, which means they are unstable, which means thermodynamically they are unpacked more than the rest and therefore it's where the mutations happen. The reason we like that is because since these areas have little to no function these mutations can be dealt with by the molecular mechanisms in charge of maintaining DNA stable with little to no damage to the person. As you can imagine, viri, which have generally less DNA than other organisms, have less of these areas. So most mutations do something for them.



>majority smokers
>really high pollution area
>impoverished popullation
>hatred for western medicine
>think licking shrines is a good idea
>poorly equiped hospitals

Fucking lol.



Here in spain they do the screening but they do mostly self quarantine everyone (outside of the autonomous communities that have high commerce), the reason for self quarantine as opposed to regular quarantine is simple. We still ain't got the 0 patient for 1 case, which started in mid february and every official model says this shit was here since at least mid january. Yeah quarantine is more for show than anything

Also spain update: got info from my medical union contact than gloves, masks and hand sanitizer are starting to run out. The sanitizer has been fixed with soap which makes things less efficient but what can you do. The gloves thing is being prepared to be fixed that way for cases where its not that important so long as the gloves are cleaned. As for the masks, some of the supervisors which got charges for political (*cough*nepotism*cough*) reasons have tried to push some exceptional fixes but thankfully so far the unions have been surprisingly efficient at telling them to go fuck themselves and getting the alert responders involved so the ISCIII can push the protocol along. The unions are as *ejem*political as the supervisors so usually they do little but recently a major chain of nepotism got excised by anti-corruption (after europe told them to fix that shit) and I guess between that, the recent right wing takeover of the south and the fact spain doesn't take emergencies like this lightly its just combined into hey-we're-kinda-doing-it-right-land... I do find some dismay at the logistical oversight but the chinks did clean civilian masks off the shelves so I guess after imports started being reduced it was a matter of time. Still expected them to suck a lot more. We should've told chink scalpers to eat shit when we could though.

Why is vaccine making this expensive? In fact why is western medicine this expensive?

I am not trying to be a commie. Are the machines involved made of very rare elements?
Do the virus particles in it need to be wrecked each individually by precision chemicals under a constant electron microscope watch?

Are the personnel needed both require numbers AND rare talents? Like nuke making? Like you need 2 digit number of geniouses for it?
 
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I fully agree with a full blown panic being more dangerous than the virus, Butt by now you would expect to see some preventive measures , like: closing the red light district, some infomation about emergency supplies, what to do if you grandmother start breakdancing, things like that. But nothing, on the one hand we get some news that hospitals are preparing for an epidemic and an hour later we get an article that the number of new cases is down in china and peeps think its over ect.
Dude, the gays threw a complete bitchfit over closing the bathhouses during the peak of AIDS. They fought hard against closing the places most known for prolific unprotected anonymous sex during an uncurable epidemic, and you think anybody is going to bring up closing red light districts nowadays? They’d be crucified.

And yes, six people dying isn’t great. But it was at a nursing home. For all we know it was six people who were already on oxygen due to emphysema, or had had multiple bouts of various pneumonia already, or were just heading down the end of life path and it ended a few weeks earlier that it would have.

Note: for all of you screaming this is the Stand in rl, how many of you lost family to the H1N1 pandemic of 2009. The one where it wasn’t even declared an emergency in the US until over 1000 died from it?
 
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