Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Allanon]

Unfortunately all of these rights you have mentioned are not unconditional and they depend on interpretation.

Freedom of religion, for example, means freedom to believe as you wish. It means that there is no state religion. But that does not give you an inalienable right to gather at will. A violation of freedom of religion would be not allowing Baptists to assemble, but allowing Catholics.

You are allowed to freely travel. Catch is, they aren't making it easy for you.

You also have limited rights as far as making decisions about health matters. You don't technically have the right to off yourself. But how the hell do you enforce that?

Look, over my own lifetime I have stood there and watched as our rights and civil liberties, freedoms and priveliges erode before my very eyes. Although I don't have an Oracle, I am skeptical that this temporary shutdown will be a continuance of this general shitting-on-our-rights decay, simply due to how it is being implemented (by restricting areas and domains, not so much people).

That...that is not correct at all.

1: Freedom to exercise, not to believe, means that you absolutely DO have the right to gather at will and follow anything your belief system requires or includes, assuming it's not something criminal for other reasons, such as murder. 'Evenly applying it to all religion' doesn't matter, because that would just mean that the state's religion is atheism, and anyone non-atheist is persecuted. That they're persecuted equally doesn't change that.

2: 'Not making it easy to freely travel' is infringing on that right, even if it's not 'violating' it completely. You're intentionally hampering the ability to exercise the right to free travel.

3: Rights involving suicide are not adequately explored for obvious reasons. You can, however, absolutely refuse life saving procedures, necessarily ending your own life by your choice. No one can force you to take a medical procedure you refuse as long as you're of sound mind.

It doesn't matter if there's precedence, or if other rights have been infringed upon - such as the second amendment - the rights are being infringed upon now, by this, at a much stronger level than before, and it's unacceptable,

 

[Rudy Russo]

Implying blacks would adhere to sheltering in place or social distancing in the first place.

No Im not, Im saying any other year stuff like that helps keep borderline people outta trouble. Now you'll have your normal knuckleheads plus add the borderline clowns with nothing better to do. It'll get worse the deeper into summer it goes.

 

[Non-Expert!]

That...that is not correct at all.

1: Freedom to exercise, not to believe, means that you absolutely DO have the right to gather at will and follow anything your belief system requires or includes, assuming it's not something criminal for other reasons, such as murder. 'Evenly applying it to all religion' doesn't matter, because that would just mean that the state's religion is atheism, and anyone non-atheist is persecuted. That they're persecuted equally doesn't change that.

2: 'Not making it easy to freely travel' is infringing on that right, even if it's not 'violating' it completely. You're intentionally hampering the ability to exercise the right to free travel.

3: Rights involving suicide are not adequately explored for obvious reasons. You can, however, absolutely refuse life saving procedures, necessarily ending your own life by your choice. No one can force you to take a medical procedure you refuse as long as you're of sound mind.

It doesn't matter if there's precedence, or if other rights have been infringed upon - such as the second amendment - the rights are being infringed upon now, by this, at a much stronger level than before, and it's unacceptable,

I guess we just see things differently then. But about religious assemblies, they aren't being cut off because the govt. is atheistic and wants to quash religion. It is to prevent people from catching the virus from other worshippers and spreading it to other contacts in the community.

Oddly enough, our freedom of religion is violated in some situations: imagine we were Santeros and we wanted to practice animal sacrifice .... no can do. Or trip out on any number of drugs. Sorry Charlie.

 

[Without A Gout]

I'm torn on the whole liberty/security thing in this regard.

One side has me saying that people are fucking idiots who haven't experienced true hardship in their lives and need to feel the crack of a whip to do what they're told.

Another has me worried that these restrictions will never go away. We'll be forced to accept this new "normal" for our safety (in reality, to protect the government from a potential rebellion and put down what they see as dissidence).

I don't know which side to take.

 

[Sped Xing]

Take the side of liberty. Suffering and death are universal and inevitable, but freedom is worth striving for.

 

[Slap47]

That...that is not correct at all.

1: Freedom to exercise, not to believe, means that you absolutely DO have the right to gather at will and follow anything your belief system requires or includes, assuming it's not something criminal for other reasons, such as murder. 'Evenly applying it to all religion' doesn't matter, because that would just mean that the state's religion is atheism, and anyone non-atheist is persecuted. That they're persecuted equally doesn't change that.

We also have the precedent of JW and blood transfusions. You can let yourself die but your child must be treated.
The issue of assemblies affects other people directly and under the JW logic we should probably be punishing these people.

 

[ConfederateIrishman]

Unfortunately all of these rights you have mentioned are not unconditional and they depend on interpretation.

The Federalist Party, Judicial Review, the Civil War, and the Wilson Presidency have been a disaster for the human race.

 

[I can't imagine]

I'm torn on the whole liberty/security thing in this regard.

One side has me saying that people are fucking idiots who haven't experienced true hardship in their lives and need to feel the crack of a whip to do what they're told.

Another has me worried that these restrictions will never go away. We'll be forced to accept this new "normal" for our safety (in reality, to protect the government from a potential rebellion and put down what they see as dissidence).

I don't know which side to take.

I feel like, whether you personally believe these restrictions are necessary or not, it's really, really important that we continue to question if we still need them. If you let the government wait to tell you when you've had enough, it'll always be longer than necessary and twice as painful.

 

[Without A Gout]

Take the side of liberty. Suffering and death are universal and inevitable, but freedom is worth striving for.

Always, but I'm under the impression that this disease is a lot worse than they're letting on.

The government's main priorities at this time are two-fold:

- Maintain order at any cost
- Make sure the economy doesn't fall apart

If they tell us everything about the coronavirus that they know (and it's probably worse than they're letting on), everyone panics and shits themselves. Society falls apart, if you will.

This is an unprecedented situation, and I'm worried these restrictions will never be lifted, but there has to be a legit reason for it. They wouldn't just fuck with the economy and deal with potentially thousands of secondary deaths for a flu.

 

[bippu_as_fuck_ls400]

Wet markets in China's Wuhan struggle to survive coronavirus blow
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wuhan-market-idUSKCN21U03S (https://archive.vn/BFs9z)

Fish and vegetable merchants are reopening stalls at wet markets in China’s central city of Wuhan as it lifts a months-long lockdown against the coronavirus pandemic, but their future looks uncertain with few customers as the virus stigma persists.

 

[Rudy Russo]

Pentagon will not increase coronavirus testing despite evidence of personnel with no symptoms

Pentagon will not increase coronavirus testing despite evidence of pe…

archived 12 Apr 2020 04:36:30 UTC

archive.vn

The reason is twofold: First, current testing methods have shown some false negatives, marring the chances of getting a full picture of the infection rate in the military, and second, it’s the Pentagon’s position that testing someone who is asymptomatic could take resources away from someone in greater need of a test.

Dont know about taking away resources but I do know your not going to get a "full picture of the infection" by not increasing testing, false tests or not.

 

[MediocreMilt]

The government's main priorities at this time are two-fold:

- Maintain order at any cost
- Make sure the economy doesn't fall apart

That's questionable. The government is bureaucrats operating at the behest of politicians.

The politicians' main priorities at this time are two-fold:

-Get re-elected
-Appear on television

 

[Non-Expert!]

I'm torn on the whole liberty/security thing in this regard.

One side has me saying that people are fucking idiots who haven't experienced true hardship in their lives and need to feel the crack of a whip to do what they're told.

Another has me worried that these restrictions will never go away. We'll be forced to accept this new "normal" for our safety (in reality, to protect the government from a potential rebellion and put down what they see as dissidence).

I don't know which side to take.

You don't need to take any "side."

Think of economics. Unless there is some freaky agenda going on, the US Government wants the United States to continue to be a superpower. And in order to be a superpower, first and foremost, means generating wealth. As in GDP.

Religion is not interfering with the economy. Neither are large birthday parties, bar hoppers, armies of Karens at Costco, kids in parks, old people on park benches reading the paper, or meals at Applebees. In fact, all of those things stimulate the economy.

So in following stay-at-home recommendations, you are not contributing to the MAO-isation of the USA. You are simply doing what you need to do, in order to avoid infection.

 

[mr.moon1488]

The Federalist Party, Judicial Review, the Civil War, and the Wilson Presidency have been a disaster for the human race.

Lol you could really attribute a lot of the economic fallout with this to Wilson since his 1913 tax reform act directly led to the US getting so intertwined with global markets.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Unfortunately all of these rights you have mentioned are not unconditional and they depend on interpretation.

Freedom of religion, for example, means freedom to believe as you wish. It means that there is no state religion. But that does not give you an inalienable right to gather at will. A violation of freedom of religion would be not allowing Baptists to assemble, but allowing Catholics.

You are allowed to freely travel. Catch is, they aren't making it easy for you.

You also have limited rights as far as making decisions about health matters. You don't technically have the right to off yourself. But how the hell do you enforce that?

Look, over my own lifetime I have stood there and watched as our rights and civil liberties, freedoms and priveliges erode before my very eyes. Although I don't have an Oracle, I am skeptical that this temporary shutdown will be a continuance of this general shitting-on-our-rights decay, simply due to how it is being implemented (by restricting areas and domains, not so much people).

Freedom of Religion, as enshrined in the First Amendment is Freedom to PRACTICE your religion. And that includes assembling to do so. This is long enshrined in law and numerous court decisions. While under extreme circumstances Freedom of Assembly may be curtailed for reasons of public health, these must be construed in the narrowest way possible, to cause the least limitations on the free practice of faith. Many of the Governors are not doing that. Take for example the Kentucky shitstain planning on ordering the State Police to spy on Easter Services and document the practitioners for future government punishment. No emergency decree in the US would EVER grant him such power. And every politician everywhere knows this. One of the first lessons they learn after their first election to City Council or Mayor is trying to block a Church Temple or Mosque from being built is next to legally impossible. They try and scream Zoning Rules, Public Benefits, etc. And they get slapped down in Federal Court every single time without fail.

 

[UntimelyDhelmise]

Wet markets in China's Wuhan struggle to survive coronavirus blow
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-wuhan-market-idUSKCN21U03S (https://archive.vn/BFs9z)

Oh no people don't want to buy fried-alive dogs anymore, what a tragedy.

 

[Allanon]

I guess we just see things differently then. But about religious assemblies, they aren't being cut off because the govt. is atheistic and wants to quash religion. It is to prevent people from catching the virus from other worshippers and spreading it to other contacts in the community.

Oddly enough, our freedom of religion is violated in some situations: imagine we were Santeros and we wanted to practice animal sacrifice .... no can do. Or trip out on any number of drugs. Sorry Charlie.

It doesn't matter what the intention is, whether it's good or bad. It matters what the actions taken and results are. They can say 'it's for your own good' all they want, but it's still saying 'you cannot exercise your religion freely because...' what follows 'because' doesn't matter, what precedes it does.

You're ignoring what I said about criminal behavior. The only thing you're prevented from are independently criminal acts. Attempting to make another act criminal that would implicitly interfere with the observation ior practice of religion would be subject to very strict scrutiny. And right now, none of the quarantine nonsense has actually criminalized any behavior.

We also have the precedent of JW and blood transfusions. You can let yourself die but your child must be treated.
The issue of assemblies affects other people directly and under the JW logic we should probably be punishing these people.

If I understand what you're referencing, there's a difference between denying life saving procedures to someone you have guardianship over - which is a gray area that depends on the situation - and potentially endangering other people. You potentially endanger people pretty often, it's not a reason to be prevented from doing it. Otherwise places like ski lodges would be outlawed, because it potentially endangers people, including minors, of all ages all the time it's open.

Always, but I'm under the impression that this disease is a lot worse than they're letting on.

The government's main priorities at this time are two-fold:

- Maintain order at any cost
- Make sure the economy doesn't fall apart

If they tell us everything about the coronavirus that they know (and it's probably worse than they're letting on), everyone panics and shits themselves. Society falls apart, if you will.

This is an unprecedented situation, and I'm worried these restrictions will never be lifted, but there has to be a legit reason for it. They wouldn't just fuck with the economy and deal with potentially thousands of secondary deaths for a flu.

It's very precedented. Spanish Flu was much worse than this, and Swine Flu killed far more than Coronavirus is projected to. The only unprecedented part of this is the government's reaction to it. It's far more extreme than anything else before.

 

[5ever a crab]

Doesn't Tencent have a huge stake in Reddit now or something? It could explain the (somehow) higher levels of autism coming from there.

Also something doesn't feel right about these numbers. IMO, I think they're being significantly underreported for both cases and deaths (lack of true testing, asymptomatic transmission, and a lack of testing the dead and/or not counting those that die in nursing homes). Although that's everywhere, so it's a worldwide issue. Some significantly more underreporting than others either due to willful ignorance, incompetence, or just being too poor to test.

I think its coming from the difficulty of testing constantly. Now I think China is doing it out of a more selfish reason, they've been crazy before then. I'll take back what I said about South Korea in the past because of some niche boy band meme and using "muh crazy governor lady who was in a cult" and unbacked testimonies from 4chins screencaps; generalizing them negatively overall- they are the top countries doing very well in dealing with the sudden crisis.

Anyway to get back on my post, I'm just going to hope that medicine will find a way to vaccine the corona-chan meme away.

 

[Actinidia]

Dropped off some groceries today for a disabled friend at the shithole he can afford on a fixed income. Getting a delivery slot is basically impossible, he normally has his groceries delivered since he can't drive.

Social distancing was non-existent- he said it's actually been noisier and busier than ever, often so late into the night that he's having issues getting enough sleep. The adults are active until the early hours, then the kids are up at dawn to run around like packs of yowling feral cats.

Meanwhile my social media feed is a wall of Myspace-level quiz results, advertised sales on yuppie consumer goods (20% off a $300 dutch oven, oh joy), and various forms of increasingly aggressive virtue signaling.

I feel fine again with the exception of a couple spells of dizziness/queasiness/jelly-legs . If it doesn't resolve before the shitstorm passes I'll see a doctor.

 

[sasazuka]

I am hoping that this "California Immunity" thing is true. They will find out soon enough. However I am skeptical because why weren't people dropping like flies early on, like they did in New York or Italy?

I have no idea but if I had to guess (beyond the null hypothesis that it wasn't Covid-19) it'd be that it was the mildest strain of Covid-19 that exists.

But, yes, I'm very skeptical about it too, like, if I had it, why wasn't my college a "hotspot".