Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Analog Devolved]

http://archive.is/vWdmY

SGM is deleting his twitter account after a successful Plot Holes campaign. Looks like he can't take the heat so he's gonna cash out and ash out.
Throwing away a 64k person outreach platform is pretty stupid. I guess he thinks he'll do just as well on Instagram but thats rarely the case. He just wants a platform where he can delete comments critical of him or his associates.

He's a spineless loser and nothing of value is lost.

 

[Detrogen]

http://archive.md/vWdmY

View attachment 1447720View attachment 1447721
SGM is deleting his twitter account after a successful Plot Holes campaign. Looks like he can't take the heat so he's gonna cash out and ash out.
Throwing away a 64k person outreach platform is pretty stupid. I guess he thinks he'll do just as well on Instagram but thats rarely the case. He just wants a platform where he can delete comments critical of him or his associates.

He's a spineless loser and nothing of value is lost.

To me, SGM comes off as more of a wannabe celebrity than anyone else in comics. He knows all the personal politics, drama, and direct fan interaction that come with the industry and he seems to want no part of that. He just wants to be the next big name in Batman writers and will do just about anything that he thinks will protect his brand.

As I’ve said already, Jawbreakers Grand Bizarre has more backers than The Plot Holes (about over 1,000 right now), and it can’t just be because it’s a boring fucking concept. Comics is such a small insular business that when you cuck out as frequently as SGM did, everybody knows about it. Running away like this just makes him look even worse.

IGG let’s you see what books people have backed when you go into their profiles. I looked at Zack, EVS, Nasser, Elliot Fernandez, Mike S Miller, Tim Lim and JDA. Of all these pro/anti/adjacent CG people, only Doug and Elliot actually backed the book. There just seems to be less and less interest in SGM as time goes on, and he only did it to himself. He should have either kept his mouth shut about Doug and CG, or committed to the bit. He fumbled somewhere in the middle and now nobody cares.

 

[KingofNothing]

To me, SGM comes off as more of a wannabe celebrity than anyone else in comics. He knows all the personal politics, drama, and direct fan interaction that come with the industry and he seems to want no part of that. He just wants to be the next big name in Batman writers and will do just about anything that he thinks will protect his brand.

As I’ve said already, Jawbreakers Grand Bizarre has more backers than The Plot Holes (about over 1,000 right now), and it can’t just be because it’s a boring fucking concept. Comics is such a small insular business that when you cuck out as frequently as SGM did, everybody knows about it. Running away like this just makes him look even worse.

IGG let’s you see what books people have backed when you go into their profiles. I looked at Zack, EVS, Nasser, Elliot Fernandez, Mike S Miller, Tim Lim and JDA. Of all these pro/anti/adjacent CG people, only Doug and Elliot actually backed the book. There just seems to be less and less interest in SGM as time goes on, and he only did it to himself. He should have either kept his mouth shut about Doug and CG, or committed to the bit. He fumbled somewhere in the middle and now nobody cares.

I was gonna toss SGM a bone in terms of backer numbers and point out that Plot Holes was ran for a shorter time than Grand Bizarre, but I just checked the updates and there's like a 15 day difference at best. He pulled in more money yeah, but this is a really poor showing in terms of backer numbers considering his credentials and industry connections. Shouldn't have been a fencesitter buddy, probably could have grabbed that 1000 backers easy if he didn't disavow Doug.

I am torn about him deleting twitter though. On one hand, FUCK twitter, it's a shithole that encourages cancel culture and uniformed quick hot takes. On the other hand, that 65k people he can directly advertise to for his shit and for a content producer, deleting it can potentially do more harm than good for his reach, at least in the short term anyway.

 

[Adamska]

I guess that's how it appears to people who despise me and obsess over me.

Crowdfunding comics is different. It's different because I'm entirely responsible for the production of all of the materials that I promise, and then I'm entirely responsible for shipping tens of thousands of packages, and then dealing with returns, damages, etc.

I'm also responsible for constantly promoting my campaigns (as well as other creators, which I do voluntarily) on YouTube and social media. When I'm not promoting CYBERFROG every day, CYBERFROG doesn't sell very well.

4-6 issues per year? What length? 22 pagers like Marvel and DC? Why wouldn't I just do one campaign with lots of pages of reading material and then only do fulfillment once? Because that's what this campaign is. 48 pages of REKT PLANET + 20 pages of SALAMANDROID DEATHS STING + 5 pages of THE ORIGIN OF SKORPEONE plus the VILLAINS GALLERY. And that's not counting the reprint material I'm sending out. That's all the new stuff.

Variant covers just make good sense. They're prized, they have a high resale value, and people want them. I don't do them instead of doing new books, I do them to add profit to the new books I'm producing.

My theory is that one or two large projects per year is a better plan than a monthly series, at least for an indie creator.

1. Shipping costs are more manageable.
2. Enthusiasm is retained from issue to issue, rather than the 60% drop off between issues #1 and #2.
3. More time to produce the work and to plan it's production.

This is how I'll continue until this stops working.

And yet that's still only basically a super-sized annual which you struggled to release in the same time the old bullpen could've done two or so. Large projects to me are better done as squarebound things, but super-floppies of a double size like what you're talking about can still be done within that frame, or at the least 2-3 can be done a year while STILL having more time and less pressure than the old systems.

And variants was why the final collapse happened, because it encourages laziness on the creator (why make a new project when I can get 10k from retards buying the same book?), as well as artificial scarcity to trick the buyers.

I get it, easy way means less work, but overall less money due to relying on a progressively smaller audience deciding to give more. Not helped by drama since that cuts down markets.

 

[Detrogen]

I was gonna toss SGM a bone in terms of backer numbers and point out that Plot Holes was ran for a shorter time than Grand Bizarre, but I just checked the updates and there's like a 15 day difference at best. He pulled in more money yeah, but this is a really poor showing in terms of backer numbers considering his credentials and industry connections. Shouldn't have been a fencesitter buddy, probably could have grabbed that 1000 backers easy if he didn't disavow Doug.

I am torn about him deleting twitter though. On one hand, FUCK twitter, it's a shithole that encourages cancel culture and uniformed quick hot takes. On the other hand, that 65k people he can directly advertise to for his shit and for a content producer, deleting it can potentially do more harm than good for his reach, at least in the short term anyway.

This kind of feeds into my initial statement that he acts like he’s a sort of above-it-all pseudo-celebrity. He barely uses Twitter at all, let alone to push his book. The most push I’ve seen for his project on Twitter was from Perch and an account that just posts various crowdfunding projects.

Not to mention he’s not even managing his own IGG campaign. He has some guy named Geoffrey Martin doing it for him.

I think he thought he’d sell on his name alone and that crowdfunding books are a big deal right now so that would net the most profit. The way he’s actually handling it though it seems like he would have been better off publishing through Image.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Can't feel bad for sgm. He shouldn't be a tranny chaser and sell out on the doug cover.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

To me, SGM comes off as more of a wannabe celebrity than anyone else in comics. He knows all the personal politics, drama, and direct fan interaction that come with the industry and he seems to want no part of that. He just wants to be the next big name in Batman writers and will do just about anything that he thinks will protect his brand.

As I’ve said already, Jawbreakers Grand Bizarre has more backers than The Plot Holes (about over 1,000 right now), and it can’t just be because it’s a boring fucking concept. Comics is such a small insular business that when you cuck out as frequently as SGM did, everybody knows about it. Running away like this just makes him look even worse.

IGG let’s you see what books people have backed when you go into their profiles. I looked at Zack, EVS, Nasser, Elliot Fernandez, Mike S Miller, Tim Lim and JDA. Of all these pro/anti/adjacent CG people, only Doug and Elliot actually backed the book. There just seems to be less and less interest in SGM as time goes on, and he only did it to himself. He should have either kept his mouth shut about Doug and CG, or committed to the bit. He fumbled somewhere in the middle and now nobody cares.

I have been very selective recently with what I back on igg because of finances (and would honestly at this point rather get a book on Amazon or eBay that i'll get in a few days instead of waiting 1.5 years for something I might never get, like Earthbound or Red Rooster).

That being said, the book looked boring as hell, and that was the ultimate factor in not backing it.

I try and separate art from the artist, but him pulling the cover from Doug left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when I stopped by his table at c2e2 just to tell him I was looking forward to it.

 

[Detrogen]

I have been very selective recently with what I back on igg because of finances (and would honestly at this point rather get a book on Amazon or eBay that i'll get in a few days instead of waiting 1.5 years for something I might never get, like Earthbound or Red Rooster).

That being said, the book looked boring as hell, and that was the ultimate factor in not backing it.

I try and separate art from the artist, but him pulling the cover from Doug left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when I stopped by his table at c2e2 just to tell him I was looking forward to it.

I can understand the finances aspect of it. Not only is he charging 30 dollars for a paperback (5 more dollars than Doug charges for a hardcover lmao) but he also charges 15$ shipping. You’re practically paying 50$ at the lowest physical tier.

 

[Carmina Burana]

FFS Mitch. I love David Williams' art, & I'm gonna buy his books anyway, but get your act together:

Bass Reeves is the only CG book I'm interested in, & only for the art, but this kinda bullshit has gotten old real fast.

 

[jspit]

http://archive.md/vWdmY

View attachment 1447720View attachment 1447721
SGM is deleting his twitter account after a successful Plot Holes campaign. Looks like he can't take the heat so he's gonna cash out and ash out.
Throwing away a 64k person outreach platform is pretty stupid. I guess he thinks he'll do just as well on Instagram but thats rarely the case. He just wants a platform where he can delete comments critical of him or his associates.

He's a spineless loser and nothing of value is lost.

Interesting take, but I'm reading this differently.

1. he's the spineless jelly of pros, but, I actually think he's making the right move. He isn't leaving twitter, he has an assistant interacting with the weirdos on it. Good, if you don't have the backbone you should back out now.

2. YT is where its at, he's fucked in that he's a boring ass burning every none SJW bridge. It's just like I repeat about Wormie. Someone tries to assassinate you and misses, you don't give them a second chance. You make an exit strategy. He deserves whatever they give him.

3. BN has a two issue run on Catwoman with SGM plotting. This is a huge damage test to see the viability for mainstream comics post covid as BN is a diversity hire with ability and SGM is the biggest talent DC has left. Or it would be if comichron wasn't busted.

I have been very selective recently with what I back on igg because of finances (and would honestly at this point rather get a book on Amazon or eBay that i'll get in a few days instead of waiting 1.5 years for something I might never get, like Earthbound or Red Rooster).

That being said, the book looked boring as hell, and that was the ultimate factor in not backing it.

I try and separate art from the artist, but him pulling the cover from Doug left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when I stopped by his table at c2e2 just to tell him I was looking forward to it.

SGM has a CG problem. Most of them aren't fans of superhero comics. That's where the mainstream market is and how do most people know him? Batman. Superheros. So what is his crowdfunder. Fucking indie vertigo crap. He's a one hit wonder as far as I'm concerned until he puts up and shuts me up.

 

[NasserRabadi13]

Looks like another CG campaign refuses to pay somebody correctly. Guess this is becoming normal CG business practice.

 

[Analog Devolved]

FFS Mitch. I love David Williams' art, & I'm gonna buy his books anyway, but get your act together:
View attachment 1448188View attachment 1448189View attachment 1448190
Bass Reeves is the only CG book I'm interested in, & only for the art, but this kinda bullshit has gotten old real fast.

You know what someone who is still a fan of Mitch Breitweiser is called?
A retard.
He could draw a treasure map that leads to the holy grail and send me the only copy and I'd probably throw it away. Fuck Mitch the bitch.

 

[FROG]

And yet that's still only basically a super-sized annual which you struggled to release in the same time the old bullpen could've done two or so. Large projects to me are better done as squarebound things, but super-floppies of a double size like what you're talking about can still be done within that frame, or at the least 2-3 can be done a year while STILL having more time and less pressure than the old systems.

And variants was why the final collapse happened, because it encourages laziness on the creator (why make a new project when I can get 10k from retards buying the same book?), as well as artificial scarcity to trick the buyers.

I get it, easy way means less work, but overall less money due to relying on a progressively smaller audience deciding to give more. Not helped by drama since that cuts down markets.

I'll ignore all of your weird ideas of how comics work, ("the Old Bullpen", your insipid misunderstanding of variant covers, your strange idea that squarebinding is more time consuming than making an equal length floppy) and just explain why your thoughts would lead to failure.

It's not about what's easy, it's about what's effective. Someone working for the mainstream can easily kick back and devote all of their
time and energy to nothing but producing comics. It's work for hire, you're getting a paycheck, you know what that paycheck is going to be. It's not your
worry about marketing or fulfilling. You don't care if fans buy it or not. That's Marvel's problem. Or more specifically, the retailers.

Working for the mainstream, in other words, means that you might do many, many more comics. Which is why the shelves are flooded with mediocre shit.

If you choose to go indie, you're now responsible for the entire business. Just like films spend half their budget on marketing, you're going to spend half of your year marketing your comic on YouTube and social media. You're going to spend three months drawing your comic. You're going to spend three months fulfilling your comic.

And you're going to make WAAAAAAY more money doing so, if you're effective at all three. But you're going to be producing fewer comics.

Because you're marketing your comic every day on YouTube, you're going to maximize the number of people that you can directly sell to, people who are already inclined to consider purchasing your work. They're your fans. Because you're shipping it yourself, you're saving yourself the 40% of cover price you'd be losing to retailers and distributors. Because your book is extra-sized, you're getting more content out in one effort, and collecting a higher price for it.

Fulfillment and marketing are the time-consuming challenge. Drawing the comic takes time, but most of us have been doing that for years.

Doing nothing but 6 comics per year as an indie will break you. You will eventually grind to a halt.

Doing fewer, better promoted event comics will make you wealthy.

 

[KingofNothing]

Got another Red Rooster update from Mitch. Still taking his time getting that book finished and he's trying to sate backers by sending out another chunk to read as a pdf.

 

[Adamska]

I'll ignore all of your weird ideas of how comics work, ("the Old Bullpen", your insipid misunderstanding of variant covers, your strange idea that squarebinding is more time consuming than making an equal length floppy) and just explain why your thoughts would lead to failure.

It's not about what's easy, it's about what's effective. Someone working for the mainstream can easily kick back and devote all of their
time and energy to nothing but producing comics. It's work for hire, you're getting a paycheck, you know what that paycheck is going to be. It's not your
worry about marketing or fulfilling. You don't care if fans buy it or not. That's Marvel's problem. Or more specifically, the retailers.

Working for the mainstream, in other words, means that you might do many, many more comics. Which is why the shelves are flooded with mediocre shit.

If you choose to go indie, you're now responsible for the entire business. Just like films spend half their budget on marketing, you're going to spend half of your year marketing your comic on YouTube and social media. You're going to spend three months drawing your comic. You're going to spend three months fulfilling your comic.

And you're going to make WAAAAAAY more money doing so, if you're effective at all three. But you're going to be producing fewer comics.

Because you're marketing your comic every day on YouTube, you're going to maximize the number of people that you can directly sell to, people who are already inclined to consider purchasing your work. They're your fans. Because you're shipping it yourself, you're saving yourself the 40% of cover price you'd be losing to retailers and distributors. Because your book is extra-sized, you're getting more content out in one effort, and collecting a higher price for it.

Fulfillment and marketing are the time-consuming challenge. Drawing the comic takes time, but most of us have been doing that for years.

Doing nothing but 6 comics per year as an indie will break you. You will eventually grind to a halt.

Doing fewer, better promoted event comics will make you wealthy.

And yet none of you could even pull out the same output level of the old TMNT runs or any of the indie stuff from back when you began cutting your teeth, which were in a similar boat with even less avenues to get the message about new products out.

You may know the logistics of the business better than I do, but I am capable of looking back into history and using prior examples to compare to. I also know the difference between marketing a franchise and marketing yourself using drama.

 

[A nameless trool]

Interesting take, but I'm reading this differently.

1. he's the spineless jelly of pros, but, I actually think he's making the right move. He isn't leaving twitter, he has an assistant interacting with the weirdos on it. Good, if you don't have the backbone you should back out now.

2. YT is where its at, he's fucked in that he's a boring ass burning every none SJW bridge. It's just like I repeat about Wormie. Someone tries to assassinate you and misses, you don't give them a second chance. You make an exit strategy. He deserves whatever they give him.

3. BN has a two issue run on Catwoman with SGM plotting. This is a huge damage test to see the viability for mainstream comics post covid as BN is a diversity hire with ability and SGM is the biggest talent DC has left. Or it would be if comichron wasn't busted.



SGM has a CG problem. Most of them aren't fans of superhero comics. That's where the mainstream market is and how do most people know him? Batman. Superheros. So what is his crowdfunder. Fucking indie vertigo crap. He's a one hit wonder as far as I'm concerned until he puts up and shuts me up.

I believe SGM wanted to do his own IP and was unable to publish it at DC, no other company due to exclusivity and instead went and did an IGG to put it out there.
As for twitter, he did the smart thing. A good artist would better use IG to promote their work, twitter is losing ground and becomes too polarized

 

[NasserRabadi13]

I believe SGM wanted to do his own IP and was unable to publish it at DC, no other company due to exclusivity and instead went and did an IGG to put it out there.
As for twitter, he did the smart thing. A good artist would better use IG to promote their work, twitter is losing ground and becomes too polarized

DC has published creator owned before/is publishing some right now. Usually under imprints like Vertigo or Hill House.

I remember @FROG showing pages back on a stream 2 years ago from a creator owned book DC was gonna publish. I forgot the name of the book but I remember a lady in the pages going insane and attacking some people. DC was on board to do it, I dont remember why it fell through.

Point is DC is open to creator owned, I think SGM just saw the profitability in keeping all the money and wanted to try it out.

 

[jspit]

I have been very selective recently with what I back on igg because of finances (and would honestly at this point rather get a book on Amazon or eBay that i'll get in a few days instead of waiting 1.5 years for something I might never get, like Earthbound or Red Rooster).

That being said, the book looked boring as hell, and that was the ultimate factor in not backing it.

I try and separate art from the artist, but him pulling the cover from Doug left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when I stopped by his table at c2e2 just to tell him I was looking forward to it.

Got another Red Rooster update from Mitch. Still taking his time getting that book finished and he's trying to sate backers by sending out another chunk to read as a pdf.

View attachment 1448325

Finish your damn book man. I'm sure it'll be in Wal Mar before backers get it.

I'll ignore all of your weird ideas of how comics work, ("the Old Bullpen", your insipid misunderstanding of variant covers, your strange idea that squarebinding is more time consuming than making an equal length floppy) and just explain why your thoughts would lead to failure.

With a smug condescending prick attitude? Go on....

It's not about what's easy

That's a lie, I know you do it reflexively, but still.

it's about what's effective.

This is true. See, one doesn't negate the other. Work smart not hard.

Someone working for the mainstream can easily kick back and devote all of their
time and energy to nothing but producing comics. It's work for hire, you're getting a paycheck, you know what that paycheck is going to be.

You still receive royalties from a Flash book you did over twenty years ago...

It's not your worry about marketing or fulfilling. You don't care if fans buy it or not. That's Marvel's problem. Or more specifically, the retailers. Working for the mainstream, in other words, means that you might do many, many more comics. Which is why the shelves are flooded with mediocre shit.

No, the stores are flooded with "mediocre shit" is because Social Justice Warriors are more focused on narrative than agenda and the best and most talented are rewarded for not working, see someone like Frank Cho or Amanda Conner.

If you choose to go indie, you're now responsible for the entire business. Just like films spend half their budget on marketing, you're going to spend half of your year marketing your comic on YouTube and social media. You're going to spend three months drawing your comic. You're going to spend three months fulfilling your comic.

Meh? I mean your being a little overblown there, but I couldn't care less. Your fucking slow at drawing, so whatever.

Doing nothing but 6 comics per year as an indie will break you. You will eventually grind to a halt.

You couldn't cut it before now. It's not surprising when you are your own boss your slow. Monthly comics is a grind that refines artists and resulted in some of the greatest storytelling. People grew, evolved. Don't excuse your own low energy output with burnout. Better than you have put out more consistent work over a longer period.

Doing fewer, better promoted event comics will make you wealthy.

Lie. Hacking into fandom communities and then converting them into a cult of personality will make you relatively prosperous. Tricking untalented hacks and losers into believing if they buy into your pyramid scheme, their shit comic dream will come true will make you some money. Overcharging for a comic book will let you make some bucks.

It's pathetic, entry level grift.

 

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Looks like another CG campaign refuses to pay somebody correctly. Guess this is becoming normal CG business practice.

Man cg needs to start setting up contracts if they don't want to get screwed over.

You're going to spend three months drawing your comic.

You know that's a damn lie. If it did take 3 months to draw the book you'll been on cyberfrog 4, reignbro brute and another project by now.

 

[Newman's Own]

it seems like he would have been better off publishing through Image.

Not likely. He'll still squeeze more profit out of this book on his KS campaign. If he's smart he'll do a separate cover and bang off an IGG campaign for a few more bucks then he'll do a deal with a publisher to get it into LCS's and book stores after that.

Going straight to Image he'd likely make a small percentage of what he'll make off the first crowdfund. If word of mouth is good after the book's delivered he could have a real hit in comic shops. Or not. But either way he's doing better crowd funding than he would selling 5000 copies and watching Image take a large portion of it.

I'll ignore all of your weird ideas of how comics work, ("the Old Bullpen", your insipid misunderstanding of variant covers, your strange idea that squarebinding is more time consuming than making an equal length floppy) and just explain why your thoughts would lead to failure.

It's not about what's easy, it's about what's effective. Someone working for the mainstream can easily kick back and devote all of their
time and energy to nothing but producing comics. It's work for hire, you're getting a paycheck, you know what that paycheck is going to be. It's not your
worry about marketing or fulfilling. You don't care if fans buy it or not. That's Marvel's problem. Or more specifically, the retailers.

Working for the mainstream, in other words, means that you might do many, many more comics. Which is why the shelves are flooded with mediocre shit.

If you choose to go indie, you're now responsible for the entire business. Just like films spend half their budget on marketing, you're going to spend half of your year marketing your comic on YouTube and social media. You're going to spend three months drawing your comic. You're going to spend three months fulfilling your comic.

And you're going to make WAAAAAAY more money doing so, if you're effective at all three. But you're going to be producing fewer comics.

Because you're marketing your comic every day on YouTube, you're going to maximize the number of people that you can directly sell to, people who are already inclined to consider purchasing your work. They're your fans. Because you're shipping it yourself, you're saving yourself the 40% of cover price you'd be losing to retailers and distributors. Because your book is extra-sized, you're getting more content out in one effort, and collecting a higher price for it.

Fulfillment and marketing are the time-consuming challenge. Drawing the comic takes time, but most of us have been doing that for years.

Doing nothing but 6 comics per year as an indie will break you. You will eventually grind to a halt.

Doing fewer, better promoted event comics will make you wealthy.

You talk like anyone can manage to make money the way you did. Not true. Not many people have the combination of malevolent narcissism and charisma to generate a cult of personality on a foundation of out rage culture.

As a comics talent you're middling at best. As a snake oil peddling huckster cult leader you're extremely talented. You don't make your money off what you produce. What you produce gives you the excuse to milk your paypigs who can't wait to tithe on YouTube and IGG.

Your "system" may get an A-lister up to low 6 figures but the real money being made is as a drama merchant selling culture war nonsense to enthralled losers and that's where you excel. "Buy my box. It's got 73 pages of new content printed multiple times for the 'low' price of $200 plus shipping. That's just $2.75 per page of story. (before shipping) And the SJW's will lose somehow."

Just be glad your customers are to stupid or to enraptured to realize how lame that deal is.

If it was about making comics for you then you'd average more than a page a week.