Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Getting tard comed]

I'm not seeing how you'd draw that line.

So after much delay, here are my thoughts on the second LOTF Entry, Bloodlines. The reason for this delay has everything to do with the book itself, as I will explain later.

With this being my first brush up against Karen Traviss’ work, I went in with many reservations. She’s arguably the most controversial EU writer after Troy Denning (and possibly Kevin J. Anderson, depending on who you ask). Her insatiable Mando obsession, her moral soapbox tirades against the Jedi, her scalding interactions with critics…hell, the number of heated discussions she’s sparked on this very thread should be a testament to how contested her work is. And although her…penchant for writing Mando characters is definitely front and center, I didn’t hate it as much as I thought I would.

Boba Fett’s characterized the way you’d expect, and I think Traviss did a good job with his dialogue. They feel in-character for him without feeling too excessive or edgy, and it’s easy to picture Temura Morrison saying these kind of lines in that Kiwi voice of his. I also like the prose around his dialogue, where he’ll says something callous and harsh to preserve his uncompromising Mando image, while the prose will detail what actual uncertainties or reservations are running through his mind. His conversation with the Kaminoan scientist in the beginning is a good example of this, especially when closeted feelings about his childhood and his attitude towards the Clone Army are revealed (there was also a moment where he expressed disdain for the Kaminoans using clones to repel the Empire—I couldn’t tell if that was a reference to the Clone Rebellion mission from the OG Battlefront II, but if it is, that’s really cool to get his reaction to that). Some people might object to all these details about Fett distracting from the narrative, but I’m not too bothered by it. If what I’ve researched is correct, in terms of publishing, these portions of the book were the first major updates regarding Boba Fett’s exploits after ROTJ since, what, the Bantam novels and Dark Horse comics in the 90’s? Considering Fett and the Mandalorians play a bigger role than cameos in this story arc, and with more information on Fett’s backstory being available now that AOTC had been released, I’m not surprised that Traviss would commit time to getting the reader up to date on what Fett’s been up to. Having said all that, I would be lying if I said I was at all interested in Boba’s side of the story…which I wasn’t. I like the character fine, but following his doddering exploits in search of “muh cure” and “muh abandoned daughter” did nothing for me, and never matched the emotional weight of what was going on with the rest of the story.

Because if I have any real gripes with the new focus on the Fett and the Mandos, it’s the timing. This really didn’t need to be the first thing to be addressed in the wake of the major events of the previous book. Boba Fett having butt cancer and needing to hunt down Taun We really has fuck all to do with the Corellian Uprising, Lumiya’s return, Jacen’s downfall, or really anything for at least 2/3rds of the book. Even the element of his daughter eying Thrackan-Sal’s contract on the Solo Family boils down to settling her daddy issues with Boba than the overarching plot at hand. And even though it eventually intersects with the main plot way later in the book, by then it feels too unimportant and inconsequential compared to everything else for me to care. Like, what possessed Karen Traviss to think that the best course of action was to take the reader, who is still preoccupied with Jacen Solo’s character drama that Aaron Alliston spent the entire previous book establishing as the basis for this current story arc, and hand-cuff them to an infinitely less relevant plot about Boba Fett and his retarded Punished Snake melodrama? Why this, and more importantly, why now? This all could’ve easily been pushed to Book #3 of this story arc…not the very next thing we read after Jacen decapitates a fellow Jedi Knight and takes his first steps towards Sith teachings. For fuck’s sake. Also, another gripe I had was that prologue of Boba Fett in first person—that shit was cringe to read, and felt like the author getting physical arousal at writing Fett as the most “too-cool-for-you” edgelord in the universe. The prose is so try-hard and reads so much like a Sonic OC bio that I half expected Boba to at one point go: “Psh. Nothing personnel, kid.” Keep in mind, I don’t hate the inclusion of this sub-plot, and enjoyed portions of it—particularly the reunion of Fett and the Solo’s, due to great interactions—but the implementation was laughable. I can certainly see why this a major point of contention for EU fans.

Now, the juiciest part of this book, and what I’m rapidly coming to enjoy the most about LOTF overall, is the family drama. Jacen’s decision to become a Colonel in the Alliance’s Anti-Terror effort does not go ignored…it rattles both Skywalker and Solo families, causing divide as some members side with him and others are horrified by what he’s doing. It all especially works because unlike most Dark Side Turns, he hasn’t leapt to pure evil yet, and is operating legally and pacifistically…but his pragmatic measures create a ton of revulsion in Han, Jaina, and especially Luke, all of which is in-character and written superbly. Some of the scenes with Mara and Luke debating whether or not they want their son being contaminated by Jacen’s influence, along with the arguments staged between Luke and Jacen, felt so real at times that I sometimes completely phased out of caring about the Civil War being waged, and more about the quiet but gut-wrenching scenes unfolding in the Senate Offices and Apartments. Those horrible moments where the characters return to their homes wracked from battle or politics and realize in hollow defeat that they can’t relieve stress by talking it out with their family anymore…because the family rift has forced them to sever contact with each other. The more I read LOTF, the more I realize that this bitter family division might be the core asset of this story arc, the same way the philosophical drama of the Force and the Vong was to NJO.

The more of Jacen’s scenes that I read, the more I feel like this series is going to give NJO a run for its money in terms of pure, heart-wrenching tragedy. NJO allowed for a lot of levity and emotional relief from its more harrowing moments…but LOTF is just constant, wracking sadness, all well-earned and spectacularly written. And if it’s one thing I can credit Traviss for, it’s for writing Jacen’s self-loathing and helpless descent just as well as Alliston, sometimes better. But part of that can be attributed to her not shoe-horning comedy where it doesn’t belong like Alliston, which helped the tonal consistency of the story tremendously.

Scenes like that desperate message that Jacen types for Jaina then deletes, or the sleepless night he spends thinking about his wife and daughter that he can’t see, all tug at the heart strings. You can see that he’s struggling under his uncertainty in the bad decisions he’s making, and doesn’t feel like he can bring his anxieties to anyone. It’s the kind of conflicted helplessness that I hear Disney Drones inexplicably credit the ST for showing in Crylo Ren, despite it barely materializing in the actual films at all. Also, unlike that lip-quivering brat, Jacen is actually shown to be doing everything with the misguided belief that he’s saving everyone—and that for all of his stupid decisions, he still loves his family, and wants them to stay alive. He doesn’t even want to kill Luke like Kylo does (at least, at the stage that I’m reading), if anything, he’s trying to do what his uncle isn’t willing to do, to protect him from his own weaknesses. And probably the most bitter aspect of Jacen’s turn, as the shock and horror of his actions start turning the heads of people in his personal life, is watching him forcefully—but miserably—cut ties with the rest of his family with every act of necessity he takes. The distrust he instills in Luke, the vile resentment he creates in Jaina…and then, the final scene. Those of you who’ve read this book know the one I mean: the one where Jacen returns the Falcon to his parents—who are waiting with full knowledge of what he’s done in a certain interrogation room—and they greet him the same way the heartbroken and horrified parents of a school shooter would. Let me tell you, as someone who watched the Solo Family grow and bond together as early as Young Jedi Knights, this scene was fucking heart-breaking, especially what Han says to his son right before they depart. I would almost compare it to the frigid confrontation between Han and Anakin Solo in Vector Prime after the Serpindal Moon scene, but this scene actually defies nature and is even more of an emotional, sickening gut punch than even that. I know people accuse the “Denningsverse” books as being gore porn, but I disagree. This is outright misery porn. If there’s been a noticeable gap between this post and the one I made on Betrayal, it’s only because this book was a struggle to get through, because I couldn’t make it three chapters without needing to do something, anything else to not sink into a reclusive state of depression.

And I want to be clear about this: this should all be considered mountainous praise. Oh, this book was depressing, but it was a good kind of depressing…the kind where you can’t help but marvel at how well the author is achieving their goal. For however dark or bleak this book got, not a single part of it felt unearned. This wasn’t a bad 90’s anime or Zack Snyder film, not an exercise in navel-gazing angst or forced superficial melodrama. Everything about Jacen’s parts of the story felt measured, understated and psychological…everything I didn’t expect to see again after NJO, or in these relentless quantities. And I know it’s cliché to parrot at this point, but the more of Jacen’s downfall I read, the more I’m flabbergasted that we didn’t get something like this from the ST. How did three random authors—X-Wing writer, a Mando fetishist, and a Gorehound, all with conflicting interests and writing styles—manage to convey a character’s downfall better than a multi-million dollar movie trilogy with infinitely more resources and star power? It’s fucking unbelievable how amateurish these books make the ST look, even with the myriad of problems they have.

The other effective thing this book does is that it firmly establishes the difference between Jacen’s swerve to the Dark Side, and Anakin’s. Rather than do what the ST did with Kylo, clambering fruitlessly at replicating Anakin’s conflict verbatim, this book makes a conscious effort to show Jacen learning about his grandfather’s downfall (even using the Force to explore the bloody memories that ensued in the Coruscant Jedi Temple during the night of Order 66), and definitively saying that he will rise above making the same mistakes his grandfather did…and never compromise his morals or his loved ones, no matter how much of the Dark Side he embraces for the “right reasons”. This is something I definitely appreciate, as this story arc is taking careful measures as to not repeat the events of the films, and even deconstruct them…again, as opposed to the ST, which simply regurgitates the same cycle of events as its preceding trilogy for no narrative gain whatsoever. The other thing that really separates Jacen from Anakin during this phase is that in some ways…he’s actually scarier. There’s a scene in this book where Jacen interrogates a prisoner and accidentally kills her, in front of his apprentice Ben. The thing that makes this scene so unsettling to me is how unnaturally back to normal and caring Jacen goes back to when Ben expresses discomfort at what he sees, saying that the boy can return home to his parents and that this all might be too much for him. He does these cold, calculating things, and still remains in-character and with his master-student bond with Ben intact. There’s no murderous angry shift like you see with Anakin…he’s just the same logical and assertive Jacen he’s grown to be through NJO and Dark Nest, but applying that logic to scary conclusions.

Speaking on the conflict itself, it’s actually taking more shape in this book. The American Civil War parallels are even more apparent in this book, what with Traviss going out of her way to establish the growing tensions and divisions brought about by it…not just between the Coruscanti and the Corellians, but within the Skywalker-Solo families. A lot of Han’s Inner Monologue about his conflicting feelings about his son being involved in the Corellian attack and his daughter siding with the New Republic, how familial ties and political leanings are at odds with each other, is a particular highlight. I want to see more scenes like this and the Dinner Argument from Betrayal, as Civil War media (being a passion of mine) mines some of its greatest storytelling from the narrative drama of families being divided by the war. Also, remember how I said that LOTF continues to cement the idea of the Swarm War being utterly irrelevant? Jacen utters this line about the oncoming Civil War:

“I don’t think the galaxy could endure another war so soon after the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.”​

Fucking ouch. The Swarm War was such a minor nothing on the protagonists’ radar that it doesn’t even come up in a conversation about the state of the galaxy. Troy Denning can’t catch a break, the poor fucker.

However, with all this praise directed at the book (and my middling acceptance of the controversial Mando stuff), I have two massive complaints: the first of which is in regards to what I said earlier about Traviss retaining tone where Alliston seemingly could not. As I mentioned in my megapost on Betrayal, Alliston had a teeth-grittingly frequent tendency to insert cringey Whedon-esque jokes where they didn’t belong, hobbling the dramatic tension and immersion of several scenes. Chief among them was a painfully self-aware and fart-huffing “Han Shot First” joke that came out of fucking nowhere, and utterly shattered immersion. For almost the entirety of Bloodlines, Traviss was showing a notable improvement in this aspect, refraining from unbalancing the tone of her book with any needless humor….and then the scene where Boba Fett’s daughter murders Thrackan-Sal before Han Solo can, and Boba makes a comment about Han “needing to learn to shoot first, and I almost threw the fucking book outside of my top-story apartment window. Fucking really? Do we need to shoe-horn this retarded Special Edition joke into EVERY ENTRY in this series? Note to EU authors everywhere: this knuckle-dragging, glue-scarfing, tired-ass meme wasn’t funny in 1997, it wasn’t funny in 2006, and it isn’t funny now. Shoe-horning this joke into dramatic scenes of all things is the literary equivalent of Steve Buschemi hauling two skateboards and asking how his fellow kids are doing, so fucking stop.

My second big complaint is that, yet again, the author has opted to barely use the existing Jedi Characters established in NJO…and this is really starting to make my blood boil. This isn’t even just about Tahiri Veila anymore (although that would be a legitimate starting point of contention, considering she has the most narrative potential to exploit, and the authors seem deterimined to do fuck all with her, which is really getting on my last nerve), the story practically ignores all of the young Jedi Knight characters, for reasons that utterly elude me. Hey, Karen…maybe instead of dedicating half the book to touching yourself to your favorite oily Kiwi Bounty Hunter, consider utilizing some of the existing Jedi Order Members to contribute to the narrative. I mean, for fuck’s sake…you have Jacen Solo join the Galactic Alliance equivalent of the East Berlin Stasi, generating daily controversy on Galactic HoloNews, and getting publicly compared to Darth Vader. You really don’t think some of the other members of the Jedi Order could offer some profound reactions to what’s going on? I mean, get why series regulars like Corran Horn and Kyle Katarn’s reactions were relegated to only a few pages…they’re technically the ‘old guard’ at this point, pushing into their 60’s. But why isn’t Kyp Durron given more to do? What about Tahiri Veila? What about Lowbacca, or Tenel Ka? Hell, Zekk is in this book, but he has barely anything to do or contribute. These are people that Jacen grew up with, his close friends, his companions of the fucking Yuuzhan Vong War. You’d think they would be the first people to react to their best friend wreaking havoc in a black uniform with a secret police SWAT Team on live television. What the fuck is preoccupying them off-page, exactly? Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice that Jaina’s part of the main drama—finally—but having the other Solo Twin react to her brother’s dark descent is kind of a no-brainer, literally the most basic thing I would expect to be addressed in a story arc like this. Whether Traviss or Alliston care or not, it is their obligation to make use of the carry-over characters from NJO…not invent arbitrary one-use Jedi for killing off and boosting Jacen’s arc, or Mando characters to sideline the main plot. I hear a lot of complaints about LOTF regarding its “grimdark tone” and “unbelievable arc for Jacen” and “focus on Mandos”, but this is the only problem with this series that is actively turning me livid, because it is the LAST fucking blunder I would expect from professional authors to struggle with this late in the EU’s lifespan. You have rich and well-developed characters, so for God’s sake make use of them. I’ve been really fucking lenient on this series’ flaws, but I’m about to enter the 1/3rd mark with Tempest, and if they still haven’t fixed this problem, that lenience is going evaporate.

So those are my experiences with Bloodlines, a book I’m relieved to say is, for the most part, as good if not better than Betrayal was. To be honest, I was expecting a lot worse considering the things I’ve heard about this series, and Traviss’ contributions in particular, and the quality of the book left me pleasantly surprised. With the almost unanimously bad things I’ve heard about both this story arc and its follow-up, FOTJ, I’ve spent my reading constantly wary about the moment that the quality supposedly takes a swan-dive, and I still haven’t encountered it yet.

But I’m only two books in, and the next one’s by everyone’s favorite edgelord, Troy Denning, so I better not say anything two definitive. Alema Rar’s in the next book’s Dramatis Personae, so that’s encouraging at least.

I'm prefacing this by admitting I like most of Karen Travis' EU books. Mississippi Mourning gives a pretty good breakdown of her here.

I get the feeling that KT, like Kathleen Kennedy doesn't actually like SW per se. She likes an aspect of SW specifically Mando's and their culture and eventually because her focus was on her wants and preferences and not the well being of the overall whole it shows up in her work. Unlike KK I dont think KT hates SW. But that's the line.


Glad to read your review and looking forward to the next ones. Not to spoil anything but iirc some of your complaints may get remedied either in this series or the next. I agree completely how astounding it is to have the ST fuck up so badly on a fundamental level when they had access to the EU doing it so well. Ita good to keep in mind according to KK they didn't have any source material to draw from somehow.

Disney's decision to make all EU works non canon killed a lot of interest in the franchise from the more hardcore fanbase precisely because the readers knew how good some of the EU content was and had doubts Disney could produce something as good as what they were throwing away. Sadly that was right.

 

[jspit]

which do you think is more likely: the man responsible for what was the most beloved, universal movie franchise ever who is still respected amung his peers, who people go to for advice for non star wars related films didn't know what he was doing or what he was doing has been criticized because it isn't what some fans wanted him to do?

That's a specious argument. Yes George created Indiana Jones and Star Wars. He also made the Phantom menace and Crystal Skull. Something happened between the two, time.

The George fans wanted was the hungry motherfucker that was lean and desperate and a little crazy. What they got was an out of shape George who was rusty and didn't have anyone who would tell him the truth because he demanded an echo chamber.

The fans wanted quality. All the problems you mentioned, dialogue and chemistry. You should mention pacing and story telling. The reason RoS is extremely well regarded compared to the other two is because its where Lucas' rust came off and he received criticism from people outside his enablers. Prequel apologists have seized on the terrible sequel trilogy as an excuse for the prequels many, many flaws. They are not.

Most of those fans were basically embryonic versions of Dave Filoni as described by @Mooger Meng: self-appointed purists enraged by the idea that mere normies could take on Force-users in a fight and win.

That's bad faith. Most problems with Travissisty was that she was just as much about jerking her pet mandos as Filoni is his pedo OC

 

[Getting tard comed]

That's a specious argument. Yes George created Indiana Jones and Star Wars. He also made the Phantom menace and Crystal Skull. Something happened between the two, time.

The George fans wanted was the hungry motherfucker that was lean and desperate and a little crazy. What they got was an out of shape George who was rusty and didn't have anyone who would tell him the truth because he demanded an echo chamber.

The fans wanted quality. All the problems you mentioned, dialogue and chemistry. You should mention pacing and story telling. The reason RoS is extremely well regarded compared to the other two is because its where Lucas' rust came off and he received criticism from people outside his enablers. Prequel apologists have seized on the terrible sequel trilogy as an excuse for the prequels many, many flaws. They are not.

These would go better if quotes included what was quoted as well. Me saying he knew what he was doing was in direct response to somebody saying George didn't know what he was doing and somehow ended up with a movie that didn't have a protaganist. Whether or not he succeeded in pulling off what he set out to do is irrelevant to him having a goal that he was trying to reach. If you think it's more likely he didn't have a clue as opposed to executing something suboptimally that's your choice. I disagree.

The prequel haters aren't George fans. They are Star Wars fans. More specifically they are fans of Star wars that comports to their own personal experience relating to it. There have been plenty of interviews before, during, and after of George Lucas talking about, outlining, and explaining what he was trying to do with the prequels and Star Wars as a whole. Somehow none of the criticism of these "George" fans ever mention what George was actually setting ok but to do. I subscribe to the notion that in judging and work of art you have to include the authorial intent. Nobody on here has done that and judging from the critiques most commonly used against the prequels, they aren't coming from that place either.

I disagree that TPM has pacing issues and I disagree the storytelling is lacking in the prequels. Ironically enough RotS has the biggest pacing problems out of all of the prequels. I felt that way when I saw it as a teenager and I feel that way now when I rewatch it. I fell asleep during the whole middle portion of RotS, the middle portion is plodding and boring and feels inconsequential for a vast majority of it. AotC, which is the worst prequel imo, doesnt have that issue at all. The "mystery" plot carrys the middle portion of the film. TPM doesnt have that issue. I have no idea where you are getting them having a pacing problem.

Nobody claims the prequels are perfect. They arent as bad as early youtubers have claimed them to be, and, as sure you are well aware a lot of the complaints of the prequels(which aren't as good as the OT) apply to the OT.

 

[jspit]

These would go better if quotes included what was quoted as well. Me saying he knew what he was doing was in direct response to somebody saying George didn't know what he was doing and somehow ended up with a movie that didn't have a protaganist. Whether or not he succeeded in pulling off what he set out to do is irrelevant to him having a goal that he was trying to reach. If you think it's more likely he didn't have a clue as opposed to executing something suboptimally that's your choice. I disagree.

The prequel haters aren't George fans. They are Star Wars fans. More specifically they are fans of Star wars that comports to their own personal experience relating to it. There have been plenty of interviews before, during, and after of George Lucas talking about, outlining, and explaining what he was trying to do with the prequels and Star Wars as a whole. Somehow none of the criticism of these "George" fans ever mention what George was actually setting ok but to do. I subscribe to the notion that in judging and work of art you have to include the authorial intent. Nobody on here has done that and judging from the critiques most commonly used against the prequels, they aren't coming from that place either.

I disagree that TPM has pacing issues and I disagree the storytelling is lacking in the prequels. Ironically enough RotS has the biggest pacing problems out of all of the prequels. I felt that way when I saw it as a teenager and I feel that way now when I rewatch it. I fell asleep during the whole middle portion of RotS, the middle portion is plodding and boring and feels inconsequential for a vast majority of it. AotC, which is the worst prequel imo, doesnt have that issue at all. The "mystery" plot Carrie's the middle portion of the film. TPM doesnt have that issue. I have no idea where you are getting them having a pacing problem.

Nobody claims the prequels are perfect. They arent as bad as early youtubers have claimed them to be, and, as sure you are well aware a lot of the complaints of the prequels(which aren't as good as the OT) apply to the OT.

There, the whole book report....

. Me saying he knew what he was doing was in direct response to somebody saying George didn't know what he was doing and somehow ended up with a movie that didn't have a protaganist. Whether or not he succeeded in pulling off what he set out to do is irrelevant to him having a goal that he was trying to reach. If you think it's more likely he didn't have a clue as opposed to executing something suboptimally that's your choice. I disagree.

No, you gave two options to frame everyone into a rhetorical box.

The prequel haters aren't George fans. They are Star Wars fans. More specifically they are fans of Star wars that comports to their own personal experience relating to it. There have been plenty of interviews before, during, and after of George Lucas talking about, outlining, and explaining what he was trying to do with the prequels and Star Wars as a whole. Somehow none of the criticism of these "George" fans ever mention what George was actually setting ok but to do. I subscribe to the notion that in judging and work of art you have to include the authorial intent. Nobody on here has done that and judging from the critiques most commonly used against the prequels, they aren't coming from that place either.

Again, a definitive either or. Some people like George and his work and acknowledge the prequels aren't very good. You sound like Ruin Johnson, he just subverted their expectations! My sole expectation was to get a good, paced movie. Intentions do not matter, he could have been trying to make Citizen Kane. I can only judge the actual product.

I disagree that TPM has pacing issues and I disagree the storytelling is lacking in the prequels. Ironically enough RotS has the biggest pacing problems out of all of the prequels. I felt that way when I saw it as a teenager and I feel that way now when I rewatch it. I fell asleep during the whole middle portion of RotS, the middle portion is plodding and boring and feels inconsequential for a vast majority of it. AotC, which is the worst prequel imo, doesnt have that issue at all. The "mystery" plot Carrie's the middle portion of the film. TPM doesnt have that issue. I have no idea where you are getting them having a pacing problem.

Okay. Then you devalue your opinion because you refuse to acknowledge a basic problem with Menace. Phantom Menace is bloated. It starts out slow, rapidly accelerates, only to meander in the second act, then ramp up tension again for the third act. Its luxuriant with filler, wanting to do too much. The middle part of Rots is the seduction of Anakin Skywalker and ratchets the tension with the reveal of Sidious and his pulling on Anakin versus the Jedi council, climaxing with the fight in the office.

Nobody claims the prequels are perfect. They arent as bad as early youtubers have claimed them to be, and, as sure you are well aware a lot of the complaints of the prequels(which aren't as good as the OT) apply to the OT.

Nothing is 'perfect', but the prequels are enjoyable, deeply flawed movies. The only one of the OT I see overlap with in terms of flaws is Jedi, which has pacing and bloating problems akin to Phantom Menace, but nowhere near as bad.

 

[Godzilla@1989]

This is rumors, but apparently the upcoming SW films are going to have lower budgets because of COVID-19 wrecking the economy, but I smell something fishy. @GeneralFriendliness

Upcoming ‘Star Wars’ Movies Rumored to Have Lower Budgets

A new report suggests that Disney and Lucasfilm will begin making ‘Star Wars’ movies with lower budgets.

movieweb.com

 

[White Devil]

I don't care about budget, I'd just like Disney to sell back to Lucas.


Yes I know this will never happen.

 

[Mooger Meng]

So after much delay, here are my thoughts on the second LOTF Entry, Bloodlines. The reason for this delay has everything to do with the book itself, as I will explain later.

MOTHERFUCKIN' WORDS, SON!

My only regret is that I can only rate a post once.

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

I feel like Filoni Wars version of the MagnaGuard should've been a little difficult to fight against I kinda think they get destroyed easily, even Dooku MagnaGuard (yellow one) is more stronger than Grievous MagnaGuard, It like how they almost overpowered Anakin while Grievous guard couldn't and it funny how fans get mad when Grievous guard interfering his duel with Eeth Koth but that only happens one time while Dooku own MagnaGuard interfering against Anakin twice (I think).

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I remember how much of a pain they were in the Republic Commando games... they were the Marauders of their time

 

[Creep3r]

This is rumors, but apparently the upcoming SW films are going to have lower budgets because of COVID-19 wrecking the economy, but I smell something fishy. @GeneralFriendliness

Upcoming ‘Star Wars’ Movies Rumored to Have Lower Budgets

A new report suggests that Disney and Lucasfilm will begin making ‘Star Wars’ movies with lower budgets.

movieweb.com

Based on what we currently know, I doubt we will ever see this supposed second Disney trilogy. What's more likely is that we will see DW movies on Disney+ which will be very cheap and will probably focus on Rey only as neither Boyega or Isaac are interested in returning. If not that, its also possible based on messy production rumors that they will change Kenobi from a series back into a movie along with the not-Kyle Katarn show to save money while only keeping series as animated with the exception of the Mandalorian for the time being. We know season 2 is probably done and season 3 was in the works back in April, but it might be possible that season 3 may be the last before they make an animated spinoff.

 

[cjv97]

I remember how much of a pain they were in the Republic Commando games... they were the Marauders of their time

Never played the game wish I did but I actually did heard about how much a pain they were to fight, my first SW games was Revenge of the Sith, the MagnaGuard still my favorite droid along with Commando Droid in the Clone War Era, in one of the the Star Wars comic I love how Luke fought the MagnaGuard and I thought this was cool seeing them in the Imperial Era kinda like Imagining Grievous against Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi against Krell or Anakin Skywalker against Maul.

 

[Ihavetinyweewee]

Kathleen is pure evil and the sooner she gets destroyed the better. I thought they would have fired her ass by now?
She reminds me of Barbara Broccoli in that they're both pure evil. Broccoli refusing a female or poc Bond, Kathleen for ruining the franchise.

Wtf are you babbling about Jelly? Even though I'm open to a black Bond. I don't know how the fuck a female Bond even works. A female 00 agent, alright(you're getting that).

But, a gendered swaped James Bond? Wtf is the point? It's not even the character anymore...

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Wtf are you babbling about Jelly? Even though I'm open to a black Bond. I don't know how the fuck a female Bond even works. A female 00 agent, alright(you're getting that).

But, a gendered swaped James Bond? Wtf is the point? It's not even the character anymore...

Just from things I've read shes essentially your typical arsehole

 

[White Devil]

God, we talking first SW games? I think mine was the Nintendo version of ANH. That game was stupidly hard. I remember when my dad got me an SNES, he got me all the Super SW games with them and they were ball breakers too.

 

[Cactuar King]

God, we talking first SW games? I think mine was the Nintendo version of ANH. That game was stupidly hard. I remember when my dad got me an SNES, he got me all the Super SW games with them and they were ball breakers too.

Mine was Shadows of the Empire. I remember replaying the Hoth snowspeeder level over and over again because of how much fun I had with it.

 

[White Devil]

I think in 1996, besides the Xwing and TIE Fighter games, Shadows was probably the biggest and best SW game out there. The whole media blitz LucasArts did for SOTE was insane. I had all the Kenner figures for it.

 

[XYZpdq]

God, we talking first SW games?

the old vector arcade game

 

[White Devil]

the old vector arcade game

I remember my old Chuck E Cheese had that and I was always playing that fucker when we went there.

 

[Creep3r]

God, we talking first SW games? I think mine was the Nintendo version of ANH. That game was stupidly hard. I remember when my dad got me an SNES, he got me all the Super SW games with them and they were ball breakers too.

First played or first owned?

The Super Star Wars was the first one I could afford.

(Pictured: Young farm boy wishing he had his T-16)

The whole thing was a joy up until the final level. No matter how much I tried I just couldn't make it to the end of the trench. I did eventually though after replaying it a few years ago.

As for first played, I think it might've been the vector arcade game.

 

[White Devil]

The Super Star Wars games all had passwords too for different levels. I don't remember if the first one did but I know ESB and ROTJ did.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

(there was also a moment where he expressed disdain for the Kaminoans using clones to repel the Empire—I couldn’t tell if that was a reference to the Clone Rebellion mission from the OG Battlefront II, but if it is, that’s really cool to get his reaction to that).

I would guess that this was a conscious reference to the Battlefront II mission, since Traviss worked closely, and was quite friendly with, LucasArts continuity editor Ryan Kaufman, who was also the content coordinator for the original Battlefront game (she also had a pronounced habit, contrary to her internet reputation, of working in obscure bits of lore into her books, like Djinn Altis, an obscure Clone Wars-era rogue Jedi whose prior footprint consisted of being name-dropped a couple of times in the Bantam era).

Some people might object to all these details about Fett distracting from the narrative, but I’m not too bothered by it. If what I’ve researched is correct, in terms of publishing, these portions of the book were the first major updates regarding Boba Fett’s exploits after ROTJ since, what, the Bantam novels and Dark Horse comics in the 90’s?

More or less, yes.

I would be lying if I said I was at all interested in Boba’s side of the story…which I wasn’t. I like the character fine, but following his doddering exploits in search of “muh cure” and “muh abandoned daughter” did nothing for me, and never matched the emotional weight of what was going on with the rest of the story.

I found it a rather pleasant leavening of the unremitting gloom of the main story, personally. Seeing Boba reconnect with his estranged family made for an interesting contrast with Han's family starting to fall apart, and contributed a certain additional poignancy to the proceedings, given that the EU had long established that Fett and Solo had a subdued but long-running grudge/rivalry where each would in turn get the upper-hand over the other (sometimes several times in the space of one text, as in A.C. Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy). It felt in many ways, to me, like a long-form call-back to the end of Daniel Keyes-Moran's short story "Last One Standing: The Tale of Boba Fett" which concludes with an aging Fett and Solo facing off one last time, each uncertain of whether to pull the trigger or just walk away.

Like, what possessed Karen Traviss to think that the best course of action was to take the reader, who is still preoccupied with Jacen Solo’s character drama that Aaron Alliston spent the entire previous book establishing as the basis for this current story arc, and hand-cuff them to an infinitely less relevant plot about Boba Fett and his retarded Punished Snake melodrama? Why this, and more importantly, why now?

As you said, Fett and the Mandalorians are going to be playing an expanded part in this series, so there was some narrative necessity to bringing the readers up to speed on what they were/had been up to in recent years. Maybe it would have been better if Del Rey had given Traviss a standalone book to explore everything that had happened with the Mandalorians as a whole since the Clone Wars, but that never happened for whatever reason, so all of the plot threads that Traviss had set up regarding events in motion on Mandalore over the course of the Republic Commando series (particular the Mandalorian clans starting to regroup and consolidate under Fenn Shysa's leadership for the first time in centuries) had to be addressed within the bounds of LOTF.

Also, another gripe I had was that prologue of Boba Fett in first person—that shit was cringe to read, and felt like the author getting physical arousal at writing Fett as the most “too-cool-for-you” edgelord in the universe. The prose is so try-hard and reads so much like a Sonic OC bio that I half expected Boba to at one point go: “Psh. Nothing personnel, kid.”

I didn't get that. The prologue was pretty matter-of-fact, and relatively terse, reflecting Fett's established character tics while bringing the reader up-to-speed on his immediate preoccupations for the purposes of the LOTF series (to whit: he's getting old, his body is starting to break down, he needs to figure out who's going to be the next Mand'alor and he's more and more starting to wonder whatever became of his estranged offspring).

Speaking on the conflict itself, it’s actually taking more shape in this book. The American Civil War parallels are even more apparent in this book, what with Traviss going out of her way to establish the growing tensions and divisions brought about by it…not just between the Coruscanti and the Corellians, but within the Skywalker-Solo families. A lot of Han’s Inner Monologue about his conflicting feelings about his son being involved in the Corellian attack and his daughter siding with the New Republic, how familial ties and political leanings are at odds with each other, is a particular highlight. I want to see more scenes like this and the Dinner Argument from Betrayal, as Civil War media (being a passion of mine) mines some of its greatest storytelling from the narrative drama of families being divided by the war.

Interesting. Do you think Traviss was consciously/deliberately playing on parallels with the War of Northern Aggression?

Also, remember how I said that LOTF continues to cement the idea of the Swarm War being utterly irrelevant? Jacen utters this line about the oncoming Civil War:

“I don’t think the galaxy could endure another war so soon after the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.”​

Fucking ouch. The Swarm War was such a minor nothing on the protagonists’ radar that it doesn’t even come up in a conversation about the state of the galaxy. Troy Denning can’t catch a break, the poor fucker.

He'll always have Star By Star... ❤

I'm prefacing this by admitting I like most of Karen Travis' EU books. Mississippi Mourning gives a pretty good breakdown of her here.

I get the feeling that KT, like Kathleen Kennedy doesn't actually like SW per se. She likes an aspect of SW specifically Mando's and their culture and eventually because her focus was on her wants and preferences and not the well being of the overall whole it shows up in her work. Unlike KK I dont think KT hates SW. But that's the line.

Having also read most of Traviss's EU books, I don't think that that's really a fair comparison. She definitely loves the Mandalorians and dislikes the (Prequel) Jedi, but there's quite a quantum leap from "particularly likes one aspect and particularly dislikes one aspect" to "actively hates SW and everything that it represents" as seems to be the case with Kennedy. Also, it's not as though EU authors favoring a particular character or faction was unknown prior to Traviss's induction into the writers' circle, as can be seen with Zahn and Thrawn/the Chiss, Michael Stackpole and Corran Horn/Rogue Squadron, John Ostrander and Quinlan Vos, or what have you.

God, we talking first SW games? I think mine was the Nintendo version of ANH. That game was stupidly hard. I remember when my dad got me an SNES, he got me all the Super SW games with them and they were ball breakers too.

I started playing SW vidya so young I can't actually recall what my first was. Maybe Rebel Assault? I certainly remember feeling a little cheated that I didn't have full control over my starfighter.