Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

Pretty cool stream. It's sometimes to good to step back from the legal-heavy analysis (e.g. Rackets) and go for more the social and community angle.

Did have a observation/question for an angle @spirit of e m o s h went with. I might (and probably do) have it wrong.

If I understand, he was attacking the angle of "personal truth" (whatever the fuck that is). Monica's personal truth is Vic assaulted her. Vic's personal truth is that there was no assault and it was all consensual. Since they both have their personal truths they cancel each other out. Emosh then points out the difficulty because Vic is suing for his personal truth.

I disagree. If Monica were to sue Vic for personal injurty arising from her personal-truth-assault, that would be hypocritical. On the other hand, if Vic sues for defamation, he wouldn't be a hypocrite, since Vic doesn't subscribe to that philosophy. He's just like a normal person who believe that truth is, well, the truth, no personal subjectiveness about it. Vic believes the objective truth that there was no assault, and took Monica to court when she says the interaction was assault.

Give me those puzzle pieces.

EDIT: lmao apparently Ryo Horikawa is a fun drunk. One time he took @EriMin on an adventure exploring the hotel corridors.
 
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OneHandClapping said:
Pretty cool stream. It's sometimes to good to step back from the legal-heavy analysis (e.g. Rackets) and go for more the social and community angle.

Did have a observation/question for an angle @spirit of e m o s h went with. I might (and probably do) have it wrong.

If I understand, he was attacking the angle of "personal truth" (whatever the fuck that is). Monica's personal truth is Vic assaulted her. Vic's personal truth is that there was no assault and it was all consensual. Since they both have their personal truths they cancel each other out. Emosh then points out the difficulty because Vic is suing for his personal truth.

I disagree. If Monica were to sue Vic for personal injurty arising from her personal-truth-assault, that would be hypocritical. On the other hand, if Vic sues for defamation, he wouldn't be a hypocrite, since Vic doesn't subscribe to that philosophy. He's just like a normal person who believe that truth is, well, the truth, no personal subjectiveness about it. Vic believes the objective truth that there was no assault, and took Monica to court when she says the interaction was assault.

Give me those puzzle pieces.
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If I remember correctly the scenario he painted was had Monica pressed charges or brought her instance with Vic to light back when it happened then she'd have to prove this happened & Vic would be in the position of defendant. I didn't want to play the theoretical game because 1) it operates based on the convenience of that situation working out in favor of your argument even though its already founded on it being an inconvenience for Monica. 2) I don't like rewriting history.

If thats the part you're referring to I think thats it.
 
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OneHandClapping said:
Pretty cool stream. It's sometimes to good to step back from the legal-heavy analysis (e.g. Rackets) and go for more the social and community angle.

Did have a observation/question for an angle @spirit of e m o s h went with. I might (and probably do) have it wrong.

If I understand, he was attacking the angle of "personal truth" (whatever the fuck that is). Monica's personal truth is Vic assaulted her. Vic's personal truth is that there was no assault and it was all consensual. Since they both have their personal truths they cancel each other out. Emosh then points out the difficulty because Vic is suing for his personal truth.

I disagree. If Monica were to sue Vic for personal injurty arising from her personal-truth-assault, that would be hypocritical. On the other hand, if Vic sues for defamation, he wouldn't be a hypocrite, since Vic doesn't subscribe to that philosophy. He's just like a normal person who believe that truth is, well, the truth, no personal subjectiveness about it. Vic believes the objective truth that there was no assault, and took Monica to court when she says the interaction was assault.

Give me those puzzle pieces.
Click to expand...

"personal truth" = relative truth.
It's a leftist philosophy in which truth is based on perception and there is no definitive truth aka The Truth.
As a result, there are no lies and only a different perception.
This muddying of the waters is used when someone refuses to accept facts (aka Definitive Truth) and admit they are wrong.
The person doubles down with MUH TRUTH.
 
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spirit of e m o s h said:
If I remember correctly the scenario he painted was had Monica pressed charges or brought her instance with Vic to light back when it happened then she'd have to prove this happened & Vic would be in the position of defendant. I didn't want to play the theoretical game because 1) it operates based on the convenience of that situation working out in favor of your argument even though its already founded on it being an inconvenience for Monica. 2) I don't like rewriting history.

If thats the part you're referring to I think thats it.
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I'd have to go through the TBH stream to find the exact wording. It was specifically about Vic suing and why you don't like talking about the lawsuit instead of the social conversation at large.
 
OneHandClapping said:
I'd have to go through the TBH stream to find the exact wording. It was specifically about Vic suing and why you don't like talking about the lawsuit instead of the social conversation at large.
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Fuck man I'm sorry. I know it just happened but I don't remember LMAO. If you find it (if it's important to you) - ping me & I'll elaborate what I mean.

EDIT - would it be easier for people if I clip parts of streams I'm on and upload them? Do any of you even give a shit? lol let me know & I'll do it.
 
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spirit of e m o s h said:
Fuck man I'm sorry. I know it just happened but I don't remember LMAO. If you find it (if it's important to you) - ping me & I'll elaborate what I mean.

EDIT - would it be easier for people if I clip parts of streams I'm on and upload them? Do any of you even give a shit? lol let me know & I'll do it.
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It's not a huge deal. If I find it I find it, if not it's whatever.
 
Dumb Bitch Smoothie said:
There is so, so much dirt in the anime con industry.
Especially from before 2009. When cons were still relatively small and everyone knew everyone. Then when the con scene grew it seemed like a lot of shit flew under the radar since it was hard to really keep track of shit.
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Before I actually started going to anime conventions, I decided to do my research and watch a few videos on what they were like. From what I could tell, there were a bunch of teenagers running around being rowdy and embarrassing themselves. Now that I think back on it, these cons were essentially a glorified day care. Because I rarely saw any parents/guardians with them at any time and I bet they don't exactly tell them what really goes down at these conventions. There were a lot of horror stories about stalkers, unwashed attendees, "photographers" taking creep shots, being glomped/groped by obese fangirls, the list goes on.
(sidenote: anime fans used to be really racist toward black cosplayers until around the 2010s where all the identity politics started seeping in the anime community, thus deciding to clean up their act)

However, one thing that stood out to me was how many female anime fans were openly creepy and proud of it. You had "fandom moms" that were often in their 20's or older giving teenage girls yaoi when they obviously weren't supposed to, then those teenage girls would show yaoi to their younger sisters and brag about it online. These fangirls were also the ones that really hated Vic and were the source of all the "credible rumors" about him being creepy towards minors. Vic telling them he was uncomfortable with signing yaoi doujins somehow made him a "major homophobe" in their eyes (they called anyone who didn't like yaoi homophobic) even though Vic himself didn't have problem with gay people to begin with. I honestly think that all of this pushing the lie of "Vic being a creep" was just to take heat off themselves. Male anime fans often stayed away from them because they would try to force them into doing "real life yaoi" with other guys. So they ended up moving on to the next best thing, impressionable girls who were often questioning their sexuality.

What bothers me to this day is that barely anyone wants to keep them in check or hold them accountable whenever they're obviously doing something fucked up. Like yaoi paddles for example: none of the convention staff established that the paddles were just a novelty item and not actually meant to be used as an actual paddle. But since the staff are mostly volunteers and the people who came to these conventions were mostly teenagers with no parental supervision...one thing lead to another and you had a bunch of dumb teenage girls running around hitting innocent bystanders with a thick, hard wooden paddle. Eventually it had to take someone being seriously injured for conventions to actually do something about it which lead to yaoi paddles being banned everywhere. Now you have fangirls trying to atone for their past and disavowing yaoi altogether, but still spreading their creepy behavior to more western fandoms.

I apologize if this was really lengthy, but this was something that was on my mind for a while.
 
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Saffronette said:
Before I actually started going to anime conventions, I decided to do my research and watch a few videos on what they were like. From what I could tell, there were a bunch of teenagers running around being rowdy and embarrassing themselves. Now that I think back on it, these cons were essentially a glorified day care. Because I rarely saw any parents/guardians with them at any time and I bet they don't exactly tell them what really goes down at these conventions. There were a lot of horror stories about stalkers, unwashed attendees, "photographers" taking creep shots, being glomped/groped by obese fangirls, the list goes on.
(sidenote: anime fans used to be really racist toward black cosplayers until around the 2010s where all the identity politics started seeping in the anime community, thus deciding to clean up their act)

However, one thing that stood out to me was how many female anime fans were openly creepy and proud of it. You had "fandom moms" that were often in their 20's or older giving teenage girls yaoi when they obviously weren't supposed to, then those teenage girls would show yaoi to their younger sisters and brag about it online. These fangirls were also the ones that really hated Vic and were the source of all the "credible rumors" about him being creepy towards minors. Vic telling them he was uncomfortable with signing yaoi doujins somehow made him a "major homophobe" in their eyes (they called anyone who didn't like yaoi homophobic) even though Vic himself didn't have problem with gay people to begin with. I honestly think that all of this pushing the lie of "Vic being a creep" was just to take heat off themselves. Male anime fans often stayed away from them because they would try to force them into doing "real life yaoi" with other guys. So they ended up moving on to the next best thing, impressionable girls who were often questioning their sexuality.

What bothers me to this day is that barely anyone wants to keep them in check or hold them accountable whenever they're obviously doing something fucked up. Like yaoi paddles for example: none of the convention staff established that the paddles were just a novelty item and not actually meant to be used as an actual paddle. But since the staff are mostly volunteers and the people who came to these conventions were mostly teenagers with no parental supervision...one thing lead to another and you had a bunch of dumb teenage girls running around hitting innocent bystanders with a thick, hard wooden paddle. Eventually it had to take someone being seriously injured for conventions to actually do something about it which lead to yaoi paddles being banned everywhere. Now you have fangirls trying to atone for their past and disavowing yaoi altogether, but still spreading their creepy behavior to more western fandoms.

I apologize if this was really lengthy, but this was something that was on my mind for a while.
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There's a whole list of people who had massive injuries from Yaoi Paddles & Glomping (which was made by Rooster Teeth)

One guy cosplaying Tamaki Suoh got paralyzed, you can even see in the comments of the post below that many got or saw taking taking straight-up battle scars & war souvenirs of their own, due to stupidity.

 
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Xenomorphs Are Cute said:
There's a whole list of people who had massive injuries from Yaoi Paddles & Glomping (which was made by Rooster Teeth)

One guy cosplaying Tamaki Suoh got paralyzed, you can even see in the comments of the post below that many got or saw taking taking straight-up battle scars & war souvenirs of their own, due to stupidity.

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I can believe someone getting smacked and being dazed from the hit.

I kinda press X that someone can suffer a spinal injury.
 
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OneHandClapping said:
I can believe someone getting smacked and being dazed from the hit.

I kinda press X that someone can suffer a spinal injury.
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1593329428700.png

I'd imagine you can kill someone with this if you hit them over the head hard enough. From what I remember, the cosplayer had the lower part of his back shattered and the person who hit him did it at full force. While running.
 
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Saffronette said:
View attachment 1413042
I'd imagine you can kill someone with this if you hit them over the head hard enough. From what I remember, the cosplayer had the lower part of his back shattered and the person who hit him did it at full force. While running.
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You know, I was imagining those as a gay ping pong paddles, not fucking canoe oars. I stand corrected.
 
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