Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Creep3r]

Agreed, really robs Order 66 of its punch if it takes away the clones complicity. The idea that the soldiers the Jedi have been serving with are capable of coldly, impassionately gunning them down with an order was chilling. But I guess we can't see Rex in a less than savoury light, so now it's "lol, they had no control over it".

I kind of like the idea that "Order 66" was a contingency plan: "Your Jedi has fallen to the Dark Side and will betray the Republic and all your brothers. They must be killed before they have a chance to read this knowledge in your mind."

And then the clones are horrified to find out it was issued to the entire army.

I find it amusing that the eternally bloated Hidalgo initially claimed that the contingency orders as you described were no longer the case in nu-canon back in 2016, only for Disney to ignore him and declare it canon again in their shit anyway despite nu-fans treating everything he said as gospel. I honestly would've liked to have seen an alternate story where Order 65 is declared by the Senate which is basically "proof has surfaced that the Supreme Chancellor has betrayed the Republic and must be detained/executed". It would certainly lead to a rather messy scenario.

When you take into account the ending of the Umbara story arc, the whole clone brain clip looks to be another plot hole that the Filoni Wars made.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Jedi Council informing the Senate to initiate Order 65 while Palpatine also initiates Order 66 could have turn the Clone War into the Clone Wars Obi-Wan was referring to Luke during ANH.

 

[BipolarPon]

There's some good news for everyone who isn't a fan of Taika Waititi

 

[HandsomeDan]

Jedi Council informing the Senate to initiate Order 65 while Palpatine also initiates Order 66 could have turn the Clone War into the Clone Wars Obi-Wan was referring to Luke during ANH.

Excellent point, before we knew about the "prequels", growing up I always imagined in my head the Clone Wars were fought between armies of "clones" (obvious huh?). When I was really young I didnt know what a "clone" was and thought it was the name of some alien or planet.

 

[Flexo]

Excellent point, before we knew about the "prequels", growing up I always imagined in my head the Clone Wars were fought between armies of "clones" (obvious huh?). When I was really young I didnt know what a "clone" was and thought it was the name of some alien or planet.

Neither did Lucas. In early drafts of ESB, supposedly Lando was going to be a "clone" and that was why Leia didn't trust him.

To me, it seems kind of obvious: to actually run a galactic wide military would require HUGE investments of manpower. If the Republic wanted to maintain a volunteer military, then probably the only way they would be able to keep up their numbers is to use cloning on the volunteers.

From there you have all sorts of potential for stories and a war.

 

[JohnDoe]

I always thought the Clone Wars would have been a less open conflict, and more about shadowy factions trying to clone and replace people. Like important politicians, or cloning their staff to try sneaking in spies or assassins. This was mostly because I thought that the Jedi would be really good at spotting doubles and assigned to kings and presidents.

(Since Leia is a Princess I thought her dad was a space king. In my defense, I was a child.)

 

[Adamska]

The Clone Wars being the aftermath of the Confederation Rebellion would've been a good idea if Disney went that route when they chucked out the EU. Would've been a great idea if Lucas woke up on that side of the bed too.

Also a clone plot by Palpatine to get into power? Also a cool idea from the pre-Prequel times.

 

[Rakdos92]

Jedi Council informing the Senate to initiate Order 65 while Palpatine also initiates Order 66 could have turn the Clone War into the Clone Wars Obi-Wan was referring to Luke during ANH.

Neither did Lucas. In early drafts of ESB, supposedly Lando was going to be a "clone" and that was why Leia didn't trust him.

To me, it seems kind of obvious: to actually run a galactic wide military would require HUGE investments of manpower. If the Republic wanted to maintain a volunteer military, then probably the only way they would be able to keep up their numbers is to use cloning on the volunteers.

From there you have all sorts of potential for stories and a war.

I do like the idea of there being a period between episode 3 and 4 where things went pearshaped because order 65 and 66 got activated at the same time.

 

[BipolarPon]

https://kimcartoon.to/Cartoon/Star-Wars-The-Clone-Wars-Season-7/Episode-8?id=96855
I slogged through the latest episode of Filoni Wars, lazily they did the enemy of my enemy is my friend trope, Bo-Katan was planning to kill Satine and she was loyal to Pre Vizla willing to burn down villages, and it took Ahsoka five minutes to go join her because Maul bad. Also that was the last two minuets of the episode because we need definitely needed to see more hijinks with the Martez sisters.

Also the Crimson Dawn is mentioned instead of the Shadow Collective, last of George Lucas's Star Wars my ass. And the pykes left Maul in Son of Dathmoir, but they are still working with him here. Matt Porgcuk Martin was right canon doesn't matter anymore. I know timeline issues are nothing new to Filoni Wars they aired one arc Domino squad two seasons apart, despite being heavily recommend to watch them back to back.

I hate how this is supposed to be the Canon Clone Wars, before and after Disney.

 

[SamTheEagle]

Neither did Lucas. In early drafts of ESB, supposedly Lando was going to be a "clone" and that was why Leia didn't trust him.

Leia was scripted to look at Lando and complain to Han, "Ugh, I can't believe they actually cloned his people!" but Kershner said, "Holy shit, George," and removed it.

But seriously, I didn't know about the clone Lando idea. That's interesting.

 

[BipolarPon]

Leia was scripted to look at Lando and complain to Han, "Ugh, I can't believe they actually cloned his people!" but Kershner said, "Holy shit, George," and removed it.

But seriously, I didn't know about the clone Lando idea. That's interesting.

It's interesting but I'm glad they didn't go there, Lando is truly one of a kind.

 

[Chilson]

It's interesting but I'm glad they didn't go there, Lando is truly one of a kind.

I mean, being the only black guy left in the galaxy really does make him one of a kind.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

To me, it seems kind of obvious: to actually run a galactic wide military would require HUGE investments of manpower. If the Republic wanted to maintain a volunteer military, then probably the only way they would be able to keep up their numbers is to use cloning on the volunteers.

I don't know about that. Coruscant by itself could have as many volunteers as your average Republic planet has people. The Republic is pretty big so they should be able to get trillions or quadrillions of volunteers needed to fight the septillions of battle droids.

But I always assumed the reason the clones were necessary was because the Republic was full of decadent and otherwise lazy people who wouldn't want to join the military and trying to conscript people would cause mass riots and defection to the CIS. The Republic's military was also pretty shit before the Clone Wars, like remember the guys at the start of The Phantom Menace? Yeah, that's the Republic's military, it's an underfunded police force with shitty starships and probably no greater training than being able to say OY MATE YA GOT A LOICENSE FOR DAT.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

still think the chip in the clones brain was a total cop-out, I don't hate Filoni but he needs to be called out more for his misses, I wish Ot purist were as hard on Dave Filoni as Geroge Lucas, then we wouldn't be stuck with his Clone Wars being the canon one, and a slobby remake of the Ot.

Wait what? there was a chip in the Clones brains? DID NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON QUESTION WHY?

 

[Adamska]

Wait what? there was a chip in the Clones brains? DID NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON QUESTION WHY?

No, because it would be smart to question something like that and we can't have that. Besides, Filoni thought it would save any clone characters of his from being able to do evil casually.

 

[Chilson]

Wait what? there was a chip in the Clones brains? DID NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON QUESTION WHY?

I don't hate the idea of clone chips (and yes it was questioned in the show, they had a whole arc about it). It makes sense to put a chip in the brain of a soldier to alleviate stress, keep them calm and compliant to their leaders. Especially in a sci-fi fantasy universe where people are grafting robot parts on their bodies all over the place and clones aren't really seen as people.

The issue is the retcon that THIS is why order 66 happened, which is retarded because there is plenty of evidence in other non-animated clone wars media/entertainment that the clones knew all along and were conditioned to the point of compliance for at least 66 orders (and that the clones straight up knew of the inevitable betrayal from the beginning). It also has a greater impact because the clones the Jedi came to trust and even form friendships with suddenly turn and absolutely demolish them. But Filoni had to paint the clones as diddonuffins because he is sentimental and incapable of even implying his characters have the capacity for evil.

 

[Miller]

Wait what? there was a chip in the Clones brains? DID NOT ONE FUCKING PERSON QUESTION WHY?

The Jedi knew, to them (and the kaminoans) it was necessary. Check the conspiracy storyline from Season 6, it was pretty good.

 

[Creep3r]

Feels nice to be able to know who's who again.

I don't know about that. Coruscant by itself could have as many volunteers as your average Republic planet has people. The Republic is pretty big so they should be able to get trillions or quadrillions of volunteers needed to fight the septillions of battle droids.

But I always assumed the reason the clones were necessary was because the Republic was full of decadent and otherwise lazy people who wouldn't want to join the military and trying to conscript people would cause mass riots and defection to the CIS. The Republic's military was also pretty shit before the Clone Wars, like remember the guys at the start of The Phantom Menace? Yeah, that's the Republic's military, it's an underfunded police force with shitty starships and probably no greater training than being able to say OY MATE YA GOT A LOICENSE FOR DAT.

That seems to be the case in both old and nu canons. The Grand Clone Army seem to be the "elite" despite that they have such pathetically low numbers while regular civilians instead sign up for the Planetary Armies and Security Forces which are responsible for protecting different sectors within Republic Space, with the total number of soldiers numbering in the trillions.

But as you pointed out, the people of the Republic aren't exactly competent or used to war of such a scale, as seen with the Naboo Army, the Auril Armies, the Savareen Armies and those shitty "rebels" from Onderon. Probably because they were so lazy and complacent thanks to the modern lifestyles and peaceful times before the Clone Wars.

So the Clones serve as a good backup, elites, and excellent powerhouse units alongside jedi generals. Thus giving the Sector Armies a good edge in battle. The clones' tactical know how and brute strength and skill combined with the numbers of the Sector Armies is more than enough to fight back against the droids.

Even the Separatists had organic armies in their ranks, but unlike with the Republic, the droids far outnumbered them.

Excellent point, before we knew about the "prequels", growing up I always imagined in my head the Clone Wars were fought between armies of "clones" (obvious huh?). When I was really young I didnt know what a "clone" was and thought it was the name of some alien or planet.

From what I understand, back when Zahn first started writing the Thrawn trilogy, he went around asking and looking up any source he could to make sure he got the setting right. This included asking the writers of the SW RPG, looking into comics and even asking George himself about the timeline of events and the Clone Wars. From what was George's canon at the time (which was constantly prone to internal changes) the Clone Wars and the rule of the Empire lasted for far longer than what the prequels implied and it was apparently a war between clones headed by the "Clone Masters" which I guess George later developed into the Kaminoans who went from being evil masterminds to a 3rd party business manufacturing clones for other masterminds.

Despite this change, some Dark Horse comics tried to bring back that element by making it so the Separatists made their own elite clone army, but after a lengthy war their production was sabotaged and halted before they could even leave the planet they were being created on.

Like with Republic clones, these guys were made from a legendary assassin but who was not human.

The OG Battlefront II also brought back "Clone Masters" as rogue Kaminoans trying to create their own army to fight back the Empire, but they too were defeated in the end. This resulted in Palpatine subjugating the Kaminoans and shutting down all their factories while outlawing cloning (unless directly overseen by himself) and focusing on traditional recruiting. And then there's Atha Prime who I've spoken about before in regards to sequel shit if anyone remembers. The end result is that there were CIS and others who tried to use clones to fight the Republic/Empire, but they ended up losing. I still would've preferred the original interpretation from the pre-prequel stuff of clones being the bad guy army since it would've made more sense and that its basically slavery anyway.

 

[Uranus Pink]

I don't know about that. Coruscant by itself could have as many volunteers as your average Republic planet has people. The Republic is pretty big so they should be able to get trillions or quadrillions of volunteers needed to fight the septillions of battle droids.

Going by the EU pre and post Filoni Wars the Army of the Republic did have "volunteers" joining it but the Republic leadership greatly preferred subservient clones instead.

But I always assumed the reason the clones were necessary was because the Republic was full of decadent and otherwise lazy people who wouldn't want to join the military and trying to conscript people would cause mass riots and defection to the CIS. The Republic's military was also pretty shit before the Clone Wars, like remember the guys at the start of The Phantom Menace? Yeah, that's the Republic's military, it's an underfunded police force with shitty starships and probably no greater training than being able to say OY MATE YA GOT A LOICENSE FOR DAT.

Or model the Old Republic and the military after the U.S.A. with the govt (up until post Korean War) being a massive bunch of uber paranoid grifting miserly cunts who are afraid the military might get "ideas" and a dollar to them is one less dollar sent home as pork.


edit: ninjad

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

Feels nice to be able to know who's who again.

That seems to be the case in both old and nu canons. The Grand Clone Army seem to be the "elite" despite that they have such pathetically low numbers while regular civilians instead sign up for the Sector Armies which are responsible for protecting different sectors within Republic Space, with the total number of soldiers numbering in the billions.
View attachment 1225096
But as you pointed out, the people of the Republic aren't exactly competent or used to war of such a scale, as seen with the Naboo Army, the Auril Armies, the Savareen Armies and those shitty "rebels" from Onderon. Probably because they were so lazy and complacent thanks to the modern lifestyles and peaceful times before the Clone Wars.
View attachment 1225122View attachment 1225095View attachment 1225111
So the Clones serve as a good backup, elites, and excellent powerhouse units alongside jedi generals.

Even the Separatists had organic armies in their ranks, but unlike with the Republic, the droids far outnumbered them.
View attachment 1225113View attachment 1225115View attachment 1225118
From what I understand, back when Zahn first started writing the Thrawn trilogy, he went around asking and looking up any source he could to make sure he got the setting right. This included asking the writers of the SW RPG, looking into comics and even asking George himself about the timeline of events and the Clone Wars. From what was George's canon at the time (which was constantly prone to internal changes) the Clone Wars and the rule of the Empire lasted for far longer than what the prequels implied and it was apparently a war between clones headed by the "Clone Masters" which I guess George later developed into the Kaminoans who went from being evil masterminds to a 3rd party business manufacturing clones for other masterminds.

Despite this change, some Dark Horse comics tried to bring back that element by making it so the Separatists made their own elite clone army, but after a lengthy war their production was sabotaged and halted before they could even leave the planet they were being created on.
View attachment 1225074
Like with Republic clones, these guys were made from a legendary assassin but who was not human.

The OG Battlefront II also brought back "Clone Masters" as rogue Kaminoans trying to create their own army to fight back the Empire, but they too were defeated in the end. This resulted in Palpatine subjugating the Kaminoans and shutting down all their factories while outlawing cloning (unless directly overseen by himself) and focusing on traditional recruiting. And then there's Atha Prime who I've spoken about before in regards to sequel shit if anyone remembers. The end result is that there were CIS and others who tried to use clones to fight the Republic/Empire, but they ended up losing. I still would've preferred the original interpretation from the pre-prequel stuff of clones being the bad guy army since it would've made more sense and that its basically slavery anyway.

wasn’t the whole clone armies being so low a result of RA Salvatore misinerpreting a quote from episode 2 I. It’s novelization? In particular the line “200,000 units in production with another three million on the way.” The term unit was most likely intended to be interpreted in the military context (IE squads, platoons, companies etc). However Salvatore thought that 1 unit = 1 clone. Kind of reminiscent of the number of Spartan 2/3 soldiers in the Halo franchise.

also worth noting that the Republic did have an armed force in Between the New Sith Wars and the Clone Wars called the Judicials but they were more of a law enforcement organization than a military one.