Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

On a side note, the new Filoni Wars episode replaced one of the old aliens from its original storyboards with a Disney one (Gosh golly kids! Don't forget Disney is good!)... Not too surprising since they got rid of the episode's original main character.
Which one I didn't pay attention, or care about the nu aliens to notice.
 
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Which one I didn't pay attention.
The wookiee with deformed penis eyes from nu-Marvel comics, Aladdin's Rebels and the Resistance cartoon who was very loosely based on some rejected ESB artwork that actually had a less fucked up head that wasn't 70% phallic eyestalks.
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She had a perfect sendoff when she left the Jedi order feeling betrayed, but Dave Filoni couldn't follow through and had to have her be the hero of The Clone Wars.
Her leaving the Jedi Order would have been a perfect way for her to exit the story alive and even get a cliche brief "she's alive" confirmation appearance post-OT. Something like this for example but more MİLFish.
 
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Sorry about the delayed responses. I finished NJO a few weeks ago, and have decided to get my ass in gear and start on the Dark Nest Trilogy. I hear the ride from here on out is a...polarizing one.

But it'll be creative and different, which is more than the current canon is. That's always the silver lining when it comes to pioneering into the EU.

For my money, the best depiction of Anakin was Genndy's CW when he goes through the trial to rescue those alien natives who were kidnapped and enslaved by the Separatists. What made it work so well is that you could plainly see Anakin was doing a good thing (rescuing slaves) but something was wrong with how he was doing it. At the end, you can see a moment where he pulls back from the dark side - and it's easy to see how he would would fail another time in the future. George should have capitalized on that and shown in RotS not a nightmare of Padme's fate bothering Anakin, but a war-weary man who just wants to bring peace to the galaxy - even if he has to do so on a pile of bodies.
Agreed. I really like the Gennedy Wars and Dark Horse comics depictions of Anakin. You really see the war take a toll on him, especially right around the threshold of Episode III.

One thing I love about the 2d CW is that they really feel like a galaxy wide conflict. You see battles at random-ass planets with maybe 1 named character in them and the climaxes of every season are those moments where TWO named characters happen to intersect and do battle.

Unless it's changed in later seasons, what I've seen of 3d CW and Rebels gives me the opposite impression. A galaxy-wide conflict SHOULD give a writer plenty of room to run stories without screwing up canon. But no, almost every time there's an episode, several major figures of one side or the other show up; like you could never have battles at 3 different planets simultaneously.
The timeline of events in TCW was always a bit screwy, at least in terms of how much time passes between episodes (weeks, months, etc), so the scale of the war was never really diminished for me in that respect. Someone out there took an insane amount of time to put together a timeline in which the 2D CW, TCW, and Multimedia Project are combined to form one really long, convoluted timeline of events.

It's not perfect, and the merge of a lot of events creates inconsistencies and plot holes, but I'm a fan of the general story and characters for all three projects, so I allow myself a little bit of personal autism in making exceptions so that it can all blend together in my mind.

I can 100% sympathize picking one version of the Clone Wars over the other.

Likewise the Rebels characters can't be helping out the rebellion in remote spots - they always seem to run into Thrawn, or Vader, or Inquisitors. Do they ever have just a random, mid-ranked Imperial officer pursue them for several episodes? Does a random bureaucrat ever give them a challenge?
Well, the difference I can accept between TCW and Rebels is that in Rebels, characters like the Inquisitors are actively looking for the main heroes after they start hindering their operations. Not to mention that throughout the OT, you have numerous battles where Luke/Han/Leia and Vader are on opposite sides in spite of the size of the conflict. I suppose you could trace that back to the franchise's roots as a space opera, in which the focus is on a small set of characters and the drama that unfolds between them. Rebels was made to feel more like that than TCW was, in many areas. It's not a perfect excuse, and shows a deficiency in the narrative competence of the story, but it allows for a lot of neat scenarios between the characters...something that, at the time I was watching Rebels, I wasn't getting from the ST movies. Those films break logic and immersion just like Rebels does, and the characters and scenarios at the center of them aren't even fucking good enough to warrant the compromise.

I will say, however, that there are lower-ranked characters like Agent Callus, Minister Tua, and Governor Pryce that give chase later on, but they aren't used anywhere near as much as they should be. And that's a crying shame, since original characters allow for more creative freedom and story immersion than shoving Vader or Thrawn up the protagonists' ass for the 8th time.

I mean fucking Durge is a badass that gives Kenobi a serious challenge in the 2D show - and he's just on a planet protecting a bunch of BANKERS! From what I understand, the closest equivalent the other shows ever gave us were Cad Bane (the bounty hunter?) and that pirate (hondo?) - and they were nearly jokes.
All TCW had was Cade Bane, who I thought was a cool homage to Lee Van Cleef (but that is abject bias from a mouth-breathing Spaghetti Western fan), but he lacked Durge's cool factor in spades. Durge in the Dark Horse comics is especally cool, and he even popped up in the Clone Wars-era Boba Fett Junior Novels, if I'm not mistaken.

You are completely correct, Ahsoka should have died in Rebels as a hero that saved Kanan and Ezra as she was cut down by her former master. Plain and simple. Give us the ending we waited for and give her a hero's death. That would have been best for the character and a pay off to 8 seasons (6 of CW, 2 of Rebels) worth of build up.

I understand why Filoni doesn't want to kill her. She is his greatest contribution to Star Wars, and I can understand the attachment there, but Zahn's greatest contributions to Star Wars were Thrawn and Mara Jade, and, well, yeah.
Beloved characters can retain their integrity and nuance even if they die. In fact, their death can add to that nuance and integrity, even if it isn't a hero's death or a blaze of glory. One of my favorite characters in the entire New Jedi Order story arc is Nen Yim. And let me tell you, I got really attached to this character and wanted desperately for her to survive the story, which only made the outcome of her storyline all the harder: her death is gut-wrenching, barbaric, cruel and degrading, all made worse by how much of an endearing and sympathetic character she was. But I would never call that death a disservice, especially because of the rage it inspires in other characters. She earned that sad death by virtue of her character, and the emotional response it netted from me was 100% earned by nature of her story. And I would much rather have her stay dead and her sacrifice undefiled than have her be paraded in stories she has no place in, a la Filoni with Ahsoka.

You are completely correct, Ahsoka being around during the OT makes no sense and just like the other countless force user characters they put into the Rebels show, diminishes the stakes in the OT and certainly dimenishes the importance of Luke (which appears to be the goal of everything Disney does now). It's irresponsible and selfish story telling and now they will force these same characters into the Mandalorian. It just really annoys me.
I'm able to denounce all actions with Ahsoka past Season 6 as non-canon anyway, since the Expanded Universe is the only continuity I take seriously (of which TCW is a part of), and Ahsoka's fate remains unknown in that continuity. Remember that Ahsoka is Lucas' character at the end of the day, not Filoni's, and any action taken with her past that point, past Lucas' intentions, is no more legitimate than Rian's efforts with Luke Skywalker.

The creator had nothing to do with it, and didn't even consent to it like the Expanded Universe, therefore rendering it the glorified fanfic efforts of other creators.
 
I gotta say, to see Mara Jade finally brought off the page is something I've wanted for years. To fuck her up by casting Brie Larson or making her some icon of a political agenda would make me sick. What a waste.

Anyways, I saw this the other day and got a chuckle out of it.
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I mean there’s always mysteries of the Sith and the Wii version of force unleashed

The funny thing is I think she was a good character, but this was a case of the Author's Pet ruining that. A character like her had a time to go due to her nature as a prequel character who should not live through it, and he refused to let go. In fact, he continues to force her in everything for money, making her actually annoying.

It's kind of how Spongebob became nothing but the Sheldon and Eugene Show. But with more pedophilia and overbudgeted wolves.


The kicker is Filoni already wrote 2 perfectly good send offs for her. The first being the season 5 finale of CW and the other being the s2 finale of Rebels. But no he just couldn’t fucking help himself
 
Right now the #1 article keeps fluctuating between Darth Nihilus and Starweirds. (Anyone whose played KOTOR2 knows who Nihilus is and the Starweirds have been discussed thoroughly in this thread as evil space drifting Dark Side specters)

Imperial Sentinels from Dark Empire keep fluctuating between 2 and 3. (They were the Emperor's new genetically altered guards on Byss during Dark Empire whose designs were based on the unused royal guard art for ROTJ and later the armor worn by Atha Prime, an old unused villain from an unused ROTJ sequel project pitched by companies in the 80s who was briefly brought back for consideration in the the sequel trilogy's conceptual phase)

At #4 is the bringer of misery and the big kahuna Sith Goddess herself, Abeloth, who hasn't held a spot like this since 2013.

And at #5 its the last surviving Sith God Mnggal-Mnggal. (Who I haven't discussed yet).

This is all shocking since outside of Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn and (until recently) Revan, no Legends article without canon counterparts have been able to reach the top 10.

This may have to do with 3 things, the continued rise in popularity for old canons stuff following Plan IX (which led to several old canon novels being sold out on Amazon), the rumor that the Starweirds and the old Sith Gods will be main characters in High Republic and that Darth Nihilus may be the "god" of the Nihl bandits (I'm skeptical about High Republic being the cause of this, otherwise the Imperial Sentinels and Atha Prime wouldn't be trending again since they have nothing to do with High Republic or rumors) or quite possibly the upcoming unofficial release of Supernatural Encounters: Expanded Edition which has seen quite a bit of traffic as of late.
It's good news to see the True eu get attention, but on the other hand it could be hacking. It's very weird indeed.
 
Well, while we're casting a hypothetical 90's-era actress for Mara Jade, there's no question for who I'd pick: Sharon fucking Stone. Why? Because if you have any passing knowledge of some of the gorgeous Japanese Expanded Universe novel cover art done by artist Tsuyoshi Nagano, you'd know that his version of Mara Jade is almost the spitting image of Sharon Stone (albeit with red hair). She has the right voice, and movies like Basic Instinct show that she could inject a lethal quality to her performance, which is essential for the Emperor's Hand.

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Ahsoka should have died in Rebels as a hero that saved Kanan and Ezra as she was cut down by her former master. Plain and simple. Give us the ending we waited for and give her a hero's death. That would have been best for the character and a pay off to 8 seasons (6 of CW, 2 of Rebels) worth of build up.

It would have been best for her in the scenario where she was brought back. It would be a very sad end as in its way her walking away from the war was a personal victory in its own right. So my personal "best" would have been to just let her leave in Season 5. The whole theme of TCW was the way the Jedi order itself lost its way through attachment (to the Republic and their role in the galaxy which they couldn't accept was gone and should be let go). Ahsoka and Yoda (at the very end) were the only ones who truly let go of the conflict and walked away. And thus were the only ones in the end who truly came to understand the essential founding truths of the Jedi which the rest no longer understood.

It's not to the point but I feel someone will question Yoda in the above. There's a beautiful three part arc where Yoda is seeking to understand how to become a Force Ghost and in it he finally learns to accept that the war cannot be won, maybe shouldn't be won. And that he and his order will fall. He seeks to understand what a Force Ghost is so that even when the Jedi are gone, the idea of the Jedi will persist. Whilst unlike Ahsoka he remains, to try and root out the still unknown Sith Lord, and because he's not going to abandon his fellow Jedi even though he now knows doom is coming, he still understands the galaxy is turning once again and he cannot stop that.

I really think Filoni did an extraordinary job with TCW. He took many aspects of the film that were only briefly touched on and thus not convincing enough by themselves (Anakin's transition, the economics and politics of the Republic) and filled it out with enough detail to give it verisimilitude. There are a hundred little details - whether it's Hondo remarking "so long as you don't pay me in Republic credits" hinting at the failing, hyper-inflating economy of the Republic; or Anakin beating the crap out of a rival suitor to Padme because he's unable to openly acknowledge their relationship and it maddens him to have to keep standing there whilst another man tries to seduce his wife. You get to see in TCW how the Republic is corrupted, how the Jedi fall and how Anakin comes to the decision that only by getting rid of the Jedi can there finally be peace. TCW is absolutely stuffed with things that enrich the films. And I love the show for that.

We wouldn't all be pissed off about Filoni's flaws if he wasn't so damn good in other areas.

I will say, however, that there are lower-ranked characters like Agent Callus, Minister Tua, and Governor Pryce that give chase later on, but they aren't used anywhere near as much as they should be. And that's a crying shame, since original characters allow for more creative freedom and story immersion than shoving Vader or Thrawn up the protagonists' ass for the 8th time.

This really helps calibrate Rebels that most of the opposition ARE mid-ranking agents and planetary governors. When we DO see Vader in Rebels for the first couple of times, he absolutely wrecks the place. And even though the main characters get out of there with their lives, they still lose in that episode. Goes a bit off the rails with the whole Sith Temple angle later, though. Personally I kind of feel that Ezra should have fallen under Maul's influence more. Would be interesting to see Kalen's fear and frustration as he realises the more powerful force user is taking his place in Ezra's life and not been able to stop it. Ezra could still turn to the Light at the end but they could have explored Ezra's dark side a lot more.

I'm horrified. Geena Davis, Julianne Moore, or Alicia Witt would be perfect for Mara Jade. Not Brie.

I haven't seen Alicia Witt in anything in ages. Used to have the hugest crush on her. Talented, too. Gets my vote for Mara Jade!
 
Well, the difference I can accept between TCW and Rebels is that in Rebels, characters like the Inquisitors are actively looking for the main heroes after they start hindering their operations. Not to mention that throughout the OT, you have numerous battles where Luke/Han/Leia and Vader are on opposite sides in spite of the size of the conflict. I suppose you could trace that back to the franchise's roots as a space opera, in which the focus is on a small set of characters and the drama that unfolds between them. Rebels was made to feel more like that than TCW was, in many areas. It's not a perfect excuse, and shows a deficiency in the narrative competence of the story, but it allows for a lot of neat scenarios between the characters...something that, at the time I was watching Rebels, I wasn't getting from the ST movies. Those films break logic and immersion just like Rebels does, and the characters and scenarios at the center of them aren't even fucking good enough to warrant the compromise.
No defending the ST here. Talk about wasted potential...

Well the way things shake out in the OT is that we get to watch what are essentially the 3 most important moments in the war. Some of the implication of them was that what made those moments so important were the intersection of multiple key figures on both sides.

So if you are going to do a series around or concurrent with the OT, you have a problem - you can't make anything too exciting or momentous because then the question arises: why wasn't this moment the focus of the movies? (Hence why Ezra time traveling is bullshit.)

The idea you would want is to focus on side characters who performed vital, but less flashy missions. Then the bigwigs of the Empire are focusing their energies on hunting down the Rebellion leaders. The problem though is when you try and make it too kid friendly, the Empire loses it's menace.

Really the show should have been about Mon Mothma and other figures we knew, but never saw many details about in the movies and their efforts to start the Rebellion. And f**** space-Aladdin
 
The timeline of events in TCW was always a bit screwy, at least in terms of how much time passes between episodes (weeks, months, etc), so the scale of the war was never really diminished for me in that respect. Someone out there took an insane amount of time to put together a timeline in which the 2D CW, TCW, and Multimedia Project are combined to form one really long, convoluted timeline of events.

I think one of the things that makes GCW so great is it only went for one season so didn't have an opportunity to trip over its own toes in regards to hoping around in time and space.


Her leaving the Jedi Order would have been a perfect way for her exit the story alive and even get a cliche brief "she's alive" confirmation appearance post-OT. Something like this for example but more MİLFish.

One of the best cameos.
 
It would have been best for her in the scenario where she was brought back. It would be a very sad end as in its way her walking away from the war was a personal victory in its own right.
Tragedy is sort of the point of war. We can't allow favoritism to dictate if a character lives or dies, not that we should go full GoT either, but from a writing standpoint, having her walkaway to do nothing of relevance for the next 30 years or become a glorified easter egg is not exactly a victory. And her death would certainly make Anakin's fall to the Dark Side more believable. It would show the reality of war, the corruption of the Republic and the Jedi that would force a child into a pointless war that they had no stake in. It would instill Anakin with more fear and paranoia, making his extreme obsession with keeping Padme alive all the more believable and mature than simply being a side effect of his mother dying. It would also make her lack of being mentioned in any prequel media or any media for that matter prior to Filoni Wars make more sense. She was never around for any big event or even took part in the reformation of Luke's academy like other surviving Jedi did. So death would've been the best explanation for that than simply saying that she was just content watching from some not-Dagobah because fans don't want to see her die. Favorite characters can die in SW, that's always been a thing, Chewbacca, Mara Jade, Anakin Solo, etc, their deaths all caused fans to become pissed off and mindlessly rageful to the point of sending death threats and whatnot, but deaths like those of Chewbacca held a great impact for the character in the public eye that was not aware of his standalone exploits, it proved that he was more than just a sidekick. He was a soldier and a hero in the end who ascended to godhood among wookiees. And I say this as someone who initially hated his death and Mara's.
 
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