Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Kiwi Lime Pie]

It's especially egregious since they never even address the root cause of the violence - black people beat the fuck outta their kids, and the poor health - they CHOOSE to eat like shit.

Poor health also goes beyond eating habits. In states with legal recreational marijuana, look at how many urban and inner-city areas have a disproportionately high number of pot shops aggressively marketing themselves to residents -- most of whom are minorities. Even overlooking any THC-related health effects, smoking any sort of cigarette has been reported to increase the risk of contracting COVID-19 and having the disease be more devastating on the smoker's body.

The Senate passed two resolutions (Resolution 111, archive; Resolution 112, archive) yesterday asking Governor Whitmer to allow elective surgeries to resume and construction companies to open; and to change our guidelines for "essential" workers to match the federal guidelines.
Today's attempts at negotiations appear to have failed, and nothing seems to have gotten done.

This isn't surprising. As I've said before, Whitmer's promise to be open to bipartisanship has been nothing but puffery during her term as governor. The quote you posted from her (“I am completely focused on saving lives. I am not going to engage in political negotiations with anybody. We don’t have time for politics and games when people’s lives are on the line."), is telling. Sure, it's the Republican-controlled state legislature that wants to see people be able to return to their jobs. As far as I can tell, the legislators want to see this happen in a methodical, safe, and prudent manner that incorporates increased testing and decreased infection rates. What's partisan/political about that, apart from the party labels on the majority of people involved?

Governor Whitmer also released a plan to provide free college for essential workers without college degrees.

Ordinarily, I'd say this type of thing is fine and dandy in itself. However, this is frustrating to see when nonessential workers have had their hours reduced or eliminated with no word from the governor when they might be able to start working their normal shifts again. The governor's continued lack of assurances for them is rightfully frustrating. If non-essential workers have no prospect of returning to their jobs any time soon, shouldn't they also have the opportunity for free job (re)training to get them back into the workforce too?

If she tries to argue otherwise she will get slapped down by courts in a matter of hours.

I don't know nearly enough about the law to weigh in on who's right or how the courts will or should rule, but that's what the papers have been saying.

A court challenge on the conflicting laws being invoked could be interesting. It's already been posted that Governor Whitmer indefinitely suspended the need for her/the state to respond to civil suits within 14 (or however many) days to try to stave off some of the legal challenges people have filed regarding her executive orders. Should a case go to a different court, the ruling will depend on the makeup of the bench as the ruling will invariably split along party/ideological lines and result in appeals until there can be no more. In short, any legal challenge will result in a big, protracted mess.

Problems with CA's unemployment system. It's ancient.

Replace California with any other state and that statement will likely remain true. Government's answer to antiquated computer systems is interim kludges that never seem to give way to a truly new/better system. It's like putting duct tape on a car whose frame is so rusty it's ready to disintegrate with each bump in the road while promising to get a replacement car "soon."

Even when states follow through with new systems, cost/budgetary overruns are the norm and the project gets delayed. If the system ends up completed, it's not unusual for the new system to be as functionally and technologically obsolete as the system being replaced.

Thats not a problem if its well run...

Are any state unemployment agencies well run even when there's not a huge demand for their services as they are now?

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

Social distancing in general is fucking exceptional because if you have mask and generally clean yourself up, you are not going to get infected. It's only when you are touching shit that other people coofed on or people touching their nose and wiping it on their seat or just touching their face and then touching other shit, does it ever become a problem.

If people had masks All the time before they leave the house, it removes 99% chance of infected morons touching their face and then touching other shit.

Mask is idiot proof. People need to get that through their head. Mask is the ONLY solution.

Yeah, N95 masks, sure, but good luck finding those unless you have the hookup. Improvised masks have a wide range of effectiveness depending on the construction quality, and the worst ones are barely any better than no mask at all.

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE]

Yeah, N95 masks, sure, but good luck finding those unless you have the hookup. Improvised masks have a wide range of effectiveness depending on the construction quality, and the worst ones are barely any better than no mask at all.

I got a hook up so I am good.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

Layer of Cotton
2 layers of shop towels (rotate one layer 90 degrees)
Layer of Cotton

Congrats, you have a N95 mask equivalent. You could even shove two layers of shop towel in a ski mask that covers the face and probably be fine.

 

[AmpleApricots]

Germany update:

Every state in Germany now decreed to wear masks when indoor in public places and in public transit. I've been grocery shopping a few days ago. Every single person except one guy I saw wore a mask. They were of different designs and qualities but were at the very least the disposable ones, no scarfs or anything. I really was surprised and didn't think I'd see a nearly 100% participation. Many people also wear their mask in the streets, while some put them on before entering these locations. The one guy who didn't wear a mask I saw was black and looked confused. Judging from how he looked around I have the feeling he had no idea what was going on, probably some refugee who doesn't speak german. He was flagged down by store workers really quickly and told that he has to either put on a mask or leave the store. I don't think he undestood. I didn't want to linger around and wanted to leave as quickly as possible as the store was relatively full, so I have no idea what happened then. All major grocery chains started selling masks for the cost of the masks themselves, without making a profit from it themselves. Or so they say. They were cheap when you compare to online though so it's probably true. I noticed toilet paper exists at the store in several qualities and brands again, which was nice. There was no shortage of anything.

Small and some big retail stores were allowed to open up again last week under strict rules for hygiene and how many people were allowed in the stores at once. Stores in general didn't reach that limit and remained relatively empty, it was not a good first week for them. People are very cautious. Some schools for some classes have opened up again too. It remains to be seen what the effect will be. Since german Hospitals are doing fine right now, many return back to normal operation and do elective surgeries etc. again. In some major urban areas emergency hopsitals were put up for lighter cases and will be kept, they do remain empty though. There's still a recruiting drive for doctors going on who can work in these hospitals shall the need arise.

We have about ~30.000 active cases in Germany as of now, the last few days we had about 1000-1500 new cases a day and usually double the number of people recovered. Slightly below 200 deaths a day. (with a total of slightly above 6k deaths) Currently one person infects about 0.75 other people. Some cities, especially in the east, had no new infections in days. Germany as of now does about ~470k tests a week and the laboratories could process about double that if they needed to. Germany's testing labs are underwhelmed, and the strategy now is to test absolutely everyone who shows even a hint of a symptom, no other requirements. There will also be regular testing in critical locations like retirement homes and hospitals. Last week 5.4% of all tests taken were positive, which was the lowest level of positive tests ever. Test capacities are still in the process of being expanded. There's also now a major effort to stack up the personnel capabilities of the public health authorities and the goal is to have at least one contact tracing team per 20k population countrywide. There's also a country wide antibody study going on. On top of that, there are plans to pay a bonus to all healthcare personnel. (up to 1500 euros)

In best german manner in german social media there's a lot of complaining going on why things aren't going better and why they are so terrible. I have a good feeling about how things are going right now and hope that the opening of stores won't upset the balance. We will see I guess. I wish you Burgers good luck.

 

[StarkRavingMad]

No.


View attachment 1261647

I still don't believe that this is real. Are people still taking this at face value (pardon the pun), or has this been revealed as nothing more than Chinese propaganda already?

This "news" came out during the exact same time China's narrative was all about how the "darkies from Africa were bringing the Coronavirus back to China" a few weeks ago. They were literally banning anyone with darker skin from shopping or going out to eat.

Anything to not accept the blame or responsibility for literally ALL of this. I bet that the Chinese Nationals ate this all up, too.

 

[heathercho]

Remember how, when S.Korea said that they may have possibly had some re-infections and I said that S.Korea's CDC were unlikely to say their tests were incorrect, because they were in the midst of getting people to obey their orders and their orders hinged on complete trust in the CDC? They've lifted a lot of their orders as of a few days ago and...

Guess what, their tests were "likely wrong". Source/Archive. That timing, tho.

South Korea’s infectious disease experts said Thursday that dead virus fragments were the likely cause of over 260 people here testing positive again for the novel coronavirus days and even weeks after marking full recoveries.

A lot of ID experts/epidemiologists who said this was likely the case, were shot down. Told their thinking was "dangerous" by other ID experts/epidemiologists and that we must "wait" for confirmation. The WHO rushed to say that anti-bodies may not provide any assistance against reinfection, some WHO-ers said "SK is showing that reinfection is likely, we must keep locking down". All baseless, all illogical.

Logic is gone from science. It's a corrupt institution based on political, economic and ideological bias.

Mask is idiot proof. People need to get that through their head. Mask is the ONLY solution.

Masks are no panacea for infection, if it were, Asian countries wouldn't have normal seasonal flu epidemics.
Transmission happens, it's something that's natural and needed for our immune systems. This isn't the major killer it was framed as. Social distancing is autistic, but we have a bunch of "scientists" with unquestioned authority so what can one expect.

Coronachan may have gotten boring but at least there is still some hilarity down the madland of South America.

It's autumn season in the South Hemisphere now and I have this slightly suspicion that wuflu is influenced by cold weather. If my suspicions are correct then the next wuflu hotbed will be South America.

The Southern Hemisphere encapsulates a range of latitudes, UV exposures and socio-economic variables.
Brazil's seasonal influenza infections are influenced by latitude, but also by socio-economics. The poorer, the less healthy, the more likely to be infected.
SARS was only influenced somewhat by temp changes, by virtue of the lowering of the human immune system. But the study was so... whatever, it's not exactly clear. This is also another interesting study, again, where the outcome is as clear as mud. There's another one that's sidebar'd on that page, that examines UV and temp issues in Chinese Cities, re: covid, but the results didn't draw strong correlations.

Lockdowns also lower the human immune system by forcing people inside, yet we went ahead with that without question. South America's likelihood of being a hotbed is down to it's poverty, more than it's latitude and climate, tbh.

 

[Rudy Russo]

Outside China

3,109,942 confirmed / 223,001 dead / 894,245 recovered

3030721 / 212352 / 847518 yesterday

USA
1,039,909 confirmed / 60,967 dead / 120,720 recovered JohnHopkins
1,042,251 confirmed / 60,257 dead / 147,411 recovered Infection2020

1012399 / 58348 / 115648 yesterday JohnHopkins
1016457 / 58055 / 14238 yesterday Infection2020

Spain

236,899 confirmed / 24,275 dead / 132,929 recovered

232128 / 23822 / 123903 yestday

Italy

203,591 confirmed / 27,682 dead / 71,252 recovered

201505 / 27359 / 68941 recovered

France

166,543 confirmed / 24,121 dead / 49,118 recovered

169053 / 23694 / 47775 yesterday

Germany

161,539 confirmed / 6,467 dead / 120,400 recovered

159912 / 6314 / 117400 yesterday


France confirmed are wrong because John Hopkins must screw up french number once a week, its like a law of the universe or something.

Infection2020 still having problems with updates.

 

[5ever a crab]

Layer of Cotton
2 layers of shop towels (rotate one layer 90 degrees)
Layer of Cotton

View attachment 1262596

Congrats, you have a N95 mask equivalent. You could even shove two layers of shop towel in a ski mask that covers the face and probably be fine.

When my mum made her own mask using house filters that were like N95s; better than nothing and she likes sewing anyway, made a bunch of cute ones with her fellow boomer pals on facetime.

Spoiler: Nippon's speculation on (some) legit low cases

While talking to her my mom mentioned the low cases in Japan. She thinks some may of been covered-up for Olympics, but also there was some immunity because of the specific vaccine they take (I think its Japanese encephalitis). Its not confirmed but that's what some are theorizing on the news. It doesn't give a 100% immunity but rather a defense boost depending on person-to-person.
might be late and gay but I thought it was interesting none the less

 

[pull over dat ass too fat]

is it just me or do a bunch of government officials look like they've aged yeears in the matter of weeks? my governor has surely seen better days.

 

[heathercho]

When my mum made her own mask using house filters that were like N95s; better than nothing and she likes sewing anyway, made a bunch of cute ones with her fellow boomer pals on facetime.

Spoiler: Nippon's speculation on (some) legit low cases

While talking to her my mom mentioned the low cases in Japan. She thinks some may of been covered-up for Olympics, but also there was some immunity because of the specific vaccine they take (I think its Japanese encephalitis). Its not confirmed but that's what some are theorizing on the news. It doesn't give a 100% immunity but rather a defense boost depending on person-to-person.
might be late and gay but I thought it was interesting none the less

I can genuinely tell you that the deaths in Japan are the proper death tolls, not a cover up from the Olympics.
They're in the 75+% range, with outliers (i.e an actress who had advanced breast cancer died from it, she was 62).
Plus Japan and SK are doing different treatments and both get the BCG vaccines (currently being trialed to see if it actually does help).

 

[Disheveled Human]

is it just me or do a bunch of government officials look like they've aged yeears in the matter of weeks? my governor has surely seen better days.

Imagine being in their shoes, no matter what decisions they make they are gonna piss people off. Stress levels must be off the charts combined with sleepless nights. My officials look super tired, visibly worried and legitimately seem unsure about what to do.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Remember how, when S.Korea said that they may have possibly had some re-infections and I said that S.Korea's CDC were unlikely to say their tests were incorrect, because they were in the midst of getting people to obey their orders and their orders hinged on complete trust in the CDC? They've lifted a lot of their orders as of a few days ago and...

Guess what, their tests were "likely wrong". Source/Archive. That timing, tho.

And this is why you shouldn't blindly trust Science, it is always 100% completely right....

Until it turns out to be wrong, but NOW it is totally 100% right.

 

[Rudy Russo]

BREAKING: Governor Gavin Newsom to Close All State Parks and Beaches Across California

https://archive.vn/gbmFl

Lets see if this is true. If so I'd think it on the same level as self circumcision with a chainsaw stupidity but there are alot of sheep in Cali that'll bend over and say "baa".

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

I was walking by a golf course today and saw a bunch of Boomers all crowded around the clubhouse. Something tells me that people around here are going to totally blow off the social distancing rules once summer gets into full swing. I'm not even sure the cops will be able to keep people away from the local beaches, even though they'll probably be officially closed down. I'm a poor person and summer festivals were a nice cheap way to stretch out my entertainment budget, but now it looks as if they'll all be cancelled for the summer. I'm looking at a long, slow, boring next few months coming up. The weather around here is pretty wretched for 9 months out of the year so the loss of summer activities will be keenly felt.

 

[AmpleApricots]

And this is why you shouldn't blindly trust Science, it is always 100% completely right....

Until it turns out to be wrong, but NOW it is totally 100% right.

Most scientific progress is made by disproving scientific progress made earlier.

I never bought this reinfection thing to begin with to be honest. I'd be generally careful with wild claims about this virus that hint at it behaving wildly different from other diseases of it's kind. If it was the virus of doom some people try to paint it as that attaches itself to dust and spreads itself to kilometers of area like some wild early theories were claiming, we would see the measures taken do absolutely nothing. While this virus is novel, more and more points at that it is not THAT novel.

There's a 40 minute podcast (in german) twice a week of a german virologist called Christian Drosten who focuses on novel viruses, especially coronaviruses like SARS or MERS and this one. He was one of the scientists that discovered SARS and developed the first working test for it and he also lead a group that developed the standard test for corona-chan that was made available world wide in mid-Janurary. He also did extensive research on MERS. So he's not just some rando scientist with an opinion like you see so often these days, he has an extensive background in these kinds of viruses. His podcast I often listen to stands out for me that he's incredibly good at filtering out junk preprints (and explaining why they're junk in an accessible manner) and has a very good knack regarding finding the good prepints and theorizing about stuff that turns out to be right weeks later.

He thinks that immunity will last for at least one or two years if the infection was sufficiently bad and while he doesn't say that reinfection is at all impossible (especially later on on that timescale) he's of the opinion that reinfections will lead at most to mild symptoms comparable to a cold with people who have antibodies. He also talked about a study and a personal theory of his that infection with "common cold" coronaviruses probably also might give some degree of immunity to this one, which he thinks might explain the many light to asymptomatic cases. (Still not enough for herd immunity ever though) It's a really high quality podcast and I'd recommend it here if it wasn't in german, dude turns out to be right very often.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Most scientific progress is made by disproving scientific progress made earlier.

Yeah but we aren't allowed to do that. If you dare say you dare say that people like Bill Gates or the WHO are blowing this shit out of proportion you are an "Anti Science Moron."

 

[Tomboy Respecter]

Most scientific progress is made by disproving scientific progress made earlier.

I never bought this reinfection thing to begin with to be honest. I'd be generally careful with wild claims about this virus that hint at it behaving wildly different from other diseases of it's kind. If it was the virus of doom some people try to paint it as that attaches itself to dust and spreads itself to kilometers of area like some wild early theories were claiming, we would see the measures taken do absolutely nothing. While this virus is novel, more and more points at that it is not THAT novel.

There's a 40 minute podcast (in german) twice a week of a german virologist called Christian Drosten who focuses on novel viruses, especially coronaviruses like SARS or MERS and this one. He was one of the scientists that discovered SARS and developed the first working test for it and he also lead a group that developed the standard test for corona-chan that was made available world wide in mid-Janurary. He also did extensive research on MERS. So he's not just some rando scientist with an opinion like you see so often these days, he has an extensive background in these kinds of viruses. His podcast I often listen to stands out for me that he's incredibly good at filtering out junk preprints (and explaining why they're junk in an accessible manner) and has a very good knack regarding finding the good prepints and theorizing about stuff that turns out to be right weeks later.

He thinks that immunity will last for at least one or two years if the infection was sufficiently bad and while he doesn't say that reinfection is at all impossible (especially later on on that timescale) he's of the opinion that reinfections will lead at most to mild symptoms comparable to a cold with people who have antibodies. He also talked about a study and a personal theory of his that infection with "common cold" coronaviruses probably also might give some degree of immunity to this one, which he thinks might explain the many light to asymptomatic cases. (Still not enough for herd immunity ever though) It's a really high quality podcast and I'd recommend it here if it wasn't in german, dude turns out to be right very often.

I figured that immunity would last for 1-3 years since that's typically the range that immunity lasts for coronaviruses. What I'm wondering is why epidemiologists didn't figure that since they were working with a coronavirus, that they should initially treat it like the common cold at best and SARS at worst. I know why the media treats it like the doomsday virus, but I would think that would be an educated guess regarding this novel virus in the scientific field.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

BREAKING: Governor Gavin Newsom to Close All State Parks and Beaches Across California

https://archive.vn/gbmFl

Lets see if this is true. If so I'd think it on the same level as self circumcision with a chainsaw stupidity but there are alot of sheep in Cali that'll bend over and say "baa".

California is closing their parks at the same time Washington is opening all of theirs.
If anyone wanted concrete proof that the Western States Pact was just grandstanding, this is it.

 

[Coleslaw]

Maybe, maybe not. We've got two laws that seem to say two different things, or at least that's what's being argued.
Act 302 of 1945, MCL section 10.31-.33 seems to give the governor an indefinite timeframe, and that's what she's been arguing.
Link, archive

Spoiler: Legalese, Emphasis Added

(1) During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting, catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the state, or reasonable apprehension of immediate danger of a public emergency of that kind, when public safety is imperiled, either upon application of the mayor of a city, sheriff of a county, or the commissioner of the Michigan state police or upon his or her own volition, the governor may proclaim a state of emergency and designate the area involved. After making the proclamation or declaration, the governor may promulgate reasonable orders, rules, and regulations as he or she considers necessary to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control. Those orders, rules, and regulations may include, but are not limited to, providing for the control of traffic, including public and private transportation, within the area or any section of the area; designation of specific zones within the area in which occupancy and use of buildings and ingress and egress of persons and vehicles may be prohibited or regulated; control of places of amusement and assembly and of persons on public streets and thoroughfares; establishment of a curfew; control of the sale, transportation, and use of alcoholic beverages and liquors; and control of the storage, use, and transportation of explosives or inflammable materials or liquids deemed to be dangerous to public safety.
(2) The orders, rules, and regulations promulgated under subsection (1) are effective from the date and in the manner prescribed in the orders, rules, and regulations and shall be made public as provided in the orders, rules, and regulations. The orders, rules, and regulations may be amended, modified, or rescinded, in the manner in which they were promulgated, from time to time by the governor during the pendency of the emergency, but shall cease to be in effect upon declaration by the governor that the emergency no longer exists.
(3) Subsection (1) does not authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of lawfully possessed firearms, ammunition, or other weapons.

But Act 390 of 1976, MCL 30.403 gives the 28 day timeline, subject to extension by the legislature. They've already extended it once, and they're arguing that without their approval, the states of emergency and disaster (which are two separate things) will expire.
Link, archive

Spoiler: More Legalese, Emphasis Added

(1) The governor is responsible for coping with dangers to this state or the people of this state presented by a disaster or emergency.
(2) The governor may issue executive orders, proclamations, and directives having the force and effect of law to implement this act. Except as provided in section 7(2), an executive order, proclamation, or directive may be amended or rescinded by the governor.
(3) The governor shall, by executive order or proclamation, declare a state of disaster if he or she finds a disaster has occurred or the threat of a disaster exists. The state of disaster shall continue until the governor finds that the threat or danger has passed, the disaster has been dealt with to the extent that disaster conditions no longer exist, or until the declared state of disaster has been in effect for 28 days. After 28 days, the governor shall issue an executive order or proclamation declaring the state of disaster terminated, unless a request by the governor for an extension of the state of disaster for a specific number of days is approved by resolution of both houses of the legislature. An executive order or proclamation issued pursuant to this subsection shall indicate the nature of the disaster, the area or areas threatened, the conditions causing the disaster, and the conditions permitting the termination of the state of disaster. An executive order or proclamation shall be disseminated promptly by means calculated to bring its contents to the attention of the general public and shall be promptly filed with the emergency management division of the department and the secretary of state, unless circumstances attendant upon the disaster prevent or impede its prompt filing.
(4) The governor shall, by executive order or proclamation, declare a state of emergency if he or she finds that an emergency has occurred or that the threat of an emergency exists. The state of emergency shall continue until the governor finds that the threat or danger has passed, the emergency has been dealt with to the extent that emergency conditions no longer exist, or until the declared state of emergency has been in effect for 28 days. After 28 days, the governor shall issue an executive order or proclamation declaring the state of emergency terminated, unless a request by the governor for an extension of the state of emergency for a specific number of days is approved by resolution of both houses of the legislature. An executive order or proclamation issued pursuant to this subsection shall indicate the nature of the emergency, the area or areas threatened, the conditions causing the emergency, and the conditions permitting the termination of the state of emergency. An executive order or proclamation shall be disseminated promptly by means calculated to bring its contents to the attention of the general public and shall be promptly filed with the emergency management division of the department and the secretary of state, unless circumstances attendant upon the emergency prevent or impede its prompt filing.

I don't know nearly enough about the law to weigh in on who's right or how the courts will or should rule, but that's what the papers have been saying.
I brought up that the Republican majority isn't veto-proof because the Senate passed a bill a few days ago to cut the governor's default emergency powers to 14 days instead of 28 going forward, and Governor Whitmer said she wouldn't sign it. Sorry for causing any confusion; I'll try to organize the header better tomorrow.

When two laws contradict, the law made later is deemed to have "impliedly repealed" the earlier one.