The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Agreed. Maybe I am just getting folks the wrong way here (if so, my apologies), but I found some stuff people said on the issue to be dumb, hence why I made that post.

I think they were mostly just mad about the context of why you kill the video game dogs, not so much the killing video game dog in general.

 

[Dom Cruise]

No preference between the two actually.


This is just stupid nitpicking now. Plenty of games have dogs as enemies, doesn't make people who made them dog-haters. Rolling back a bit, as bad as presentation goes, the point is to make you feel guilty for killing the pet or the owner in its presence, not go "lel, I can burn dog".

Plenty of games have dogs as enemies but how many developers have dog in their name and (used to anyway) dogs in their offices?

 

[Kurtis Trent]

Agreed. Maybe I am just getting folks the wrong way here (if so, my apologies), but I found some stuff people said on the issue to be dumb, hence why I made that post.

This is the context if you wanna know.
Apparently it's from a retailer not something that ND actually wrote. Honeslty the last two sentences almost sound like a troll or an actual animal right activist but who knows

 

[Parthenos]

No preference between the two actually.
This is just stupid nitpicking now. Plenty of games have dogs as enemies, doesn't make people who made them dog-haters. Rolling back a bit, as bad as presentation goes, the point is to make you feel guilty for killing the pet or the owner in its presence, not go "lel, I can burn dog".

Mad white girls would rather fuck them than you?

It's like I'm really on /an/.

Anyways, the real issue is how much Druckmann can't apparently get his rocks off unless he forces suffering by proximity. I don't get it, is he saying that if you don't play his game, it's "toodeep4u" or something? If something's a misery simulator and it's not fun, then people aren't going to spend the money for it, be they normies or otherwise. There's very few pieces of media that are 100% grimdark, for good reason - if the audience doesn't get some levity, they'll make their own, and completely no-fun-allowed, supersrs stuff usually makes for the best jokes. Incidentally, that's why I'm sure TLOU2 will be the meme game of 2020, and I look forward to how many reviewers/Let's Players take the piss. Sony can't stop them all once the game's released.

 

[Burned Man]

No preference between the two actually.


This is just stupid nitpicking now. Plenty of games have dogs as enemies, doesn't make people who made them dog-haters. Rolling back a bit, as bad as presentation goes, the point is to make you feel guilty for killing the pet or the owner in its presence, not go "lel, I can burn dog".

I agree with you. Putting a dog enemy in a game does not make you a bad person neither does killing an aggressive dog in a game. Its the weird excitement and relish they seem to have in it's suffering that's a problem.

In most games dogs are an enemy just like any other. You kill them because you have too and the game doesn't penalize or otherwise treat it different from any other enemy. You kill it and move on. Its also not a point of advertisement. Our game lets you kill dogs and make their owners sad!

Its weird that the TLOU is wearing this as some sort of badge of honor and thinks its clever for doing so. It gets a little tiresome to have a game start going "don't you feel bad yet" when it throws something at you and you don't have a choice in the matter. I'm sure that dog has a master, those enemies appearing in a group are friends, and the possessions you loot have sentimental value to people but do I really need to know all this? Unless they do something crazy where it keeps track of every slight done to these npcs and makes a nemesis system in TLOU 3 where all these generic npcs show up for revenge (like Abby and the Doctor but on a much a greater scale) I don't really see a point other then going this world sucks I guess.

Now I'm starting to think of that scene from Return of the Jedi where Luke kills the Rancor and the beast master guy cries for a couple of seconds before moving on. We don't get a scene of the beast master wailing like a banshee, tears and snot pouring out of his face, shrieking its name and shaking its body before attacking Luke in grief and Luke killing him by smashing his face into a wall repeatedly.

 

[Muttnik]

When Batman chucks the rottweilers into the abyss in The Dark Knight, I don't freak out. Mostly because A.) The story and characters are so competent that I'm too invested in the upcoming Batman vs. Joker confrontation to care and B.) the movie isn't jacking off to the idea of the dogs dying horrifically.

TLOU 2 has done the exact opposite where the story and characters are shit and all they're doing IS focusing on the dogs dying and why you're an awful person for killing them. They could have just been like "hey, there are dogs in this game you might have to kill in order to survive". Instead you have to listen to their partner wailing their names in anguish and hear their wounded yelps as they burn to death. I think that's enough of a reason to say this is fucked up and should be shat on to the max.

 

[LawTwitter is Dumb]

When Batman chucks the rottweilers into the abyss in The Dark Knight, I don't freak out. Mostly because A.) The story and characters are so competent that I'm too invested in the upcoming Batman vs. Joker confrontation to care and B.) the movie isn't jacking off to the idea of the dogs dying horrifically.

TLOU 2 has done the exact opposite where the story and characters are shit and all they're doing IS focusing on the dogs dying and why you're an awful person for killing them. They could have just been like "hey, there are dogs in this game you might have to kill in order to survive". Instead you have to listen to their partner wailing their names in anguish and hear their wounded yelps as they burn to death. I think that's enough of a reason to say this is fucked up and should be shat on to the max.

We play games to escape shitty things (well, obviously depends on the game, TLOU isn't fucking Spec Ops: The Line though) as you said, this is just Cuckmans dream rape abuse fantasy of killing dogs and abusing lesbians with she hulk without makeup, with a golfing mini game attached.

 

[Shield Breaker]

Recent playstation mag dedicated whooping eight pages to this game revealing absolutely nothing new. The really tried to come up with 53 reasons to buy it.
No mention of Abby.

Spoiler

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Who buys game magazines these days?

 

[Kurtis Trent]

Who buys game magazines these days?

diehard sonybros, I guess
This is was from the free preview btw

 

[Gay_nig_from_outer_space]

Just watched the gameplay and wtf is naughty dogs problem, I've had two dogs in my lifetime and hearing that realistic dog yelp as it died was fucked up. Druckmann has to be a sadomasochist honestly.

 

[Hangula Hungui]

While I did grow up with cats, I never disliked dogs and always find myself bonding with them quite easily. Cats can seem distant and not interested in you at first, where as most dogs take less reading the room to gain their trust.
One thing both have in common is unconditional love and loyalty.

Spoiler: tldr about my personal life

I only recently had to bury my seventeen year old cat who had a massive tumor in his liver and suffered a stroke which made him not see things clearly anymore. I still tried to give him a dignifying last few months but the only thing he only really cared about was being near me, being cuddled and sleeping in my arms. I buried him in his favorite spot in the garden. I was there with him as he took his last breath, just like I was there for my grandparent‘s dog when he passed away. And just like with my cat, this unconditional love and loyalty was there with him and me until the end.

Druckmann, I absolutely despise you. This newly released footage made it even more clear for me.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Remember when Ubisoft presented ACdyssey by saying "for the first tme you can play a female character"? Uhm guys what about AC: Syndicate? I mean there isn't much in TLOU2 that hasn't been there before. Sure the game looks nice but well what else? And I stated before: where are the frigging plant Zombies / Monsters?

In Syndicate you could play as Evie in the overworld but her actual missions were only about 25% of the main game, meaning a lot of the time you'd play as her, then swap over to Jacob.

Odyssey was the first one in which they actively made sure you were character and voice swapped no matter who you played in all missions, and it looks like they're carrying that going forward. So in that... they're kinda right.

Also why would you want zombies in your lesbian golf dog killing simulator?

 

[The Fresh Maker]

I had that problem with my sibling, who is a huge fan of the first game. I mentioned the leaks but didn't tell him the specifics except that they were really bad. I figured that since he's a fan I would have a better chance at just being vague to where I didn't spoil anything but at the same time indicate that the direction wouldn't make him happy. Eventually, his curiosity got the better of him and he looked it up himself, and needless to say his first reaction was that it was really bad.

I don't know if he's still going to buy it or not though because even with the spoilers I'd imagine he'd still want to see the game for himself anyway (the same happened with the FF7 Remake where I told him the ending and even though he agreed it was dumb, he went ahead and got it anyway).

At least FF7 hasn't gone full assassination with the story and characters. I just hope the rest of the remake is faithful to the original game.

 

[Roast Chicken]

When Batman chucks the rottweilers into the abyss in The Dark Knight, I don't freak out. Mostly because A.) The story and characters are so competent that I'm too invested in the upcoming Batman vs. Joker confrontation to care and B.) the movie isn't jacking off to the idea of the dogs dying horrifically.

TLOU 2 has done the exact opposite where the story and characters are shit and all they're doing IS focusing on the dogs dying and why you're an awful person for killing them. They could have just been like "hey, there are dogs in this game you might have to kill in order to survive". Instead you have to listen to their partner wailing their names in anguish and hear their wounded yelps as they burn to death. I think that's enough of a reason to say this is fucked up and should be shat on to the max.

In Fallout 4 raider gangs have attack dogs. Most of them are the gross mutated variety but every now and again you'll get rotties or sweet-looking brindle boxer dogs coming at you. I shoot and pummel them anyway because they're enemies. Games have been doing this for ages, Drunkman isn't doing anything innovative here by trying to manipulate his audience into feeling bad about killing doggies.

 

[UnclePhil]

In Fallout 4 raider gangs have attack dogs. Most of them are the gross mutated variety but every now and again you'll get rotties or sweet-looking brindle boxer dogs coming at you. I shoot and pummel them anyway because they're enemies. Games have been doing this for ages, Drunkman isn't doing anything innovative here by trying to manipulate his audience into feeling bad about killing doggies.

Fallout: New Vegas has a quest where you're hired to kill three chem-addled sadists (one uses a unique golf club, lol) Of the three Fiends, Violet sics trained attack dogs on you and Cook-Cook frenzies if you kill his pet Brahmin, Queenie. Cook-Cook is a prolific rapist who flame broils his victims, but something about his mutant cow taps whatever pulverized human feelings he has left.

Games have a long history of doggo killing. How it hits the feels depends on context. In the old DOS Wolfenstein, B.J. dealt with German Shepard teeth as he escaped a Nazi death castle. Resident Evil has plenty of dogs; the implication is euthanasia, plus it's safer to clear aggro'd doggie rooms.

Duke Nukem 3D had a weird area (Episode 4, I think) where a cute dog was just sitting there wagging its tail at me. I got in a firefight with aliens, and in the aftermath…puppers? Vaporized. Fuck.

In Silent Hill 3 you retrieve a key from a cooked dog—Team Silent poking at your worst nightmares.

Like you said, Neil isn't unique or groundbreaking. He constructs his narrative from ancient literary tropes he pretends his galaxy brain invented, and dogs are another product of his brilliance. The difference is the sadistic emphasis he puts on killing these animals, in a game entirely rooted in nihilism (Neililism?) and making you feel bad. You can kill doggo enemies and not think twice, but really hurting them (and their grieving owners) sets this trash pile apart.

 

[aricebowl]

Honestly it’s not that Neil is trying to be dark and edgy , it’s the fact that he’s boringly dark and edgy that makes it for me. The violence that Neil is trying to push doesn’t really work because there are games that are much more violent and there’s probably a couple that are more realistic about it then Neil can be, the fungus zombies that the game is supposedly about are less horrifying then the concept art and the “twists” that Neil’s trying to do are all uninspired and have been done much better in other pieces of media. So he’s not only a talentless hack but he’s also a Uninspired Hack at that.

 

[GaddafyTheLooneyDuck]

I agree with you. Putting a dog enemy in a game does not make you a bad person neither does killing an aggressive dog in a game. Its the weird excitement and relish they seem to have in it's suffering that's a problem.

In most games dogs are an enemy just like any other. You kill them because you have too and the game doesn't penalize or otherwise treat it different from any other enemy. You kill it and move on. Its also not a point of advertisement. Our game lets you kill dogs and make their owners sad!

Its weird that the TLOU is wearing this as some sort of badge of honor and thinks its clever for doing so. It gets a little tiresome to have a game start going "don't you feel bad yet" when it throws something at you and you don't have a choice in the matter. I'm sure that dog has a master, those enemies appearing in a group are friends, and the possessions you loot have sentimental value to people but do I really need to know all this? Unless they do something crazy where it keeps track of every slight done to these npcs and makes a nemesis system in TLOU 3 where all these generic npcs show up for revenge (like Abby and the Doctor but on a much a greater scale) I don't really see a point other then going this world sucks I guess.

Now I'm starting to think of that scene from Return of the Jedi where Luke kills the Rancor and the beast master guy cries for a couple of seconds before moving on. We don't get a scene of the beast master wailing like a banshee, tears and snot pouring out of his face, shrieking its name and shaking its body before attacking Luke in grief and Luke killing him by smashing his face into a wall repeatedly.

Neil saw how shocking scenes in the first game worked for the audienece, i.e. Joel's little daughter getting shot by a grunt, Henry blowing his brains out after having to kill his brother turned infected, you name it, so he decided to go even further, thinking that people would like it cus your gut gets punched right in the feels. Problem is that he seemingly does not realize that dark and provocative content needs to be done wisely, especially if the aim is to make you, the player, feel bad about your actions. Do it right, it works. Do it wrong, it fails.

For example, when making Modern Warfare's reboot, Infinity numerous times nodded at Spec Ops: The Line, promising a dark game with "grey morality", but what came out is another wacky cardboard attraction about evil terrorists and Russians with some shock-content, around which the game carries you by hand and points its finger at things you should be disturbed by ("look over here, piles of dead people! Look here, Russians are gassing civilians! Over here, that fanatic just shot a boy in front of his mother! Here terrorists are killing people! Take a gun and torture that evil terrorist in front of his family, but nuh-uh-uh, you can't hurt his wife and son!").

 

[Michael Wade]

Neil saw how shocking scenes in the first game worked for the audienece, i.e. Joel's little daughter getting shot by a grunt, Henry blowing his brains out after having to kill his brother turned infected, you name it, so he decided to go even further, thinking that people would like it cus your gut gets punched right in the feels. Problem is that he seemingly does not realize that dark and provocative content needs to be done wisely, especially if the aim is to make you, the player, feel bad about your actions. Do it right, it works. Do it wrong, it fails.

For example, when making Modern Warfare's reboot, Infinity numerous times nodded at Spec Ops: The Line, promising a dark game with "grey morality", but what came out is another wacky cardboard attraction about evil terrorists and Russians with some shock-content, around which the game carries you by hand and points its finger at things you should be disturbed by ("look over here, piles of dead people! Look here, Russians are gassing civilians! Over here, that fanatic just shot a boy in front of his mother! Here terrorists are killing people! Take a gun and torture that evil terrorist in front of his family, but nuh-uh-uh, you can't hurt his wife and son!").

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one who hated how stupid the Russians were handled in modern warfare. They were so comical they made the Kevin Spacey villain look dignified. Almost as bad as the characters in black ops 3.

But back on topic, The last of us 2 is not going to sink Sony. At least not if the launch lineup for the ps5 is half as good as I hear. But this is going to leave a black mark on naughty dog.
Im honestly not sure which is worse, the Telltail walking dead games or this in term of sheer misery porn.

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one who hated how stupid the Russians were handled in modern warfare. They were so comical they made the Kevin Spacey villain look dignified. Almost as bad as the characters in black ops 3.

But back on topic, The last of us 2 is not going to sink Sony. At least not if the launch lineup for the ps5 is half as good as I hear. But this is going to leave a black mark on naughty dog.
Im honestly not sure which is worse, the Telltail walking dead games or this in term of sheer misery porn.

Thing is, the TellTale Walking Dead Games do misery porn right they also have the blessing of Robert Kirkman to the point he outright declared them canonical as the game's writers got his vision on point a hell of a lot more than AMC did with the TV series (because the writing team there just had to put their spin on it the moment Episode 1 was done).

TWD's universe is bleak as fuck for a reason, everything's gone to utter shit and morality has largely collapsed leaving it to people to make do as best they can in a world that's now ridiculously harsh for everyone left. The key difference is its everyone looking to make their own version of civilisation. Either as it was before (Alexandria Safe Zone, The Commonwealth) or into a new vision of what works in this new, dangerous world (The Saviors, Woodbury, The Whispers).

In its first season it's about a convict showing the way to a moment of a better life, but that is all we really have. A fleeting moment of the better. Happyness has to be striven for, and the remaining seasons are Clementine trying to find that better life again, and unlike Misery Mc Drunkmann she gets her happy ending.

This is probably the issue with LTOU2 in its clear and obvious form. We already see its nothing but a miserable, narcassistic ending from the get go. LTOU at least gave us the moment of Joel protecting his adoptive daughter and heading back to Jackson to settle down and start a hopefully quieter life.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

This is probably the issue with LTOU2 in its clear and obvious form. We already see its nothing but a miserable, narcassistic ending from the get go. LTOU at least gave us the moment of Joel protecting his adoptive daughter and heading back to Jackson to settle down and start a hopefully quieter life.

B-but fun is misogynist and transphobic, so you've got to feel bad man or you have unexamined privilege.