RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

Speaking of power levels, usually making a villain stronger than the hero raises the stakes and makes things very exciting. It's simple really, the hero is thrown into an impossible situation with barely any hope of winning, and it becomes very satisfying once they do find a way.

That's why something like, say destroying the Death Star or the One ring, are so memorable. But for some reason, that's not the case with Salem.

Salem is a bit weird in that they clearly tried to make her seem cool and philosophical with her spouting lines like "there will be no victory in strength". And she clearly has enough power to just win because she is basically unbeatable, so I question why she just doesn't do that.

....Yet she isn't that threatening in the slightest. If anything reading her origin story on the wiki made her far less threatening. Learning her motivations made me lose all respect I had of her, as now I know she isn't even that smart given that her motive is just a millennia old tantrum



Oh, and she has a cliche conquer the world motivation that even comic book villains don't use anymore.

You would think it's the fact that she is so overpowered that makes her boring, but, I've seen heroes attempting to win in situations that outright seemed unwinnable and even depressing, like Madoka, and to a lesser extent Endgame. Heck in the former, while it was airing, people were expecting a far more hopeless ending, but everyone was invested nonetheless.

I can't explain why she just doesn't work, but she simply isn't a villain that memorable or threatening. And in fact, she is just a big deal because she is very overpowered.
I think one of the biggest problems is that they sat on Salem for YEARS without doing anything with her. We didn't learn much of anything about her and Salem sat on her pale white ass doing nothing in her evil castle while her lackies walked around twirling their mustaches. She also comes out of nowhere and replaces Cinder immediately after Cinder made the first major move in attacking Beacon rendering the three years of (admittedly lackluster) build up to Cinder actually doing something feel like they didn't really mean much. Then after that Salem sits on her throne and pretends to be scary. And since it took several years for us to learn anything about her people weren't that interested. They should have struck with Salem when she was new to do something to make an impression. To make matters worse when we do find out her backstory it's.... awful. Salem, who many were hoping would have some kind of depth to her and not just be Ozpin's ex turned out to just be Ozpin's very angry ex who is monumentally stupid. So stupid that she got all of humanity wiped out. And in what feels like an explanation that came straight out of LOST Salem was.... made immortal by the gods? The whole thing feels so slapdash and when Salem is supposed to be THE main antagonist and the center of basically the entire plot having her be so poorly handled screws with a lot of things. Miles and the other writers seriously don't know what they're doing with this and it feels like things are meandering no matter what happens. RT seem to have tried to make up for Salem's lack of character by hiring a talented VA (Jen Taylor voice of Cortana in Halo) and relying entirely on her performance. They may have gotten away with that with Qrow but trying to rely on a good actor to make up for a badly written character is a very poor choice.


That is a lot of material that should be in the show itself. Lol no way am I shelling out for a guide book of a series I don't care for. The only thing I got from the show itself is that she wants to destroy humanity which used to make sense back when the only thing we knew about her was that she was Grimm aligned. Now we've seen her backstory revealing she was human and I think it warrants a more sophisticated... everything, not "beat da gud guys and rule 4eva".


Assuming that wasn't paraphrasing, I smell another retcon. Or maybe at this point it's not even deliberate and they're blatantly losing control over the story.

I thought she wanted to destroy humanity as in commit genocide, 'crushing Ozpin's forces and ruling Remnant' is not the same. Since when has she ever said, in the show itself, that she wanted the power of the Maidens for herself? Why does she even want or need their power when she's already a literal goddess capable of magic? Why can't she do a Cinder and travel around killing Maidens if she wants it so badly? And why does she want to rule over Remnant at all? She has nothing to gain from it and that runs counter to what was previously (sort of) established (not sure how much of this is headcanon trying to repair plotholes); she wants the Relics to summon the two God brothers so that they fail humanity with a big F and destroy all of creation (...again) as part of their bargain with Oz.

Can someone please explain this one detail about her backstory that I've been wondering about? So Salem amassed an army back when humans were capable of magic but got btfo, yeah? It says that all of humanity got wiped out, apart from herself. How exactly can humanity 'return' if all of them are dead and it wasn't because her and Ozpin had a ton of incest babies? It's not possible for her to set up shack "on the edge of a village" and "become known as The Witch" if there's nobody else fucking left to do these things. It's the same episode too, not Volumes apart, how can anyone not see how flawed this is? Did they just write one draft and go by that first pass without any editing?

I wish writers would finally learn that supplementary materials should not be required for understanding the main story. If they can't spend five minutes to discuss the main villain's motivations in a show that's been around for the better part of a decade that's just pure in competence. It can be a simple motivation but actually develop something for the love of god just give SOMETHING. Like you said there's no reason we've been given why Salem can't just storm everyone in Remnant with a zerg rush of powerful Grimm. I mean it seemed to work to take down Beacon so shouldn't that work everywhere? Why didn't she do that years ago? She's immortal so she can't be killed in an attack. She's got powerful magic AND control of a seemingly endless amount of man eating monsters. I'm sure this all boils down to "for the sake of the plot" like everything in this show is. Salem doesn't just stomp all over Remnant because that would end the story. God how do they not see how easily they painted themselves into a corner with their choices? Don't make Salem immortal, just make her really hard to kill. Or have them find some way to seal her if she IS immortal. Don't make Salem control Grimm if you don't want to actually deal with the ramifications of that choice. Give some real explanations why she can't just walk in an defeat everyone with a snap of her finger or don't make her that powerful in the first place.

Unfortunately this is just more of Miles and Kerry trying to use tropes they don't understand. The ancient powerful villain, the quirky miniboss squad who serve the villain, the tragic backstory of the villain, all of these are thrown in without any real thought and it's frustrating.

>1. They’re going to start writing chapters 11, 12, 13 soon! Almost done with V8. It’ll be more complex than V7 apparently? Miles said the aim is to make it more bite sized and approachable since V7 felt so BIG. All the writers wished there were more character moments in V7 too, so it seemed like they’ll try to insert more in V8. “More pairing stuff” (Idk if he meant romantic specifically or just one on one convos, but probably both)

It's just agony inducing at this point. Seriously, who needs "More Pairing Stuff"? That shit already ruined multiple characters

>2. V7C3 got too long, so a convo about faunus between Marrow and Blake on comms was cut (when Blake goes alone to the other side in the abandoned Schnee dust mine). A convo about faunus still might happen in V8 tho??? Miles’ wording was Vague

Meh, don't care tbh

>3. Someone’s backstory has been pushed three volumes, which made Miles REALLY frustrated, but I think it’ll happen in V8??? (Nora? 👀)

Won't mind it, but I know they'll ruin it

>4. Miles admitted that maybe being 22 years old and having two white men did not help with writing a complicated race storyline when RWBY began. It was probably “overly ambitious”

This is basically Miles gaslighting his shit writing skills onto being "22 y/o" & having "2 white man" in writing.

>5. Someone asked “What’s the biggest aspect that you share with your character?” Arryn answered last and was like, “I can’t say the thing I want to say!!! ……….. I like books 😔” (JUST TELL US BLAKE’S BI PLS)

How does that connect with Bland being Bi? Am I missing something here?

>6. (Paraphrasing here)
Moderator: “What’s the heart of the show?”
Dunkelman: “Well obvi since Yang has a flaming heart as a symbol. It’s me”
Arryn: Okay but I think someone already has Yang’s heart 👀

Thus one made me metaphorically vomit & is a goddamn proof that Sun may be getting a worsened Jaune & Neptune treatment.

>7. Arryn forgot Marrow’s name (and had trouble remembering what the ace-ops were called? 😂) and was like, “What’s his name! The hot dog???” LMAO. And apparently she has a crush on Neptune and Marrow? She brought up how good Ironwood’s butt looks lmao

Imagine only having & working 1 role (which she doesn't have to work on that often either) & not even knowing about the shit you worked on. Also, I'm surprised she remembers Neptune, cause the sgow definitely didn't.

>8. All of crwby calls Ironwood “Irondaddy”

That's just cause of the beard

>9. Dunkelman knew from the v beginning, right before voice acting for RWBY, that Yang’s arm would be cut off later on. Even the Yellow trailer foreshadows it and there’s a quote that mentions asymmetry :O !!!

This one has to be a retcon, I refuse to believe it's not a retcon.

>10. (Idk if I remember the exact question bc it was a long one) I think someone asked about whether there will be an exploration of Penny (since she’s not human) being marginalized like the faunus are? It was confirmed that they won’t go into that

This is just proving that her only worth is as the tin-can waifu.

And none of this inspires any confidence.
 

The fact that Miles uses his race and age as an excuse for his shitty writing, is hilarious.

Listen you Trump Derangement Syndrome Tool, if you suck so bad at writing a basic racism plotline (Something that the X-Men were the most famous allegory in Comics) everyone and their mother has done to death then it is your fault for failing spectacularly at this shit. Seriously, the Faunus plotline had no real place in the story and should’ve been a thing back in History of Remnant and maybe the occasional obligatory racist;but it’s been a drag on that’s hurt RWBY than help.
 
The fact that Miles uses his race and age as an excuse for his shitty writing, is hilarious.

Listen you Trump Derangement Syndrome Tool, if you suck so bad at writing a basic racism plotline (Something that the X-Men were the most famous allegory in Comics) everyone and their mother has done to death then it is your fault for failing spectacularly at this shit. Seriously, the Faunus plotline had no real place in the story and should’ve been a thing back in History of Remnant and maybe the occasional obligatory racist;but it’s been a drag on that’s hurt RWBY than help.
The White Fang plot could have served a purpose, and did in the beginning but the second Miles took over it became useless. It was Blake's entire backstory. It was interesting to see that despite the otherwise clean and friendly world of Remnant there was a darker side with insane bigotry. It wasn't developed much in the beginning but it had potential. But if you want to deal with political things like that you have to work on it. Adam could have been a morally gray antagonist that Blake would have conflict with. This could have showed a lot of different political aspects of Remnant. But Miles reduced Adam to being a psycho ex boyfriend who didn't care about Faunus and made the White Fang plotline a complete joke. Miles has nothing but excuses to try to explain why it's bad but the fact is that he's just incapable of writing a serious plot but refuses to admit it.
 
A lot of things the latter do and have done is short becoming the former.
Okay, I should explain more.

Because of the BLM thing going on around the hiatus of V2 and V3, RT decided to switch up how the White Fang worked to be more ISIS than BLM. At least that's how a theory goes.
 
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The fact that Miles uses his race and age as an excuse for his shitty writing, is hilarious.

Listen you Trump Derangement Syndrome Tool, if you suck so bad at writing a basic racism plotline (Something that the X-Men were the most famous allegory in Comics) everyone and their mother has done to death then it is your fault for failing spectacularly at this shit. Seriously, the Faunus plotline had no real place in the story and should’ve been a thing back in History of Remnant and maybe the occasional obligatory racist;but it’s been a drag on that’s hurt RWBY than help.

Welp. Miles Luna simply sucks at writing and I apologize for defending the writing.
 
That is a lot of material that should be in the show itself. Lol no way am I shelling out for a guide book of a series I don't care for. The only thing I got from the show itself is that she wants to destroy humanity which used to make sense back when the only thing we knew about her was that she was Grimm aligned. Now we've seen her backstory revealing she was human and I think it warrants a more sophisticated... everything, not "beat da gud guys and rule 4eva".


Assuming that wasn't paraphrasing, I smell another retcon. Or maybe at this point it's not even deliberate and they're blatantly losing control over the story.

I thought she wanted to destroy humanity as in commit genocide, 'crushing Ozpin's forces and ruling Remnant' is not the same. Since when has she ever said, in the show itself, that she wanted the power of the Maidens for herself? Why does she even want or need their power when she's already a literal goddess capable of magic? Why can't she do a Cinder and travel around killing Maidens if she wants it so badly? And why does she want to rule over Remnant at all? She has nothing to gain from it and that runs counter to what was previously (sort of) established (not sure how much of this is headcanon trying to repair plotholes); she wants the Relics to summon the two God brothers so that they fail humanity with a big F and destroy all of creation (...again) as part of their bargain with Oz.

Can someone please explain this one detail about her backstory that I've been wondering about? So Salem amassed an army back when humans were capable of magic but got btfo, yeah? It says that all of humanity got wiped out, apart from herself. How exactly can humanity 'return' if all of them are dead and it wasn't because her and Ozpin had a ton of incest babies? It's not possible for her to set up shack "on the edge of a village" and "become known as The Witch" if there's nobody else fucking left to do these things. It's the same episode too, not Volumes apart, how can anyone not see how flawed this is? Did they just write one draft and go by that first pass without any editing?

The God of Light automated the natural processes of Remnant because his brother would go into a rage and try to wipe everything out. The God of Light just decided to wave it off because "it would grow back."

Eventually the two gods decided to create Humanity 1.0 who had magic because the gods direct involvement.

After they nuked humanity off The God of Light explained that the natural processes would continue.

Humanity 2.0 evolved from whatever simians there were on Remnant.

Which means that Salem sat around for tens of thousands of years waiting for humanity to evolve.

The "Witch in the Woods" was because she decided to live in an area and could do magic.

Salem also had an empire. The fate of this empire has not been explained, whether it collapsed due to rebellion, natural disasters or Ozpin using the relics to nuke some cities.

Edit: Ozpin claimed his magic is dwindling. Salem might be suffering from the same problem. (I am aware that Ozpin lies.)

The relics are supposedly the physical manifestation of some aspect of humanity. Corrupting or destroying them might affect humanity as a whole.
 
Just reminding people of a fun-fact we all forgot, or just didn't care cause Miles is just that forgettable & irrelevant of a human being.

Apparently Miles is born Half-Hispanic
IMG_20200307_113203.jpg
 
Apologies for double post, but this had me thinking . https://twitter.com/voicingdragoon7/status/1237788280994873346?s=21
I disagree, but only because everything Ironwood and the atlas military does is absolutely correct and no soldier would question Ironwoods orders due to the amount of faith and trust they have in him. Of course i know that is not the brainlet miles intention, but i am going to beat the dead horse and repeat the mantra of Ironwood/Atlas military have done literally nothing wrong.

-Ruby and...lets just call them acquaintances because these people don't know shit about each other and are not friends, hijack an atlas military transport ship after refusing to hand over an important atlas citizen. Forcing Atlas to respond with force and the only thing strong enough was built with the intent of defending Atlas territory from giant Grim attacks. coincidentally, a giant grim almost destroys the city when Ruby blows said weapon up. Good job morons.

-Atlas is the only nation taking salem as a serious threat and developing weapons to bring her down. Requiring more resources and, importantly, secrecy as to not alert the spies they know she has. Ruby and friends blow the whistle on this operation to a complete unknown who was stealing Atlas military resources for god knows what reason. Then proceed to WITHHOLD vital information from someone who was not only a trusted ally to their former boss, but has shown nothing but Respect/willingness to help in any way possible.

-Ironwood works with everyone to thwart salem, prove penny innocent, reconnect the world through a new communication system and bring down papa schnee. Then is completely blindsided by the Ruby and acquaintances lies/leaking of VITAL information and correctly tries to lock all these dumb motherfuckers up before they fuck up anything else and bring in the convoy hijacking unknown who was told VITAL information to verify if she is loyal. He doesn't even arrest the dumb bitch, just brings her in for questioning. He then shoots the body jacking prick whose lies and deceit has fucked everything for everyone on the planet. This was a little extreme admittedly, but not unreasonable.

The soldiers see absolutely no fucking problem with these actions and the orders they were given because IT MAKES FUCKING SENSE!!

Regardless, going by actual military philosophy, it is fine to question your commanding officers but once the order is given the soldiers have to do it. The chain of command only works when everyone is following orders and sometimes you will never know the reason you had to do certain things. Sometimes you will be asked to die for your country and you just have to do it. The only thing soldiers have to go on is the faith they have in their commanders to not fuck them or their country over.

Without faith and a strict military hierarchy you get a military like Iraq's. Where soldiers and officers intentionally withhold information from those who need to know, retreat from easy victories, and bungle the simplest operations due to soldiers simply not wanting to do them.

Ironwood has shown nothing but patriotism for his country, respect for his men, and a smart head on his shoulders. Those fighting under him don't question his orders because of these reasons. I would almost say Ironwood is a brilliantly written military commander if it wasn't for Miles clearly wanting us to see him as the bad guy and completely failing by making him the most relatable, reasonable, likable and most importantly correct character on the show.

Ironwood did nothing wrong and the orders that every Atlas soldier are given make sense
 
I disagree, but only because everything Ironwood and the atlas military does is absolutely correct and no soldier would question Ironwoods orders due to the amount of faith and trust they have in him. Of course i know that is not the brainlet miles intention, but i am going to beat the dead horse and repeat the mantra of Ironwood/Atlas military have done literally nothing wrong.

-Ruby and...lets just call them acquaintances because these people don't know shit about each other and are not friends, hijack an atlas military transport ship after refusing to hand over an important atlas citizen. Forcing Atlas to respond with force and the only thing strong enough was built with the intent of defending Atlas territory from giant Grim attacks. coincidentally, a giant grim almost destroys the city when Ruby blows said weapon up. Good job morons.

-Atlas is the only nation taking salem as a serious threat and developing weapons to bring her down. Requiring more resources and, importantly, secrecy as to not alert the spies they know she has. Ruby and friends blow the whistle on this operation to a complete unknown who was stealing Atlas military resources for god knows what reason. Then proceed to WITHHOLD vital information from someone who was not only a trusted ally to their former boss, but has shown nothing but Respect/willingness to help in any way possible.

-Ironwood works with everyone to thwart salem, prove penny innocent, reconnect the world through a new communication system and bring down papa schnee. Then is completely blindsided by the Ruby and acquaintances lies/leaking of VITAL information and correctly tries to lock all these dumb motherfuckers up before they fuck up anything else and bring in the convoy hijacking unknown who was told VITAL information to verify if she is loyal. He doesn't even arrest the dumb bitch, just brings her in for questioning. He then shoots the body jacking prick whose lies and deceit has fucked everything for everyone on the planet. This was a little extreme admittedly, but not unreasonable.

The soldiers see absolutely no fucking problem with these actions and the orders they were given because IT MAKES FUCKING SENSE!!

Regardless, going by actual military philosophy, it is fine to question your commanding officers but once the order is given the soldiers have to do it. The chain of command only works when everyone is following orders and sometimes you will never know the reason you had to do certain things. Sometimes you will be asked to die for your country and you just have to do it. The only thing soldiers have to go on is the faith they have in their commanders to not fuck them or their country over.

Without faith and a strict military hierarchy you get a military like Iraq's. Where soldiers and officers intentionally withhold information from those who need to know, retreat from easy victories, and bungle the simplest operations due to soldiers simply not wanting to do them.

Ironwood has shown nothing but patriotism for his country, respect for his men, and a smart head on his shoulders. Those fighting under him don't question his orders because of these reasons. I would almost say Ironwood is a brilliantly written military commander if it wasn't for Miles clearly wanting us to see him as the bad guy and completely failing by making him the most relatable, reasonable, likable and most importantly correct character on the show.

Ironwood did nothing wrong and the orders that every Atlas soldier are given make sense
My only problems with them are two-fold:
1. Robyn wasn't on the arrest warrant from the get go.
2. The Ace-Ops girls trying to kill team RWBY when their orders were explicitly to arrest them.
 
My only problems with them are two-fold:
1. Robyn wasn't on the arrest warrant from the get go.
2. The Ace-Ops girls trying to kill team RWBY when their orders were explicitly to arrest them.
Well, arresting someone who just "won" an important election (why this election was important i have no fucking idea) would probably be a bad look. Bringing her in for questioning accomplishes the same task and he could have arrested her while being questioned anyways so whatever.

On the other hand, ace ops and team whatever both basically have super powers and would probably have to get pretty damn close to killing them in order to bring them in. Of course they had a person who could have easily incapacitated them without harming them too much, but that character had to be stupid and not use their OP ability in the perfect situation in order for the plot to happen.
 
Well, arresting someone who just "won" an important election (why this election was important i have no fucking idea) would probably be a bad look. Bringing her in for questioning accomplishes the same task and he could have arrested her while being questioned anyways so whatever.
By this time, Ironwood wasn't willing to trust anyone (and said so in the season finale that even the council he worked with couldn't be trusted), so arresting Robyn would make sense in his mind at this point. And the fact they end up doing so at the end of the season anyway kind of defeats the purpose of not having her on the warrant list.
 
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