Why is the United States of America specifically the target of certain kinds of globalist pseudo-altruism?

[heathercho]

@Iwasamwillbe because there seems to be this giant push to destroy western society or at least "flatten the curve" of achievements/wealth it creates.

There seems to be a prevailing ideal in leftist circles that the American/Western way of life is too indulgent and private wealth is "unfair", so in order to repair this "misdeed" everyone should forsake what they have, so that they're leveled out to the lowest common denominator.
If the lowest common denominator is an immigrant coming in with nothing but the shirt on his back, guess what everyone else should have?

This flu bullshit is pushing exactly that - give up your liberties, "sacrifices we must make" - all those focused talking points are the same as the above.

But when it comes to the crunch, these people never mean themselves to sacrifice.
Hence you have the progressive stack being so over run by men, who think they're disabled women or everyone is a POC all of a sudden.

They're just using non-citizens atm as a shield in order to achieve what they think is "fair" - the stripping of power/wealth from certain people they deem bad. If they actually cared about refugee issues, they would want them to stay in their own countries, they'd help them sort out their own issues so they're self sustainable and able to care for and thrive in their own nations, preserving their cultures in their own natural settings.
They don't care about any of that, refugees/immigrants and their needs are just devices to achieve what they want.

Hence why you have dimwit celebrities/twitter leftists screeching for open borders and health care for non-citizens even in a crisis and at the same time, all the while they keep giving reasons why they themselves shouldn't be eaten alive. As usual, rules for thee, not for me.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Pretty sure it's also true for eu countries, it's just that the USA people actually argue about those ideas (plus the media would never spread that people have dissenting opinions).

 

[Linako 2.0]

We Americans are more boisterous, young and optimistic, and the old guard doesn't like that.
It's basically nouveau riche on a larger scale.

 

[ZeCommissar]

Its the price of being a modern global hegemon in a liberal era.

We are expected to do the bulk of the fighting for other nations under our sphere of influence, whether we like it or not. We are expected to be the "world police" when it comes to nations threatening trade and resources like with what happened to Iraq and the Kuwait oil fields.

This also means we are supposed to be the "guardian of humanity" and "great melting pot" to the liberal side of our nation.

I can't speak for other parts of the world, but here in Europe, almost nobody hates America. More than anything, we pity your country for it's lack of basic economic rights, extortionate healthcare costs, weekly gun massacres, and the chronic stupidity which afflicts much of your population. We certainly don't want to be more like you, I assure you.

Shut up EuroNigger. If it wasn't for us you would either be speaking German, or more likely Russian after they got done kicking German ass. Do you think the soviets would have just stopped marching west if the US just shrugged it's shoulders and had 0 presence in Western Europe? Britbongs might be safe behind their channel and the laughably weak early Cold War Soviet navy, but the USSR had the capacity to do a far worse blitz than Germany ever did in the skies.

and we have fought in every stupid fucking war you started for no reason and slaughtered thousands in your name for no personal gain. Iraq, Iran, Libya, Kosovo and so on. You asked and we killed for you, that would not have changed if you would stop acting like exceptional children over there in lardass'ia.

Then again what would a bunch of penis cutters know. Not only that you doing it because some fucking religious nut bag cornflakes maker said it would stop masturbation and you still do it because you are to fuckign stupid to stop.

Even the fucking Trump's Chosen People and goat fuckers have better reason, but hurdur America got to cut the penis because of cornflakes.

Damn, Europeans are actually expected to help their ally in it's excursions instead of just sit there for 75 years doing nothing while their ally does the bulk of the work.

If your only big argument against the United States is "circumcision bad" instead of actual geopolitical points you might just be a retard.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Keep simping for the European Union all you want, but Angela Merkel still isn't going to have sex with you, pseudo-intellectual Eurotrash faggot.

Seriously, you should visit the United States and see what Americans are actually like, instead of listening to woke Eurotrash media. You might like it here.

We don't arrest people for "hate speech" because they laughed at a mildly un-PC joke or dared to have unhappy thoughts about Islam and globalism.

I have visited the United States several times, and I have family in several parts of the US. The rest of your assumptions about me couldn't be more wrong.

You are visibly very upset by what I have said in this thread. My question to you is why? Why would you take criticism so personally if you genuinely believe that said criticism is misplaced?

I find it ironic that you bring up Islam, because the reaction I'm getting from you here is eerily similar to the one I see from Muslims when people mock or criticize their religion. They claim to have an unshakable faith, yet in reality, they are invariably shaken by even the tamest disagreement. I think you should consider why that might be.

I'm sure Europe is great, but take your xenophobia somewhere else. You sound like a jackass.

It's not xenophobic to offer legitimate criticisms of another country. I don't take it personally when people criticize the legitimately dysfunctional things about Europe, and I don't see what good getting upset would do. It's not constructive to placate yourself with illusions of national pride when your country is beset with problems.

I don't hate America. Though it may not have come across in this thread, I actually have great deal of affection for the place, probably in no small part because of the family ties I have there.

What I dislike about the United States is the arrogance which underpins much of it's prevailing ethos, and how this blinds so many Americans to the ways that their country could be better. There are plenty of Americans that I personally know and care about who would be demonstrably better off with many of the things which Europeans take for granted (like universal healthcare, paid sick leave, a stronger social safety net, etc), and a major barrier to these things coming to fruition in the United States is an egotistical resistance to them among many of it's citizens. I don't think it's bigoted to suggest that America can, and should, do better.

I noticed your precise diction here. Saying "illegal immigrants" instead of "economic migrants from West Africa and 'Asian' countries", brought out as a result of open border policies, who make up more and more of the crime in Europe.

If we're talking about legal migration, the United States has more foreign-born citizens as a percentage of the total population than all but 6 European countries (there are 44 in total), and it has a higher crime rate than just about all of them.

Yeah, so? America isn't as soft on criminals as the enlightened realm of Europe. You're acting as if people generally just get thrown in jail in America for no reason.

Americans get thrown in jail at a disproportionately higher rate because the Corrections Corporation of America has spent decades lobbying the government for more draconian sentences. It has nothing to do with the US having a stronger or more defensible approach towards crime; the US has one of the highest rates of recidivism in the developed world.

K. So when we stop paying for your shit, don't come crying to us when Russia is buttfucking you, when you can no longer sustain all your social programs and big-brained socialized/universal healthcare without a massive increase in taxes (because US funding basically gave you a free ride on all of that), and when your welfare states finally collapse.

You obviously haven't looked at the figures, because the amount of money the US spends on European defense amounts to less than 0.2% of Europe's GDP. European countries could easily spend the money themselves, and I would personally welcome that.

Shut up EuroNigger. If it wasn't for us you would either be speaking German, or more likely Russian after they got done kicking German ass. Do you think the soviets would have just stopped marching west if the US just shrugged it's shoulders and had 0 presence in Western Europe? Britbongs might be safe behind their channel and the laughably weak early Cold War Soviet navy, but the USSR had the capacity to do a far worse blitz than Germany ever did in the skies.

Without Lend-Lease, the Soviet Union would have been significantly weakened against Germany, and the Western alliance with Stalin would have made a lot less logistical sense. I don't think there is any strong evidence that the Soviet Union would have advanced into Western Europe. Stalin was mostly concerned with maintaining his stranglehold on power, not with advancing a global agenda. He was a cynical despot, not an idealist revolutionary.

As for Germany, a weakened USSR would have made an Eastern expansion much more fruitful than a war with Great Britain. Britain was still a major naval power at the time, and many people seem to forget that the Battle of Britain was being won before the US entered the war (look up the cancellation of Operation Sea Lion).

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

If we're talking about legal migration, the United States has more foreign-born citizens as a percentage of the total population than all but 6 European countries (there are 44 in total), and it has a higher crime rate than just about all of them.

Legal migration in the US is not anything like the open borders of Europe. Don't even start with that bullshit.

Considering the Rotherham scandal, I'm not too hot on trusting European crime rate reports either.

Americans get thrown in jail at a disproportionately higher rate because the Corrections Corporation of America has spent decades lobbying the government for more draconian sentences. It has nothing to do with the US having a stronger or more defensible approach towards crime; the US has one of the highest rates of recidivism in the developed world.

First, define "disproportionately higher rate" in this instance.

Second, provide proof that American "mass incarceration" is so great (supposedly), solely because of CoreCivic lobbying.

You obviously haven't looked at the figures, because the amount of money the US spends on European defense amounts to less than 0.2% of Europe's GDP. European countries could easily spend the money themselves, and I would personally welcome that.

Bring up a source for that. Because that frankly sounds like an outright lie.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Americans get thrown in jail at a disproportionately higher rate because the Corrections Corporation of America has spent decades lobbying the government for more draconian sentences. It has nothing to do with the US having a stronger or more defensible approach towards crime; the US has one of the highest rates of recidivism in the developed world.

We have more incarcerations, and higher recidivism rates because we have more spics, and niggers.


Which is a problem coming to a theater near you.

Spoiler

Otago Muslim Association

Very interesting video. Only for Muslims. Please do not redistribute

web.archive.org

 

[wokelizard]

We have more incarcerations, and higher recidivism rates because we have more spics, and niggas.
View attachment 1196520

Maybe it's because black Americans tend to be poorer and have fewer opportunities. What are the crime rates, if you exclude perps earning below median income from the figures? You have more incarcerations because you have more poor people with nothing to lose, and they happen to be mainly non-white. Work on fixing that maybe.

 

[mr.moon1488]

Maybe it's because black Americans tend to be poorer and have fewer opportunities. What are the crime rates, if you exclude perps earning below median income from the figures? You have more incarcerations because you have more poor people with nothing to lose, and they happen to be mainly non-white. Work on fixing that maybe.

Edit:
I don't really know why people try to make this retarded argument anyway. Even the most broke motherfuckers in the US are more wealthy than most other nations' middle classes.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

First, define "disproportionately higher rate" in this instance.

I shouldn't need to provide you with the definitions of "disproportionate", "higher", and "rate". I was paying you the courtesy of assuming that you already know what those words mean, and I am not using them any differently to the way that they are commonly understood.

The United States has more incarcerated citizens per capita than any other country on the planet. It should be in no way controversial to point this out.

Second, provide proof that American "mass incarceration" is so great (supposedly), solely because of CoreCivic lobbying.

I'm not sure what kind of proof you would be willing to accept, but what we do know is that CoreCivic Inc, along with other private prison companies, has spent millions every year lobbying the government, and that lobbying has coincided with a rise in the number of incarcerations, as well as a lengthening of sentences. It's not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

If you want a more direct admission, there's this: in a 10-K form, submitted to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, CoreCivic Inc had this to say:

"The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by the relaxation of enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices or through the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by our criminal laws. For instance, any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them."

The powerful incentives which drive mass incarceration in the US are pretty clear.

Bring up a source for that. Because that frankly sounds like an outright lie.

Data from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (source):

US spending on European security amounted to $30.7 billion in 2017. Total EU GDP amounts to $18.8 trillion. If you work it out, that means that what the US spends on European defense accounts for less than 0.2% of EU GDP.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I shouldn't need to provide you with the definitions of "disproportionate", "higher", and "rate". I was paying you the courtesy of assuming that you already know what those words mean, and I am not using them any differently to the way that they are commonly understood.

The United States has more incarcerated citizens per capita than any other country on the planet. It should be in no way controversial to point this out.

I'm not sure what kind of proof you would be willing to accept, but what we do know is that CoreCivic Inc, along with other private prison companies, has spent millions every year lobbying the government, and that lobbying has coincided with a rise in the number of incarcerations, as well as a lengthening of sentences. It's not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

If you want a more direct admission, there's this: in a 10-K form, submitted to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, CoreCivic Inc had this to say:


The powerful incentives which drive mass incarceration in the US are pretty clear.



Data from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (source):

US spending on European security amounted to $30.7 billion in 2017. Total EU GDP amounts to $18.8 trillion. If you work it out, that means that what the US spends on European defense accounts for less than 0.2% of EU GDP.

OK Eurotrash

@Hellbound Hellhound in all seriousness, I will give you credit where it is due on how fucked our prison system is, namely due to the American tradition of life without parole, and how some states have abolished parole or abolished the death penalty, while the states that do have the death penalty are too limited in their scope and capability to carry out sentences for capital crimes and the prison-industrial complex has way too much power.

I'll grant you that we are excessive in a lot of our prison sentencing thanks to private lobbyists, and I personally believe that life sentencing without parole is unconstitutional and a violation of the Eighth Amendment, but Europe fucks up by abolishing the death penalty in addition to abolishing the excessive sentences.

Really, I think the ideal system is a system that has the death penalty for those who are clinically incapable of reform or rehabilitation such as serial killers and child molesters, as well as major domestic terrorists and war criminals, but also does not have life sentencing or mandatory minimums for non-capital crimes, and does have a system of parole for non-capital crimes as well.

Just so we're clear, I only support the death penalty for serial killers, child molesters, and serial rapists, since the pathology of those crimes means that the offenders are incapable of reform and for violent terrorists who commit mass murder, since someone ideologically committed enough to go for the high score is also unlikely to reform at all.

Murder in other contexts should ideally get sentence of of so many years depending on the specific circumstances.

Premeditated murder would have a much higher sentence than manslaughter while mass murder, political terrorism, child molestation, or serial rape and serial murder would get you the death penalty automatically upon conviction.

 

[Immutablederp]

Isn't Russia actively targeting the USA with opperations designed to enrage and divide its citizens? I blame Russia.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

I shouldn't need to provide you with the definitions of "disproportionate", "higher", and "rate". I was paying you the courtesy of assuming that you already know what those words mean, and I am not using them any differently to the way that they are commonly understood.

The United States has more incarcerated citizens per capita than any other country on the planet. It should be in no way controversial to point this out.

That's not in any way out of the ordinary when you realize that the US has a higher population than the other countries listed, and correspondently more criminals and people who commit crimes.

I'm not sure what kind of proof you would be willing to accept, but what we do know is that CoreCivic Inc, along with other private prison companies, has spent millions every year lobbying the government, and that lobbying has coincided with a rise in the number of incarcerations, as well as a lengthening of sentences. It's not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

If you want a more direct admission, there's this: in a 10-K form, submitted to the US Securities and Exchange Commission, CoreCivic Inc had this to say:
The powerful incentives which drive mass incarceration in the US are pretty clear.

Okay. I asked if the "mass incarceration" was so bad solely because of CoreCivic lobbying.

Even if CoreCivic and all such lobbying was the reason for mass-incarcerations, so-called "mass incarceration" is not inherently bad, and lobbying for such isn't either. This "mass incarceration" issue is far more nuanced than "lol American prison system bad", as @Syaoran Li's post should display.

Data from the International Institute for Strategic Studies (source):

US spending on European security amounted to $30.7 billion in 2017. Total EU GDP amounts to $18.8 trillion. If you work it out, that means that what the US spends on European defense accounts for less than 0.2% of EU GDP.

And this is point where I realized this entire line of argument is disingenuous.

Comparing Country A's defense spending on Economic Bloc B, to Economic Bloc B's GDP, is not comparing apples and apples. It's comparing apples to dragonfruit.

A better comparison would be to compare the US's defense spending on Europe to Europe's defense spending on itself, or even the European countries individually, in which it becomes clear who is pulling more of their weight in proportion. And it isn't Europe.

After all:

Defense expenditure is a highly sensitive topic in the region. President Donald Trump has repeatedly criticized NATO member countries in Europe for not respecting a rule that says 2% of GDP (gross domestic product) should be spent on defense.

And.

At a NATO summit in 2017, Trump ramped up that pressure by noting the U.S. had allocated more cash to defense than all the other NATO countries combined.

And, frankly, given the UK's exit from the EU, and the fact that Europe's economy is ultimately built on foundations of sand, I expect the actual disparity in proportional defense spending between the US and Europe to be even greater.

 

[AnOminous]

That's not in any way out of the ordinary when you realize that the US has a higher population, and correspondently more criminals and people who commit crimes.

Do you even know what per capita means? What the fuck.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

Do you even know what per capita means? What the fuck.

I do know. And I provided an explanation for it. There are more criminals due to the greater population than most other countries, so more arrests/detentions/etc.

What, did I say something wrong?

Edit: I forgot to say that there were much culture considerations in the amount of criminals in America as well.

 

[AnOminous]

I do know. And I provided an explanation for it. There are more criminals due to the greater population than most other countries, so more arrests/detentions/etc.

That makes absolutely no fucking sense and shows literally not understanding what per capita means. The U.S. incarcerates more people per capita than any other country by far, and how the fuck higher population has anything to do with that is beyond me, as the U.S. population density is vastly lower.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

That makes absolutely no fucking sense and shows literally not understanding what per capita means. The U.S. incarcerates more people per capita than any other country by far, and how the fuck higher population has anything to do with that is beyond me, as the U.S. population density is vastly lower.

Well I was thinking that the number of criminal elements in society naturally increases in tandem with its population, because more people, more criminals in turn. Also:

Edit: I forgot to say that there were much culture considerations in the amount of criminals in America as well.

 

[AnOminous]

Well I was thinking that the number of criminal elements in society naturally increases in tandem with its population, because more people, more criminals in turn. Also:

How the fuck does it cause them to increase PER CAPITA?

 

[Lurkio]

You know, America can suck at times, but fuck, Europe ain't no prize either and anyone who legitimately acts superior to another person simply because they're from another country is a colossal faggot and should be treated like such.

 

[Iwasamwillbe]

How the fuck does it cause them to increase PER CAPITA?

If there is a group of 1000000 people, and 5% of them are criminals, and all criminals get locked up, then 50000 people get incarcerated.

If there is a group of 5000000 people, and only 3.5% of them are criminals, and all criminals get locked up, then despite the lower relative proportion of criminality, that would still be 175000 people becoming incarcerated.

That was the general principle behind my argument. Especially since terms like "per capita" (which means "per individual") are meaningless in this context.