The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

The best possible ending would have been to end Ellies story as she is sitting on the tractor looking into the distance, and then to end Abby's story right after she gets off the radio with (Maybe) the firefly. That ending despite being held down by a horribly written plot would have at least given was all narrative endings need; closure. It leaves some ambiguity like did Ellie and Jew Nose live happily ever after on the farm or get raided by canibals a week later? We don't need to know that. Was it really the firefly or just some cult using a radio to find victims? We don't need to know that.

And the reason Cuckmann went this direction is that he stole the ending to Red Dead Redemption part and parcel. He just had to subvert expectations, but the problem is he subverted every aspect of the plot to such an absurd level that the plot has no legs. The whole point of subverting expectations is building those expectations up. There is not a single plot point in this entire train wreck that builds to a mature enough level to be subverted full fucking stop. It starts by setting up the plot point that Joel and Ellie are kinda having some relationship issues in the beginning but instead of exploring that and letting the audience get caught up in the drama of that NOPE JOEL IS DEAD BECAUSE A TROON WE RETCONNED BEATS HIM TO DEATH.

Then you have a brief moment where Ellie is dealing with her grief and trying to organize a posse to chase down the group responsible, and the game literally has dialogue which spells out what should happen with the adults in the room, where Tommy flat out says "hey Ellie is in a bad headspace, lock her up if you have to but don't let her go", and since this is a "stealth-lite" game you could have this play out in the gameplay by having Ellie and Jew nose have to escape their own community, but no, this is Neil Cuckmann's Citizen Kane movie drama, so they are just going to move the plot for you rather than have you participate.

Then for a brief moment after this it almost because a video game, the linear nature of the game loosens its grip a bit, it lets you actually roam around the world a bit and explore at your own discretion with just a vague goal in mind. But this is short lived and soon you are psycopathically murdering dogs and people in droves and it moves into another stolen plot device from RDR among other titles, killing your way up the hierarchy one lackey at a time. All along the way, but especially with Nora, the narrative is absolutely destroying any empathy the audience can have with Ellie, in such a way that is seems absolutely deliberate that her character is being assassinated with every single narrative moresel. Cuckmann needs you to hate her, subverted expectations, you expected to like the character from the first game. But you cant, you must be subverted, so he killed one and destroyed the other.

Jump to the second half of the game, we play as a character that we immediately hate because she literally beats the original main protagonist to death in front of the fan favorite supporting character, and right before you play as it, it kills yet another character that was only just starting to be developed in the plot. Then it tries to go for the "we are all human beings" trope desperately trying to humanize the characters you just beat to death, which over half of were actually innocent bystanders narativly speaking (Mel and Owen are the only reason Ellie and Tommy are left alive) while the other half are just as big of pieces of shit as Abby (spic and white trash tokens), and it just does not work. Maybe if you had saved Joels death for later in the game, and started the game off from Abby's perspective, maybe then this trope would have functioned properly in the narrative, but you cant literally beat the fan favorite protagonist to death in the first hour and then suddenly become a "misunderstood antagonist" 12 hours later.

As a matter of fact that's the only way the plot works, is if you started the game playing as Abby starting where the midgame picks up with her and playing through the days of Seattle from her perspective. It should be left ambiguous what "mission" they just finished, and she should have the nightmare flashbacks and young Abby flashbacks about her dad, with the one that actually shows who he is being left for the point right after she finds Owen and Mel, and right before she enters the theatre. Then after she says her line about "we let you live" it should flash back to her beginning in the original beginning and finish how it did. That way Joel's death is 12 or so hours in and actually has some build to it. You get to know Abby and her friends before you hate them, and before you hunt them down as Ellie. This adds even more weight to Ellies narrative.

And then after this, it ends exactly how I laid it out above, Ellie and Jewna raise their black baby on a sheep farm and Abby goes and maybe rejoins the firefly. Fade to black, cut to credits.
I’m not sure how Drukmann stole RDR’s ending. There isn’t some sort of last, hopeless quickdraw against more people than you can possibly hit, and Jack doesn’t find Edgar Ross crucified in Mexico. I agree that that game (and 2) are the primary examples of good tragic writting in games though. At least the Housers putting everyone at Rockstar through a meatgrinder gets good results. We clearly can’t say that about ND at this point.
 
TLOU2 is objectively a bad game. You can like the game, even love it, but from an objective standpoint it's bad. Its storytelling fails, its characterization is awful and the gameplay holding the whole together is shit. Everything positive I've heard about it, even from the most ardent, is either about the most superficial elements or subjective shit like theming. They are making the argument that this is legitimately good content.

The good news is that as obnoxious as the TLOU2 defenders are now, they will come around given time. You can't keep the wool over people's eyes forever, and hindsight is 20/20.

Once they do, potentially years from now, the general view on TLOU2 will be "the one that killed the franchise."
 
Especially given how Ellie has just murdered tons of people already, many of which were women who could've been in the early stages of pregnancy themselves. But no, this is what makes her breakdown.

On another note, been watching streamers play through the game. I gotta say, this game looks unbelievably boring. Like, there's almost no sense of pacing or rhythm to anything, and it's padded out to an insane degree with tons of areas where you do absolutely nothing other than walk through samey looking buildings gathering the same types of resources. It literally feels like the first game with nothing new added aside from the ability to jump like a half inch.

And this is what passes for a 10/10 nowadays?

So the same problems of Uncharted 4 but raised to the 11?
Yeah,that and not keeping a decent suspension of disbelief seems to be Druckmann trademark
 
Remember when the biggest popular video games were all about fun? Stuff like Mario never went out of style, but what about Contra? Mega Man? Viewtiful Joe? Gradius? I'm not opposed to story or meaning in video games, but the FUN needs to be there. That arcade style challenge, try something and fail try again and succeed, learn the patterns, get the high score, master the combo timings, figure out the best strategy to win. Video game FUN. These fucking hipster douches with their GAMES ARE ART bullshit... Games were already art. Super Mario Bros. 3 is ART. Sin and Punishment 2 is ART. Starcraft Brood War is ART. The Last of Us: Now With More Lesbians and Maudlin Guitar Playing Scenes is a B movie pretending to be deep and important.

TL.d:R fuck off Druckmann, your definition of art is incompatible with mine.
 
One of the worst parts of Part 2 is that it does remind you of what it took from you. Its aware that it could have been all about this but it yanks it away right when we were feeling it with the tip of our fingertips. Its PROUD of not giving what you wanted. You wanted more Joel and Ellen, them both working together, travelling together, talking together, well, not only we wont give it to you but trick you that you will have it...then offer tiny glimpses just so you know what you we could have given it to you.

We just choose not to
It's impressive how utterly vindctive Cuckmann was in the writing of this. I didn't play the first game, but I saw a longplay and by far the dynamic between Joel and Ellie is what set the game apart. The sequel just does its best to revel in how it stripped that away from you at every twist and turn. What is Ellie without someone that's older and wiser to bounce off of?
 
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rewatching pewd's stream part 3 in Seattle and at one point you get to walk into a music store and Ellie plays an acoustic(actually pleasant) version of Aha's "Take On Me" in game; after singing along, Felix just realizes out loud "Thanks for the copystrike Last Of Us." :story: This game is engineered on every level, in every facet, to fuck you over as a player. As a streamer. As a content creator. It really is impressively meta.

Timestamped for your consumption(12:33 in):


Do you really think they did that on purpose?

Remember when the biggest popular video games were all about fun? Stuff like Mario never went out of style, but what about Contra? Mega Man? Viewtiful Joe? Gradius? I'm not opposed to story or meaning in video games, but the FUN needs to be there. That arcade style challenge, try something and fail try again and succeed, learn the patterns, get the high score, master the combo timings, figure out the best strategy to win. Video game FUN. These fucking hipster douches with their GAMES ARE ART bullshit... Games were already art. Super Mario Bros. 3 is ART. Sin and Punishment 2 is ART. Starcraft Brood War is ART. The Last of Us: Now With More Lesbians and Maudlin Guitar Playing Scenes is a B movie pretending to be deep and important.

TL.d:R fuck off Druckmann, your definition of art is incompatible with mine.

Even something like Silent Hill 2, which is an artistic masterpiece, is still fun, the horror element is fun, Last of Us 2 doesn't seem to lean into the horror game element much at all.
 
It's impressive how utterly vindctive Cuckmann was in the writing of this. I didn't play the game, but I saw a longplay and by far the dynamic between Joel and Ellie is what set the game apart. The sequel just does its best to revel in how it stripped that away from you at every twist and turn. What is Ellie without someone that's older and wiser to bounce off of?

He also did that thing SJWs love to do. People vehemently despise this game and he's like "I'm glad youre passionate about this game" Thats like saying a train wreck that kills 200 people is a good thing because "At least the victim's families are passionate" No, asshole! You Abby ass-fucked your franchise, mind you this is AFTER lying in the advertisement using key characters from the previous game to sell this monstrosity, when he dies very early on. Then, when somebody got the word out they financially punished people for even mentioning the spoilers -which is against the fucking law.

DMCA has a clause about "good faith" they abused it to take down commentary on a consumer product. Everyone involved in this trash heap can get fucked. And may the leaker be forever sanctified, for I did NOT spend 60 dollars this day.
 
Even something like Silent Hill 2, which is an artistic masterpiece, is still fun, the horror element is fun, Last of Us 2 doesn't seem to lean into the horror game element much at all.
I've never been a Silent Hill guy, but from what I've seen of the series and from what I've played of other games in the genre tells me it is also ART. Resource management, fear of death (realized in game by loss of progress since your last save), and the story and themes of the first two Silent Hill games are deeper than anything these soyboy fucks could ever conceive.
 
To summarize, TLOU2 is just this comic...
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...and a gay porn scene performed by two straight bodybuilders who were told Neill Druckmann will kill their mothers if they don't fuck.
 
RDR2 has a lot of issues due to being open world and also apparently cutting out complete sections wholesale weeks before launch. IIRC just recently it was discovered that the possible 2nd love interest cut weeks before release was the mother of Authors dead son based on data found in the PC files which blows my mind considering in the final release shes only mentioned in an optional dialogue in an optional mission and is said to have been long dead at that, and this seemingly last minute change is a highly defining character trait of Arthur.

It seems clear to me that the game had multiple re writes and reshoots up to the release so the fact it's as coherent as it is is a miracle honestly.

Do you know the difference though?

The big, BIG difference?

Dan Houser's competent. As are the other two writers, Micheal Unsworth and Rupert Humphries. They likely built things in certain ways so things could be cut or moved around without fucking things up.

End of the day, RDR 2's a spaghetti Western, doesn't apologise for it, and doesn't rub in your face how fucking clever it's trying to be. It's a relatively dumb story told very very well.
 
The faggots at Tv Tropes do not disappoint.
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Nothing less than Citizen Kane-quality, guys.

I swear none of these fucks have ever seen Citizen Kane. They use "un-flinching" to describe a movie that is told through several unreliable narrators. And how is a film with a hooker party, fake safari in the everglades and a THOT opera signer anything like this game?
 
A few more gems from TV Tropes forums (though granted, it is mainly just this one user):


"Some people like stories of survival and the brutality of revenge stories. People keep asking for who this story is for and I'm assuming it's the same people who like the remake of True Grit and Unforgiven."

This game is nothing like Unforgiven. If it were to follow the revenge plot of that film they would need for Joel to be the Munny character, this grizzled old man who's tired of all the fighting and just wanting to settle down and teach Ellie farming or something, but then he just needs to do this one last thing that gets introduced in the prologue. Ellie would be the Schofield Kid who is angry and eager to get bloodied but in reality she just has irrational guilt over not saving humanity through her death (sketchy as that was). Tommy fits the Ned role fine and off you go.

About 2/3 into the game Tommy is killed (or even Ellie if you want to be real grim about it, but they won't kill the lesbian) and Joel snaps, goes against all he's preached and strived for the entire game so far, to the point of estranging himself from his companions. The game ends with Joel at the farm they all started at, alone.
There that is The Last of the Unforgiven 2.
 
Amazon's got different best sellers based on region. Like Amazon.au, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.sg, etc. From what I can tell, it's the top selling game item in most regions. The lowest I could find were Amazon.com where it was fourth and Amazon Japan where it was third.

I was pretty surprised to see that the game was the top seller in regions like Mexico, India, and Brazil tbh. I thought the culture over there was pretty conservative.
The people who have the money to buy video games are going to be general richer, thus more educated and thus more Westernized that the typical person on those countries (all of which have massive inequality, much larger than even the USA), so it's not surprising.
 
After taking a long hike through the release hype...I don't really have anything much to add. Except, really, that I think a game can be artistic. It can be a window to another world, and that world can be anything you want it to be. What's happened over the past few years is that we have also opened a window to the soul of liberal/SJW types, who were blackpilled by Trump's election and have proceeded to shit on anything percieved as good (or at least associated with white males) afterwards with renewed venom. My theory on their state of mind is that if they're not happy, we can't be happy either. TLOU2 took 7 years to make; I wonder if anything changed during the production after fall of 2016. Wouldn't be surprised one bit if Neil jumped off the deep end at that point.

That being said, if you're looking for a game that I personally consider to be art, I humbly recommend Hylics 2. It's the kind of sequel where there's more of everything there was in the first game and it's better, and probably has some of the most unique animation in gaming today (being, basically, a combination of claymation and video filters). Is it surrealistic and weird? Sure. But it's also creative and unique in its presentation, and is the work of 1 guy - who in my opinion deserves the money for the work he's done.

It comes out in 2 days (EDIT: It's out now!) and I couldn't be more excited. Hopefully some people might give it a chance instead of TLOU2.
 
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