Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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I don't give a shit if people intentionally get coronavirus and die due to their own stupidity. It's the fact that it's an easily transmittable disease that you can potentially spread to dozens people that bothers me. See my earlier argument about anti-vaxxers. If you're endangering the public health, it ceases to be about just you and your body and you deserve to get shit on for your choices.

Sure, mock people who intentionally get the disease and end up spreading it due to being stupid, and mock anti-vaxxers for the same. Kiwi Farms forms a large part of its existence around mocking people who do stupid things that endanger themselves and others. It's simply important that people maintain the freedom to do things that get them mocked and may endanger others. If you lose freedom because someone decides that you're endangering yourself and you may also endanger someone else because of it, you don't have any freedom at all. You end up with the CCP censoring the doctor who warned about the coronavirus because he was 'spreading panic'.

Note: there is a difference between "endangering yourself, potentially getting sick and potentially getting someone else sick", and "getting sick, intentionally or otherwise, and then intentionally going out and trying to get other people sick". That's the general line between 'you're doing something stupid and reckless' and 'you're committing a crime'.
 
Sure, mock people who intentionally get the disease and end up spreading it due to being stupid, and mock anti-vaxxers for the same. Kiwi Farms forms a large part of its existence around mocking people who do stupid things that endanger themselves and others. It's simply important that people maintain the freedom to do things that get them mocked and may endanger others. If you lose freedom because someone decides that you're endangering yourself and you may also endanger someone else because of it, you don't have any freedom at all.
So your argument is that people should be allowed to behave in ways contrary to public health simply 'for the lulz' because we can make fun of them?

Actually, makes sense to me. Much more reasonable than all these 'muh economy' posters.
 
So your argument is that people should be allowed to behave in ways contrary to public health simply 'for the lulz' because we can make fun of them?

Actually, makes sense to me. Much more reasonable than all these 'muh economy' posters.
My main problem with the economy posters is.... well, isn't the economy already fucked no matter what happens at this point? Trying to cover up bad news just ends up breaking down the longer this goes on, and then the markets tumble anyway as they would have in the first place.

Of course, it probably doesn't help that many of those posters, at least the ones on /biz/ anyway, conflated potential treatment of corona with a miracle cure and actually thought the worst was over instead of realizing it was only beginning.
 
Sure, mock people who intentionally get the disease and end up spreading it due to being stupid, and mock anti-vaxxers for the same. Kiwi Farms forms a large part of its existence around mocking people who do stupid things that endanger themselves and others. It's simply important that people maintain the freedom to do things that get them mocked and may endanger others. If you lose freedom because someone decides that you're endangering yourself and you may also endanger someone else because of it, you don't have any freedom at all. You end up with the CCP censoring the doctor who warned about the coronavirus because he was 'spreading panic'.

Note: there is a difference between "endangering yourself, potentially getting sick and potentially getting someone else sick", and "getting sick, intentionally or otherwise, and then intentionally going out and trying to get other people sick". That's the general line between 'you're doing something stupid and reckless' and 'you're committing a crime'.
WTF? This is the most worst crock of shit I've ever read on Kiwi yet.

You do know that there's Reckless Endangerment laws??
 


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At this point I think they're just fucking TRYING to piss off everyone else.
 
Sure, mock people who intentionally get the disease and end up spreading it due to being stupid, and mock anti-vaxxers for the same. Kiwi Farms forms a large part of its existence around mocking people who do stupid things that endanger themselves and others. It's simply important that people maintain the freedom to do things that get them mocked and may endanger others. If you lose freedom because someone decides that you're endangering yourself and you may also endanger someone else because of it, you don't have any freedom at all. You end up with the CCP censoring the doctor who warned about the coronavirus because he was 'spreading panic'.

Note: there is a difference between "endangering yourself, potentially getting sick and potentially getting someone else sick", and "getting sick, intentionally or otherwise, and then intentionally going out and trying to get other people sick". That's the general line between 'you're doing something stupid and reckless' and 'you're committing a crime'.
Yeah, I'm with @Aberforth on this. The government is already tracking you using your cellphone's GPS to see if you're complying with their social distancing house arrest decrees. This is an authoritarian dream come true, an entire planet of panicked people voluntarily sequestering themselves to the point few have the time or the inclination to question this incredible and unprecedented invasion of privacy and surveillance. In addition, there's very little evidence such tracking will assist in the containment of the virus unless coercive measures are taken, as is the case in a totalitarian society like China. Not a single politician will willingly give up these new powers when we have a treatment and vaccine for the coronavirus.

We already have a protocol in place when another Typhoid Mary comes along so there's no reason to enact dystopian surveillance measures. The only reason people aren't familiar with hygiene laws is that degenerates campaigned against them when they were used to close down gay bathhouses during the early days of the AIDS epidemic. Laws and resources to safeguard public health were tossed away because some rainbow fag's feelings might get hurt. This is the result; an even more invasive method of surveillance.
 
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WTF? This is the most worst crock of shit I've ever read on Kiwi yet.

You do know that there's Reckless Endangerment laws??

They don't apply to a situation like "You MAY get sick, and if you get sick, you MAY get someone else sick, and they MAY be harmed because of that."

Because that's insane.
 
Outside China:

853,456 confirmed / 43,493 dead / 117,295 recovered

775,208 / 38798 / 101,828 yesterday

Iran:

47593 confirmed / 3036 dead / 15473 recovered

44605 / 2898 / 14656 yesterday

USA:

215,417 confirmed / 5,116 dead / 8,566 recovered JohnHopkins
215,455 confirmed / 5,127 dead / 8,566 recovered Infection2020

188172 / 3873 / 7024 yesterday Johnhopkins
188831 / 3904 / 7068 yesterday Infection2020

Spain:

104,118 confirmed / 9,387 dead / 22,647 recovered

95923 / 8464 / 19259 yesterday

Italy:

110,574 confirmed / 13,155 dead / 16,847 recovered

105792 / 12428 / 15729 yesterday

France:

57,749 confirmed / 4,043 dead / 11,055 recovered

52827 / 3532 / 9513 yesterday

Germany

77,872 confirmed / 931 dead / 18,700 recovered

71808 / 755 / 16100 yesterday
At the current rate of increase it will take the entire year for the death toll from the Chinese Virus to reach the death toll of the Chicano Cough from 2009. Really makes u think.
 
My main problem with the economy posters is.... well, isn't the economy already fucked no matter what happens at this point? Trying to cover up bad news just ends up breaking down the longer this goes on, and then the markets tumble anyway as they would have in the first place.

Of course, it probably doesn't help that many of those posters, at least the ones on /biz/ anyway, conflated potential treatment of corona with a miracle cure and actually thought the worst was over instead of realizing it was only beginning.
Indeed. Noone should dispute that government intervention in the economy is necessary.

It's still entirely possible for noone to seriously suffer. How much of US GDP went to war production in WW2, without people starving in the streets? I understand it was more than 1/3. That money, if you listen to followers of Mises and other cults, vanished into thin air. Wasted. But nobody actually died as a result! A libertarian miracle!

Really, it all depends on whether the aid is actually directed at supporting small and medium sized businesses that should survive, rather than padding the pockets of speculators who have no loyalty to their nation. Let's face it- if the bailout was intended to help Americans, rather than bankers, would those bailouts be required to be secret for six months, coincidentally until after the 2020 Presidential election? Of course not.
 
They don't apply to a situation like "You MAY get sick, and if you get sick, you MAY get someone else sick, and they MAY be harmed because of that."
Because that's insane.
I believe that will actually fall under Conduct in Reckless Disregard. Unknowingly, or knowingly, intentionally or not spreading the gift, is basically a conduct that disregards to the health, safety and rights of others
 
Rate me late if this got posted already, got sent this from a friend of a friend. It appears to be a text dump from somewhere else, but I’m having a hard time finding the source - any google experts wanna lend a hand?

I am an ER MD in New Orleans. Every one of my colleagues have now seen several hundred Covid 19 patients and this is what I think I know.

Clinical course is predictable.
2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start. Common are fever, headache, dry cough, myalgias(back pain), nausea without vomiting, abdominal discomfort with some diarrhea, loss of smell, anorexia, fatigue.

Day 5 of symptoms- increased SOB, and bilateral viral pneumonia from direct viral damage to lung parenchyma.

Day 10- Cytokine storm leading to acute ARDS and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.

81% mild symptoms, 14% severe symptoms requiring hospitalization, 5% critical.

Patient presentation is varied. Patients are coming in hypoxic (even 75%) without dyspnea. I have seen Covid patients present with encephalopathy, renal failure from dehydration, DKA. I have seen the bilateral interstitial pneumonia on the xray of the asymptomatic shoulder dislocation or on the CT's of the (respiratory) asymptomatic polytrauma patient. Essentially if they are in my ER, they have it. Seen three positive flu swabs in 2 weeksand all three had Covid 19 as well. Somehow this ***** has told all other disease processes to get out of town.

China reported 15% cardiac involvement. I have seen covid 19 patients present with myocarditis, pericarditis, new onset CHF and new onset atrial fibrillation. I still order a troponin, but no cardiologist will treat no matter what the number in a suspected Covid 19 patient. Even our non covid 19 STEMIs at all of our facilities are getting TPA in the ED and rescue PCI at 60 minutes only if TPA fails.

Diagnostic
CXR- bilateral interstitial pneumonia (anecdotally starts most often in the RLL so bilateral on CXR is not required). The hypoxia does not correlate with the CXR findings. Their lungs do not sound bad. Keep your stethoscope in your pocket and evaluate with your eyes and pulse ox.

Labs- WBC low, Lymphocytes low, platelets lower then their normal, Procalcitonin normal in 95%
CRP and Ferritin elevated most often. CPK, D-Dimer, LDH, Alk Phos/AST/ALT commonly elevated.
Notice D-Dimer- I would be very careful about CT PE these patients for their hypoxia. The patients receiving IV contrast are going into renal failure and on the vent sooner.

Basically, if you have a bilateral pneumonia with normal to low WBC, lymphopenia, normal procalcitonin, elevated CRP and ferritin- you have covid-19 and do not need a nasal swab to tell you that.

A ratio of absolute neutrophil count to absolute lymphocyte count greater than 3.5 may be the highest predictor of poor outcome. the UK is automatically intubating these patients for expected outcomes regardless of their clinical presentation.

An elevated Interleukin-6 (IL6) is an indicator of their cytokine storm. If this is elevated watch these patients closely with both eyes.

Other factors that appear to be predictive of poor outcomes are thrombocytopenia and LFTs 5x upper limit of normal.

Disposition
I had never discharged multifocal pneumonia before. Now I personally do it 12-15 times a shift. 2 weeks ago we were admitting anyone who needed supplemental oxygen. Now we are discharging with oxygen if the patient is comfortable and oxygenating above 92% on nasal cannula. We have contracted with a company that sends a paramedic to their home twice daily to check on them and record a pulse ox. We know many of these patients will bounce back but if it saves a bed for a day we have accomplished something. Obviously we are fearful some won't make it back.

We are a small community hospital. Our 22 bed ICU and now a 4 bed Endoscopy suite are all Covid 19. All of these patients are intubated except one. 75% of our floor beds have been cohorted into covid 19 wards and are full. We are averaging 4 rescue intubations a day on the floor. We now have 9 vented patients in our ER transferred down from the floor after intubation.

Luckily we are part of a larger hospital group. Our main teaching hospital repurposed space to open 50 new Covid 19 ICU beds this past Sunday so these numbers are with significant decompression. Today those 50 beds are full. They are opening 30 more by Friday. But even with the "lockdown", our AI models are expecting a 200-400% increase in covid 19 patients by 4/4/2020.

Treatment
Supportive

worldwide 86% of covid 19 patients that go on a vent die. Seattle reporting 70%. Our hospital has had 5 deaths and one patient who was extubated. Extubation happens on day 10 per the Chinese and day 11 per Seattle.

Plaquenil which has weak ACE2 blockade doesn't appear to be a savior of any kind in our patient population. Theoretically, it may have some prophylactic properties but so far it is difficult to see the benefit to our hospitalized patients, but we are using it and the studies will tell. With Plaquenil's potential QT prolongation and liver toxic effects (both particularly problematic in covid 19 patients), I am not longer selectively prescribing this medication as I stated on a previous post.

We are also using Azithromycin, but are intermittently running out of IV.

Do not give these patient's standard sepsis fluid resuscitation. Be very judicious with the fluids as it hastens their respiratory decompensation. Outside the DKA and renal failure dehydration, leave them dry.

Proning vented patients significantly helps oxygenation. Even self proning the ones on nasal cannula helps.

Vent settings- Usual ARDS stuff, low volume, permissive hypercapnia, etc. Except for Peep of 5 will not do. Start at 14and you may go up to 25 if needed.

Do not use Bipap- it does not work well and is a significant exposure risk with high levels of aerosolized virus to you and your staff. Even after a cough or sneeze this virus can aerosolize up to 3 hours.

The same goes for nebulizer treatments. Use MDI. you can give 8-10 puffs at one time of an albuterol MDI. Use only if wheezing which isn't often with covid 19. If you have to give a nebulizer must be in a negative pressure room; and if you can, instruct the patient on how to start it after you leave the room.

Do not use steroids, it makes this worse. Push out to your urgent cares to stop their usual practice of steroid shots for their URI/bronchitis.

We are currently out of Versed, Fentanyl, and intermittently Propofol. Get the dosing of Precedex and Nimbex back in your heads.

One of my colleagues who is a 31 yo old female who graduated residency last may with no health problems and normal BMI is out with the symptoms and an SaO2 of 92%. She will be the first of many.

I PPE best I have. I do wear a MaxAir PAPR the entire shift. I do not take it off to eat or drink during the shift. I undress in the garage and go straight to the shower. My wife and kids fled to her parents outside Hattiesburg. The stress and exposure at work coupled with the isolation at home is trying. But everyone is going through something right now. Everyone is scared; patients and employees. But we are the leaders of that emergency room. Be nice to your nurses and staff. Show by example how to tackle this crisis head on. Good luck to us all.

TL;DR - Roughly an 80% death rate if you’re on a vent. Fluids and steroids can actually fuck you up worse. Stuff seems scary, but a majority of people recover from this stuff okay. Stay strong, kiwis ❤
 
Does anybody else feel bad for the kids?

By kids, I mean the under 13 crowd?

Last summer pools, picnics, sports. This fall, school, learning exciting things, like learning to read, meeting friends .... Christmas seeing their favorite aunts, uncles and cousins ... grandparents if they aren't too freaky ...

Spring school, more restaurants and walks. .. then mid March everything comes to a screeching halt. They sit at home and their developing minds and bodies are suddenly separated from their peers ...

It also sucks for adolescents and young adults who want to spread their wings and fly a bit. Meet other young people, paint the town red .. For those of you who are like over 35, how would you have taken this sudden shut-down?

I also worry about their future. What jobs will be in place for them when they graduate?

I am afraid that this shut down of the entire world (except for basically plumbing and agriculture) will have ripples into the indefinite future.

I feel bad because I foresee that we can't provide a youth and young adulthood for these youngsters, that our generations did.

And babies born in the next few months will be pushed out of their mother's wombs, into a COVID ward.

Forget about the warm welcome and the community bonding with the baby. They will be shuttled from the Hospital to quarantine in their homes.

I know that it could be worse. You could have a game of ring-around-a-rosie interrupted by air strikes. I got that. I feel bad for people in those situations too.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8140517/Fewer-patients-treated-respirators-aged-SIXTY.html

Is this real?
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Shalom goy, you're over 60 and you're coofing to death, we will make sure your family gets the time to say goodbye to you, G-d bless.
If it's 2012, I'd think it's one of those Onion pieces or some funny clickbait from "worldnews". But it's 2020 and we have troon babies, so anything can be real.

If this is true, then well done Italy, you're officially orders more brutal than slants will ever be. I hope it's fake or overblown.

TL;DR - Roughly an 80% death rate if you’re on a vent. Fluids and steroids can actually fuck you up worse. Stuff seems scary, but a majority of people recover from this stuff okay. Stay strong, kiwis ❤
Why 80% now? Didn't China show that sucking out all the gunk that's accumulated effectively drops the death rate from 80% to like sub 10%? Dr Otter even calls this a "routine practice", so medical professions must be aware... right?

People on vents did have an 80% death rate when the virus circulated in China. They later used some weird things to suck out the shit that's causing the deaths. It's said that majority of deaths on vents are actually due to suffocation, not Coronachan. China also used some kind of CTM that melts the gunk. I don't know the name, but that's one of the CTM stuff I've actually had personal success with, it's as good as western medicine that aims to do the same.
 
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8140517/Fewer-patients-treated-respirators-aged-SIXTY.html

Is this real?
View attachment 1212252
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View attachment 1212254

Shalom goy, you're over 60 and you're coofing to death, we will make sure your family gets the time to say goodbye to you, G-d bless.
If it's 2012, I'd think it's one of those Onion pieces or some funny clickbait from "worldnews". But it's 2020 and we have troon babies, so anything can be real.

If this is true, then well done Italy, you're officially orders more brutal than slants will ever be. I hope it's fake or overblown.


Why 80% now? Didn't China show that sucking out all the gunk that's accumulated effectively drops the death rate from 80% to like sub 10%? Dr Otter even calls this a "routine practice", so medical professions must be aware... right?

People on vents did have an 80% death rate when the virus circulated in China. They later used some weird things to suck out the shit that's causing the deaths. It's said that majority of deaths on vents are actually due to suffocation, not Coronachan. China also used some kind of CTM that melts the gunk. I don't know the name, but that's one of the CTM stuff I've actually had personal success with, it's as good as western medicine that aims to do the same.
Hopefully there's a distinction between "wont treat all" and "wont treat any". I wonder how many long term coma vegetables there are in the world using up ventilators and hospital beds.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8140517/Fewer-patients-treated-respirators-aged-SIXTY.html

Is this real?
View attachment 1212252
(No, I will not turn off my adblocker)
View attachment 1212254

Shalom goy, you're over 60 and you're coofing to death, we will make sure your family gets the time to say goodbye to you, G-d bless.
If it's 2012, I'd think it's one of those Onion pieces or some funny clickbait from "worldnews". But it's 2020 and we have troon babies, so anything can be real.

If this is true, then well done Italy, you're officially orders more brutal than slants will ever be. I hope it's fake or overblown.


Why 80% now? Didn't China show that sucking out all the gunk that's accumulated effectively drops the death rate from 80% to like sub 10%? Dr Otter even calls this a "routine practice", so medical professions must be aware... right?

People on vents did have an 80% death rate when the virus circulated in China. They later used some weird things to suck out the shit that's causing the deaths. It's said that majority of deaths on vents are actually due to suffocation, not Coronachan. China also used some kind of CTM that melts the gunk. I don't know the name, but that's one of the CTM stuff I've actually had personal success with, it's as good as western medicine that aims to do the same.

I hope that your source is bullshit. Nobody over 60 gets a vent?

That is an arbitrary cut-off. It should be based on how likely a person is to benefit from being on one in the first place. What if you have to choose between an otherwise robust 62 year old, and a 45 year old with a preexisting heart condition?

Another issue is, so this 45 year old guy survives covid, but dies of congestive heart failure after 5 years ....

Or what if it is between a 65 year old biomedical researcher, and a 45 year old schizophrenic who has a poor history of med compliance? Whose survival would benefit humanity more? Nothing against schizophrenics of course.

I don't know how this works but I hope your source is off.
 
It also sucks for adolescents and young adults who want to spread their wings and fly a bit. Meet other young people, paint the town red .. For those of you who are like over 35, how would you have taken this sudden shut-down?

I also worry about their future. What jobs will be in place for them when they graduate?

I am afraid that this shut down of the entire world (except for basically plumbing and agriculture) will have ripples into the indefinite future.

I feel bad because I foresee that we can't provide a youth and young adulthood for these youngsters, that our generations did.

I feel worse for teens and young adults (15-25 or so). An economic downturn would be catastrophic for them, with lifelong repercussions. They probably have even more student loan debt than the benighted 2008 college grad millennials. In contrast, little kids have a decade's worth of insulation.

A bad economy will dampen your childhood, but you can ride the upswing as a young adult. Meanwhile, the 19-year-old who never got a "real" job is now 40+ with a nuclear resume and triple digit debt.
 
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