[26-Mar-2020] Philip's 341 Creditor Meeting - When what should be 5 minutes becomes an eternity.

[FamicomGorby]

Remember when he got swatted? One of the cops could be heard asking what this was all about, to which another cop said, 'fucking gamer shit.' (Allegedly. Don't have the clip.)

I'm pretty sure when the cops were in there say "gamer shit" they were referring to the fact that Dave had gamer shit all over the fucking place in the CTcahndo cause he's a hoarder with a massive number of collectibles.

 

[DNA_JACKED]

Yeah, she's not really at fault here and I feel a little bad for her. Very few people would be dumb enough to lie to their own lawyer during their own fucking bankruptcy. Who would sabotage themselves like that? Only exceptional individuals like Phil. I think she's still pretty much in the dark about the magnitude of fuck up that her client is.

I don't feel bad for her at all, and yes this is partially her fault. She SIGNED that bankruptcy, clearly she didnt read the damn thing, or she would have noticed all the problems.

I get not reviewing the document without payment, but even a cursory glance at it shows blatant problems, like business debts for a business that doesnt exist, buying pet food for a non existent pet, incomes that dont match incomes listed in other parts of the document, a man that streams on the internet having no electronics, a business with $1500 in assets somehow hitting $5000 a month in expenses, a condo listed as a single home, ece. If I were a lawyer, even a cut rate mall lawyer, I'd still overview these things before signing them to prevent this exact situation, being stuck with an obviously lying/incompetent client. At the bare minimum she should have demanded more money for representing this trash fire.

If she is willing to sign off on this hog wash, she deserves to get raked over the coals for being a total idiot. "oh yeah, we just decided to mix them together" Under WHAT possible line of thinking does "mix business and personal expenses for a bankruptcy" make a single lick of sense?

She is an utter ripoff fraud of a lawyer, perfect for Phil. It'll be fun to watch both of them burn over the next 2 months.

 

[myone]

She is an utter ripoff fraud of a lawyer, perfect for Phil. It'll be fun to watch both of them burn over the next 2 months.

She runs a bankruptcy mill for a flat fee. Honest people who run into trouble and need her help go to her and she most likely gives all of them competent advice. I bet there's rarely any problem with their forms (because again, why the fuck would you lie to your lawyer?).

If you want to try to defraud the government like Phil does you'd probably need to pay a bit more for your attorney.

 

[DNA_JACKED]

She runs a bankruptcy mill for a flat fee. Honest people who run into trouble and need her help go to her and she most likely gives all of them competent advice. I bet there's rarely any problem with their forms (because again, why the fuck would you lie to your lawyer?).

If you want to try to defraud the government like Phil does you'd probably need to pay a bit more for your attorney.

"because again, why the fuck would you lie to your lawyer"

Think of the type of person that manages to drive themselves into chapter 7 bankruptcy. Not imagine the type of person who does this and thinks a cheap as chips bankruptcy mill is the right way to go. Doesnt exactly spawn the image of intelligence or honesty, does it? People seem to think I suggest she needs to do a full rundown of every piece of paper. She doesnt. A single 5 minute skim of the paperwork would have shown glaring errors that should have been corrected before filing. Professional lawyers who charge more then poverty level law mills never sign their clients paperwork before reviewing it. If you value your signature, you dont put it on utter garbage. If she cant bother to do a simple skim (or did and somehow missed everything) then that would explain why she is charging $1200 in a mill, working for figurative peanuts.

And since when is "we didnt think you would ask so we blended them together" competent advice? That is blatantly re.tarded. Especially for bankruptcy.

 

[Beetus Knuckles]

Any verification on the debt buyer? I’m not convinced. He didn’t sound professional, but there’s nothing that necessarily requires it. I’m honestly not sure if the “mini-miranda” required by the FDCPA applies to a 341 meeting, but in 100% percent of the proceedings I’m familiar with, interested parties identify themselves and their firm on the record.

The autism surrounding Phil is a double-edged sword. It might draw more attention to his petition, but the trustee might get tired of all the bullshit too and shut it down. It’s like the autistic boy who sperged wolf too many times.

 

[actually]

Any verification on the debt buyer? I’m not convinced. He didn’t sound professional, but there’s nothing that necessarily requires it. I’m honestly not sure if the “mini-miranda” required by the FDCPA applies to a 341 meeting, but in 100% percent of the proceedings I’m familiar with, interested parties identify themselves and their firm on the record.

The autism surrounding Phil is a double-edged sword. It might draw more attention to his petition, but the trustee might get tired of all the bullshit too and shut it down. It’s like the autistic boy who sperged wolf too many times.

Not yet. A document was proffered, but the image/file hosting was not working at the time. It has since come back up, but nothing has been provided yet. I'd like it to be true, but I won't be on board without some proof.

 

[Muppetmode]

it gets weird with sole proprietorships, they aren't under any legal obligation to have a seperate business account

But wouldn’t it be easier to keep track of what’s what during tax season. Then again it’s Phil

 

[ProvenWrong]

Any verification on the debt buyer? I’m not convinced. He didn’t sound professional, but there’s nothing that necessarily requires it. I’m honestly not sure if the “mini-miranda” required by the FDCPA applies to a 341 meeting, but in 100% percent of the proceedings I’m familiar with, interested parties identify themselves and their firm on the record.

The autism surrounding Phil is a double-edged sword. It might draw more attention to his petition, but the trustee might get tired of all the bullshit too and shut it down. It’s like the autistic boy who sperged wolf too many times.

Shut it down in what way ? Like giving Phil what he wants and he survives or she doesn't allow him to get what he wants ?

 

[Unpleasant]

(because again, why the fuck would you lie to your lawyer?)

People lie to their attorneys all the time, be it for criminal, civil, family, whatever court. Constantly. The attorney's job is to advocate for and defend his client while not knowingly perjuring himself. Ignorance of the truth, or putting forth their client's version of the truth, is often preferable to whatever the real truth of many matters is. Every attorney knows full well that they are regularly lied to by their clients. An attorney does not demand or require perfect honesty out of a client. There are times where it would be preferable (like now) but this isn't the first or the last time some idiot is going to try and conceal assets in bankruptcy proceedings.

I'm not going to suggest that this attorney is some incompetent boob who needs to be disbarred, but if you're going to sign your name to something or represent someone in a legal matter, you should probably be at least a little more circumspect in your review of the matter at hand.

That said, every judge, prosecutor, attorney, and courthouse janitor knows this, and knows that they will occasionally be caught a little off-balance as a result. It happens, especially when dealing with a population who do not have much legal experience and may not disclose otherwise useful information, or when they're just dumber than dogshit like DSP.

 

[mindlessobserver]

This was such an entertaining read/listen. Either this was one of the most well played gay ops ever or else Phil's creditors are posting on the farms. I find either scenario absolutely hilarious.

 

[Schrödinger's Kat]

Even if DSP is claiming that WWE Champions is a "business expense", I'm pretty sure a judge is going to ask:

1) Why did you spend thousands of dollars on one game?
2) Why did you need to play this game for your business instead of other cheaper games?
3) What proof do you have that you did this for your business?

And more. Even if they buy the "business expenses" argument, there is so much money invested in this one game that there is going to be follow up questions. They aren't going to shrug their shoulders and move on.

So I did some quick research on expenses. There are two types, Operating Expenses (OPEX), and Capital Expenses (CAPEX). From what I can tell, the bankruptcy document only lets you consider OPEX towards your business expenses. The reason being is that CAPEX expenses increase the value of the business, which you shouldn't be doing (or even able to do) if you are insolvent. You should be paying your debts instead.

OPEX is a recurring cost and not an asset. Like his Internet connection. Or his Xbox Live subscription. Or electricity. However, his PS4 and Xbox and gaming "equipment" are CAPEX. They are an investment in the business. They are used to generate revenue and they last for years.

So what about games/microtransactions? Phil has claimed in the past that if he spends $60 on a game and no one "contributes", its a loss to him. So, Phil's definition is that a game is CAPEX. In addition, Phil can go back later and play the game again without paying for it, so it has long-term value to generate revenue. It appears that his games are an "intangible" asset, something that has value but can't be sold or liquidated.

I don't think Phil can consider even the cost of games as "business expenses" as far as the bankruptcy is concerned. The judge will just tell him "don't buy so many games, and pay your debts instead". Only his recurring costs outside of buying games would be "ordinary and necessary" operating expenses. He can still write off games from his taxes, but they are not ordinary and necessary business expenses.

 

[lavrentiyberia]

Any verification on the debt buyer? I’m not convinced. He didn’t sound professional, but there’s nothing that necessarily requires it. I’m honestly not sure if the “mini-miranda” required by the FDCPA applies to a 341 meeting, but in 100% percent of the proceedings I’m familiar with, interested parties identify themselves and their firm on the record.

The autism surrounding Phil is a double-edged sword. It might draw more attention to his petition, but the trustee might get tired of all the bullshit too and shut it down. It’s like the autistic boy who sperged wolf too many times.

It's possible, but on the other hand—and this is different from all of the other authorities in Phil's past that have let his mistakes slide, YouTube, Twitch admins, etc.—she has a direct financial incentive to not let his fraudulent bankruptcy slide. Why else would she have been so tolerant of the circus surrounding this meeting?

 

[Kermit the Frog]

The meeting went horribly for Phil. He was completely unprepared for even the most basic questions, a clear sign that he went into this thinking he could pigroach his way out. Rochelle probably told Phil these things usually only go 5 to 10 minutes, it's no big deal dood. For most people there that was the case, with a couple exceptions (Yacht Guy). Rochelle didn't have a clue what she was getting into. They should have known something was up when Phil got moved to being the last meeting of the day.
Nancy did a very good job of giving Phil enough rope to hang himself with. That was the smart thing to do, you don't give the person you're questioning a chance to change their stories right then and there by calling them a fucking liar, you let them lie so you can use that against them later. One minute Phil is claiming that ALL electronics and subscriptions he has are solely for business purposes, the next he's admitting that the WWE Network isn't for business. Alright dipshit, how are you watching the Network then if all your electronics are not for personal use? Caught him in a lie there, albeit a small one, but it shows he's willing to lie about even the smallest of things.
The 6 months of PayPal statements are going to haunt him. Rochelle even said she thought just 1 month was enough and seemed taken aback by Nancy wanting more. The 1 month showed enough fuckery to raise a red flag, 6 months of fuckery would show a consistent pattern of behavior that Phil cannot be trusted at all. Phil never once mentioned Streamlabs in any of his paperwork, with hundreds of transactions going to his PayPal from there. He tried to semantic the discrepancy by claiming that "well dood it's liking a waiter getting tips!" by which he must mean it shouldn't count? I don't know what his logic there was. Trying to hide where exactly your income comes from is shady as fuck, to say the least.
Now that he's officially double downed on the bullshit, he can't weasel his way out. This isn't Twitch or YouTube where he can cry to some poor customer service rep and get what he wants. Phil could have avoided this disaster by filling his paperwork correctly and being honest about everything. Literally every single time Phil has faced off against people with actual power, he's gotten fucked hard. Couldn't whine his way out of foreclosure, couldn't semantic his way out of paying state and federal taxes, won't pigroach his way out of this. Phil is a wonderful combination of arrogant and stupid that allows for this to happen over and over again.

 

[Martys_not_smarty]

Another has a $1.5 million house in latin america

It was the property in Hawaii that was worth 1.5 million not sure about Latin America. That aside in hindsight yeah it's fucking hilarious how everybody else that was before him had real reasonable shit going on in their lives, multi-million dollar properties, yachts at yacht clubs, businesses going belly up due to corona and you got fucking Phil and the trustee is naming off his fucking toys, she just got done hearing about a 1.5 million dollar home in Hawaii and she has to hear about how Pigroach will only get twenty bucks for his 3ds.

 

[lavrentiyberia]

He tried to semantic the discrepancy by claiming that "well dood it's liking a waiter getting tips!" by which he must mean it shouldn't count? I don't know what his logic there was. Trying to hide where exactly your income comes from is shady as fuck, to say the least.

He seemed confused about the thrust of Nancy's questioning there, he apparently slipped into an entirely different argument that he's had before in an entirely different context, namely, whether or not tipping is mandatory (through emotional manipulation of the easily manipulated)

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next saga is an audit or general taxes saga (as always, the divorce saga is a matter of time as well). Not just paying back taxes, but legal shit. I'm listening to the "I'm like a waiter getting tips" part again and it's so cringeworthy. It's noted in many articles about bankruptcy that they correspond with the IRS. Phil is playing such stupid games, and for no reason.

 

[Haunter]

I wonder if the other PayPal account has all his tips in it, and she hasn't seen just how much money Phil actually makes.

Yeah, he has a second Paypal account specifically to keep his tips separate from Twitch and Youtube payments (I'd transcribed this explanation elsewhere):

July 28, 2017: "I just recently adopted accepting tips on, uh, while streaming on Twitch. I have the [?] setup that people can go to my Twitch page, click on a link, you can put it in, you can be anonymous, or you could put in your name and have a shout-out for it, and you can send me a tip. And that goes directly to a Paypal account. The Paypal account associated there is a separate Paypal account, for visibility on that, because I want that income to be completely separate from all of my other income."

(Youtube source)

Someone said it in another thread (sorry, there's four threads going on right now)

Sorry for any confusion. The size of this particular discussion needed it's own separate thing apart from the "Bankruptcy General" thread. There's been a shit ton of relevant posts in the "General Discussion" thread that I've moved here, if that's what you're thinking of with more talking going on elsewhere

 

[d8d0]

This was such an entertaining read/listen. Either this was one of the most well played gay ops ever or else Phil's creditors are posting on the farms. I find either scenario absolutely hilarious.

say phil is truthful, then this person is an idiot and lost money
say phil is lying, then this person has scraped this website for information and seen that phil is a liar and will be gaining free and easy money

 

[Sovegaard]

I don't think Phil can consider even the cost of games as "business expenses" as far as the bankruptcy is concerned. The judge will just tell him "don't buy so many games, and pay your debts instead". Only his recurring costs outside of buying games would be "ordinary and necessary" operating expenses. He can still write off games from his taxes, but they are not ordinary and necessary business expenses.

This is something I never understood about this part of Phil's logic, besides him obviously trying to write off/obfuscate as much as possible, but trying to say, "nah DOOD I have to buy all those new games because that's how I get my KAHNTENT."

Like, how legitimate would that argument actually be? He could technically just rent a game for a week or two, seeing as how often he just drops shit halfway or powers through it, instead of outright buying game after game after game everytime a new one comes out.

Whoops. I started thinking fiscally responsible there for a second, and where we are now we know that's not Phil's forte. I assume he does it for his "collector" (see: hoarding) mentality, but it's seems so arguable that he could maybe, technically get away with it.

 

[Perspicacity]

That was truly exceptional.......... On every level.