Mike Pence, religious freedom, and losing a sh*t ton of money.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/religious-freedom-bill-becomes-law-indiana

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/mike-pence-religious-freedom-bill-gay-rights/

With the fear of losing oodles of revenue from companies and corporations (NCAA and Gen Con making headlines over it, amoung others) looking over his head, Gov. Pence (R-In) signed a Bill protecting religious freedom, with critics fearing it will lead to easy ways to discriminate against the LGBT community.
I can't explain it much better so let the word people I linked above word for you better.

Some things:
-NCAA is hosting the Final Four in Indy this year. This may be their last.
-Gen Con makes roughly 50mil in revenue over four days, they are contracted in Indy until 2020, but may decide to break their contract.
-Arizona tried to pass a similar law last year and failed.
-Also this happened, http://huffpost.com/us/entry/6951778
 
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We've already seen businesses shut down and people losing their jobs in this country because homos can't take their business somewhere else. We used to have the right to do what we wanted with private property (our business.) It's good that some people will still fight for it.

Wow, "we have the right to refuse service to anyone" stops at the homosexual agenda. $75,000 each. Really? (Note the bakery closed afterwards.)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oregon-bakery-pay-gay-couple-refused-cake-article-1.2103577

This is the one that triggered the Arizona bill. Supreme Court precedent has indicated the bill of rights (this includes the first amendment, people) extend to laws passed by states. It's disappointing they refused to hear this case. On the other hand, this problem is easily solved by legislation like what Mike Pence has signed in Indiana.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/supreme-court-gay-wedding-photography_n_5104699.html

It's sad that some people are so intent at trying to convince others their choices should be accepted as normal on everyone else that they have to hurt others to do it. The same powers of government that can force you out of business for refusing to serve someone based on your beliefs are the same powers of government that can make it illegal for you to express homosexuality in public. (States have the right (court precedent, again) to regulate private behavior, except apparently this stops in the bedroom as well it should.) We should all support everyone's right to make choices on how to run their own lives, their own relationships, and their own businesses. Nothing prevents people from seeking out another photographer or baker more supporting of their cause.

On the needle thing, I saw that in the news today. Drugs are becoming a real problem in all of rural America (I should know) and it sucks. I'm not sure how to feel about that one. I tend to not support taxpayer money to help people hurt themselves less, however at the same time this is a huge public health concern and all stops should be pulled out to nip it in the bud. Has there been a lot of success with needle exchange programs? I would think that people would be afraid to come forward for fear of law enforcement.
 
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klystron said:
We've already seen businesses shut down and people losing their jobs in this country because homos can't take their business somewhere else. We used to have the right to do what we wanted with private property (our business.) It's good that some people will still fight for it.

Wow, "we have the right to refuse service to anyone" stops at the homosexual agenda. $75,000 each. Really? (Note the bakery closed afterwards.)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oregon-bakery-pay-gay-couple-refused-cake-article-1.2103577

This is the one that triggered the Arizona bill. Supreme Court precedent has indicated the bill of rights (this includes the first amendment, people) extend to laws passed by states. It's disappointing they refused to hear this case. On the other hand, this problem is easily solved by legislation like what Mike Pence has signed in Indiana.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/supreme-court-gay-wedding-photography_n_5104699.html

It's sad that some people are so intent at trying to convince others their choices should be accepted as normal on everyone else that they have to hurt others to do it. The same powers of government that can force you out of business for refusing to serve someone based on your beliefs are the same powers of government that can make it illegal for you to express homosexuality in public. (States have the right (court precedent, again) to regulate private behavior, except apparently this stops in the bedroom as well it should.) We should all support everyone's right to make choices on how to run their own lives, their own relationships, and their own businesses. Nothing prevents people from seeking out another photographer or baker more supporting of their cause.

On the needle thing, I saw that in the news today. Drugs are becoming a real problem in all of rural America (I should know) and it sucks. I'm not sure how to feel about that one. I tend to not support taxpayer money to help people hurt themselves less, however at the same time this is a huge public health concern and all stops should be pulled out to nip it in the bud. Has there been a lot of success with needle exchange programs? I would think that people would be afraid to come forward for fear of law enforcement.
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I guess you're in favor of whites only drinking fountains then? There is freedom of speech, yes, but it doesn't give people the right to be bigoted assholes. Those places went out of business because people refused to give their money to bigots. That's a right, too

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klystron said:
Has there been a lot of success with needle exchange programs? I would think that people would be afraid to come forward for fear of law enforcement.
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IIRC, needle exchange programs do slow the increase in new HIV cases, with no change in drug use, people who are doing IV drugs aren't going to start because needles are clean, as for fear of law enforcement I'm not really sure.

hurrhurrhurr said:
Those places went out of business because people refused to give their money to bigots. That's a right, too
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I'm sure many businesses who plan on refusing service are aware of the consequence of losing sales. Many businesses in Indy are already advertising "Service for everyone." I'm curious if they will actually get an increase on sales.
 
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hurrhurrhurr said:
I guess you're in favor of whites only drinking fountains then? There is freedom of speech, yes, but it doesn't give people the right to be bigoted assholes. Those places went out of business because people refused to give their money to bigots. That's a right, too
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I'm in favor of whites-only drinking fountains on private property if that's what the owner wants. It's their property. Do I want it? Of course not. That's stupid. Why would I want to pay for 2 fountains anyway? I'm not made of money. I'm certainly not in favor of it on public property. Equal protection under the law (not on private property, ahem), and all that. Private property rights are one of the fundamental principles of liberty. Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choices does not make them a bigot. I can find no case of one of these Christian businesses going Westboro on customers. They simply declined to support something they don't believe in. (Religious freedom is another fundamental principle of liberty.)

I can't find evidence these businesses went under because people refused to pay. In fact, in the case of the cake maker, their business increased heavily with people showing support. They closed their doors because the government was going to de facto shut them down through fines and judgements for asserting their beliefs.

You know what's a bigoted asshole in my opinion? Not respecting other people's opinions. Like, you know, if a guy doesn't want to make a cake for your gay wedding. Plenty of other places would. You and @Pikonic are absolutely correct that there may be a backlash for refusing service, and that is something the business has to consider as well. Our wallets are, after all, one of the greatest ballots there is. IMHO calling the business owner a "bigoted asshole" is just as bad as calling a gay person a stool pusher or something along those lines.

Pikonic said:
IIRC, needle exchange programs do slow the increase in new HIV cases, with no change in drug use, people who are doing IV drugs aren't going to start because needles are clean, as for fear of law enforcement I'm not really sure.
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I assume you meant to say "people who aren't doing IV drugs aren't going to start..." and I agree. You make a good point. I just wonder if it would really stave off the public health concern. I really hope they get it fixed. HIV is a terrible thing and it sucks. I live in a rural part of my state and the drug problem is ridiculous. I used to hate drug addicts, but now I just pray for them. It breaks my heart to see so many people waste their lives and talents on that stuff. (Note: not talking about an occasional ganja hit, my pot-head friends.)
 
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klystron said:
I'm in favor of whites-only drinking fountains on private property if that's what the owner wants. It's their property. Do I want it? Of course not. That's stupid. Why would I want to pay for 2 fountains anyway? I'm not made of money. I'm certainly not in favor of it on public property. Equal protection under the law (not on private property, ahem), and all that. Private property rights are one of the fundamental principles of liberty. Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choices does not make them a bigot. I can find no case of one of these Christian businesses going Westboro on customers. They simply declined to support something they don't believe in. (Religious freedom is another fundamental principle of liberty.)

I can't find evidence these businesses went under because people refused to pay. In fact, in the case of the cake maker, their business increased heavily with people showing support. They closed their doors because the government was going to de facto shut them down through fines and judgements for asserting their beliefs.

You know what's a bigoted asshole in my opinion? Not respecting other people's opinions. Like, you know, if a guy doesn't want to make a cake for your gay wedding. Plenty of other places would. You and @Pikonic are absolutely correct that there may be a backlash for refusing service, and that is something the business has to consider as well. Our wallets are, after all, one of the greatest ballots there is. IMHO calling the business owner a "bigoted asshole" is just as bad as calling a gay person a stool pusher or something along those lines.



I assume you meant to say "people who aren't doing IV drugs aren't going to start..." and I agree. You make a good point. I just wonder if it would really stave off the public health concern. I really hope they get it fixed. HIV is a terrible thing and it sucks. I live in a rural part of my state and the drug problem is ridiculous. I used to hate drug addicts, but now I just pray for them. It breaks my heart to see so many people waste their lives and talents on that stuff. (Note: not talking about an occasional ganja hit, my pot-head friends.)
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Damn dude. I seriously can't help but think your life would be a lot less stressful if you stopped caring so much about men sticking their things up each others butts.

Why is that dumb @klystron ? I'm serious...
 
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KingofManga420 said:
Damn dude. I seriously can't help but think your life would be a lot less stressful if you stopped caring so much about men sticking their things up each others butts.
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Really? Disagreeing with a lifestyle choice is caring? I dont care at all. I dont give it any thought at all. Especially with regard to agreeing with it.

At least I don't care so much what others do I have to sue them for it.

KingofManga420 said:
Why is that dumb @klystron ? I'm serious...
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Sorry I had to run and couldn't reply. It's dumb because you can say the exact same thing to the folks who sued the business owner. They'd be better off enjoying their lives and not trying to force everyone to accept them.
 
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So I happened to wake up one day and be a lesbian? It couldn't be that I was this way since I was 6 and was noticeable that my counselor at the time asked my mom what she would do if I grew up to be gay, at least my mom said she would always love me.
 
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klystron said:
Really? Disagreeing with a lifestyle choice is caring? I dont care at all. I dont give it any thought at all. Especially with regard to agreeing with it.
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For someone who doesn't care you sure seem to find any excuse you can to talk about how much you don't like da tranny homo fags. And as has already been said, it's not a lifestyle choice, and if there's a good reason for disagreeing with it I haven't heard it.

klystron said:
At least I don't care so much what others do I have to sue them for it.
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Plenty of racial and religious minorities have sued stores for discrimination and won. I don't see how this is much different.

klystron said:
It's dumb because you can say the exact same thing to the folks who sued the business owner. They'd be better off enjoying their lives and not trying to force everyone to accept them.
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As SJWish as this might sound, that's easy for someone privileged like you to say. If you were banned from a bunch of stores because you liked because of your religion you might not enjoy your life so much. Discrimination isn't as simple as "get over it". Hell, being discriminated against is what causes angry mobs. Ever hear of the Stonewall riots?
 
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I look forward to when they extend this so I can get pork on my bagel. I bet lox-ified pork would be good.
 
klystron said:
I'm in favor of whites-only drinking fountains on private property if that's what the owner wants. It's their property. Do I want it? Of course not. That's stupid. Why would I want to pay for 2 fountains anyway? I'm not made of money. I'm certainly not in favor of it on public property. Equal protection under the law (not on private property, ahem), and all that. Private property rights are one of the fundamental principles of liberty. Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choices does not make them a bigot. I can find no case of one of these Christian businesses going Westboro on customers. They simply declined to support something they don't believe in. (Religious freedom is another fundamental principle of liberty.)

I can't find evidence these businesses went under because people refused to pay. In fact, in the case of the cake maker, their business increased heavily with people showing support. They closed their doors because the government was going to de facto shut them down through fines and judgements for asserting their beliefs.

You know what's a bigoted asshole in my opinion? Not respecting other people's opinions. Like, you know, if a guy doesn't want to make a cake for your gay wedding. Plenty of other places would. You and @Pikonic are absolutely correct that there may be a backlash for refusing service, and that is something the business has to consider as well. Our wallets are, after all, one of the greatest ballots there is. IMHO calling the business owner a "bigoted asshole" is just as bad as calling a gay person a stool pusher or something along those lines.



I assume you meant to say "people who aren't doing IV drugs aren't going to start..." and I agree. You make a good point. I just wonder if it would really stave off the public health concern. I really hope they get it fixed. HIV is a terrible thing and it sucks. I live in a rural part of my state and the drug problem is ridiculous. I used to hate drug addicts, but now I just pray for them. It breaks my heart to see so many people waste their lives and talents on that stuff. (Note: not talking about an occasional ganja hit, my pot-head friends.)
Click to expand...
wbYZBDQ.png
 
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