Comicsgate Hangers-On and Drama Whores - A thread about some guy who's mad about Star Wars and the neckbeards obsessively stalking him

[TheSoutherStar]

I agree with all that.

Except crediting Ethan. Ethan platforms old pros to give HIS movement legitimacy and for no other reason. He needs other competent comics people around him or the perception of his club would quickly degrade to thoughts of a middle aged has been and his wannabe fan club.

Ethan courted Miller and then asked him to bring in Doug because they had the shine of legitimacy.

He resented them because in many ways they were better than him at comics. Mike's a better draftsman and writer. Tennaple's a better writer and his creativity has provided him a steady stream of video game, movie and TV deals for decades.

Malin's easier to keep around. His art is mediocre enough to be unthreatening and his writing is a joke. Also for all his bluster whenever Ethan calls him to heel Malin drops into simp mode immediately.

Mike, Doug, Nerkish and Tim all pushed back.

To a narcissist that probably looks like betrayal.

I expect WC is looking at how they can make Malin stand up for himself with Ethan. That's how they got rid of the others.

The rest of Ethan's current stable seem sufficiently docile and submissive that he's unlikely to find reason to boot their bitch asses. For now.

Mike is a terrible draftsman, from panelwork to the way he draws head and face anatomy it's quite frankly embarrassing (not to mention sameface syndrome). As a writer that lonestar page where the entire cast prays is cringe.

Ethan is always on the hunt for another purse-puppy. Right now he has Malin, Cecil and Anna as faithful lapdogs but there's no telling how long he can keep them docile. Feeding them sweet Dynamite IP might calm the yapping for now but it's only a matter of time before the dogs tied up in the yard get jealous and try to get back in the CG trap house.

I'd be surprised if those 3 are still friends with EVS 8 months from now.

 

[VIkkiVerse]

Frog, to his credit, goes out of his way to try and build up older comic book professionals who struggle to cultivate an audience of their own like Art Thibert or Adam Post (the best example of this was Smiller) when he could just as easily put on more entertaining people with large platforms (HeelVsBabyface, Yellowflash, That Star Wars Girl, Adam Friended) for the purpose of drawing maximum eyeballs to his channel.

From here, it looks more like Ethan promoting his friends who haven't had work in the mainstream for years. Dan Fraga hasn't worked in comics since 2009. He and Ethan have been friends for years. Art Thibert hasn't had a book since 2008. Adam Post hasn't ever been in the mainstream, but he hasn't had a comic since the 1990's when he was doing porn comics.

 

[Newman's Own]

Mike is a terrible draftsman, from panelwork to the way he draws head and face anatomy it's quite frankly embarrassing (not to mention sameface syndrome). As a writer that lonestar page where the entire cast prays is cringe.

Mike's grasp of anatomy, dynamic figure drawing, the female form, story telling and perspective are all superior to Ethan's by a standard deviation at least. I'll concede the "same face" point though.

Ethan isn't terrible at all these things but he isn't especially good or talented. He makes up for his short commings much like Leifeld did. He does lots of splash pages and over renders the fuck out of his figures and backgrounds. His story telling is unreadable without heavy exposition to fill the readers in.

I mean, he isn't as technically weak as Leifeld was but he's no John Buscema.

 

[TheSoutherStar]

Mike's grasp of anatomy, dynamic figure drawing, the female form, story telling and perspective are all superior to Ethan's by a standard deviation at least. I'll concede the "same face" point though.

Ethan isn't terrible at all these things but he isn't especially good or talented. He makes up for his short commings much like Leifeld did. He does lots of splash pages and over renders the fuck out of his figures and backgrounds. His story telling is unreadable without heavy exposition to fill the readers in.

I mean, he isn't as technically weak as Leifeld was but he's no John Buscema.

comparing them is fair but saying EVS resents mike for being a better artist/writer is grasping.

 

[Analog Devolved]

Mike's grasp of anatomy, dynamic figure drawing, the female form, story telling and perspective are all superior to Ethan's by a standard deviation at least. I'll concede the "same face" point though.

Ethan isn't terrible at all these things but he isn't especially good or talented. He makes up for his short commings much like Leifeld did. He does lots of splash pages and over renders the fuck out of his figures and backgrounds. His story telling is unreadable without heavy exposition to fill the readers in.

I mean, he isn't as technically weak as Leifeld was but he's no John Buscema.

Ethans illustrations for Jordan "benzo" Petersons book weren't that bad. He knows how to draw, better than most. His DC "Metal" green lantern one-shot was pretty incredible. He surrounds himself with hacks because it boosts his ego.

 

[Newman's Own]

comparing them is fair but saying EVS resents mike for being a better artist/writer is grasping.

I don't think so.

Ethan's a smart dude. He knows where his skill set is weak and Mike's is strong. (the technical aspects)

Mike could ape Ethan's style today and do it better than him but Ethan realizes that he'll never do dynamic action as well or get perspective as technical as Mike.

Ethan's a narcissist. Of course that bugs him.

And Tennaple. Doug's first anthropomorphic animal character was hailed as original and fun when everyone else including Ethan was doing another TMNT knock off. Doug's creation became a video game with multiple sequels, action figures, comic books, even Saturday morning cartoons and it launched a prolific and highly regarded career in animation, screen writing, comics and more for decades. CyberFrog was late to the party and derivative. He says there was almost a cartoon.

Ethan slogged through the factory work at the big two slowly rising through the ranks while Doug was selling most of his GN's to the likes of Peter Jackson or Sony, creating more games and getting his cartoon ideas on the small screen.

Ethan resents Mike's talents and skills but he loathes Doug for having the life "Caesar" always wanted.

 

[Newman's Own]

Ethans illustrations for Jordan "benzo" Petersons book weren't that bad. He knows how to draw, better than most. His DC "Metal" green lantern one-shot was pretty incredible. He surrounds himself with hacks because it boosts his ego.

Ethan does good work, no doubt, but it isn't technically proficient. He's obviously self taught which is impressive given his success but he's a good artist in the way McFarlane or Leifeld is.

Not the way Charest, Moebious or Jim lee are.

Ethan's flashy and it sells. No doubt and nothings wrong with that but he knows that Mike can draw a person reclining in a chair or jumping off a roof that other artists will want to copy to get better.

That bugs him.

Ethan's done more big books and sold more copies than Mike ever will but Mike's just better at actually drawing things.

 

[Mister Dongs]

I agree with all that.

Except crediting Ethan. Ethan platforms old pros to give HIS movement legitimacy and for no other reason. He needs other competent comics people around him or the perception of his club would quickly degrade to thoughts of a middle aged has been and his wannabe fan club.

We'll have to disagree, since I consider forgoing personal enrichment to actively uphold principles like ensuring the "mainstream alternative" has creators actually able to produce a professional-grade product as commendable. It could be so much worse, as much of the rest of CG shows. I've cautioned Frog that he should re-examine, for his sake and Comicsgate's sake, why it is that every 'pro' that doesn't require Frog's patronage like oxygen to breathe invariable finds CG unbearable and "turns on him". If this "mainstream alternative" can only bring on and retain pros that have perpetual dependence on Ethan van Sciver, it's only going to be a matter of time before his back gives out.

He resented them because in many ways they were better than him at comics. Mike's a better draftsman and writer.

Dear God no.
Mike's dynamic realistic style is able to draw figures and anatomy more structurally coherent and technically proficient than Ethan, sure.
This doesn't overcome the far greater problem that, given a blank paper where he's able to write or draw anything he can imagine, Miller is only able to produce something like The Meg or Lonestar that looks like it would cost a few thousand bucks to produce into a low-budget SyFy movie. The only values expressed in these works are bits of boomer conservatism Mike has absorbed after decades of talk radio blaring in the background while he hunched over an art desk. They're great comic adaptations of B-movies that don't exist.

Frog's works, even given flaws in the technical structure of his writing as pointed out by the likes of JDA, follow the Image-era ethos of being orgiastic celebrations of what can only be done in the comic book medium. Chromium covers, brilliant colors, cities covered in giant wasp nests, bizaare mashups of animals jammed with cybernetic implants rendered in luxuriated overdetail. Behind all this specacle are mediations of very simple, primal concepts like family, or how someone overcomes failure. Given Frog's... idiosyncratic personality, I find myself at least a little intrigued on his thoughts.

 

[Newman's Own]

We'll have to disagree, since I consider forgoing personal enrichment to actively uphold principles like ensuring the "mainstream alternative" has creators actually able to produce a professional-grade product as commendable. It could be so much worse, as much of the rest of CG shows. I've cautioned Frog that he should re-examine, for his sake and Comicsgate's sake, why it is that every 'pro' that doesn't require Frog's patronage like oxygen to breathe invariable finds CG unbearable and "turns on him". If this "mainstream alternative" can only bring on and retain pros that have perpetual dependence on Ethan van Sciver, it's only going to be a matter of time before his back gives out.


Dear God no.
Mike's dynamic realistic style is able to draw figures and anatomy more structurally coherent and technically proficient than Ethan, sure.
This doesn't overcome the far greater problem that, given a blank paper where he's able to write or draw anything he can imagine, Miller is only able to produce something like The Meg or Lonestar that looks like it would cost a few thousand bucks to produce into a low-budget SyFy movie. The only values expressed in these works are bits of boomer conservatism Mike has absorbed after decades of talk radio blaring in the background while he hunched over an art desk. They're great comic adaptations of B-movies that don't exist.

Frog's works, even given flaws in the technical structure of his writing as pointed out by the likes of JDA, follow the Image-era ethos of being orgiastic celebrations of what can only be done in the comic book medium. Chromium covers, brilliant colors, cities covered in giant wasp nests, bizaare mashups of animals jammed with cybernetic implants rendered in luxuriated overdetail. Behind all this specacle are mediations of very simple, primal concepts like family, or how someone overcomes failure. Given Frog's... idiosyncratic personality, I find myself at least a little intrigued on his thoughts.

I don't disagree with anything you said about Mike's work.

He's a better draftsman because he's technically proficient where Ethan isn't.

His writing is more pedestrian in subject matter but at least he understands that a story has a beginning a middle and an end. Anna's critique of Ethan's writing was spot on. He did 48 pages of back story in issue #1 and took us to the spot where Luke meets R2 and 3PO.

I'm not disputing Ethan's strengths. He's got strengths.

I'm simply pointing out he has some rather glaring technical deficits that he makes up for by focusing on his strengths.

Mike doesn't share those deficits but he's not perfect either. He's simply more technically proficient.

A better draftsman.

 

[Detrogen]

Ethan does good work, no doubt, but it isn't technically proficient. He's obviously self taught which is impressive given his success but he's a good artist in the way McFarlane or Leifeld is.

Not the way Charest, Moebious or Jim lee are.

Ethan's flashy and it sells. No doubt and nothings wrong with that but he knows that Mike can draw a person reclining in a chair or jumping off a roof that other artists will want to copy to get better.

That bugs him.

Ethan's done more big books and sold more copies than Mike ever will but Mike's just better at actually drawing things.

I don’t remember which of his thousands of dull streams it was, but Mike has said publicly that he abandoned the idea of “style” in favor of proper form and anatomy.

 

[Newman's Own]

I don’t remember which of his thousands of dull streams it was, but Mike has said publicly that he abandoned the idea of “style” in favor of proper form and anatomy.

That sounds about right.

 

[Mister Dongs]

From here, it looks more like Ethan promoting his friends who haven't had work in the mainstream for years. Dan Fraga hasn't worked in comics since 2009. He and Ethan have been friends for years. Art Thibert hasn't had a book since 2008. Adam Post hasn't ever been in the mainstream, but he hasn't had a comic since the 1990's when he was doing porn comics.

I have little doubt that Frog has friends he likes more and/or would be a greater asset for his channel than those guys. The fact he's pulling these people you say were already consigned to obscurity because he believes they are more likely to put out a professional quality product over other guests who bring their own customer base or are more entertaining only bolsters my assertion that EVS is actually holding to expressed principles in this case. Loathe as you might be to admit it. He could just as easily do something like have WorldClassBullshitters, Mandy Summers in hotpants and Andy Warski "writing" a comic drawn by Joe Ball every day if he was solely concerned with personal profit.

 

[Wise Man]

Mike could be the best comic book artist the world ever produced and it don't fucking matter if the government took all his Lonestar money and he can no longer fulfill any projects. Anyone that hasn't gotten their money back from him by now is shit out of luck.

The deadline to request a chargeback from your bank or credit card is 120 days for Un-delivered products people. Banks don't care about the philosophy of deadbeats, but they do care about their customers getting ripped off. I am never going to accept when a creator promises a book will be delivered after that deadline. If it passes, they have nothing forcing them to deliver or refund besides their conscience.

GYS2's 120 day deadline is the end of July, I hope Jon gets his shit square.

 

[CapeKnight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xJ7ZMIw9tM

Jon Malin's streaming. Sketch pops in at around the 1 hour and 28 mark. Before that, around 10-20 minutes ago, TUG popped in and said some dumb asinine shit that comes as another one of his "burn the mainstream" arguments.

This whole livestream so far is about them talking to a comic shop owner, and basically bitching about how they aren't welcomed in putting their books in comic shops. This Dan guy they're talking to has all his marbles in tact, and here they are, trying to convince him that he should join ComicsGate. This is like a retarded hazing stream. Jon Malin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about half the shit he talks about. He assumes everyone's intentions a lot.

At around 1 hour and 43 minutes in, Ethan starts gaslighting retailors.

Edit: at around 1 hour and 46 minutes, Ethan drops the bomb that he's planning to bring in a big comic artist from DC who's secretly been ComicsGate this whole time... and that he has screenshots and shit. Hmm... SGM anyone?

Edit 2: 1 hour 52 minutes in, Ethan claims Richard is like the Beatles and is the most popular YouTuber in the comics and everyone knows who Richard is. Mother fucker, NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS WHO COUGH MAN IS. STOP LYING EEHEE.

Edit 3: Almost at around 2 hours in, Jon Malin hypocritically says shit like "we don't drag people to tell them what to do" MOTHERFUCKER, YOU JUST DID IT A FEW DAYS AGO.

Edit 4: 2 Hour and 8 minutes in, and Ethan says they speak for Richard on his behalf. Jesus, speak for your fucking selves you spineless bastards.

 

[Newman's Own]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xJ7ZMIw9tM

Jon Malin's streaming. Sketch pops in at around the 1 hour and 28 mark. Before that, around 10-20 minutes ago, TUG popped in and said some dumb asinine shit that comes as another one of his "burn the mainstream" arguments.

This whole livestream so far is about them talking to a comic shop owner, and basically bitching about how they aren't welcomed in putting their books in comic shops. This Dan guy they're talking to has all his marbles in tact, and here they are, trying to convince him that he should join ComicsGate. This is like a exceptional hazing stream. Jon Malin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about half the shit he talks about. He assumes everyone's intentions a lot.

At around 1 hour and 43 minutes in, Ethan starts gaslighting retailors.

Edit: at around 1 hour and 46 minutes, Ethan drops the bomb that he's planning to bring in a big comic artist who's secretly been ComicsGate this whole time... and that he has screenshots and shit. Hmm... SGM anyone?

I really doubt it's SGM.

He's a progressive and a good friend of Tennaple's.

And he's so hot right now he really doesn't need Ethan's base to do gangbusters on a crowd funder.

Curious to see who it is though.

 

[Smug Freiza]

Mike could be the best comic book artist the world ever produced and it don't fucking matter if the government took all his Lonestar money and he can no longer fulfill any projects. Anyone that hasn't gotten their money back from him by now is shit out of luck.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but is there any validity to Mike not having the money to fulfill Lonestar 2? I've seen Ethan make comments on youtube channels about it, or is it all speculation due to the book being overdue?

This whole livestream so far is about them talking to a comic shop owner, and basically bitching about how they aren't welcomed in putting their books in comic shops.

As far I as know there has been no effort by any CG creator (other than Sweetcast) to get their books into Comicbook shops. Ethan has constantly gone on tirades talking about how CG doesn't need LCS's and Indiegogo works just fine (for him).

This Dan guy they're talking to has all his marbles in tact, and here they are, trying to convince him that he should join ComicsGate. This is like a exceptional hazing stream. Jon Malin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about half the shit he talks about. He assumes everyone's intentions a lot.

Dan Fragga? I bet he was just looking at the money the CG pro's were pulling in from the outside and thought to himself how much he'd like a piece of that. Only now that his inside of CG does he realize the pure cringe autism fest he will have to endure to earn his paypig bucks.

Edit: at around 1 hour and 46 minutes, Ethan drops the bomb that he's planning to bring in a big comic artist from DC who's secretly been ComicsGate this whole time... and that he has screenshots and shit. Hmm... SGM anyone?

It won't be SGM, it'll be another pro that hasn't had any work since the mid 2000s. SGM is good friends with Doug and he is a massive fan of Earthworm Jim. I guarantee that Sean would have asked Doug about what happened between him and Ethan and I'm also sure that Doug wouldn't have sugar coated Ethan's more narcissistic behavior either.

Also whats the fucking deal with CG and adopting starving artists? Bring in some fucking writers @FROG , CG has more artists than I have fingers, yet none of them can write a half decent story.

Edit 2: 1 hour 52 minutes in, Ethan claims Richard is like the Beatles and is the most popular YouTuber in the comics and everyone knows who Richard is. Mother fucker, NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS WHO COUGH MAN IS. STOP LYING EEHEE.

Richards audience is mid-size, there are way larger channels than his. Channels in the millions of subscribers which get much higher view counts per sub. I love Zack, but lets not piss in his pocket and tell him its raining.

Edit 4: 2 Hour and 8 minutes in, and Ethan says they speak for Richard on his behalf. Jesus, speak for your fucking selves you spineless bastards.

Its not the first time Ethan has put words in Zacks mouth, but if Zack wants his Jawbreaker's covers and his Mark Waid Go Fund Me money then Zack better let Ethan stick his hand up his arse and use him like a puppet.

 

[Mister Dongs]

Also whats the fucking deal with CG and adopting starving artists? Bring in some fucking writers @FROG , CG has more artists than I have fingers, yet none of them can write a half decent story.

All the artists drawn to CG fantasize about being like the seven artists who founded Image in the 1990s with sole creator owned properties that will make them millionaires. They didn't need writers to get success and they got to keep the whole pie for themselves.
The writers within CG have always had to crowdfund up the money themselves to pay an artist; never the other way around.

I think the most experienced writer involved in Comicsgate right now is CJ Carella, and he's just some regular shitposter in Ethan's chat.

 

[CapeKnight]

I'm not trying to be argumentative but is there any validity to Mike not having the money to fulfill Lonestar 2? I've seen Ethan make comments on youtube channels about it, or is it all speculation due to the book being overdue?

As far I as know there has been no effort by any CG creator (other than Sweetcast) to get their books into Comicbook shops. Ethan has constantly gone on tirades talking about how CG doesn't need LCS's and Indiegogo works just fine (for him).

Dan Fragga? I bet he was just looking at the money the CG pro's were pulling in from the outside and thought to himself how much he'd like a piece of that. Only now that his inside of CG does he realize the pure cringe autism fest he will have to endure to earn his paypig bucks.

It won't be SGM, it'll be another pro that hasn't had any work since the mid 2000s. SGM is good friends with Doug and he is a massive fan of Earthworm Jim. I guarantee that Sean would have asked Doug about what happened between him and Ethan and I'm also sure that Doug wouldn't have sugar coated Ethan's more narcissistic behavior either.

Also whats the fucking deal with CG and adopting starving artists? Bring in some fucking writers @FROG , CG has more artists than I have fingers, yet none of them can write a half decent story.

Richards audience is mid-size, there are way larger channels than his. Channels in the millions of subscribers which get much higher view counts per sub. I love Zack, but lets not piss in his pocket and tell him its raining.

Its not the first time Ethan has put words in Zacks mouth, but if Zack wants his Jawbreaker's covers and his Mark Waid Go Fund Me money then Zack better let Ethan stick his hand up his arse and use him like a puppet.

Nah, not Dan Fragga. Dan Shaihain? Don't know if I got his name correct, he's one of the retailers (ex?) who now runs a YouTube channel that they brought in who has an opposing view to them.

That stream was just them boasting about how big CG is, when it's really not fucking relevant. Has anyone on CG been on a mainstream interview or a YouTube channel that eclipses all their subscriber counts combined? Besides the Jim Jefferies interview (Jim Jefferies is a joke btw), there's nothing. Fucking Sargon can get on Joe Rogan and shit, he's on other podcast channels like Triggernometry, and he went to try and grift himself into a political career. No one in CG has any pull of this weight.

Like seriously, this is just common sense. Most people, who know what any big properties name are like say, Dragonball, Superman, Batman, One Punch Man, all these fucking big IPs, most people CAN'T name the authors or the artists. They don't care to. At least in manga, people are more inclined to learn the guy who writes and draw JoJo is Hirohiko Araki, or the guy who writes and draw My Hero Academia is Kohei Horikoshi because it's one fucking guy, comics though? How many names and runs do I have to keep track of? Sorry, don't give a shit to do that for all of them. THIS is real talk. The most evidence you can give me about people knowing who EVS, or RCM is, it's fucking anecdotal, like the Dan guy said.

EDIT: Like, look man, the only reason people came to ComicsGate is because they weren't buying into DC or Marvel as much or they want better writing, not just art. The people who are staying are either remotely optimistic, naive, or losing their patience. As much as I shit on Liam Grey, I actually like Guyver and all the shit he's ripping off from. I'd read a Guyver rip off over reading stuff like Graveyard Shift or Cyberfrog any day. Most people aren't interested in new stuff unless the synopsis for the story is damn interesting and doing something new with the story mechanic and tropes in them. You know, innovation.

 

[Wise Man]

... is there any validity to Mike not having the money to fulfill Lonestar 2? ...

I should have been more clear, but I was speaking in hypotheticals. Mike's most recent update on the Lonestar 2 campaign is from the 8th and he says he finished the book (6 months later than the original October timeline). But his foreign printer is shut down and he's shopping around for a new one if they can accommodate him sooner.

Is any of the update true? Who knows, the government robbing crowdfund revenue is a funny idea. I've known other small businesses that launch new campaigns to finance the old ones, so Mike's series of unfulfilled followup projects don't engender a lot of confidence. Ninja Division on Kickstarter comes to mind.

 

[VIkkiVerse]

That stream was just them boasting about how big CG is, when it's really not fucking relevant. Has anyone on CG been on a mainstream interview or a YouTube channel that eclipses all their subscriber counts combined? Besides the Jim Jefferies interview (Jim Jefferies is a joke btw), there's nothing. Fucking Sargon can get on Joe Rogan and shit, he's on other podcast channels like Triggernometry, and he went to try and grift himself into a political career. No one in CG has any pull of this weight.

Richard Meyer had an invite to go on Joe Rogan. Ethan told him not to do it.