Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[King Dead]

I'm not really a trekie but Considering i liked those comics I picked up and now I just bought the first and fifth movie on Blu-ray I am concerned about myself.

But in all seriousness the criticism lobbied at the first movie is somewhat justified. The sets and miniatures are very well done putting the 60s show to shame but damn does it drag on at a snails pace. I have to imagine audiences in 1979 where baked off their assets watching this cause it's the only way these scenes could go by faster. Alien was definitely the better sci-fi movie of 79

I literally just rewatched it a few days ago, and when you're aware of the backstory behind its production, it makes more sense. To summarize, TMP used the pilot script from the proposed Phase II TV series that never aired, edited and expanded and stretched out to make a movie. Viewed in that context, while it can definitely feel plodding at times (the wormhole sequence, the various long effects shots of flying into V'Ger), it also feels the most like a TOS episode. It's the crew of the Enterprise boldly going where no man has gone before, a little corny at times but with that same sort of heart that makes TOS fun.

Of course, it also released in a post-Star Wars world, so a long and plodding yet thought-provoking sci-fi movie in the vein of 2001 just didn't resonate with audiences as well as a simple space adventure. It wasn't a total failure, but it also wasn't the runaway success Paramount was looking for. Funny you bring up Alien, since TMP did slightly better than Alien at the box office, though you might chalk that up to brand recognition. It did well enough to greenlight sequels, and most of those were good or great.

Still, I've got a soft spot for TMP. I don't even find the "boring" parts bad. Those long, beautiful effects shots show you the scale of just what the Enterprise is dealing with, the enormity of V'Ger and its mysteries. It's easy to get drawn in as you observe what the crew is looking at, and you get drawn into the mystery too. Plus all the sex metaphors are great, down to the cosmic orgasm at the end. I imagine it's also a fun movie to watch while high, so that can't hurt.

So yeah. Some of the criticism is justified, but not all of it. There's a lot to like in TMP, but nothing more than Persis Khambatta.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Yeah @UnKillFill and @King Dead you make fair points. Tmp does feel like a TV episode given a multi million dollar budget and stretched out to feature length. Not to mention the film had been in development before star wars and was only saved from staying a TV show because of sw and close encounters success. Still it's good thing wrath of Kahn learned that the landscape of sci-fi had changed since the days of tos and 2001 a space oddessy and balanced character drama with action.

 

[ditto]

Spock also gets to say "Orifice" a lot.

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

Joe Biden.

God you scared me for a moment, I was afraid Arm Pit Cream was going to start shitting up this thread now too.

 

[XYZpdq]

I think TMP benefits a lot from modern home media tech. You can enjoy the pretty filler a lot more in HD on a screen four feet wide than on a pan-and-scan vhs tape on a smaller screen.

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

I think TMP benefits a lot from modern home media tech. You can enjoy the pretty filler a lot more in HD on a screen four feet wide than on a pan-and-scan vhs tape on a smaller screen.

Did they do a remastered / 4K / Superbit / whatever version of the older films? Any edit shenanigans like with Star Wars or similar trivia to share?

 

[XYZpdq]

Did they do a remastered / 4K / Superbit / whatever version of the older films? Any edit shenanigans like with Star Wars or similar trivia to share?

iirc the only version of 6 that was on VHS was the extended cut?
TMP had a Special Edition around dvd, I don't think I've seen it in HD but I honestly don't remember what was different other than Vulcan getting some extra crap, and I've never bothered to sit down and watch TMP from start to finish in HD, I just catch a chunk here and there on cytube.

 

[Miller]

I think they've released the director's cut of TMP for the first time last year.

 

[Preferred Penne]

TMP feels like a TV episode because it WAS a TV episode. It's basically a retread of the episode "The Changeling".

A long lost 20th-century Earth space probe develops sentience and superintelligence and threatens to destroy humans if it cannot find its creator.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Yeah @UnKillFill and @King Dead you make fair points. Tmp does feel like a TV episode given a multi million dollar budget and stretched out to feature length. Not to mention the film had been in development before star wars and was only saved from staying a TV show because of sw and close encounters success. Still it's good thing wrath of Kahn learned that the landscape of sci-fi had changed since the days of tos and 2001 a space oddessy and balanced character drama with action.

I've mentioned this before in the RLM thread but Star Trek The Motion Picture WAS a TV episode stretched to fit a film. It was originally written to be the pilot for a new Star Trek series Gene wanted to make called Star Trek: Phase II and was originally titled "In Thy Image"

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

But in all seriousness the criticism lobbied at the first movie is somewhat justified. The sets and miniatures are very well done putting the 60s show to shame but damn does it drag on at a snails pace. I have to imagine audiences in 1979 where baked off their assets watching this cause it's the only way these scenes could go by faster. Alien was definitely the better sci-fi movie of 79

I have to admit, I actually really like the movie (2 and 4 are still vastly superior). The character interaction is pretty neat and I also enjoy the slow parts for the atmosphere. When they take the Enterprise out of the spacedock, we get many flybies and beautyshots and it really indulges in showing off the ship. I can see how this would be boring to some people, though.
When they encounter V'Ger and we get that long drawn out scene of the Enterprise entering it, it does take its time, sure, but it shows off how vast and magnificently huge V'Ger is, it builds up a pretty good atmosphere, but again, it indulges in showing us otherworldly and surreal images of something so alien and strange.
Both scenes take their time and if you've had your fill of beauty shots halfway through, it becomes annoying... but to me, it generates this sense of wonder, a bit like Jurassic Park, that takes its time before showing a full-grown dinosaur, but when it does, it's a scene with a big emotional impact and we are made to understand (by the reactions of the MCs) how astonishing and special that moment is.

If I had to choose, I'd rather pick Wrath of Khan or The Voyage Home, but I still like what TMP did and I salute it for not trying to be a Star Wars rip-off.

I guess I wouldn't have minded a bit more action in such a movie, but I don't miss it. Though I think Star Trek would be well advised to be the "large vessel naval combat in space" counterpart to Star Wars' "dogfighting in space" like we got in Wrath of Khan. New shows like STD and STP miss the point by turning every big end-fight into bajillions of ships and shuttles zipping around like a swarm of mosquitos. I have seen some snippets from various reviews and I have to say that I have never seen a fight scene that made me as nauseous and indifferent as this crap.

 

[BScCollateral]

I think TMP was reasonably well-received because it was nice to see the old ship and the old characters we were so fond of. Yes, it relied on nostalgia but it's not like anyone else was doing the same thing at the time, so it didn't feel like pandering.

 

[RumblyTumbly]

TMP definitely captured the feel of the original show, but with greater budget and production values.

And heck, I'd probably be okay with it if the plot was even remotely interesting...too bad it wasn't. It feels slow and boring because the identity of whatever the threat is isn't that interesting and the reveal doesn't feel like that big of a deal.

But hey, it looked great, and the score is phenomenal...so I guess you could say it was The Phantom Menace of 1979? (Sci-Fi Property brought back to the big screen with amazing effects and music...but ultimately a dull story).

 

[rabo]

Can we go back to the Roman custom of giving actors the same societal standing as prostitutes? I feel like that would solve so many problems with the entertainment industry.

Consider the likes of Weinstein and Bay, a lot of these young starlets had to whore themselves out so it's not too much of a stretch.

I didn't even notice Picard's mutt was a PitBull I haven't been invested much in it. What a fucking joke.

I realized that, altho Star Wars was nowhere as dear to me as Star Trek, the PreQuels made me lose respect in Darth Vader, and the Nu Wars made me stop caring about the series entirely. But they never made me hate the cast. Even if Christen took a great part in ruining the character of Darth Vader for me, he was reading lines, he was doing what Lucas told him to do. It's not his fault. Even how they ruined Luke's character, again, it didn't make me hate Mark for this. If anything, Mark was a bit vocal about how he didn't agree with what they did to Luke.

Star Trek Picard made me hate Patrick Stewart. It became so painfully obvious he didn't understand the first thing about Picard and that he went along happily with this farce, just because he wanted to get paid, was utter bullshit. He was fucking integral to the show, he had as much control has he wanted. You can't make a fucking Picard show with Stewart walking off. He deserves a majority of the blame for this. He is as complacent in ruining this than Kurtzman and that other bald jew who's name eludes me right now...

 

[Zemporer]

I'm not really a trekie but Considering i liked those comics I picked up and now I just bought the first and fifth movie on Blu-ray I am concerned about myself.

But in all seriousness the criticism lobbied at the first movie is somewhat justified. The sets and miniatures are very well done putting the 60s show to shame but damn does it drag on at a snails pace. I have to imagine audiences in 1979 where baked off their assets watching this cause it's the only way these scenes could go by faster. Alien was definitely the better sci-fi movie of 79

Did you watch 5 yet? I'm curious what you think. The Final Frontier is probably the worst Original Series film (perhaps due to slashed budgets and faulty direction and story concepts), but it does have a handful of amazing character moments (IMHO).

 

[A Grey Cat]

Did you watch 5 yet? I'm curious what you think. The Final Frontier is probably the worst Original Series film (perhaps due to slashed budgets and faulty direction and story concepts), but it does have a handful of amazing character moments (IMHO).

I know of the camping scene which is often considered the high point if V. Main because of how hard it is to watch in hindsight. Nemoy shatner and Kelly were all good friends in real life. And they made star trek what it's is. Now shatner really is going to die alone. Without nemoy and kelly because they're gone in real life too. So that camping episode much like Spock's death in 2 has become uncomfortable to watch in hindsight.

 

[rabo]

I know of the camping scene which is often considered the high point if V. Main because of how hard it is to watch in hindsight. Nemoy shatner and Kelly were all good friends in real life. And they made star trek what it's is. Now shatner really is going to die alone. Without nemoy and kelly because they're gone in real life too. So that camping episode much like Spock's death in 2 has become uncomfortable to watch in hindsight.

Now now, that would imply he had no family, loved ones and other friends.

He's not gonna die alone.

Also what about George? OH MY!

 

[A Grey Cat]

Now now, that would imply he had no family, loved ones and other friends.

He's not gonna die alone.

Also what about George? OH MY!

Yeah I guess there's that. Still to be the last of a group of friends always sucks big time.

 

[Zemporer]

I know of the camping scene which is often considered the high point if V. Main because of how hard it is to watch in hindsight. Nemoy shatner and Kelly were all good friends in real life. And they made star trek what it's is. Now shatner really is going to die alone. Without nemoy and kelly because they're gone in real life too. So that camping episode much like Spock's death in 2 has become uncomfortable to watch in hindsight.

This was always my favorite scene in 5 (hope my link works). I always loved Kirk's refusal to submit to Sybok's manipulation. Plus, it was a nice scene for McCoy and Spock as well.

 

[XYZpdq]

TMP does the spaceship gravure well

This was always my favorite scene in 5 (hope my link works). I always loved Kirk's refusal to submit to Sybok's manipulation. Plus, it was a nice scene for McCoy and Spock as well.

yeah five has its well-known problems, but it gives us important stuff from TOS that hadn't been in the movies yet so much, like rock-climbing, kicking gods in the dick, and giving speeches about how great it is to be a flawed human