[Dec 15 2019] Foreclosure Saga - http://civilinquiry.jud.ct.gov/CaseDetail/PublicCaseDetail.aspx?DocketNo=FBTCV196091825S

[AnOminous]

This isn't anything Phil specific, there just aren't enough court staff to handle this kind of increased volume and there's less work in resuming an ongoing sale. Right now I'd say there's a decent chance we don't even get a sale until 2021.

There wasn't even a foreclosure sale scheduled yet, and they wouldn't have had to evict him since he isn't there anyway. That said when the case moves forward again it will be behind a massive backlog.

 

[actually]

There wasn't even a foreclosure sale scheduled yet, and they wouldn't have had to evict him since he isn't there anyway. That said when the case moves forward again it will be behind a massive backlog.

I think this has been discussed, but I don't remember what consensus was. We're operating on the assumption that MidFirst is going to try and get a deficiency judgment on the CT condo, which would probably be unsecured unless they file a lien.

Could MidFirst slow-walk the foreclosure and deficiency judgment until the bankruptcy is decided on and then try to collect, or do they need to try and get the sale and judgment completed before that to have a shot at money?

 

[AnOminous]

I think this has been discussed, but I don't remember what consensus was. We're operating on the assumption that MidFirst is going to try and get a deficiency judgment on the CT condo, which would probably be unsecured unless they file a lien.

Could MidFirst slow-walk the foreclosure and deficiency judgment until the bankruptcy is decided on and then try to collect, or do they need to try and get the sale and judgment completed before that to have a shot at money?

They probably wouldn't have moved to lift the stay if they wanted to wait, although circumstances might change. I'm also still not sure they can get the deficiency judgment, but an unsecured debt could be discharged in bankruptcy, so they might have some reason to wait.

Nick also talked about this a bit on the stream last night and thinks they'd actually be in a worse place as a junior lienholder than just an unsecured judgment creditor. I.e. they could lose out if the WAkondo gets foreclosed on.

I assume MidFirst knows what they're doing in this and will do whatever is in their best interests. I'm not entirely sure what that is, but whatever it is, it will apparently be delayed, surprising absolutely nobody.

 

[DiabeticSP]

They probably wouldn't have moved to lift the stay if they wanted to wait, although circumstances might change. I'm also still not sure they can get the deficiency judgment, but an unsecured debt could be discharged in bankruptcy, so they might have some reason to wait.

Nick also talked about this a bit on the stream last night and thinks they'd actually be in a worse place as a junior lienholder than just an unsecured judgment creditor. I.e. they could lose out if the WAkondo gets foreclosed on.

I assume MidFirst knows what they're doing in this and will do whatever is in their best interests. I'm not entirely sure what that is, but whatever it is, it will apparently be delayed, surprising absolutely nobody.

I don't think the WAkondo gets foreclosed on but if Midfirst thing he's gonna chapter 7 the house, they may be waiting to see how the bankruptcy pans out.

Why go through all the trouble of rushing for a lien if Nancy nabs the condo, essentially.

 

[Schrödinger's Kat]

I'd be tempted to stop paying the HOA since the State's order is preventing the sale.

This would be a bad idea, so hopefully Phil does it. If Phil stops paying his HOA, that becomes new debt (post bankruptcy) that he can be sued for and won't be discharged no matter what happens with his bankruptcy. It doesn't matter that the home is in foreclosure, as long as he is on the title, he is obligated to pay the HOA.

This delay could cost him tens of thousands of dollars and for once, isn't his fault.

This is why its a bad idea to file for bankruptcy before the home is foreclosed on if you are planning to give it up. He could have waited to file until after MidFirst had taken the CT condo and he wouldn't have been in this situation. So yes, it is still his fault.

 

[AnOminous]

This is why its a bad idea to file for bankruptcy before the home is foreclosed on if you are planning to give it up.

It looks like it was a bad idea in this case, but not always. Without the HOA fees thing, bankruptcy would presumptively discharge any non-secured part of the debt, i.e. preempt the deficiency, or at least put it on the same footing as other debt. Phil would have been better off outright surrendering the property in return for a forgiveness on the deficiency, which he might have gotten in mediation. He decided to just blow that off like a gigantic moron, though.

 

[harbinger]

This delay could cost him tens of thousands of dollars and for once, isn't his fault.

There’s a number of things Philip could have done in the last several years to prevent himself being in the situation he’s in now. So yes, it’s definitely his fault.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

With the delay in selling the house, could Phil set aside the money he would have spent on the HOA and hire an agent to fast track the sale or is it totally in the bank’s control now? Is he just stuck paying those fees until the bank gets around to doing things? Remind me never to buy a condo.

 

[UncleTusky]

With the delay in selling the house, could Phil set aside the money he would have spent on the HOA and hire an agent to fast track the sale or is it totally in the bank’s control now? Is he just stuck paying those fees until the bank gets around to doing things? Remind me never to buy a condo.

It's out of his control, but not because of the foreclosure-he has the right to sell it until the case concludes and MidFirst takes possession. The thing that keeps it in the bank's control is the deficiency ($100k mortgage on a $60k property). MidFirst gets veto authority over any short sale because they'd be the ones losing money, and the deficiency is so large relative to the property value that I can't see them approving it without Phil putting up the difference in cash.

 

[UncleTusky]

So Pigroach got his bankruptcy discharge because God hates us all.

@AnOminous @SoapQueen1 what does the bankruptcy discharge mean for the foreclosure case? He intended to surrender the Connectikhando in bankruptcy so is there an expedited process now? And do we have any idea what happens to the deficiency on the mortgage when MidFirst finally sells it?

(It's not a double post when the last one was like a week ago)

 

[Adamska]

So Pigroach got his bankruptcy discharge because God hates us all.

@AnOminous @SoapQueen1 what does the bankruptcy discharge mean for the foreclosure case? He intended to surrender the Connectikhando in bankruptcy so is there an expedited process now? And do we have any idea what happens to the deficiency on the mortgage when MidFirst finally sells it?

(It's not a double post when the last one was like a week ago)

This is pretty retarded given that I can't see how he could get discharged given they didn't even do the follow up and at least two creditors were not in the mood to let him go last I checked. Also retarded given that he could unfuck his debt by just not fucking loaning and taking out a chunk each month to not paypig on WWE Champions.

 

[UncleTusky]

This is interesting, Phil's mother might have co-signed on the CT Khando mortgage:

Linda A Burnell Contact Information | Whitepages

archived 6 May 2020 13:58:42 UTC

archive.vn

Elite Field Autists-is there a way to tell whether the mortgage itself is in both their names or if she's associated because of something less interesting (like having the utilities in her name)? If it helps narrow things down David is not associated with the property

https://archive.vn/l40Xb

Sorry for the double post-for real this time.

 

[Adamska]

This is interesting, Phil's mother might have co-signed on the CT Khando mortgage:

Linda A Burnell Contact Information | Whitepages

archived 6 May 2020 13:58:42 UTC

archive.vn

Elite Field Autists-is there a way to tell whether the mortgage itself is in both their names or if she's associated because of something less interesting (like having the utilities in her name)? If it helps narrow things down David is not associated with the property

https://archive.vn/l40Xb

Sorry for the double post-for real this time.

You thinking Pig's mom bailed her retarded son out when it came to light? Because that would fit for an overly enabling parent running interference for her mentally challenged son she babied too much.

 

[King Daddy Telomerase]

Take whitepages info with a giant grain of salt. They're often extremely incorrect.

 

[actually]

Take whitepages info with a giant grain of salt. They're often extremely incorrect.

Looking at the mortgage filed in the bankruptcy case by MidFirst, I see nothing about a co-signor or guarantor in there, so it's looking unlikely that either parent was involved there.

 

[AnOminous]

So Pigroach got his bankruptcy discharge because God hates us all.

@AnOminous @SoapQueen1 what does the bankruptcy discharge mean for the foreclosure case? He intended to surrender the Connectikhando in bankruptcy so is there an expedited process now? And do we have any idea what happens to the deficiency on the mortgage when MidFirst finally sells it?

(It's not a double post when the last one was like a week ago)

I give up, somehow pigroach wins. The law doesn't matter.

 

[Prince Lotor]

I'm really wondering how the CT condo thing plays out now, because it's not like he can both have the mortgage debt discharged AND have possession of the condo. That the CT condo was abandoned means he has possession and the foreclosure proceeds, but can they preemptively discharge a deficiency judgment?

I guess the real question is: at what point in foreclosure precedings does the primary lien that is secured debt (a.k.a the mortgage), and isn't dischargable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, become unsecured mortgage debt that is dischargable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy?
His foreclosure precedings hadn't reached the point where the court had granted a 'judgement to foreclose'. After the court then has the property appraised and then the court also has to approve the final sale of the property.
The mediation period had ended with still no participation from Phil, yet MidFirst did not file for a 'default judgement'.
Did and/or does MidFirst still have a mortgage lien on Phil's CT property at this point of the precedings, or does the mortgage lien become mortgage debt the second foreclosure precedings are filed?
Phil has been paying HOA fees on his CT property this entire time, so I don't know what to think.
Did he lie on his bankruptcy forms and claim the CT property as mortgage debt when it is still a primary mortgage lien on the CT property?
From what I'm looking at the primary mortgage lien on a property does not change to mortgage debt until after the 'judgement to foreclose' has been granted. Can anyone else weigh-in on this?

Foreclosure Timeline

Day 1: You fail to pay the mortgage payment by the due date, the first of the month. Day 16-30: Late charges are assessed on the payment. The mortgage servicer attempts to make contact with you to find out what happened. Day 45-60: The servicer sends you a “demand” letter because you failed to...

www.communitylegalaid.org

 

[TankMelee]

I guess the real question is: at what point in foreclosure precedings does the primary lien that is secured debt (a.k.a the mortgage), and isn't dischargable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, become unsecured mortgage debt that is dischargable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy?

Secured debt is "discharged," but through seizure of collateral. If DSP had an expensive car above the exemption (worth 16,000 where he owed 10,000 - I know DSP doesn't pay loans in a way that would allow this) his car loan would be discharged, but they would also take the car. You can think of it as "court takes the car -> car loan is unsecured -> car loan is discharged" if you like, but there's no real distinction. If the loan is unsecured the debt is gone; if it's secured the debt and collateral are gone.
I also don't understand your distinction between a lien/debt. The mortgage debt is the amount owed; the lien is what secures that debt to the property. It's just the claim the bank has, which lets them foreclose if you don't satisfy the loan terms. The debt always exists, but is secured by the lien. Midfirst still has the lien as long as the debt is unpaid. Your link doesn't include the words "lien" or "debt" so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Deficiency judgments are unsecured debt (since the property belongs to the bank by then), so unless Midfirst does some 4d chess move to pin it to WAkhando DSP gets away.

As for his HOA fees: he's required to pay those due to separate legal reasons in his condo contract until it leaves his name.

 

[UncleTusky]

If the loan is unsecured the debt is gone; if it's secured the debt and collateral are gone.

The confusion is because he is about $40,000 underwater on the place as of today. So if (when) the bank sells and doesn't get its money back in full, the sale is effectively creating unsecured debt. What we don't know is if that would be considered a new & therefore collectable debt.

 

[Prince Lotor]

Secured debt is "discharged," but through seizure of collateral. If DSP had an expensive car above the exemption (worth 16,000 where he owed 10,000 - I know DSP doesn't pay loans in a way that would allow this) his car loan would be discharged, but they would also take the car. You can think of it as "court takes the car -> car loan is unsecured -> car loan is discharged" if you like, but there's no real distinction. If the loan is unsecured the debt is gone; if it's secured the debt and collateral are gone.
I also don't understand your distinction between a lien/debt. The mortgage debt is the amount owed; the lien is what secures that debt to the property. It's just the claim the bank has, which lets them foreclose if you don't satisfy the loan terms. The debt always exists, but is secured by the lien. Midfirst still has the lien as long as the debt is unpaid. Your link doesn't include the words "lien" or "debt" so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Deficiency judgments are unsecured debt (since the property belongs to the bank by then), so unless Midfirst does some 4d chess move to pin it to WAkhando DSP gets away.

As for his HOA fees: he's required to pay those due to separate legal reasons in his condo contract until it leaves his name.

That's what I'm asking. If the lender still has a primary lien on the property and Phil is in possession of that property then the mortgage debt isn't dischargable in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Phil indicated on his bankruptcy filing that he wanted to surrender the property which means he was still in possession of it. I think kn the 341 call he stated it hadn't been foreclosed on i.e. the property hadn't actually changed hands during the foreclosure precedings yet.

Are you saying that the bankruptcy filing removed the primary lien on his CT property and changed possession of the property from Phil to MidFirst, which changed it into entirely unsecured mortgage debt that the bankruptcy then discharged?

I don't see where in Phil's foreclosure precedings the property changed hands. What Phil wanted to happen was "foreclosure court grants 'judgement to foreclose' and property changes ownership -> CT mortgage loan is now unsecured -> Phil files bankruptcy and unsecured CT mortgage debt gets discharged", but he ended up having to file bankruptcy before the property changed hands because otherwise his income would have disqualified him from Chapter 7.

Are you saying what happened is "Washington bankruptcy took possession of Phil's CT property when he filed -> Washington bankruptcy court returned ownership of Phil's CT property to MidFirst causing the mortgage to now be unsecured -> Washington bankruptcy court court ordered all Phil's unsecured debt discharged"? Because everything I can find says primary liens are unchanged by the Chapter 7 process, and there were no motions to remove any liens during his bankruptcy so far.

Edit: Oh okay. I found how it works to surrender your property in a bankruptcy and then have your secured debt discharged. Thanks for your help I wish someone had explained that aspect sooner.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/surrendering-secured-property-chapter-7-bankruptcy.html

Edit2: Also MidFirst BTFO
Edit3:Also, also wtf was Nicky Rackets talking about "You can't preemptively discharge the deficiency judgement because until the sale it's an unknown amount and you can't discharge an unknown amount"? It says on the filing he's surrendering the property.

So MidFirst got a relief from the stay but couldn't move fast enough to get a judgement on anything before the discharge was ordered, now they have a shitty condo it CT to sell