The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

Honestly, speaking more of the first game, I would have personally prefered if the DLC focused on Joel more than Ellen. Why? Simple, we skip, I dont know, "just" 20 years of his life in the apocalypse. The dialogue made it seem like we could have seen things like Joel being one of the bad guys, the bandits that is (tho from his reaction to the cannibal freezer, seems like he his band of bandits werent THAT fucking despered in comparison). See how he and Tommy grew more and more distant to the point the latter just left the former, telling he doesnt want to see him ever again (and they only do years later when Joel is with Ellen, it would show us how Joel different was back then and now).

Now it would be kind of constantly skipping time or focus on a very important moment in his life. Joel was a refreshing character because we werent playing as a good guy or even a neutral guy.

Joel, if you consider everything, is kind of a anti-villain/hero (he switches between both). He did horrible things but it was to ultimately survive, nothing personal, while at the end he did a horrible and selfish thing to keep Ellen alive so he wouldnt lose a daughter figure for the second time. Its refreshing to play as a guy that, in any other story, would be a villain or at least the asshole of the crew (Im not saying it NEVER happened before but this felt like the most mainstream example, even Kratos was sort of justified in his murder quests if you see that the greek gods deserved all of that).

I love TLOU because at the end, it doesnt state that morality is meaningless, simply that it seems so to broken people. Joel is VERY broken and Ellen is the closest thing of goodness he has in this awful world (for him, humanity deserves to be wiped out, ignoring the good people in it) so he destroyed the closest thing to salvation the world had to keep that goodness alive. It doesnt say he did the correct him but it doesnt say what he did was evil. In the end, like most great stories, its up to you.

And I wanted the DLC to show more about Joel's character, so the ending has more weight. Make us see that we shouldnt expect a broken morally ambiguious man to do the correct thing in the end, he is no Nathan Drake, he is an extremely flawed human being at the end of the day.

"Swear to me that everything you told me about the fireflies is true..."
".........I swear."
"........Okay...."

Such a powerful ending.

Seems like that was a brief trend in games around 2012/2013 was moral ambiguity.

You had games like Last of Us, but also Bioshock Infinite, with it's communist flavored rebellion turning out to be as bad as the racists they're rebelling against (imagine that being in a game today) and of course Spec Ops: The Line.

Because back in the early 2010s people still had brains between their ears and could acknowledge that the world is a complicated place where things aren't always black and white, but then Current Year kicked off and now everything has been reduced to black and white, good guys versus bad guys.
 
Days Gone is an interesting example of that. The overall plot is fairly black and white, but the protagonist - Deacon - has such fantastic acting (I can't recall his name right now, annoyingly) it makes him a lot more ambiguous than the writing wants it to be. He stammers, he stutters, he works himself up into a rage when killing people, mutters a lot of dark shit, etc.

He's elevated to a brilliant degree by the voice work and the plot struggles a bit to mesh it with how other people reacts to him. The story wants you to think he's a great, kind guy, but the actor has turned him into a socially maladjusted killer that just happens to be murdering the right people.
 
Seems like that was a brief trend in games around 2012/2013 was moral ambiguity.

You had games like Last of Us, but also Bioshock Infinite, with it's communist flavored rebellion turning out to be as bad as the racists they're rebelling against (imagine that being in a game today) and of course Spec Ops: The Line.

Because back in the early 2010s people still had brains between their ears and could acknowledge that the world is a complicated place where things aren't always black and white, but then Current Year kicked off and now everything has been reduced to black and white, good guys versus bad guys.

Man, you are making me miss those times...I personally dont love Bioshock Infinite like most do (I think the plot can get very psudo intellectual and the gameplay changes were for the worse) but I miss a lot of its twists and themes, especially showing that the revolutionaries were just as bad as the establishment...

And yeah, almost no game nowadays dares to have too much gray in their games, I wonder why...


Days Gone is an interesting example of that. The overall plot is fairly black and white, but the protagonist - Deacon - has such fantastic acting (I can't recall his name right now, annoyingly) it makes him a lot more ambiguous than the writing wants it to be. He stammers, he stutters, he works himself up into a rage when killing people, mutters a lot of dark shit, etc.

He's elevated to a brilliant degree by the voice work and the plot struggles a bit to mesh it with how other people reacts to him. The story wants you to think he's a great, kind guy, but the actor has turned him into a socially maladjusted killer that just happens to be murdering the right people.

Man I need to play Days Gone...you reminded me of that fact.
 
Days Gone is an interesting example of that. The overall plot is fairly black and white, but the protagonist - Deacon - has such fantastic acting (I can't recall his name right now, annoyingly) it makes him a lot more ambiguous than the writing wants it to be. He stammers, he stutters, he works himself up into a rage when killing people, mutters a lot of dark shit, etc.

He's elevated to a brilliant degree by the voice work and the plot struggles a bit to mesh it with how other people reacts to him. The story wants you to think he's a great, kind guy, but the actor has turned him into a socially maladjusted killer that just happens to be murdering the right people.
Sam Witwer plays him! He's a really talented actor. Like Troy Baker with Joel, it's amazing how much more depth can be added when you get a really good actor to play the part.
 
Okay let's go at this one piece at a time.
The key things you're missing is what goes on and what can happen in the pre-production phase, especially when transitioning into game production, and the timeline of events for the game.

Pre-production usually consists of a team coming together and writing out the main ideas of the game, developing where certain key points in the narrative may happen, and how the game actually plays. This can all change wildly in development due to how complicated the process is to making the game, and as a result, can cause massive delays in the game, or cause a team to need more time to do that, but generally, if all of those people stay on and you have a goal to achieve, the game'll usually stay on schedule without any serious hitches. Which wasn't the case for The Last of Us Part II.

2016 was when the game started production, as in when they started working on the game, but pre-production on the game had started in 2014, right after they wrapped up Uncharted 4, and the reason we know this is because the people working on it flat-out told people this as they were wrapping up mocap shooting back in April of last year. All-hands-on-deck-mode, meaning this is the sole project that the studio is working on, didn't start until after they finished up Lost Legacy, and needed people from there to help make the game.

Right now, Naughty Dog is, I'd assume, in the post-production phase as they're finishing polishing up the game (which we know they're in because they'd stated they were already doing that when they delayed it for an additional two weeks, because they said it didn't meet their standard of quality just yet), sound mixing, editing any pre-rendered cutscenes that were created by the staff during production, and anything else that isn't covered by the main development team.

Like...you don't just make a fully-rendered trailer with allusions to a storyline and time skip that much in the narrative if you haven't started working on anything yet or for something that just began production. If you ARE, that's not only a colossal waste of money for a trailer that could mean nothing later down the line, but you also actively lied to your audience to generate hype: which even for their faults, I don't think even the artsy-fartsy factory that Naughty Dog would do something that dumb.

Didn't Anthem have even less people leave and yet that game turned out to be a massive shitshow in the end because the main director/creative consultants for that game dropped like flies? All detailed in an post-mortem Schreier himself wrote up? And that was for a game that had an 8 year cycle from another lauded game company, BioWare. Naughty Dog had six and they've already lost this many people working on The Last of Us Part II. And that's not even counting the people they already lost (i.e. Amy Henning, the main lady of the Uncharted series) over creative differences while working on U4), and Uncharted 4 showed how badly that affected the game. Not enough for a completely shit game, but enough that it wasn't as highly-regarded and for people to point out the pacing issues and weak story the game had.

Again, the amount of people leaving doesn't matter: it's the roles those people had and what they did that'll have a huge impact. If it's just some random buttfuck designer then yeah, who cares: there's plenty out there that are willing to take your place. If it's one of the lead writers, a director, or anyone in a higher position, not only do you have to account for the story losing some of those most integral people responsible for making the thing, and looking over your work to see if it meets their idea, but any potential changes could mean swathes.

70% of the designers left, yes: but not only was Uncharted 4, and pre-production on The Lost Legacy, being made by the entirety of the company up until release, where they had created a B-team for finishing up The Lost Legacy in the meantime, while the main team starting work on TLoU, but again: if we're going only by what Schreier says, you'd have seen in the crunch article several former Naughty Dog employees expressing unusal grievances with the project; discussing that while the game they believe is good and worthy of praise, and that working at Naughty Dog is an excellent resume filler, the work environment was brutal: doubly so with all of the new blood they had to hire and teach for The Last of Us: Part II and The Lost Legacy.

It's a lot of people in comparison to, say the comic industry, but if you somehow believe losing 70% of the workforce responsible for designing the game, something much more complex than a comic book, in a medium where you need that many people as projects get bigger and bigger, while three people getting promotions is a net good, then I'm wasting my breath even explaining this, but fuck it: I may as well make it entertaining for everyone else reading here.

Naughty Dog's also not part of the "tech industry", I don't know where the hell you're getting that from. Even Schreier has never referred to them as such, who (for someone you seem to hate, you sure seem to trust him a shitload and ignore half of the details in the articles he writes). Valve is more akin a tech development studio that doubles as a game development than Naughty Dog is.

oh my fucking god
Just because everyone else does it, that doesn't make it okay.
Do I really gotta bring up the question "If all of your friends jumped off a cliff and told you it was fine, would you do it?", because you're actually one of those r.etards who thinks the correct answer is to jump

60 hour work weeks are fine, that's the world of working. 80-100 hours work weeks with no sleep, where you sometimes don't come home and have to sleep and eat at your desk is a fucking nightmare that can destroy the human body. And if you think that that IS normal because the opposing viewpoint fits into union propaganda, you're fucking delusional.

I keep bringing up Schreier because you won't stop being a massive hyperactive nitpicker about me listing other sources except him. I could give a shit less about his opinion on unions, but now that you brought it up, I guess I can talk about it; what I especially don't get is why you think crunch is a good thing, deride Schreier for it, yet constantly want to bring up how Schreier is a verifiable source, except for the cases where his articles don't apply to your argument. You can't just pick and choose to believe him due to him doing things like leaking the Fallout scripts or whatnot in order prove his industry status/connections, yet completely ignore him when he writes about crunch or brush off his developer post-mortems as him lying/unionist propaganda: either he has complete insider knowledge and connections, or he doesn't and he's lying. Pick one.

What you just posted was a Twitter thread with Schreier talking about how he believes late-stage capitalism is bad, within a retweet to Jeff Bezos donating $10 million dollars in addressing climate change.
There's nothing about The Last of Us or Naughty Dog employees in here, and the quote you linked doesn't appear anywhere in there. Like, I'm legitimately confused here: are you trying to make a point that Schreier has connections in the industry because...Amazon employees are forced to work with no bathroom breaks for a power-hungry greedy CEO? I genuinely don't understand what the connection is here.

If this is meant to be a verifier for him pushing his take on unions, I don't see what the problem is here with his argument: this is the coldest take I've seen on Amazon I've ever seen. Amazon's factory conditions are notoriously brutal. Even if you wanna bring up how that's still unionist propaganda: how the fuck does capitalism that factor into incidents like the ones where people have accidentally bear-maced themselves because the cans weren't stored properly? Twice, in two different factories? Or other events that showcase the factory's terrible conditions? You can't blame the worker for r.etarded decisions the company makes.

You can make a good game and love what you're working on, but you can also fucking HATE how you got there...or better yet, you just lie/not break your NDA and talk about how good it is so as to not piss off the people who are going to sign your recommendations when you move to a better studio. If you want me to give a personal experience, I can say I love the videos that I made, or artwork that I've recently worked on, and I absolutely mean that when I say it. That doesn't mean I didn't think it was a long, excruciating, and borderline painful process; and these were for passion projects, I can only imagine how much worse it would be if I did that having an unreasonably short deadline and executives breathing down my neck.

You suffer for your art, and in the working world, you gotta deal with it, that's true: but there's only so much pressure and agony the human body can take before it gives out; there's a limit.

And lastly:

...why do you exceptional morons keep TAKING the BAIT...what is it about it that makes it so TASTY and tantalizing to you...‽
TL;DR: Holy shit OP is a dumbass and quite possibly a communist (or at the very least REALLY hates unions. Huh, whodathunkit? :stress:
There's not single fact in this pablum that you've written up. Assumptions galore. And the things that you have suggested are factual are not.

TLOU2 was not in full production as of August 2017:


"So, we can pretty much say the whole studio will be focussed on The Last of Us Part Two once this is over. At some point, parts of the team that will try to figure out what's next and how that goes when The Last of Us Part Two is full production."

Only in full production as of October 2017:

It also seems you took the "unrelated argument" route.

But have it your way. Beyond this point, I will let the chips fall where they may.
 
also Bioshock Infinite, with it's communist flavored rebellion turning out to be as bad as the racists they're rebelling against (imagine that being in a game today)

Man, you are making me miss those times...I personally dont love Bioshock Infinite like most do (I think the plot can get very psudo intellectual and the gameplay changes were for the worse) but I miss a lot of its twists and themes, especially showing that the revolutionaries were just as bad as the establishment...
Worth noting that the Burial at Sea DLC undid this theme by having Daisy realize she had to sacrifice herself so that Elizabeth can get the will to take down Comstock. In fact, she didn't want to harm Fink's son, but was convinced to only threaten him to push Elizabeth into retaliating.

The rot was already starting not long after BioShock Infinite came out when it arbitrarily decided to undo the one coherent theme it had going for it because it made the crazed black freedom fighter look evil.
 
Worth noting that the Burial at Sea DLC undid this theme by having Daisy realize she had to sacrifice herself so that Elizabeth can get the will to take down Comstock. In fact, she didn't want to harm Fink's son, but was convinced to only threaten him to push Elizabeth into retaliating.

The rot was already starting not long after BioShock Infinite came out when it arbitrarily decided to undo the one coherent theme it had going for it because it made the crazed black freedom fighter look evil.

Yes, I know, but the Vox Populi themselves still kill random people.

And that was still DLC that came out a year or even over a year later, just judging from the main game of Bioshock Infinite there was no indication Daisy wasn't really trying to murder that kid.

Things were indeed changing fast in 2014 though, that was the same year of the Last of Us DLC, that's why things eventually came to a head with Gamergate that year.

Man, you are making me miss those times...I personally dont love Bioshock Infinite like most do (I think the plot can get very psudo intellectual and the gameplay changes were for the worse) but I miss a lot of its twists and themes, especially showing that the revolutionaries were just as bad as the establishment...

And yeah, almost no game nowadays dares to have too much gray in their games, I wonder why...

I don't love it either, the story is pretty messy and I didn't like how it was far more linear and lacked the exploration of the first Bioshock.

But looking back on it for a game from 2013 the whole idea of an America stand in being destroyed by racial division and the communist flavored rebellion being as bad as what they're rebelling against is honestly kind of chillingly prescient.
 
There's not single fact in this pablum that you've written up. Assumptions galore. And the things that you have suggested are factual are not.

TLOU2 was not in full production as of August 2017:




Only in full production as of October 2017:

It also seems you took the "unrelated argument" route.

But have it your way. Beyond this point, I will let the chips fall where they may.

Sorry man, but you've provided no real argument but "nuh-uh". Seems like any time a point gets brought and backed you pull the 'that's not good enough' card. The farms sees through that kinda shit pretty quick.

Aka

90724642_2689431567821184_247747410283986944_n.jpg
 
So major update. A major spoiler scene has leaked. Resetera and Sony PR are going nuts about it. Someone has access to a near full/final build and has been leaking story cutscenes. It's quite possible the entire story could be leaked soon.

Looking strongly like all the leaked spoilers are true.

This has to be an absolute nightmare for Sony and Naughty Dog. The leaker claims to have all the main story cutscenes. I'm really curious if the leak can be traced back to disgruntled employees. A lot has come out over the terrible company culture the last few months.

Now I'm really curious if Sony/ND are going to try and do some major rewrites to save face.

Edit: Twitter link that has a small part of the clip up. Can't archive right now, so if someone could please. https://mobile.twitter.com/ParaSeoul/status/1254490418483511298

Edit 2: Full ending has reportedly leaked, be wary if you're avoiding spoilers.

Edit 3: The full ending was livestreamed on Twitch.

Edit 4: Holy hell, they tatted up and sexualized Ellie. A sexualised teenager might get Sony some blowback. I'm LMAOing at Druckmann going for the most woke lesbian stereotype. It's cliche as all hell.
 
Last edited:
Back