Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[Archeopthryx]

Man can't wait for the second wave. This time people won't shut down the economy like a retard.

 

[FuckedUp]

I can't wait to troll people less than 2 years my junior by saying everyone born after August 2001 (or whatever their kindergarten cutoff was) is permanently a child because they either haven't "yet" had their high school graduation ceremony, OR are younger than an entire year of people who haven't so they're logically children too.

 

[CDWLTY]

A year ago I never would have guessed I'd be pondering and somewhat in favor of :
1. Re-segregation. After 60 years of forced integration, it seems 'diversity' may not be humanly possible and differences will always be apparent.
2. Balkanization of the U.S. It's a huge country, and to a certain extent I'd be happy to have the states just take care of their own shit. Seems like the variance is being pointed to as problematic and stupidity, but people who live there should be the ones to establish risk levels for their populace. I wish I could see the effect of the Feds never acting at all, how many of these cities would have shut down Chinese travel out of fear of being racist? Only when SuperDonnie actually did it, late and gay as ever, did they start treating travel blocks as something in the realm of possibility.


I'm grateful we finally got masks in the U.S. as an acceptable piece of outer wear. I've worn them for years when sick out of courtesy, and I LOVE being anonymous with sunglasses. I don't have to feign interest and friendliness when I listen to donna tell me all about her daughter's wedding at lunch, either. Just look around and nod once in a while.

This is interesting. In the very first set of case reports, from China, they strongly advised against use of dexamethasone and showed ‘data’ that made it seem as if it increased death rates by a significant amount.
Now a british study, RECOVER, shows it’s extremely effective.

http://archive.md/vNnKj

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281

How many lives lost by listening to the original
Advice from China?

Wow, that's really really racist to say that kind of thing about our good, dear friends at the WHO. Y'know they're doing their best, and both North China and Southern, Island China have made great headway in saving the world from this pernicious american virus.

 

[FuckedUp]

If my school requires masks for classes this September I'm going to kill myself because I've been avoiding putting one on for the past three months which has gotten increasingly hard. (I know they probably will unless everyone's forced to stop this BS by then )

 

[Cat Menagerie]

Since Tulsa is hosting Trump this Saturday, you may be hearing about our spike in cases in Oklahoma. I can't speak for Tulsa, but the situation in OKC is far less grim than the media might have one believe. The mayor issued a statement earlier about the latest data.

In Oklahoma City, we look at the COVID-19 data every day and we stay in constant communication with our local public health officials. As I shared over the weekend, our new cases continue to be at an elevated level, resulting from an upward trend that began right around June 1.

In the interest of transparency, I want to add some new analysis that adds to our understanding of this increase. Curiously, even as cases have increased in June, hospitalizations have continued to stay flat and today even declined to where just 13 people are currently hospitalized for COVID-19 in Oklahoma County. In fact, it has been five days since a new COVID-19 patient entered a hospital in Oklahoma County. Additionally, Oklahoma County has suffered only two deaths from COVID-19 in the last 22 days.

So what in the world is happening? How can these opposing trends co-exist? Well, it seems we are having a very noticeable spike in cases among young people, especially between the ages of 18-35. And though there are exceptions to every rule, and I sure don’t recommend that people of any age catch COVID-19, it is generally true that young people experience milder symptoms.

From March 15-May 31, only 30 percent of all cases in Oklahoma County were diagnosed in people below the age of 35. In June, however, 55 percent of all cases have been diagnosed among people below the age of 35. And 45 percent of all June cases are specifically in the age demographic of 18-35.

So, my message remains the same to people of all ages - wash your hands, maintain your distance and wear your masks in public situations where social distancing is difficult. But especially to our young people - please do your part! And remember that even if you are asymptomatic, you can be a carrier for the virus to older people you love who will not be so fortunate.

Be well, OKC.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I don't even know if you're kidding here. Please tell me you're kidding.

As I mentioned in other posts, it's not even like Spain doesn't have dictators which actually had a better reputation, Primo de Rivera was really well loved at the time and most critique only came after the fact. But Franco? Even the actual original conspirators hated the guy, they only followed him because the british secret service forced them to, the army hated him, they actually tried to coup him but he sent the conspirators to the blue division and Hitler stopped them. Again, only reason he got where he did was because he sold Gibraltar to the british, morocco to the french, a shitton of production and manpower to the german and multiple bases to the USA so every fucking foreign power was backing him.

He was really stupid to boot btw, his mismanagement of shit like Doñana, the hydroelectrics to the north, etc. Is LEGENDARY. Fucker wasn't just pure evil, which he also was, he was a fucking idiot too. Forget comparisons with Hitler, he looks bad even when compared with MUSSOLINNI! Like literally, the army literally said he was just a bad copy of Primo de Rivera. Just think about that, not even his generals could stand the guy for the most part. Echoing a lot of what Hitler said in his letters, which in case you didn't notice started with the term "INSUFERABLE." He was a petty, egotistical, greedy, corrupt, dumb as bricks little man. Literally the worst person to be in his place. But with foreign pressure backing him and spreading rumors of how spain would collapse into communism if he wasn't in power, well, can't do shit to take him out.

He certainly was a totalitarian regime, or at least as totalitarian as he could be 'cause he sure as shit didn't manage to stop the strikes despite trying to persecute them with actual kidnappings, murders, concentration camps and machineguns. (Terror Blanco, look it up.) Which again, in big part was because, well to begin with the "greys", which nowadays are the national police, at the time were his fucking anti-strike corps, were the remnants of the "guardia de asalto", the republican police force, so while a lot of the... newer higher ups were absolutely abhorrent (billy el niño, look it up), the lower ranks in many areas did everything they could to turn a blind eye to their orders. So again. Literally no one liked the guy, we only stood him because we had to, because the USA, UK and French secret services propped him up, and turned a blind eye to his concentration camps, mass slaughter, and collective graves. Kinda fucking hard to go against agents of all of those countries at once during WW2 and the cold war you know.

franco is a cool guy. Eh kills communists and doesn’t afraid of anything.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

Johan Giesecke, the man who claimed 99% of Stockholmers had already had the Corona virus in April and who declared no competing interests until recently, does have competing interests to declare.

Corona: Johan Giesecke döljer jäv och intressekonflikter

archived 13 Jun 2020 16:04:22 UTC

archive.md

Johan Giesecke's million deals - hides conflicts of interest
Johan Giesecke, 70, is the richest of all corona profiles.
The former state epidemiologist has strong connections to at least three different companies. His wife Kajsa Giesecke sits on the board of a private hospital caring for patients with covid-19.
Despite this, he has not declared conflicts of interest and withheld information - both from his client Public Health Authority and the reputed science journal The Lancet.
- It is clear that this is to be reported, says Christer Janson, press manager at the Public Health Authority to Expressen.
Former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke, 70, has been described as the brain behind the Swedish corona strategy.
Johan Giesecke earns the most of the corona pandemic's main profiles, almost SEK 2.5 million in 2018. At that time, he declared an acquisition income of SEK 572,900 and a surplus of capital 1,889,735.
Johan Giesecke has hired and been a mentor to the Public Health Authority's current state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, and has also hired the authority's Director General Johan Carlson. In an interview with the magazine Hospital Doctor, he says that "both two have been my boys!"
Giesecke's million deal
Since the end of March this year, the former state epidemiologist has a million agreement as a consultant to the Public Health Agency with the mission "work with corona control".
Johan Giesecke has been hailed as a communicator in the industry magazine Resumé and was called coronance Leif GW Persson. He has defended the cautious Swedish model in both Swedish and international media. In an interview with Dagens industri in early April, for example, he said that everyone else is wrong.
- I think we will cope with the epidemic without destroying the economy more than necessary. The most important thing is to protect the elderly from becoming infected. I think we succeed with that, Johan Giesecke said.
But Giesecke's assignment as an adviser to the Public Health Authority has not always appeared in the media. He has often been presented as a former state epidemiologist and advisor to WHO. Johan Giesecke billed the Public Health Agency for participation in Aktuellt and TV4 Nyheterna in April, which freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten was the first to tell about on his blog.
According to the Public Health Authority, the invoice is incorrect because it is not Giesecke's task to comment in the media on behalf of the authority. The money will not be paid out. The professor writes in a reply that he "worked almost 24 hours a day for the Public Health Authority in April, and considered me almost as an employee."
Member of the board of pharmaceutical companies
Expressen can now reveal that Johan Giesecke has not stated any conflict, conflicts of interest or other obligations in violation of the rules.
In the declaration of disagreement he signed in connection with the consultancy assignment at the Public Health Authority, he has asked whether he has, or for the past five years, had "any more solid connection with a company or stakeholder" only that he owns a farm, Skärfsta farm in Södertälje, which is his own company. The farm has a valuation value of SEK 10.8 million.
He does not say that he is a deputy board member of the company Scandinavian Intensive Care AB, where his wife Kajsa is a member. The company had sales of SEK 4.2 million for 2018/2019 last year and made a profit after net financial items of SEK 2.47 million. Giesecke also does not say that he sits on the board of the pharmaceutical company Ultupharma AB, which according to the latest annual report had equity of SEK 12.5 million.
Johan Giesecke also crosses the question of whether he has, or for the past five years, had "other forms of ties to companies that are close to his own area of expertise", for example through "kinship or close relationships with person in company". At the same time, Kajsa Giesecke is the initiator and former operations manager of the respiratory hospital Remeo AB, where she also sits on the board.
Remeo, located in Stockholm, is Sweden's only highly specialized hospital for the care of intensive care patients with respiratory problems and receives covid-19 patients. Remeo invoiced Karolinska University Hospital with a daily allowance of SEK 7.3 million for April this year. The company had sales of SEK 103 million last year and made a profit after net financial items of SEK 6.2 million.
Kajsa Giesecke's clinic has also helped to build the field hospital in Älvsjö, which was never used and now has to be demolished.
- This is a completely unique situation. And without us, private actors, public healthcare would have been difficult to mobilize, Kajsa Giesecke told Dagens Industri at the end of March.
The Public Health Authority has not known about Johan Giesecke's corporate connections.
"It is clear that it should be reported," says Christer Janson, head of the press at the Public Health Authority.
The press manager then writes in an SMS to Expressen:
“Our Chief Counsel replies that Johan has not taken up this information and that we will therefore ask him to supplement it. The public health authority can then assess these data. "
Johan Giesecke has pleaded for the Swedish corona model in an article in the prestigious scientific journal The Lancet on 5 May. He argued that all countries will have about the same proportion of deaths in the end and that it will have no effect on shutting down communities.
The former state epidemiologist signs with his address at the Karolinska Institute. He does not say that he is an adviser to the Public Health Authority or any other associations. Under the article it says: "I declare no competing interest", ie no conflicts of interest.
Professor: "It is important to report"
Kajsa Giesecke does not want to answer Expressen's questions if she receives board fees from Remeo and if so how much or if she or her husband owns shares in Remeo. She comments by text message that she "ended her commitment to Remeo", and is now retired. Kajsa Giesecke also writes that she as an initiator and expert is sometimes employed as a consultant, but not regularly.
Johan Giesecke does not want to answer Expressen's questions about the financial interests he and his wife have and why he did not report his and his wife's corporate interests in the declaration to the Public Health Authority. He replies "I have no comment." repeatedly, wants to end the call and says:
- I don't think there will be much of this interview.
Björn Olsen, chief physician and professor of infectious diseases at Uppsala University, says he is deeply surprised.
- This is obscene and offensive. A senior expert at a government must have a high degree of involvement. He should absolutely declare that he has great interests in private companies where he can raise profits himself. The fact that the wife sits on the board of a company that treats patients with covid-19 is delicate so it swish about it. This is a flagrant over-ramp.
He thinks that Johan Giesecke should of course have reported conflicts of interest also in the Lancet article.
- This is contrary to all scientific honesty and integrity. He is paid for by the Public Health Authority and has financial interests that are in strong conflict with what he says. The Lancet, which is one of the finest medical journals, risks being neglected.
Johan Giesecke has had a great influence over the actions of the Public Health Authority, according to Björn Olsen.
- He assumes that it behaves like the flu where you get herd immunity pretty quickly. But he is completely wrong. This is a coronavirus that spreads in clusters, it doesn't behave like the flu virus, Olsén says.
Jan Lötvall, professor of clinical allergy and chief physician at the Sahlgrenska University Hospital in Gothenburg, is one of the 22 critical researchers who questioned the National Health Authority's corona strategy.
- Giesecke has trivialized the infection, he says.
Jan Lötvall thinks that it is important that government experts and researchers openly report on conflicts of interest and ties to companies, organizations or individuals.
- It is important to report whether you have links to companies, financial interests or other commitments.
He thinks it is wrong that Johan Giesecke did not state it.
- Even if you are just a little involved, you should tell it. If it is not made to the Lancet it is against publication ethical principles.
Virologist Åke Gustafsson, former chief physician and head of microbiology and health care in Uppsala and Gävleborg, is also critical of Sweden's corona strategy. In a debate article at GP in early June, he and seventeen other doctors and researchers demand powerful efforts such as extended testing, better infection detection and increased use of mouthguards.
Åke Gustafsson also thinks that the behavior of the former state epidemiologist is serious.
- Johan Giesecke has had a very high profile, is a heavy player and has influenced public opinion. A person in such a position must not end up in situations where the motives can be called into question.
"It should have appeared"
You have to be clear about declaring disputes, any personal gain or other connections that can be problematic, says Åke Gustafsson.
The Lancet, like other scientific journals, has rules that researchers must declare any conflicts of interest, for example if they receive money from pharmaceutical companies.
- You must not overlook that. For example, it should be stated in The Lancet that he is paid by the Public Health Authority. This allows the reader to form his own view, says Åke Gustafsson.
Johan Giesecke does not want to answer Expressen's questions about why he has not taken up the consultancy job at the Public Health Authority or his other interests in The Lancet.
- No comment. But that is done with the Lancet, it is overplayed. They had received notifications and I have explained how it was and now it is written off, he says.
Jessica Kleyn at The Lancet's press department writes in an e-mail to Expressen that the newspaper has no comments regarding Johan Giesecke.

Looks like Giesecke's fanbase may continue to dwindle down to NHA cultists, Belarussian TV and non Swedish speaking foreigners

Look at all that promised herd immunity... 14% of Stockholmers have developed anti bodies (note that the mass test mostly focused on people who work in the health care system who run a higher risk of being exposed to Corona) http://archive.md/wip/VkRlM

Antibodies in one of seven tested in Stockholm

Every seventh person in Stockholm who has been tested has developed antibodies which can give immunity to covid-19. It shows the results of one of the largest mass tests that have been done and will be presented on Wednesday.

The tests have been performed between week 18 and week 24 - until June 14 - and include people who are 18 or older and show whether the person had a covid-19 infection and then developed antibodies. Those who have taken the test were asked to be free of symptoms for the last 14 days before taking it and it is a mixture of people who had symptoms and those who did not notice that they were sick.

- A large group did not have any symptoms but still tested themselves. We have also tested 14,000 people at various companies where there were both infected and healthy. The result is a description of what we have found among the 50,000 people we have sampled, says Henrik Forsberg, CEO of Werlabs, which is responsible for testing.

The analyzes show that 14 percent, or one in seven people, of those sampled in Stockholm have developed antibodies. The Public Health Authority has previously said that it was hoped that the level would be 20 percent as early as May, given the spread of viruses.

In Gothenburg, the figure is 11.5 percent and in Malmö 5 percent.

According to state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, this means that the figures reflect the situation about a month ago:

- It takes a couple of weeks to develop antibodies from getting sick so the figure is actually much higher today. We are working on this and given that we have a doubling time of the number of cases in about ten days, it should be a little over 20 percent. But we have to count on that well, says Tegnell.

According to Anders Tegnell, 14 percent is also a fairly high figure compared to other countries in the world where measurements have been made. In Norway and Finland, the figure is between one and two percent.

- Most other countries are on single-digit numbers. It is pretty good that Sweden has come further in the pandemic. London is also at this level and the British epidemic is quite similar to ours.

Looking at the whole of Sweden, the figures show that more people in the group 18–29 years than those who are older have developed antibodies. There, 14 per cent have been found to have antibodies, while others from 30 years and up are between 9 and 12 per cent.

- That difference may depend on who has chosen to take the test, it is not a scientific selection, says Werlab's CEO Henrik Forsberg.

36,000 of the samples were taken by venous blood samples and 14,000 by capillary blood samples. None of the tests have been quick tests. All samples were taken by trained nurses.

On May 20, the Public Health Authority published the first results of how much of the population in Stockholm carries antibodies. It showed a low 7.3 percent. In Skåne and Västra Götaland, the figures were even lower, 4.2 and 3.7 percent respectively. So these numbers appear to be increasing.

In a week, Werlabs estimates that an additional 20,000 samples have been analyzed.

- 50,000 tested provides a good statistical basis for the whole group and the figures are quite in line with how we see that the incidence has been and they feel reasonable even compared to other studies, says Karin Tegmark Wisell, Head of the Public Health Authority.

- Our figures also differ between Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. The number of iva-cared for is the most stable figure, and Stockholm has the highest and Gothenburg has more than Malmö. The differences that can be seen when it comes to age groups and workplaces can depend, among other things, on the contacts you have in your work, as they are transmitted through contact infections primarily.

However, Karin Tegmark Wisell warns to draw some big conclusions regarding the exact figures for the three big cities. The number of people who took the test differs too much.

37,000 of those who took Werlab's test did so in Stockholm, 10,000 in Gothenburg and 1,500 in Malmö.

- Based on the number of tests performed in the different regions, the statistical certainty in the specified percentages is higher for Stockholm, than for Gothenburg and lowest for Malmö.

Karin Tegmark Wisell says it is obvious that you need to look more at specific groups to get an even better idea of what the infection looks like in society. This is because the infection is spread in clusters by an infectious person in his social life, in the common household or in a workplace.

"We see this kind of cluster infection more and more," she says.

On Thursday, the Public Health Agency also comes up with new figures on how many Swedes carry antibodies. The Authority's study is considerably smaller than the one conducted by Werlabs, but also contains children.

The results so far show that 6.1 percent of those tested in outpatient care for a disease other than covid-19 on May 15 had antibodies after undergoing covid-19. But that figure is likely to change when the new results are presented on Thursday.

During the period from April 20 to May 31, the Public Health Authority collected 1,600 samples from blood donor centers and then another almost as many from outpatient care.

- A group that is normally representative of the population, but probably not this spring, according to Karin Tegmark Wisell.

Children up to the age of 19 are the group where the largest proportion, 7.5 percent, has antibodies according to figures from the Public Health Authority. According to Karin Tegmark Wisell, the group consists mainly of healthy young people who do allergy investigations and thus give a better reflection of the population.

A smaller study that has targeted Stockholm, Skåne and Umeå shows the same tendency. Of 1,071 tested, 10.1 per cent were found to have recently undergone infection or have an ongoing infection, in some cases without developing immunity.

- We will continue to take samples on those who want to, says Henrik Kangro, medical director at Min Doktor who performed the tests.

 

[nya001]

In England they are really getting excited with dexamethasone, which is really stupid. As if nobody knew that an anti-inflammatory drug helps against inflammation.

@Ughubughughughughughghlug "Franco is a cool guy who kills communists" - actually Franco also let the Catholic Church basically run the country, so let's remember what it meant: no condoms, no anticonception, some languages were forbidden (say Catalan) and lots of nasty things.

@Mayor David Holt:

"From March 15-May 31, only 30 percent of all cases in Oklahoma County were diagnosed in people below the age of 35. In June, however, 55 percent of all cases have been diagnosed among people below the age of 35. And 45 percent of all June cases are specifically in the age demographic of 18-35.

So, my message remains the same to people of all ages - wash your hands, maintain your distance and wear your masks in public situations where social distancing is difficult"

Washing the hands is nice. The WHO recommends not wearing a mask if you are not sick. See the detailed WHO guidance. Wearing a mask causes many nasty side effects.

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

I'm copying the side effects at the end of the post but they are in the text I just quoted.

Quick tests are notoriously inaccurate.

Having antibodies doesn't mean immunity, says the WHO, it just means someone was in contact with the virus.

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Young people may carry the virus but they won't get sick from it and are unlikely to transmit it.

Someone testing positive, even from a current active virus doesn't mean they will get sick from it.

Let's remember that 95% of the people who had the virus had little or no symptoms and most people who got sick were old. Also when they say people "tested positive" what do they mean? Past or current infection?

@ATaxingWoman: but of course people are making millions from fear - consider the same masks sold for 0.40 euro in the EU country Poland are sold in the EU country Germany for 4.99 (exactly the same, from the same box that contains 100 masks). OK, somebody finds out, but they get to keep the millions they made and will lead a nice life, it's not corruption, it was for "public health".

===

The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include: • potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49) • potential self-contamination that can occur if nonmedical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify; • potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used; • potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;(50) • difficulty with communicating clearly; • potential discomfort;(41, 51) • a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene; • poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children; • waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard; • difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading; • disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

@Ughubughughughughughghlug "Franco is a cool guy who kills communists" - actually Franco also let the Catholic Church basically run the country, so let's remember what it meant: no condoms, no anticonception, some languages were forbidden (say Catalan) and lots of nasty things.

Considering that Spain has one of the worst birthrates in the world (necessitating the importation of millions of migrants) and the Catalan are a bunch of cunts, I don't know what you're complaining about here.

 

[Stoneheart]

@EmuWarsVeteran im doing my part of keeping your country alive... a week menorca all inclusive for 400€ was just to good to not book. lets hope you dont get a 2nd wave before mid of august...

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

@EmuWarsVeteran im doing my part of keeping your country alive... a week menorca all inclusive for 400€ was just to good to not book. lets hope you dont get a 2nd wave before mid of august...

Brings a tear to my eye. Don't worty, it seems we have enough testing and expanded primary. Should be safe.

 

[Simpadoo]

I don't even know if you're kidding here. Please tell me you're kidding.

As I mentioned in other posts, it's not even like Spain doesn't have dictators which actually had a better reputation, Primo de Rivera was really well loved at the time and most critique only came after the fact. But Franco? Even the actual original conspirators hated the guy, they only followed him because the british secret service forced them to, the army hated him, they actually tried to coup him but he sent the conspirators to the blue division and Hitler stopped them. Again, only reason he got where he did was because he sold Gibraltar to the british, morocco to the french, a shitton of production and manpower to the german and multiple bases to the USA so every fucking foreign power was backing him.

He was really stupid to boot btw, his mismanagement of shit like Doñana, the hydroelectrics to the north, etc. Is LEGENDARY. Fucker wasn't just pure evil, which he also was, he was a fucking idiot too. Forget comparisons with Hitler, he looks bad even when compared with MUSSOLINNI! Like literally, the army literally said he was just a bad copy of Primo de Rivera. Just think about that, not even his generals could stand the guy for the most part. Echoing a lot of what Hitler said in his letters, which in case you didn't notice started with the term "INSUFERABLE." He was a petty, egotistical, greedy, corrupt, dumb as bricks little man. Literally the worst person to be in his place. But with foreign pressure backing him and spreading rumors of how spain would collapse into communism if he wasn't in power, well, can't do shit to take him out.

He certainly was a totalitarian regime, or at least as totalitarian as he could be 'cause he sure as shit didn't manage to stop the strikes despite trying to persecute them with actual kidnappings, murders, concentration camps and machineguns. (Terror Blanco, look it up.) Which again, in big part was because, well to begin with the "greys", which nowadays are the national police, at the time were his fucking anti-strike corps, were the remnants of the "guardia de asalto", the republican police force, so while a lot of the... newer higher ups were absolutely abhorrent (billy el niño, look it up), the lower ranks in many areas did everything they could to turn a blind eye to their orders. So again. Literally no one liked the guy, we only stood him because we had to, because the USA, UK and French secret services propped him up, and turned a blind eye to his concentration camps, mass slaughter, and collective graves. Kinda fucking hard to go against agents of all of those countries at once during WW2 and the cold war you know.

Good performance metrics are 1)killing communists and 2)improving the economy.

A lot of shit dumped on a man who did both. High IQ is not always a good thing in leaders (ie Woodrow Wilson). Did he not do #2 though?

Was Pinochet like Franco? It seems he saved Chile looking at how it went to shit once he stepped down.

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

Good performance metrics are 1)killing communists and 2)improving the economy.

A lot of shit dumped on a man who did both. High IQ is not always a good thing in leaders (ie Woodrow Wilson). Did he not do #2 though?

Was Pinochet like Franco? It seems he saved Chile looking at how it went to shit once he stepped down.

He did not do either, actually. Not efficiently anyway. Do remember that the commies tried to coup the Republic before the nationalists did. Only reason the republicans even made concessions to the commies was because every other foreign power took Franco's side until they saw what was happening, too damned late. And Franco signed a deal with the commies letting them, and the rest of republicans still fighting, go. The victims of the Terror Blanco were mostly a mix of Democrats and just straight up people who got caught in the middle. As I said on prior post. One of the biggest groups were soldiers who had in the past fought for franco but got labeled as republicans because they got captured. Those sure as shit weren't commies.

As for the economy. Yet again, Spanish economy was actually booming under the 2nd republic, which admittedly was mostly due to not taking part in ww1. But once Franco came? His mismanagement of the hydroelectrics is still a huge issue to this day as it destroyed the electrical grid, industrial production plummeted to half, exports and imports both disappeared alltogether as his political ineptitude got our frontiers closed. His destruction of natural heritage, both cultural and natural is literally impossible to fix. And spain has literally never since his fuckup managed to economically recover. We don't even know whay having an unemployment rate under 8% is anymore. And that 8% was only achieved during the bubble of aznar, most years its closer to 12. Does that sound to you like the economy got fixed in any way? The commies were doing a better job ffs!

Again, I must repeat. He was literally the worst totalitarian leader we've ever had. And that includes both the Hasburgs and the Borbon. So you know, it's a really hardly contested award.

In England they are really getting excited with dexamethasone, which is really stupid. As if nobody knew that an anti-inflammatory drug helps against inflammation. @Ughubughughughughughghlug "Franco is a cool guy who kills communists" - actually Franco also let the Catholic Church basically run the country, so let's remember what it meant: no condoms, no anticonception, some languages were forbidden (say Catalan) and lots of nasty things. @Mayor David Holt: "From March 15-May 31, only 30 percent of all cases in Oklahoma County were diagnosed in people below the age of 35. In June, however, 55 percent of all cases have been diagnosed among people below the age of 35. And 45 percent of all June cases are specifically in the age demographic of 18-35. So, my message remains the same to people of all ages - wash your hands, maintain your distance and wear your masks in public situations where social distancing is difficult" Washing the hands is nice. The WHO recommends not wearing a mask if you are not sick. See the detailed WHO guidance. Wearing a mask causes many nasty side effects.

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak

I'm copying the side effects at the end of the post but they are in the text I just quoted. Quick tests are notoriously inaccurate. Having antibodies doesn't mean immunity, says the WHO, it just means someone was in contact with the virus.

https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19

Young people may carry the virus but they won't get sick from it and are unlikely to transmit it. Someone testing positive, even from a current active virus doesn't mean they will get sick from it. Let's remember that 95% of the people who had the virus had little or no symptoms and most people who got sick were old. Also when they say people "tested positive" what do they mean? Past or current infection? @ATaxingWoman: but of course people are making millions from fear - consider the same masks sold for 0.40 euro in the EU country Poland are sold in the EU country Germany for 4.99 (exactly the same, from the same box that contains 100 masks). OK, somebody finds out, but they get to keep the millions they made and will lead a nice life, it's not corruption, it was for "public health". === The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include: • potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;(48, 49) • potential self-contamination that can occur if nonmedical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify; • potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used; • potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;(50) • difficulty with communicating clearly; • potential discomfort;(41, 51) • a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene; • poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children; • waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard; • difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading; • disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

Oh also that's a whole other deal. Franco also had 3 different groups under his belt. The Falangists, the Carlists and the Catholics. They were what got him to power, so he just let them rule different chunks as they pleased by virtue of who was bitching the loudest while trying to hide this mess from his foreign allies.

The result was an absolute clusterfuck of nepotism, infighting and regionalism. Fucking imagine that, a fascist dictator that can't even keep his own higherups united.

Again. I do hate fascism on principle. But I can measure levels of success and absolutely will see the good in some forms of it. But franco? It's not just the fact that he was a fascist. It's not just the fact that unlike other dictators he just wanted power and didn't have any real pretense of morality. I hate him more than anything because HE WAS REALLY FUCKING BAD AT IT.

 

[Silence of the Troons]

It's over 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000! http://archive.md/wip/WExrn

Over 5,000 dead in covid-19

An additional 102 people have been registered as deceased in covid-19 during the past 24 hours, according to the latest figures from the Public Health Authority.

This means that a total of 5,041 people have been reported as deceased in covid-19 in Sweden.

A total of 2,322 people in Sweden have so far needed intensive care for covid-19. During Wednesday, 218 people were intensive care for covid-19 in Sweden, the lowest figure since at least March 30.

This is a reduction of 72 patients in one week. Most patients with covid-19 were treated in Swedish intensive care in late April when over 550 IVA sites were occupied by covid-19 patients for a few days. Since then, the number of corona patients in Swedish intensive care has gradually decreased.

By contrast, the number of confirmed cases of covid-19 in Sweden is increasing and on Wednesday, a total of 54,562 cases of illness were confirmed. However, this explains the Public Health Authority that the testing has greatly increased.

- Unfortunately, it has been interpreted in international media as having a new upswing and not reaching a peak. It's totally wrong. There is no indication that we have any new peak going. This is reflected in the number of deaths, the average is down to 38 dead per day, which is the lowest number we have had in a long time, said Anders Tegnell, state epidemiologist at the Public Health Authority, during a press conference on Tuesday.

 

[AmpleApricots]

It's over 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000! http://archive.md/wip/WExrn

Also they don't want to remove their travel warning for Germany because we don't remove our travel warning for them. (yes, this is literally their justification) I don't know how we'll ever recover.

Sweden Yes!

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

Also they don't want to remove their travel warning for Germany because we don't remove our travel warning for them. (yes, this is literally their justification) I don't know how we'll ever recover.

Sweden Yes!

The level of pettyness of some countries about the fucking warnings is off the charts. I am so glad at least I live in a country that's capable of admiting "Yeah reason we're running adds telling you to go for tourism to other parts of spain instead of going outside this year is we got a real big hole where the economy's meant to go so if you could spend your moneys back home that'd be great. Plus, I mean, just look at these nice pictures. This is spain. We got a lot of shit to watch, man, I'm sure you haven't seen all of it yet." Instead of trying to hide that they wanna foster internal tourism by using shitty excuses. Like... come on, man, at least be honest. The truth goes a long way.

 

[The golden neckbeard]

That's a pure sign of TDS. It's the only reason anyone could be anti-chloroquine so adamantly.

They know it works...for the same reason Fauci lied about masks in March...they lie about this. Politicians and healthcare workers need the HCQ first.

World leaders are all taking it. They do not want a run on supplies. So yes they are willing to go on TV and straight up lie to your face to protect their supplies...just like masks.

 

[CDWLTY]

The level of pettyness of some countries about the fucking warnings is off the charts. I am so glad at least I live in a country that's capable of admiting "Yeah reason we're running adds telling you to go for tourism to other parts of spain instead of going outside this year is we got a real big hole where the economy's meant to go so if you could spend your moneys back home that'd be great. Plus, I mean, just look at these nice pictures. This is spain. We got a lot of shit to watch, man, I'm sure you haven't seen all of it yet." Instead of trying to hide that they wanna foster internal tourism by using shitty excuses. Like... come on, man, at least be honest. The truth goes a long way.

For real, honest advertising would have gone so much further. Imagine if they said a few months ago "Hey, we went as hard as we could to cut costs and toss out expired equipment, but we didn't wanna spend money storing useless medical shit to constantly throw away and replace, so we have zero masks because we assumed everything would be fine. Can y'all not buy masks for a while so we can stock up? Sorry!"

 

[EmuWarsVeteran]

They know it works...for the same reason Fauci lied about masks in March...they lie about this. Politicians and healthcare workers need the HCQ first.

World leaders are all taking it. They do not want a run on supplies. So yes they are willing to go on TV and straight up lie to your face to protect their supplies...just like masks.

Nah. HCQ does have some fairly large side effects. It is also effective. Generally spanish hospitals have just put it on the list of shit to use if safe for the patient on severe cases, but it's by no means the first on the list and it's certainly not something you can take for long periods of time like that. Also taking antibiotics in a preventative fashion is darwin award level lunacy and practically begging to get fucked by an antibiotic resistant strand.

This really is just a case of TDS. HQC could've saved many lives if used 'cause it IS a valid treatment, and the times it was used over here show as much. But it isn't clear black and white. To begin with most infections just don't even get a treatment 'cause if you only got a mild case the side effects will always be worse than just giving you an antiinflamatory and telling you to man the fuck up. Treatments are only given to severe cases. It's not a binary issue.

Also ultralol if you think healthcare personnel are getting preferential treatment. I caught wind some days ago that at peak wuflu one of the hospitals in granada had to isolate so many of their nurses that they just stopped doing tests until they could cover the shifts anymore. Healthcare personnel have gotten repeatedly assfucked by this shit and no one gave them crap. In some countries they even prioritized masks for the cops... god I'm glad spanish cops behaved and took it like men.

 

[CDWLTY]

Nah. HCQ does have some fairly large side effects. It is also effective. Generally spanish hospitals have just put it on the list of shit to use if safe for the patient on severe cases, but it's by no means the first on the list and it's certainly not something you can take for long periods of time like that. Also taking antibiotics in a preventative fashion is darwin award level lunacy and practically begging to get fucked by an antibiotic resistant strand.

This really is just a case of TDS. HQC could've saved many lives if used 'cause it IS a valid treatment, and the times it was used over here show as much. But it isn't clear black and white. To begin with most infections just don't even get a treatment 'cause if you only got a mild case the side effects will always be worse than just giving you an antiinflamatory and telling you to man the fuck up. Treatments are only given to severe cases. It's not a binary issue.

Also ultralol if you think healthcare personnel are getting preferential treatment. I caught wind some days ago that at peak wuflu one of the hospitals in granada had to isolate so many of their nurses that they just stopped doing tests until they could cover the shifts anymore. Healthcare personnel have gotten repeatedly assfucked by this shit and no one gave them crap. In some countries they even prioritized masks for the cops... god I'm glad spanish cops behaved and took it like men.

Isn't it plaquenil? I remember some patients hated it because they had vision tests, supposedly if you weren't checking you'd lose peripheral view without even noticing. One day you'd realize you're seeing everything thru toilet paper tubes. Lots of old folks seemed to blow it off.

Everyone I've spoken to in medicine is hating life, routinely told, even after repeated exposure, presenting symptoms, that they can't take off until they know the shift is done. It could well ruin a hospital to be severely short handed and no one would ever come back. It's too bad, most of the people I worked on could use a quick way to shuffle on out of life. Pretty much everyone in the west over 65 is held together with arcane, dark magic and zombie science.