Infected MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way

[Fougaro]

That's my thing, too. MGTOW claim that "feminazis" have destroyed Western culture and ruined men's lives but when you really look into it most of the people in positions of power are still men. Men are still the ones calling the shots for the most part, although women have definitely made a big impact in the past few decades. Also, social norms like "men are the providers/men must always be strong and never show weakness/men can't be victims" etc have been around long before women's liberation movements and are enforced by other men as well as women.

Interestingly enough, the consensus from the MGTOW circles I have observed, at least among the more level-headed ones who see the full picture (and the more unhinged ones like TFM), seems to be that it is indeed men's fault for allowing things to develop the way they did and that theoretically men could easily reestablish the patriarchy if the majority of them agreed to this; but as it has more or less been already mentioned, when there is no will there is no way. At least I have yet to see any relevant political movement within the civilized world that advocates for bringing back the patriarchy.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I just feel like MRAs in general are obsessed with women being the cause of their problems instead of realizing that a lot of them come from other men and male cultural/legal norms. A lot of them also blatantly fetishize patriarchal cultures where women "know their place" (i.e., they don't have rights and are forced to submit to men in every aspect of life) and things are "sane."

There's a difference between MRAs and MGTOW. MRAs are focused on legal reforms within the current system to turn it more egalitarian; accordingly, they are not anti-woman. Its the MGTOWs that are obsessed with saying that women have caused the current problems and want to return to a patriarchal culture. But, as @Fougaro explained, even most MGTOW will tell you that its ultimately men (who they consider to be pussy whipped, "simps", or some other similar term) who have empowered women. That's why a lot of MGTOW proselytize to such a degree. They want to turn more men over to their cause.

 

[Cosmos]

Interestingly enough, the consensus from the MGTOW circles I have observed, at least among the more level-headed ones who see the full picture (and the more unhinged ones like TFM), seems to be that it is indeed men's fault for allowing things to develop the way they did and that theoretically men could easily reestablish the patriarchy if the majority of them agreed to this; but as it has more or less been already mentioned, when there is no will there is no way. At least I have yet to see any relevant political movement within the civilized world that advocates for bringing back the patriarchy.

There's a difference between MRAs and MGTOW. MRAs are focused on legal reforms within the current system to turn it more egalitarian; accordingly, they are not anti-woman. Its the MGTOWs that are obsessed with saying that women have caused the current problems and want to return to a patriarchal culture. But, as @Fougaro explained, even most MGTOW will tell you that its ultimately men (who they consider to be pussy whipped, "simps", or some other similar term) who have empowered women. That's why a lot of MGTOW proselytize to such a degree. They want to turn more men over to their cause.

Interesting, thanks! I thought there was a lot of crossover between MRAs and MGTOWs but I guess I was wrong.

 

[JaneThough]

Women are actually NOT more often victim of DV, in fact women commit something like 65% single-assaulter DV. Numerous studies support this, including Harvard Med School study. Women ARE more likely to be killed in DV, however.
If you include the way women kill by proxy (cops, courts, etc) through driving men to kill themselves, even that #drastically changes. Any study that says different is almost always based on the extremely flawed Duluth model, sadly so are the laws and courts today.

I'm sure you have plenty of links to back this up. And I am sure you are going to provide them so we can take you seriously.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Interesting, thanks! I thought there was a lot of crossover between MRAs and MGTOWs but I guess I was wrong.

Truth is, many MGTOW, like Turd Flinging Monkey, look down on MRAs precisely because they are trying to reform the system. In their minds, the system is beyond hope as long as women have a say in it. Its why they are pro-patriarchy. This derision is similar to the derision they have towards Conservatives.

 

[Anonymous_Crusader]

Truth is, many MGTOW, like Turd Flinging Monkey, look down on MRAs precisely because they are trying to reform the system. In their minds, the system is beyond hope as long as women have a say in it. Its why they are pro-patriarchy. This derision is similar to the derision they have towards Conservatives.

Ironic that they say they are against feminism but are pro-patriarchy. All they do is legitimize extreme feminists claims.

 

[Rafal Gan Ganowicz]

I'm sure you have plenty of links to back this up. And I am sure you are going to provide them so we can take you seriously.

Well, here's the Harvard study. Also, I was wrong, it's 70% of DV that is initiated by women. For subjective takes, look up Erin Pizzy, who started the UKs first battered women's shelter who has worked in DV industry for 50 years, who gives similar #s. Also the links contained here: https://protectiveordervictims.com/...he-efforts-of-family-law-attorney-lisa-scott/
There are way more studies, to, I'll have to dig them up.
Edited to say @JaneThough , you ever pushed/slapped/hit or kicked your man? Usually those who fight hardest against the truth about this are guilty of it. But give themselves a pass or justification. Usually crap like "man up" or "he's bigger" or "he called me a cunt" You know, the kind of shit that would never justify a man hitting a woman.

Enjoy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/In_Brief_Domestic_violence_Not_always_one_sided

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

You could, but then reality knocks and it turns out men also fabricate false allegations, and they even do it at higher rates than women.

The few mentions of sample sizes are pretty small, they flat-out deny that parental alienation is a thing, and the HHS study they claim supports them is a dead link. I'm going to treat material linked from them to be questionable, or misinterpreted, until I see some that doesn't indicate bias.

Most of these MGTOW who think it's not worth it to be with a woman because of this "cost benefit analysis" likely have zero to even offer anyway. Are you worried a woman will get your mother's basement in the divorce?

Also, men have been in the prime positions of power for literally ever. So if there are all these issues, and the law and such is against men, then maybe take it to the men who put those laws into place.

Just out of curiosity, what sane woman do you think would teach their sons to oppress them, and their daughters to accept being oppressed? And can you demonstrate the intentionality required to perpetuate a 'patriarchy'?

I'm sure you have plenty of links to back this up. And I am sure you are going to provide them so we can take you seriously.

I'll relink the Harvard Health study, and tack on the largest meta-analysis of domestic violence ever done. Women are abusive, too.


Anyways, could we all get back to discussing the hilarity of the MGTOW community? I'd rather go back to laughing at whichever retard was gabbling about "mind-controlling pussy juice."

 

[Rafal Gan Ganowicz]

That's my thing, too. MGTOW claim that "feminazis" have destroyed Western culture and ruined men's lives but when you really look into it most of the people in positions of power are still men. Men are still the ones calling the shots for the most part, although women have definitely made a big impact in the past few decades. Also, social norms like "men are the providers/men must always be strong and never show weakness/men can't be victims" etc have been around long before women's liberation movements and are enforced by other men as well as women.

I just feel like MRAs in general are obsessed with women being the cause of their problems instead of realizing that a lot of them come from other men and male cultural/legal norms. A lot of them also blatantly fetishize patriarchal cultures where women "know their place" (i.e., they don't have rights and are forced to submit to men in every aspect of life) and things are "sane."

WRONG. The people in power have a feminazi agenda, their biological sex has little to do with it. In order to accept "men still hold most power positions" as an argument one needs to conflate their interests with their identity. This is mega-flawed. The entirety of the problem comes from people in power not only recognising women as having EQUAL RIGHTS (a good thing) but then also adding the onto "womens' rights" the privileges afforded women through chivalry. This leaves females in an ultra-privileged position. When equal rights were enshrined, chivalry should have been thrown in the garbage. Chivalry was a "buy-off" afforded to women to counterbalance actual patriarchy. Now that patriarchy doesn't exist in the western world, chivalry needs to be buried.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

WRONG. The people in power have a feminazi agenda, their biological sex has little to do with it. In order to accept "men still hold most power positions" as an argument one needs to conflate their interests with their identity. This is mega-flawed. The entirety of the problem comes from people in power not only recognising women as having EQUAL RIGHTS (a good thing) but then also adding the onto "womens' rights" the privileges afforded women through chivalry. This leaves females in an ultra-privileged position. When equal rights were enshrined, chivalry should have been thrown in the garbage. Chivalry was a "buy-off" afforded to women to counterbalance actual patriarchy. Now that patriarchy doesn't exist in the western world, chivalry needs to be buried.

You are aware that basic manners are expected from people of both sexes, to people of both sexes, right? Holding doors for people isn't some kind of evil feminist plot to steal your penis.

 

[redcent]

WRONG. The people in power have a feminazi agenda, their biological sex has little to do with it. In order to accept "men still hold most power positions" as an argument one needs to conflate their interests with their identity. This is mega-flawed. The entirety of the problem comes from people in power not only recognising women as having EQUAL RIGHTS (a good thing) but then also adding the onto "womens' rights" the privileges afforded women through chivalry. This leaves females in an ultra-privileged position. When equal rights were enshrined, chivalry should have been thrown in the garbage. Chivalry was a "buy-off" afforded to women to counterbalance actual patriarchy. Now that patriarchy doesn't exist in the western world, chivalry needs to be buried.

You're not one of those guys who think women have things extra specially wonderful because men hold doors open and think women get free food?

 

[TerribleIdeas™]

You are aware that basic manners are expected from people of both sexes, to people of both sexes, right? Holding doors for people isn't some kind of evil feminist plot to steal your penis.

To be fair, when being polite and civility ARE presented as a problem, it's invariably (and stupidly) presented as"White people, especially men, are racist to expect civility and politeness from non-whites and non-males, because [insert list of reasons, some of which are absurd and/or made completely up, here]."

Anyways, we should get back to laughing at MGTOWs.

 

[Rafal Gan Ganowicz]

You're not one of those guys who think women have things extra specially wonderful because men hold doors open and think women get free food?

No. I actually do that for both men and women. I'm referring to things like bias towards disbelieving them as equally capable of lying and violence and child abuse, etc. Mostly in courts and the cops and the schools, etc. The pussy pass is definately real. Or things like a man getting his cock cut off is snickered at (and outright justified) when if some monster chopped his wife's tit off, he'd rightly be seen as a dangerous animal who needs putting down. Same with depictions of men getting slapped for saying the wrong thing on media. If you switch the roles, it becomes distinctly unfunny.

 

[haurchefant]

WRONG. The people in power have a feminazi agenda, their biological sex has little to do with it. In order to accept "men still hold most power positions" as an argument one needs to conflate their interests with their identity. This is mega-flawed. The entirety of the problem comes from people in power not only recognising women as having EQUAL RIGHTS (a good thing) but then also adding the onto "womens' rights" the privileges afforded women through chivalry. This leaves females in an ultra-privileged position. When equal rights were enshrined, chivalry should have been thrown in the garbage. Chivalry was a "buy-off" afforded to women to counterbalance actual patriarchy. Now that patriarchy doesn't exist in the western world, chivalry needs to be buried.

So, by how many years do you want the age of consent lowered

 

[Rafal Gan Ganowicz]

So, by how many years do you want the age of consent lowered

None. The fact that's your conclusion says a lot more about you than it does about me or any MGTOW unfortunate, too.

 

[JaneThough]

Well, here's the Harvard study. Also, I was wrong, it's 70% of DV that is initiated by women. For subjective takes, look up Erin Pizzy, who started the UKs first battered women's shelter who has worked in DV industry for 50 years, who gives similar #s. Also the links contained here: https://protectiveordervictims.com/...he-efforts-of-family-law-attorney-lisa-scott/
There are way more studies, to, I'll have to dig them up.
Edited to say @JaneThough , you ever pushed/slapped/hit or kicked your man? Usually those who fight hardest against the truth about this are guilty of it. But give themselves a pass or justification. Usually crap like "man up" or "he's bigger" or "he called me a cunt" You know, the kind of shit that would never justify a man hitting a woman.

Enjoy: https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/In_Brief_Domestic_violence_Not_always_one_sided

To answer your question, I have not hit a person, male or female, since I was a child. Because I'm a fully grown human being who doesn't resort to violence over stupid shit. You seem to be really tender about DV, how many women have you hit?

 

[haurchefant]

None. The fact that's your conclusion says a lot more about you than it does about me or any MGTOW wierdo, too.

You post autistic content and are pretty obsessed with women's social status and accusing other posters of beating their boyfriends just because they made fun of you for defending m'lords honor. Especially since this is the MGTOW thread, I'm going with my gut when it comes to asking questions rofl. This sort of defensiveness and hostility is attention getting but maybe not for the reasons you originally wanted.

Just think of it as getting your visa checked at the border.

 

[Rafal Gan Ganowicz]

You post autistic content and are pretty obsessed with women's social status and accusing other posters of beating their boyfriends just because they made fun of you for defending m'lords honor. Especially since this is the MGTOW thread, I'm going with my gut when it comes to asking questions rofl. This sort of defensiveness and hostility is attention getting but maybe not for the reasons you originally wanted.

Just think of it as getting your visa checked at the border.

Well yeah, social inequality pisses me off. Same reason I supported gay marriage etc. , and hate the sentencing disparities between Blacks and Whites.I'm no MGTOW, btw. What motivation leads you to white-knight? By the way, I never accused anyone of that. merely asked a question. Also what content was "autistic"? You mean the peer reviewed Harvard study?

 

[redcent]

No. I actually do that for both men and women. I'm referring to things like bias towards disbelieving them as equally capable of lying and violence and child abuse, etc. Mostly in courts and the cops and the schools, etc. The pussy pass is definately real. Or things like a man getting his cock cut off is snickered at (and outright justified) when if some monster chopped his wife's tit off, he'd rightly be seen as a dangerous animal who needs putting down. Same with depictions of men getting slapped for saying the wrong thing on media. If you switch the roles, it becomes distinctly unfunny.

I agree male victims need more recognition, by all means, and women should be held as culpable as guys

I don't agree that women have more power in life than men though, not in general. Not in some femnazis conspiracy plot or anything like that

 

[haurchefant]

Well yeah, social inequality pisses me off. Same reason I supported gay marriage etc. , and hate the sentencing disparities between Blacks and Whites.I'm no MGTOW, btw. What motivation leads you to white-knight? By the way, I never accused anyone of that. merely asked a question. Also what content was "autistic"? You mean the peer reviewed Harvard study?

The rambling about chivalry was weird and off topic especially since the modern concept of "chivalry" isn't anything like the original concept: chivalry was a set of rules that men and women had to abide by. You accused someone of domestic violence, which is in fact a very serious thing) without any proof, almost as if you were making a false accusation on purpose for the sake of smearing their character. You can pretend that you were "just asking questions" but your intention was to try and make them out to be an abuser:

Edited to say @JaneThough , you ever pushed/slapped/hit or kicked your man? Usually those who fight hardest against the truth about this are guilty of it. But give themselves a pass or justification. Usually crap like "man up" or "he's bigger" or "he called me a cunt" You know, the kind of shit that would never justify a man hitting a woman.

This is a pretty blatant accusation and designed to bait someone. It's pretty disingenuous to pass this off as "just asking questions."

This was done just because they mocked you. When you posted claiming that MGTOW doesn't want to take women's rights away, despite being in a thread dedicated to documenting those moments, @redcent felt compelled to step in and make a long post demonstrating that this was wrong. You didn't respond to that post either.

So uhhh yeah. The thing about KF is that we're all autistic but you're managing to stand out from the pack.