Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

The politics were great. The slow, subtle moments of intrigue, a phantom menace. Execution killed the prequels in there entirety, they are mostly bad movies.
The difference between the politics of the OT/PT and Disney is that the OT/PT talk about the politics in-universe. The end of the Imperial Senate, Lando's deal with the Empire, the trade blockade, and the Chancellor's executive power are all about politics that are a consequence of the Star Wars setting. There is are political messages that can relate to the modern day but they are a subtext to the story.

Disney's politics only reflect issues of the early 21st century, of which they only focus on class and sex. We have no context to the political state of the galaxy, so Canto Bight's enslavement of children or the cuntiness of Vice Admiral Gender Studies comes out of nowhere. If we had a line about the New Republic only having male soldiers, it gives context to the higher number of women in the Resistance and provide a general women are strong too subtext. Having a line about the New Republic being controlled by economic interests would give context to the corruption of Canto Bight.

There's no context to anything in Disney Star Wars because the writers assume that the Star Wars galaxy is a reflection of their interpretation of the modern world. They think that fascism is on the rise, that a patriarchy exists, and that a communist revolution is just on the horizon. It's political fanfiction with laser swords and spaceships.
 
The politics were great. The slow, subtle moments of intrigue, a phantom menace. Execution killed the prequels in there entirety, they are mostly bad movies.
I... guess? I mean yeah, my biggest complaint is in the execution.

Like the whole blockade thing. Why Naboo? Why does the galaxy even care?

Yes, I know "because Palpatine" but like our fine, upstanding @Imperial Citizen says, what's the reason "in universe." On the SW version of Kiwi Farms, what are the trolls discussing in the galactic politics thread? Like imagine if Google got pissed at the US government and decided to blockade... north dakota. Nobody would care, we'd be lucky if anybody even noticed. It doesn't even make sense what they would get out of it. They needed a line about naboo being a major food provider for the galaxy or something.
 
The old EU did have nuance to the Empire and I give Lucas a LOT of credit for letting it happen. Yes, the Emperor was a Sith Lord, was directly responsible for playing both sides of the war, and committed atrocities with the military, but it did provide order and a stable currency versus the Republic at the end of its life. (It was only teased in the old EU but hyperinflation ala 1930's Germany was happening to the Republic during the Clone Wars.)
More than that, the later story arcs of the EU proved that good, upstanding people could come from the Empire, and defend the galaxy in its time of need. People like Admiral Palleon and Jagged Fell were living proof that there were members of the Imperial Remnant who, regardless of their bitterness for the fall of their established order, could put their differences with the New Republic aside to join forces with them against threats like the Yuuzhan Vong that posed a hazard to all life as they knew it, in a good faith move that shocks and surprises everyone, even the most overtly suspicious and hysteria-prone elites of the New Republic.

That is infinitely more interesting than anything that Disney has done with the Empire post-ROTJ.
 
I... guess? I mean yeah, my biggest complaint is in the execution.

Like the whole blockade thing. Why Naboo? Why does the galaxy even care?

Yes, I know "because Palpatine" but like our fine, upstanding @Imperial Citizen says, what's the reason "in universe." On the SW version of Kiwi Farms, what are the trolls discussing in the galactic politics thread? Like imagine if Google got pissed at the US government and decided to blockade... north dakota. Nobody would care, we'd be lucky if anybody even noticed. It doesn't even make sense what they would get out of it. They needed a line about naboo being a major food provider for the galaxy or something.
According to this video by Geetsly, the Trade Federation was going to be heavily taxed through new legislation introduced by the Naboo Senator Sheev Palpatine. Incensed by the legislation, Nute Gunray's secretive ally Sidious, suggested retaliation by blockading the Senator's home planet of Naboo.

If this was in the movie, it would probably be considered an incredible political move in fiction. Palpatine engineers the entire blockade and defeat of the Trade Federation to show the weakness of the Republic in handling a crisis and promoting Separatist sentiments throughout the galaxy, since Naboo was able to defeat the Trade Federation on its own.

And in regards to the SW version of KF, we'd probably be on the Holonet, although I think that was supposed to be more of a TV/communications system. But we'd be banned by the Empire for calling Sly Moore a thot.
 
According to this video by Geetsly, the Trade Federation was going to be heavily taxed through new legislation introduced by the Naboo Senator Sheev Palpatine. Incensed by the legislation, Nute Gunray's secretive ally Sidious, suggested retaliation by blockading the Senator's home planet of Naboo.

If this was in the movie, it would probably be considered an incredible political move in fiction. Palpatine engineers the entire blockade and defeat of the Trade Federation to show the weakness of the Republic in handling a crisis and promoting Separatist sentiments throughout the galaxy, since Naboo was able to defeat the Trade Federation on its own.
Maybe Lucas gave the audience too much credit for connecting the dots at times. In retrospect its kind of clear Palpatine is force killing Padme and perhaps even using it to revitalize Anakin. Instead we're given a sort of perplexing "she's losing the will to live" line and laugh at it.
 
A guy on twitter by the name of @StevenWayneArt redesigned some of the characters from High Republic to look way more interesting and twitter's getting on his ass for "SeXuALiZaTiOn" because of course they are.


He said he took inspiration from Frank Frazetta and 80's and 90's Star Wars comics. Gotta say, I find these designs way more visually interesting than the canon ones. (Not to mention that he gave them skin tones that don't look sickly, which cannot be said for the original.) These characters look like ones you'd have fun watching, whether it be exploring a new planet, navigating Coruscant's seedy underworld, or fighting Sith.

The middle one is what the new She-Ra should have looked like.
 
I... guess? I mean yeah, my biggest complaint is in the execution.

Like the whole blockade thing. Why Naboo? Why does the galaxy even care?

Yes, I know "because Palpatine" but like our fine, upstanding @Imperial Citizen says, what's the reason "in universe." On the SW version of Kiwi Farms, what are the trolls discussing in the galactic politics thread? Like imagine if Google got pissed at the US government and decided to blockade... north dakota. Nobody would care, we'd be lucky if anybody even noticed. It doesn't even make sense what they would get out of it. They needed a line about naboo being a major food provider for the galaxy or something.
If a corporation started blockading North Dakota (which isn't possible) with actual military force, the US military would be on that shit like nobody's business. It doesn't matter if it's a small state or not.
 
Someone spliced these scenes together to show how Filoni is trying to connect his fanfiction into the film.
One of my criticisms of Filoni's Clone Wars is that the foreshadowing always seems forced (no pun intended) and heavy-handed. I'd offer the Mortis Arc as one such example. Fans that have followed the franchise to that point know Anakin falls to the dark side. Newer fans that hadn't yet seen the OT or PT might not know, but foreshadowing works best when it's more subtle -- such as the scene in Gennedy's Clone Wars where Anakin goes on what I believe was some sort of meditation journey or vision quest and the image of Vader eventually forms and takes over the background, confusing him if I recall the scene correctly.

Again with the childish bullshit. Ghosts are better left as mystical not-sure-if-real entities, people's legacies and memories of them.
Force Ghosts are one of those things that are best used as sparingly as possible. Obi Wan's appearances as one in the Ot were infrequent and timely. if he was used more in that capacity, it would raise the question, "Why kill him off if he's going to train and advise Luke from beyond the grave?" Some people don't get the idea that too much of a good idea can and does turn bad.

Lando was never allied with the rebels, he was just a buddy of Han's and was betraying the rebels from the start.
Not only that, Vader had caught up to Lando before Han and company could reach Bespin World and Cloud City. This allowed Vader to threaten Lando into submissive cooperation. It's not like Lando could have asked Vader, "Can't we discuss this over a nice cold Colt-45, my Lord?"

Like the whole blockade thing. Why Naboo? Why does the galaxy even care?
@Imperial Citizen already offered an answer, but let me try to build on it with modern day parlance, my flexible friend (even if it leaves me wanting to bathe in Lysol after typing it...)

Palpatine, under his Darth Sidious identity, arranges for the Trade Federation to protest the taxation by blockading Naboo so he -- as himself -- can cry "muh oppression!" to the senate and get the ball rolling on a political standoff and skirmish that eventually involves the Jedi and gives him reason to reveal the reemergence of the Sith. To further his oppression narrative and help gain senators' sympathies, he has Queen Amidiala address the senate about how the blockade is hurting her planet and citizens.​
Meanwhile, he makes sure the Senate remains bogged down in political bickering long enough for him to encourage Queen Amidala to call for a vote of no confidence and have the Chancellor removed for not acting swiftly and decisively enough. Once the battle of Naboo is over and everything seems to be back to normal, Palpatine boasts that he will likely be elected the next Chancellor because of other senators' sympathies for Naboo's plights, thus allowing him to continue executing his evil master plan while hiding it behind a facade that fools everyone else while he unknowingly manipulates them into his bidding.​

Palpatine's cunning and sneakiness make him a rather kickass villain. Having Ian McDiarmid portray him also helps. He always acted as if he relished the role of Palpatine/Sidious. It's also why the ST's supposed villains of Snoke and Kylo Ren fall flat. There's absolutely no buildup with their characters and both are too easy to distract/defeat. Both act more like unsuccessful tryhard edgelords than fearsome villains that provide a meaningful challenge for the heroes to overcome.
 
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If a corporation started blockading North Dakota (which isn't possible) with actual military force, the US military would be on that shit like nobody's business. It doesn't matter if it's a small state or not.
Except in this scenario, the US military would not exist. Remember that red Tantive 4-esque ship that got blown up at the beginning of the Phantom Menace? That is what the Galactic Republic's armed forces looked like until the Clones Army was created.
 
Except in this scenario, the US military would not exist. Remember that red Tantive 4-esque ship that got blown up at the beginning of the Phantom Menace? That is what the Galactic Republic's armed forces looked like until the Clones Army was created.
In Legends, they definitely had better ships than the Consular cruiser, even if they were outdated. It's more like if Google blockaded North Dakota but the president wasn't allowed to deploy troops for a limited time like he is now, and Congress had to have these huge sessions deciding whether to do anything about it or not. That's why the Republic was so hated.
 
>George Lucas was inspired by the Foundation trilogy.
>In Foundation and Empire there is a literal clown character called Magnifico who secretly masterminds the conquest of the Foundation.
>Jar Jar is presented as a clown and none of the jedi take him seriously but he has access to the senate.

Darth Jar Jar was meant to be canon. How did I not notice this before???

DarthJarJarIsReal.jpg
 
>George Lucas was inspired by the Foundation trilogy.
>In Foundation and Empire there is a literal clown character called Magnifico who secretly masterminds the conquest of the Foundation.
>Jar Jar is presented as a clown and none of the jedi take him seriously but he has access to the senate.

Darth Jar Jar was meant to be canon. How did I not notice this before???

View attachment 1268332
According to nuWars canon, Jar Jar is now a homeless street performer in Theed, being ostracized by both the Gungans and the Naboo Government. You might be on to something.
 
According to this video by Geetsly, the Trade Federation was going to be heavily taxed through new legislation introduced by the Naboo Senator Sheev Palpatine. Incensed by the legislation, Nute Gunray's secretive ally Sidious, suggested retaliation by blockading the Senator's home planet of Naboo.

If this was in the movie, it would probably be considered an incredible political move in fiction. Palpatine engineers the entire blockade and defeat of the Trade Federation to show the weakness of the Republic in handling a crisis and promoting Separatist sentiments throughout the galaxy, since Naboo was able to defeat the Trade Federation on its own.

(replying to @Kiwi Lime Pie in this too)

It would have been great to have had that in the movie. Part of the problem with having politics in a short time frame story though is the tangle of questions it receives. Like if liberating naboo got bogged down in committee, why didn't Palpatine's new taxes--

Wait, answered my own question.

But seriously, why not say... have this as a discussion between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon at the start? Remember when they're in the waiting room? (can you even recite the dialog?) What if the dialog was...

OWK: I've got a bad feeling about this.
QGJ: This is an awfully lot of trouble for a simple trade dispute.
OWK: All this over senator Palpatine's tax proposal?
QGJ: [thing it would pay for - i would actually brainstorm this with like, all of you here]
OWK: Do you agree with him, master? Should [program] be instituted?
QGJ: Issues come and go, my young padawan. Tomorrow it will be something else. It is not for the Jedi to concern ourselves with such things but focus on the eternal. Concentrate on the Living Force, and calm yourself.

etc

Of course if it was up to me, the phantom menace would be controlling space pirates - because who doesn't love space pirates?? (they would cause problems around the galaxy, leading to the institution of the republic military, etc etc)

And in regards to the SW version of KF, we'd probably be on the Holonet, although I think that was supposed to be more of a TV/communications system. But we'd be banned by the Empire for calling Sly Moore a thot.

Well she totally is. I've see twi'leks less whore-y than her.

Maybe Lucas gave the audience too much credit for connecting the dots at times. In retrospect its kind of clear Palpatine is force killing Padme and perhaps even using it to revitalize Anakin. Instead we're given a sort of perplexing "she's losing the will to live" line and laugh at it.

:story:

No.

As I've said before, Lucas shows signs of a bit of autism or some kind of disorder and he does not think as you are assuming there. Want proof?

Episode 1) Amidala is a queen. Why? Because Leia is a space princess - so how can she be a princess if her mom was never a queen? Therefore Padme has to be the queen.

Of course Anakin can't be older than 8-10 to leave his mom and start Jedi training. And it would be REALLY weird to have Amidala be in her 30s-40s when she and Anakin finally hook up. So she's a young queen! She's only like, 14. How did she get to become queen then? Uh... her planet holds elections!

See? Extremely convoluted, silly answer to a question that has a very simple solution: Just make Leia's adoptive parents royalty. A writer that can't "see" that kind of solution staring them in the face is one that isn't going to be subtle about any solution that you think up.

If a corporation started blockading North Dakota (which isn't possible) with actual military force, the US military would be on that shit like nobody's business. It doesn't matter if it's a small state or not.

If you can't blockade North Dakota - then what sense does it make to blockade a planet? (remember - space is vast)

It would probably make more sense if the Trade Federation was like UPS and literally the only source of distribution in the galaxy. Then it was slightly less of a blockade and more of a "we're not delivering." Except for the ship escape they do later in the movie - that makes it quite literal.

Plus like someone else pointed out, the set up is that the government doesn't have a military - hence the clone army in the next movie.

ne of my criticisms of Filoni's Clone Wars is that the foreshadowing always seems forced (no pun intended) and heavy-handed. I'd offer the Mortis Arc as one such example. Fans that have followed the franchise to that point know Anakin falls to the dark side. Newer fans that hadn't yet seen the OT or PT might not know, but foreshadowing works best when it's more subtle -- such as the scene in Gennedy's Clone Wars where Anakin goes on what I believe was some sort of meditation journey or vision quest and the image of Vader eventually forms and takes over the background, confusing him if I recall the scene correctly.

Just because I love this scene.
 
One interesting thing the EU/Legends did well is utilizing novelizations to enhance the films, rather than being some supposed convoluted uber narrative. This was especially true for the prequel era work.

Labyrinth of Evil and the RotS novelisation are both outstanding, and the Sith novel is one of the best Star Wars books written. Darth Plageuis enriches the experience of the whole of the prequels, in particular TPM, and answers a lot of the dumb questions from the films in a smart way. It even loosely ties to the Bane trilogy.

Clone Wars multimedia project was great, I'd take it (including GenndyWars) over "TCW furry AdokaOp wolfbait" , any day.
 
Good or not we know Ku Klux Kennedy will screw over directors and show runners regardless of gender if they don't align with her agenda.

In other news Sam Witwer is starting to really piss me off, he thinks working with Filoni gives him a higher standing with Lucasfilm.

Tbf wasnt he getting death threads and shit recently
 
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The key problem with the Phantom Menace is that it requires some great writing to pull off, but even if it had great writing, it wouldn't feel like much of a Star Wars movie.
OWK: I've got a bad feeling about this.
QGJ: This is an awfully lot of trouble for a simple trade dispute.
OWK: All this over senator Palpatine's tax proposal?
QGJ: [thing it would pay for - i would actually brainstorm this with like, all of you here]
OWK: Do you agree with him, master? Should [program] be instituted?
QGJ: Issues come and go, my young padawan. Tomorrow it will be something else. It is not for the Jedi to concern ourselves with such things but focus on the eternal. Concentrate on the Living Force, and calm yourself.
See, this is what I mean. I can read this perfectly in the respective voices, but you need a damn good reason to have Obi-Wan talking about tax proposals in a Star Wars movie. Maybe a spinoff or a TV show, I'll grant you, and definitely in a novel, but not for a movie that is supposed to be Star Wars's triumphant return to the big screen after 16 years and meant to start a prequel trilogy.

The core problem with the Phantom Menace (which has the majority of the political content in the PT, and also the driest political content) is that it has very minimal relation to the rest of the Prequel Trilogy, whose goal is to show us the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. It would be like if instead of A New Hope we get a movie about Luke's struggle to go to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters. That could be a cool movie, he has a run in with the Tusken Raiders, Ben Kenobi saves his ass (and Uncle Owen chews him out for doing something so dangerous), and he and Biggs have to bullseye some womprats in their T-16 to bribe some random soldiers for the Empire. Could be a great movie and sounds a hell of a lot more entertaining than TPM. But it doesn't work as part of a trilogy whose goal is to show Luke destroying an evil empire since it's a pointless prequel.
 
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