Containment Official Decision Regarding Gender and Chris/Gender Discussion Megathread

[Delicious Stickmeat]

I think more of them just actually don't want to do anything irreversible, because they're just in it because it's this week's fashion.

In their tiny, shriveled little hearts, they know they're full of shit, so they rail against the medical model that basically says they're phonies.

A few people get dragged into it and end up delusional from groupthink and then, for whatever reason, do get turned away by the gatekeepers. Correctly, because if a doctor gives someone an irreversible surgery that they turn out regretting, guess who gets sued?

Actually being TG is pretty uncommon, probably well less than a fraction of a percent. It isn't something that somehow you magically turn into the moment you get a tumblr account, although tumblrinas seem to think this.

I think a huge chunk of it revolves around being a ~rebel~ and such things. Bucking the system and all that. Hell, we're seeing it now with the "tucute" types: rebelling against the "conformity" that is a medical definition. So yeah, of course they don't want to make a irreversible decision...why do that when you can fight The Man by being a non-conforming demiromantic noungender CAFAB?

I disagree slightly with the "gatekeeper" mentality though. For a long time, there's been too much gatekeeping when it came to transgender treatment, and it caused lots of headaches. Requirements like "you must spend 6 months living in your gender before hormones" and "you must get a divorce before proceeding with SRS" caused lots of legitimately trans people to forgo treatment. Not only that, there are a few providers out there who'll let their own prejudices slip in to decisions for patients. I knew of one counselor, a rabid lesbian feminist, who refused to give treatment authorizations to her MtF patients unless said patients wrote an essay on the evils of manhood, and how being a woman would be superior.

You're right, gender dysphoria is pretty uncommon overall. Easy trick to tell apart the trenders: Ask the person what they did to cure themselves. Most legit trans people I know will go through a long time of trying to fix themselves before finally admitting that yup, transition is the only answer.

 

[AnOminous]

I disagree slightly with the "gatekeeper" mentality though. For a long time, there's been too much gatekeeping when it came to transgender treatment, and it caused lots of headaches. Requirements like "you must spend 6 months living in your gender before hormones" and "you must get a divorce before proceeding with SRS" caused lots of legitimately trans people to forgo treatment. Not only that, there are a few providers out there who'll let their own prejudices slip in to decisions for patients. I knew of one counselor, a rabid lesbian feminist, who refused to give treatment authorizations to her MtF patients unless said patients wrote an essay on the evils of manhood, and how being a woman would be superior.

That last sounds like a horrible person. That's basically a form of extortion and should probably be treated as malpractice of some sort.

However, most excessive gatekeeping has more to do with fear of liability than "muh patriarchy."

I think the medical model is also very flawed, but when something involves fairly drastic surgery with no directly physical justification for it, the profession needs some justification for actually endorsing the procedure. There has to be an actual problem, and the outcome of the procedure has to be positive from an objective standpoint as measured after the fact. If it didn't "work" to cause at least subjective improvement after the fact (i.e. if most patients got worse after it) then it wouldn't be sanctioned.

 

[Delicious Stickmeat]

I think the medical model is also very flawed, but when something involves fairly drastic surgery with no directly physical justification for it, the profession needs some justification for actually endorsing the procedure. There has to be an actual problem, and the outcome of the procedure has to be positive from an objective standpoint as measured after the fact. If it didn't "work" to cause at least subjective improvement after the fact (i.e. if most patients got worse after it) then it wouldn't be sanctioned.

I agree totally, and the current standards of care do a good job in covering that. For anything "medical" like hormones, surgery, and the like, a disinterested medical professional has to review the case and agree with the treating professional that yes, said intervention is appropriate. It makes for a good sanity checkpoint, and helps prevent providers "farming" for surgery and such to inflate their own bank accounts.

Objectively, hormones and SRS work for the most severe cases of gender dysphoria. Hence, providers will do everything they can to improve quality of life without having to reach that level. It's only when quality of life improvements outweigh negative aspects of hormones/surgery (and that's a huge hill to climb) will providers actually agree to those interventions.

 

[CatParty]

sooo this is just a general trans debate thread now? maybe @Hellblazer should just lock it

 

[Wulfgar Von Heltzer]

can't have that! where will @Wulfgar Von Heltzer have an mra safehaven?!

Is there really anymore discussion to be had here regarding Chris's gender identity? Nobody can be certain if he's trans or not (if that's a real thing in the first place), and people are gonna refer to him as he or she if they want to.

Also I'm an egalitarion but you seem to be implying that MRA's are bad. What do you have against people who advocate for mens rights? Do you think men shouldn't have rights? I keep occasionally seeing that word thrown around here as if it's a bad thing. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if they've been co-opted with radicals, and for the same reason feminism has. But personally I have yet to encounter any bad MRAs.

There's this bizarre viewpoint that MRA's are inherently the devil, that I don't understand. Seems to be consistent viewpoint amount rad-fems and SJW's.

Honestly if you want equality you should just call yourself an egalitarian.

But that's another topic for another thread.

Also people keep rating my trans opinion posts dumb but not explaining why it's dumb. Because apparently it's dumb to disagree with the narrative that transgenderism, which hasn't been proven to be real, is a real thing and I should just agree with people being encouraged to mutilate their genitals beyond repair instead of trying to convince them to just be happy with what they were born as, and refer to anyone who claims they're trans by their desired pronouns even tho there's no sufficient reason to believe they're really born in the wrong gender.

Can I ask why there are tumblr fags on a forum making fun of tumblrfags?

 

[TranLord]

dude, just stop

 

[Marvin]

Also people keep rating my trans opinion posts dumb but not explaining why it's dumb. Because apparently it's dumb to disagree with the narrative that transgenderism, which hasn't been proven to be real, is a real thing and I should just agree with people being encouraged to mutilate their genitals beyond repair instead of trying to convince them to just be happy with what they were born as, and refer to anyone who claims they're trans by their desired pronouns even tho there's no sufficient reason to believe they're really born in the wrong gender.

Can I ask why there are tumblr fags on a forum making fun of tumblrfags?

This isn't the thread to sperg about the legitimacy of transgenderism.

Take that elsewhere, please.

 

[Ruin]

Also people keep rating my trans opinion posts dumb but not explaining why it's dumb. Because apparently it's dumb to disagree with the narrative that transgenderism, which hasn't been proven to be real, is a real thing and I should just agree with people being encouraged to mutilate their genitals beyond repair instead of trying to convince them to just be happy with what they were born as, and refer to anyone who claims they're trans by their desired pronouns even tho there's no sufficient reason to believe they're really born in the wrong gender.

Can I ask why there are tumblr fags on a forum making fun of tumblrfags?

We're not feminists, we're demikin Skeltns. Learn the difference.

 

[Wulfgar Von Heltzer]

This isn't the thread to sperg about the legitimacy of transgenderism.

Take that elsewhere, please.

Alrighty then.

 

[Lipitor]

I've been reading about Autism, Transgender and sexuality in general. It seems like the autism spectrum has a higher proportion of both homosexuals and transgendered individuals. http://autism-help.org/adults-aspergers-sexual.htm It also has dooming projections for his romantic success rate.

I wonder why is that? And what we can understand from Christian about that.

I seriously think the worst part about this is him not getting any help other than his own self-directed google search, where he just looks for what he wants to hear. He should be seeing a shrink for this. It's shitty cruel parenting that Barb isn't sending him to one. He should have gone to one just cuz he's autistic, he should have gone to one after he got trolled hard on the internet, he should have gone to one when he started displaying anti-social behavior, he should damn sure see one about this bullshit. Barb just lets him ruminate in his insanity.

For what it's worth I also found a thread written by mothers of autistic children. One mother said her son was stealing the little sister's clothes and wearing them. When she confronted him about it he said "I'd be teased less if I was a girl".... Do you think Christian came to a similar realization? Notice the majority of the trolling just stops once he starts the trans bullshit. Could this reinforce his belief that he'd be teased less if he were female, making him much more likely to want to be female?

 

[Holdek]

I've been reading about Autism, Transgender and sexuality in general. It seems like the autism spectrum has a higher proportion of both homosexuals and transgendered individuals. http://autism-help.org/adults-aspergers-sexual.htm It also has dooming projections for his romantic success rate.

I wonder why is that? And what we can understand from Christian about that.

I seriously think the worst part about this is him not getting any help other than his own self-directed google search, where he just looks for what he wants to hear. He should be seeing a shrink for this. It's shitty cruel parenting that Barb isn't sending him to one. He should have gone to one just cuz he's autistic, he should have gone to one after he got trolled hard on the internet, he should have gone to one when he started displaying anti-social behavior, he should damn sure see one about this bullshit. Barb just lets him ruminate in his insanity.

For what it's worth I also found a thread written by mothers of autistic children. One mother said her son was stealing the little sister's clothes and wearing them. When she confronted him about it he said "I'd be teased less if I was a girl".... Do you think Christian came to a similar realization? Notice the majority of the trolling just stops once he starts the trans bullshit. Could this reinforce his belief that he'd be teased less if he were female, making him much more likely to want to be female?

Eh I don't think so. I mean, Tomgirl's getting trolled no matter what he does.

As for the autism-homo-tranny link, that's something that will probably take a long time to figure out, considering research into transgender neuroscience is still pretty early. My hunch, though, in scientific terms is fucked up brains, mang.

 

[Strelok]

Also people keep rating my trans opinion posts dumb but not explaining why it's dumb. Because apparently it's dumb to disagree with the narrative that transgenderism, which hasn't been proven to be real, is a real thing and I should just agree with people being encouraged to mutilate their genitals beyond repair instead of trying to convince them to just be happy with what they were born as, and refer to anyone who claims they're trans by their desired pronouns even tho there's no sufficient reason to believe they're really born in the wrong gender.

Can I ask why there are tumblr fags on a forum making fun of tumblrfags?

I rated you dumb because people who complain about negative ratings are insuffrable.

 

[BT 075]

dude, just stop

@Wulfgar Von Heltzer, you know you fucked up when the guy who prefaces things by saying he likes the idea of fucking dogs tells you stop.

 

[Pickle Inspector]

For what it's worth I also found a thread written by mothers of autistic children. One mother said her son was stealing the little sister's clothes and wearing them. When she confronted him about it he said "I'd be teased less if I was a girl".... Do you think Christian came to a similar realization? Notice the majority of the trolling just stops once he starts the trans bullshit. Could this reinforce his belief that he'd be teased less if he were female, making him much more likely to want to be female?

I did a Google search for male lesbian and a 1987 study into "Shyness & Love" came up, it's likely outdated in parts but it's pretty interesting that the quotes from the sample group of "Male lesbians" sound really similar to the things that Chris has said in the past:

To be perfectly frank, I don't think I would be shy at all if it wasn't for this goddam norm that says that only the man can make the first move with a woman in asking for dates.

I mean if both sexes had equal responsibility for having to suffer the indignity of having to make the first move, I just know I would have been married fourteen or maybe fifteen years ago. (35-year old love-shy man.)

This is how the author differentiated transgender people with male lesbians (Basically Transgender people wanted a sex change):

Spoiler

Moreover, none of the love-shy men studied for this research entertained any wishes or fantasies of any kind pertinent to the idea of obtaining a sex change operation.

All wanted to keep their male genitalia; all wanted to remain as males. However, all deeply envied the perogatives of the female gender and truly believed that these perogatives fitted their own inborn temperaments far more
harmoniously than the pattern of behavioral expectations to which males are required to adhere.

 

[geewizz]

I seriously think the worst part about this is him not getting any help other than his own self-directed google search, where he just looks for what he wants to hear. He should be seeing a shrink for this. It's shitty cruel parenting that Barb isn't sending him to one. He should have gone to one just cuz he's autistic, he should have gone to one after he got trolled hard on the internet, he should have gone to one when he started displaying anti-social behavior, he should damn sure see one about this bullshit. Barb just lets him ruminate in his insanity.

Well people selectively looking for answers on the internet is nothing new. Ask any Fat Acceptance activist and they'll quote your ears off with facts and figures from world-renowned reputable institutions like Tumblr or Nestle, or anti-vaxers with proven, established facts from Mumsnet. Chris should have been seeing a mental health professional in community college for the whole love quest sign thing. I'm surprised the community college let him slip through the net like that. Yes it's hilarious but it's also a glaring red flag in terms of his mental well-being. I find it cute that Barb would just chalk it all up to his autism and ignore it as a mental health issue, just like how she's been ignoring the autism itself since he was diagnosed. It's a sad fact that Chris might not be the bumbling, confused paranoid mess he is today if he had parents that weren't so wildly ignorant of his condition.

 

[Holdek]

the guy who prefaces things by saying he likes the idea of fucking dogs

whoa wtf

why isn't that in spergatory?

 

[CatParty]

petition to @Hellblazer to rename this general bitching thread

it's like they don't even look in off topic for these subjects that are so burning in their minds that they need to spew it out in a thread that is largely unnecessary since chris doesn't even care.

 

[EI 903]

Nah, it's just dead. After 22 pages, there's nothing much more to be said.

 

[Phobotech]

Do people in the LGBT community generally reject his self-classification as a trans woman, and has he removed his dick or is he actually going to, or is everyone kinda unanimously going "Yeah, uhuh, SUUUURE YOU'RE a chick, aint we all, buddy"

 

[Marvin]

Do people in the LGBT community generally reject his self-classification as a trans woman, and has he removed his dick or is he actually going to, or is everyone kinda unanimously going "Yeah, uhuh, SUUUURE YOU'RE a chick, aint we all, buddy"

There's solid arguments that Chris is genuinely trans. It's not merely a self classification. He's seen psychologists and has been given permission to go on a hormone replacement therapy regimen.

The gay community generally supports him, as far as I can tell.