Sierra-117
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2020
I've posted here and there since the beginning of this thread and I've read every single page and comment. I wanted to make sure I had my DSM-V, the updated supplement to it, and other textbooks in front of me to compare data. I work in a combination of forensics and medicine. I obviously can't post proof, so take it as you will.
The "echolalia" she claims to have is actually most likely just Mirroring, which is a completely normal behavior that absolutely everyone does (less frequently if you're autistic or a sociopath). It could be anything from postures, gestures, facial expressions, speech patterns, or attitude . Mirroring often occurs in social situations, particularly in the company of close friends or family, but also in people who hold power over the person who is mirroring. It can sort of be compared to submission as it's a huge component of power dynamics. It's often exhibited in people who are subconsciously trying to gain approval or connect with a person. This is something thats present in infancy, and is an integral part of infants developing empathy and understanding of emotions. It is not the same as imitation, which is concious.
You ever hang out with a friend and then when you hang out with that friend with a group of friends, their behavior changes? Mirroring.
You ever have a significant other who you noticed has started copying memes you spout or things you say often? Mirroring (although in some cases it is imitation).
This is something we use in the criminal justice system to build rapport with a suspect during interviews. Detectives will try to get suspects to mirror them because it leads them into a false sense of companionship and security, leading to higher likelihood of confessions.
Edit: I forgot to mention, it's a damn shame we can't have people like you all as our detectives and police, because you all make some of them look like amateurs. You'd be surprised how much digital evidence is lost because the detectives have no idea how to work social media or electronics.
The "echolalia" she claims to have is actually most likely just Mirroring, which is a completely normal behavior that absolutely everyone does (less frequently if you're autistic or a sociopath). It could be anything from postures, gestures, facial expressions, speech patterns, or attitude . Mirroring often occurs in social situations, particularly in the company of close friends or family, but also in people who hold power over the person who is mirroring. It can sort of be compared to submission as it's a huge component of power dynamics. It's often exhibited in people who are subconsciously trying to gain approval or connect with a person. This is something thats present in infancy, and is an integral part of infants developing empathy and understanding of emotions. It is not the same as imitation, which is concious.
You ever hang out with a friend and then when you hang out with that friend with a group of friends, their behavior changes? Mirroring.
You ever have a significant other who you noticed has started copying memes you spout or things you say often? Mirroring (although in some cases it is imitation).
This is something we use in the criminal justice system to build rapport with a suspect during interviews. Detectives will try to get suspects to mirror them because it leads them into a false sense of companionship and security, leading to higher likelihood of confessions.
If you want my opinion, Chloe most likely has BPD and Bipolar disorder with narcissistic tendencies and malingering behaviors, although cluster B personality disorders can be a motherfucker to diagnose because they're all so similar, sometimes with vague distinguishing features. In fact, they all commonly co-occur with one another. A few notes:
1. Factitous disorder is only diagnosed when there seems to be no inherent gain, and there's clearly a motive here.
2. The DSM-V recommends that physicians avoid diagnosing BPD and BD together if they're basing the diagnosis on cross-sectional presentation without proper documentation that there was an early onset of the pattern of behavior that's pervasive.
3. I don't think HPD is entirely out of the question here, but again, that too can be mistaken for BPD. The main take away here is to determine if the traits associated with HPD cause "clinically significant impairment or distress."
4. I thought Chloe having a meltdown over a professional asking if she remembers her trauma was particularly interesting. Her invariably delicate and fragile sense of self esteem imploded into itself in a reaction that was not at all appropriate for the situation. The fact that she thinks of herself as a "professional" when amongst physicians and researchers who've spent decades on this despite no higher education or degree is laughable. "A sense of entitlement is evident in individuals unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment" - DSM-V, on NPD
5. When faced with criticism or defeat, although they may not show it outwardly, criticism may haunt these individuals and leave them feeling humiliated, degraded, hollow, and empty. Such experiences lead to social withdrawal or an appearance of humility that may mask and protect the grandiosity. - DSM-V, on NPD
6. The most useful feature in discriminating NPD from HPD, ASPD, and BPD in which the interactive styles of are coquettish, callous, and needy, respectively, is the grandiosity characteristic of NPD. The relative stability of self image as well as the lack of self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment concerns also help distinguish NPD from BPD. Although those with Cluster B personality disorders may require much attention, those with NPD specifically need that attention to be admiring.- DSM-V, on discriminating features.
I think Dr. Grande had it right. Regardless of whats really her diagnosis, she has a much broader mental illness that's going to take much introspection and dedication to commiting to getting the appropriate help needed for herself. One of the most difficult obstacles in doing this is admitting to themselves that they have manipulated, lied, and cheated others, but they are not the evil person they think of themselves as, even considering what they may have done. It's never too late to stop, and I think one of the saddest aspects about this is that those with BPD have a 50/50 shot of their lives greatly improving over 10 years with therapy, and the majority of individuals in their 30s and 40s attain greater stability in their relationships and vocational functioning.
Okay, I have to sleep now. I don't even want to go into Nan even though that shit with her flailing and screaming on the floor of the ER while in front of a dubious physician was fucking hilarious.
1. Factitous disorder is only diagnosed when there seems to be no inherent gain, and there's clearly a motive here.
2. The DSM-V recommends that physicians avoid diagnosing BPD and BD together if they're basing the diagnosis on cross-sectional presentation without proper documentation that there was an early onset of the pattern of behavior that's pervasive.
3. I don't think HPD is entirely out of the question here, but again, that too can be mistaken for BPD. The main take away here is to determine if the traits associated with HPD cause "clinically significant impairment or distress."
4. I thought Chloe having a meltdown over a professional asking if she remembers her trauma was particularly interesting. Her invariably delicate and fragile sense of self esteem imploded into itself in a reaction that was not at all appropriate for the situation. The fact that she thinks of herself as a "professional" when amongst physicians and researchers who've spent decades on this despite no higher education or degree is laughable. "A sense of entitlement is evident in individuals unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment" - DSM-V, on NPD
5. When faced with criticism or defeat, although they may not show it outwardly, criticism may haunt these individuals and leave them feeling humiliated, degraded, hollow, and empty. Such experiences lead to social withdrawal or an appearance of humility that may mask and protect the grandiosity. - DSM-V, on NPD
6. The most useful feature in discriminating NPD from HPD, ASPD, and BPD in which the interactive styles of are coquettish, callous, and needy, respectively, is the grandiosity characteristic of NPD. The relative stability of self image as well as the lack of self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment concerns also help distinguish NPD from BPD. Although those with Cluster B personality disorders may require much attention, those with NPD specifically need that attention to be admiring.- DSM-V, on discriminating features.
I think Dr. Grande had it right. Regardless of whats really her diagnosis, she has a much broader mental illness that's going to take much introspection and dedication to commiting to getting the appropriate help needed for herself. One of the most difficult obstacles in doing this is admitting to themselves that they have manipulated, lied, and cheated others, but they are not the evil person they think of themselves as, even considering what they may have done. It's never too late to stop, and I think one of the saddest aspects about this is that those with BPD have a 50/50 shot of their lives greatly improving over 10 years with therapy, and the majority of individuals in their 30s and 40s attain greater stability in their relationships and vocational functioning.
Okay, I have to sleep now. I don't even want to go into Nan even though that shit with her flailing and screaming on the floor of the ER while in front of a dubious physician was fucking hilarious.
Edit: I forgot to mention, it's a damn shame we can't have people like you all as our detectives and police, because you all make some of them look like amateurs. You'd be surprised how much digital evidence is lost because the detectives have no idea how to work social media or electronics.
