Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[EmuWarsVeteran]

Ladies and gentlemen. I just got an explanation for the pippettes. Remember how I told you the guy in charge was a blood doctor (hematologo in spanish. No clue how you call that in english)?

Well that was only half true. The blood doctor is in charge on paper, and is the bureaucrat behind this. But had not even gone to the hospital these days. The guy we talked to and who is leading this shit boots on the ground, and the guy having so luch trouble... Is a docor in preemptive medicine.

I don't know how other countries handle that. But here in spain, preemptive medicine doctors are a subtype of LEGAL DOCTORS specialized in risk assessment and microbe control. That is to say their actual degree is in LAW and then at the PHD level they get it in laboral risks, which has some epidemiology and basic biology, but is mostly about, well, prevention and risk assessment.

We got a fucking LAWYER doing the tests and people wonder why he's having so much trouble! I'm laughing my ass off at these news. Holy fuck. This explains so much!

EDIT:

That's not really true. By far the vast majority of Sweden's population lives in Stockholm, Malmö and Göteborg, and in a few smaller, but relatively densely populated towns, with only about 15% of the population inhabiting the rest of the country, and most of those in the south. Sweden is only semi-rural if you average its whole population across its entire land area, but most of that land area is quite literally empty - just forest, and wolves, and the occasional Lap fucking a reindeer. The difference of infection rates is cultural, though, I'll grant you that. The majority of infected in Sweden are cultural enrichers, who don't share the natives disdain for proximity with others and don't know how to wash their hands. Given the current knowledge of how early the chinese disease was spreading in Europe (early as December in France, November in Sweden, anecdotally similar dates in Italy, UK and Germany), I'm now firmly of the opinion that the lockdowns were entirely pointless. The disease was already widespread before christmas, the vast majority of carriers are asymptomatic, and what we're seeing now is the final play-out of it as it burns out of the population, just like SARS and MERS before. The lockdowns didn't flatten shit.

I'd still say that when I look at the difference between asturias and Galicia (and Scotland), which are similar to sweeden. They are doing much better than sweeden. And stockholm is nowhere near as dense as madrid or barcelona. So I'd expect a sweeden that did lock down to some degree to look more like asturias, galicia, finland, denmark, scotland etc. Meanwhile it's actually looking like spain as a whole, and iraly as a whole, which is much, much, much worse than that.

I still say we did absolutely overdo the lockdowns, specially in galicia and asturias. They're getting an economic hit much harder than they should. But you know. The happy medium should've been applied in both sides.

 

[Aqua Panda]

Went out to the mailbox today, got the physical 1200 stimulus check. I'm still utterly amazed it happened. Put it straight into savings. I'm in a good spot compared to most (can telework, have a full year emergency fund, and fully own and paid off my house) but I understand how much of a big deal it is for many.

I think I'm going to put the physical stub in a scrapbook somewhere. Small piece of history.

I'm curious, has there been any more word on a second round of them?

 

[Dog-O-Tron 5000v5.0]

Part of the problem with the screeching #extendthelockdown crowd is for all the whining about being cooped up, I think a lot of people have gotten way too comfortable with the idea of ordering food, watching Netflix, and collecting Trumpbux. They want to ride this train as long as possible, and some will drop out of the workforce entirely. Betting that if you check polling, support in the US for UBI will have gone up 10% at least compared to a year ago.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

That's by comparing calculated numbers after the swine flu pandemic with very incomplete numbers from what is possibly the middle of the pandemic. The supposed Wuflu death toll in the US has already surpassed the calculated swine flu pandemic death toll, so most likely it will end up quite a bit higher.

According to some research the amount of people who have it but not documented is around 10-20% more. California alone is 14.3%, not that large of an increase, reason why it's never mentioned is because death rate percentage would drop. Then you have research showing that quarantining countries didn't help out as much as they thought it would have such as I think Taiwan who found the decease was only 44% in their country alone.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

I still say we did absolutely overdo the lockdowns, specially in galicia and asturias. They're getting an economic hit much harder than they should. But you know. The happy medium should've been applied in both sides.

It's a difficult needle to thread, that's for sure.

We locked down early and our hospitals never even got close to capacity. We had a surge of nursing home patients and that was about it. The problem is the two week lag time on cases. If we open up and there's a sharp uptick of COVID-19 cases in the emergency department then it's probably too late.

 

[Powder Puff Gorl]

Bamboo-Flu is still TEARING our nursing homes up, about 90% of the fatalities are all in nursing homes. Our nursing homes have been shit for ever in a day, not too much of a secret, but this is bringing more attention on how fucking terrible the nursing homes are to the vast majority.

This is a huge problem in the US too and needs to be addressed but probably won't be. Assisted living and nursing homes are going to keep filling up as time marches on because most families can't or won't take care of their elderly and because, due to medical advancements, people are living longer. Sure there are 90 year old dynamos out there but they're rare; most elderly have cognitive and physical issues that require extra care. But yeah, let's dump them in a facility because lol they're old and who cares and hopefully they'll kick the bucket soon. See Cuomo, Andrew.

If nursing homes aren't improved and you live to be a ripe old age, you'll end up in the same crappy boat a lot of our elders are in now. (This is a general "you", not a specific one).

Found out today that my own mother has actually diagnosed herself with asthma in her mid-sixties so she can go out and scream and attack and try to shame people for "trying to murder her" and "wanting her dead" because they want to get back to work and not lose their job, house, business, whatever.

Her name wouldn't happen to be Karen, would it?

I shouldn't be surprised that the governor decided to wait until the last minute to extend the lockdown allegedly for 'at least a month', but with phrasing vague enough that they could technically just extend it forever...and I suppose I'm not, but I'm still appalled. And locals I've spoken to about the matter (or just overheard) are pretty enraged about it. I don't know how much damage this will do to the economy and social fabric of the country, but I suspect we'll see a record number of governors voted out next cycle.

Oh how I wish, but I'm not holding out much . The same people who vote these folks in are the ones who aren't being affected by lockdowns, i.e. liberal rich and tugboat poor. The only way to defeat that is to mobilize people outside the big city voting blocks and get them voting, and I don't see that happening either. I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[coolkille]

Interesting article about the difference in fatalities in Norway vs. Sweden here.

''– Det er mulig at Norge kunne hatt et høyere antall registrerte dødsfall om vi regnet som i Sverige, sa Trine Hessevik Paulsen, lege i Folkehelseinstituttet, til Svenska Dagbladet.''

Translated:
"- It is possible that Norway could have had a higher number of registered deaths if we counted as in Sweden," Trine Hessevik Paulsen, a doctor at the Institute of Public Health, told Svenska Dagbladet.''

According to the article, if you die of, for example, a heart attack in Norway but have also tested positive for COVID-19, you don't necessarily get reported as having died of COVID-19.
In Sweden, everybody who has tested positive for the virus and subsequently dies, is reported as having died due to COVID-19. It's checked against the public directory.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

According to the article, if you die of, for example, a heart attack in Norway but have also tested positive for COVID-19, you don't necessarily get reported as having died of COVID-19.
In Sweden, everybody who has tested positive for the virus and subsequently dies, is reported as having died due to COVID-19. It's checked against the public directory.

This gets into a whole weird thing.

Grandma gets COVID-19. Grandma has syncope from hypoxemia, bleeds out on the ground after cracking her skull open. Grandma also has orthostatic hypotension in her medical history. Is that a COVID-19 related death or not?

 

[FatalTater]

I'm listening to New York Mayor DeBlasio talk on ABC and I find myself wanting to ask for his handlers to take him away so actual adults can make plans. The stuff he's saying just sounds like a middle school kid came up with it for a school project.

 

[coolkille]

This gets into a whole weird thing.

Grandma gets COVID-19. Grandma has syncope from hypoxemia, bleeds out on the ground after cracking her skull open. Grandma also has orthostatic hypotension in her medical history. Is that a COVID-19 related death or not?

Good question, but I think the Norwegian article in my previous post sums the current information up. I'm not a M.D, so I wouldn't know if the woman you just mentioned ''should'' have been deemed to having died of complications due to COVID-19 or not. I'd say not, but then again did the infection exacerbate her conditions, causing the fatality indirectly?

But according to the article, in Sweden she would've had a COVID-19 related death. In Norway, it's up to the doctor, since he/she is the one that calls it in.

EDIT: I am personally not terribly up to date with the connection between COVID-19, hypoxemia and acute hypoxia, but from what I gather it does seem to be a somewhat confirmed phenomenon. So I would at least hope that Norwegian doctors rule those that show signs of having died due to complications of acute hypoxia to having died of COVID-19 related causes.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Is this legit, or just our latest freaked-out news article?

The article didn't tell much other than that they don't fucking know if its COVID-related or not, just that it "might be".

The UK article that got posted awhile back outright said that not all the kids tested postive for COVID; so either A) its not related or B) the tests are shit and tell us nothing

Good question, but I think the Norwegian article in my previous post sums the current information up. I'm not a M.D, so I wouldn't know if the woman you just mentioned ''should'' have been deemed to having died of complications due to COVID-19 or not. I'd say not, but then again did the infection exacerbate her conditions, causing the fatality indirectly?

But according to the article, in Sweden she would've had a COVID-19 related death. In Norway, it's up to the doctor, since he/she is the one that calls it in.

In the US it would have been counted as COVID-19 hands down.

Now in that situation its justifiable as COVID-related IMO; but a lot of the outrage of CDC guidelines of what hospitals are counting as "COVID related" are shit like heart disease (which kills over 400,000 per year easily), the flu, non-COVID pneumonia, etc.
Which is why there are memes of fake headlines flying around of "Man who jumped out of airplane dies of COVID!" or "Woman shot 5 times and ran over with bulldozer confirmed to have died from COVID-19!"

 

[named]

Now in that situation its justifiable as COVID-related IMO; but a lot of the outrage of CDC guidelines of what hospitals are counting as "COVID related" are shit like heart disease (which kills over 400,000 per year easily), the flu, non-COVID pneumonia, etc.

Official CDC statistics break at least flu/pneumonia into separate categories. Reporting based on those statistics may be questionable, though.

 

[Never Scored]

So correct me if I'm wrong:
-40 year old guy is 350 pounds and has type two diabetes and a family history of heart problems
-Guy gets coof
-Stress on body from coof causes guy's heart to finally explode
-Guy dies of heart attack that was likely going to happen sometime in the next couple years anyway, but because he had coof in his system, he's recorded as dying from coof
-Media reports that coof causes heart attacks in people in their 40s and no one know why
-Someone comes on the Farms and posts the article that says coof causes heart attacks in people in their 40s and tells us we're all retarded and gay for thinking we're not going to die

How close am I?

 

[coolkille]

In the US it would have been counted as COVID-19 hands down.

Now in that situation its justifiable as COVID-related IMO; but a lot of the outrage of CDC guidelines of what hospitals are counting as "COVID related" are shit like heart disease (which kills over 400,000 per year easily), the flu, non-COVID pneumonia, etc.
Which is why there are memes of fake headlines flying around of "Man who jumped out of airplane dies of COVID!" or "Woman shot 5 times and ran over with bulldozer confirmed to have died from COVID-19!"

I hope it's reported as COVID-19 related in Norway as well. Would be strange if a dead patient with acute hypoxia and confirmed COVID-19 wouldn't be.
But I have no reason to mistrust Norway or their authorities, so chances are that it is indeed reported as a COVID-19 related death.

I just think that it's curious that the Norwegian FHI admits that their death statistics could've been higher if they would have checked each case against the directory of deceased and the directory of people with confirmed COVID-19, and not just phoning it in. If they admit that flaw, I wonder why they aren't trying to remedy it.

But hey, Norways curves and statistics are looking prettay, prettay, prettay good at the moment, so good job. The very south of Sweden, where I live hasn't been hit too hard yet. Apparently it's been spared even more than Denmark, but the jury is still out here and in the rest of Sweden. I can't say that I'm too convinced of the present strategy, but time will tell I guess. There are several things that I wished would've been done and cracked down upon, but I think I've already mentioned those in another post in this thread.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

So correct me if I'm wrong:
-40 year old guy is 350 pounds and has type two diabetes and a family history of heart problems
-Guy gets coof
-Stress on body from coof causes guy's heart to finally explode
-Guy dies of heart attack that was likely going to happen sometime in the next couple years anyway, but because he had coof in his system, he's recorded as dying from coof
-Media reports that coof causes heart attacks in people in their 40s and no one know why
-Someone comes on the Farms and posts the article that says coof causes heart attacks in people in their 40s and tells us we're all exceptional and gay for thinking we're not going to die

How close am I?

You forgot the part where they call us all science-deniers and accuse us of "thinking [we] know more than epidemiologists!" for dissecting an article by exceptional journofag fear-mongers.

 

[Dog-O-Tron 5000v5.0]

Governor Cuomo literally said nothing new today. He's had some lite press conferences but there was always at least one thing he said, one new policy or point, a reason for the conference. Today nothing. Like Trump, he needs to start scaling back. I hope he doesn't waste our time with pressers on Sat and Sun.

 

[Traummaschine]

According to some research the amount of people who have it but not documented is around 10-20% more. California alone is 14.3%, not that large of an increase, reason why it's never mentioned is because death rate percentage would drop. Then you have research showing that quarantining countries didn't help out as much as they thought it would have such as I think Taiwan who found the decease was only 44% in their country alone.

Looking at the death rate you posted you have used a much higher estimate than 20% more undocumented cases. But yes, there are obviously a lot of undocumented cases, and it's likely much more than 20% worldwide. That was also my point. You claimed that swine flu had "infected more people", but the current corona numbers are incomplete in all ways and it would be silly to compare that to calculations made after a year of swine flu spreading through the world. The best thing we have so far is the current number of deaths in western countries, and they have already surpassed the 2009/2010 swine flu deaths in those countries, so it also makes little sense to proclaim swine flu as a bigger killer than the Wuflu.

That's not really true. By far the vast majority of Sweden's population lives in Stockholm, Malmö and Göteborg, and in a few smaller, but relatively densely populated towns, with only about 15% of the population inhabiting the rest of the country, and most of those in the south. Sweden is only semi-rural if you average its whole population across its entire land area, but most of that land area is quite literally empty - just forest, and wolves, and the occasional Lap fucking a reindeer.

The difference of infection rates is cultural, though, I'll grant you that. The majority of infected in Sweden are cultural enrichers, who don't share the natives disdain for proximity with others and don't know how to wash their hands.

Given the current knowledge of how early the chinese disease was spreading in Europe (early as December in France, November in Sweden, anecdotally similar dates in Italy, UK and Germany), I'm now firmly of the opinion that the lockdowns were entirely pointless. The disease was already widespread before christmas, the vast majority of carriers are asymptomatic, and what we're seeing now is the final play-out of it as it burns out of the population, just like SARS and MERS before.

The lockdowns didn't flatten shit.

It's a bit telling that you write this to dismiss Denmark's numbers:

(Denmark is Denmark. I just put that in there so the Danes could continue to feel smug about their northern neighbour.)

In reality are Denmark and Norway (and possibly Finland) the best comparisons to Sweden in all ways, and those countries show a significant less spread with a stricter lockdown. In the same way Norway, Denmark and Finland can look at Sweden and try to determine if it was worth it to lock down, but I would be more careful with so directly comparing Sweden's numbers to countries like France, Spain and Italy.

Also note that it spreading in Sweden since november is speculation at this point. Widespread before christmas even more so (although the definition of that is quite relative).

 

[MCLOS Horthy]

You forgot the part where they call us all science-deniers and accuse us of "thinking [we] know more than epidemiologists!" for dissecting an article by exceptional journofag fear-mongers.

Don't you know how to science? The principle of good science is to never ever collect more evidence, never analyze anything, and always believe the first thing you see, especially if it came from some kind of authority figure.

 

[Freya]

Every time I see a picture of a health-care worker crossing their arms and staring down the protestors, i want to shove my head in an oven

 

[teriyakiburns]

It's a bit telling that you write this to dismiss Denmark's numbers:

Not remotely. I didn't dismiss Denmark's numbers, I was making a joke about the scandies and their never-ending rivalry. If if wanted to dismiss them, I wouldn't have put them in to start with.

The fact remains that Sweden, doing essentially nothing, has a comparable curve to nearly every country that reports deaths in a similar way to them.

Norway, and I suspect Denmark also, doesn't report their deaths the same way as Sweden, so the comparison isn't as straight forward as you might seem to think.