Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Newsflash Rian Johnson isn't a bad filmmaker. His name isn't a bad word that suddenly negates an argument or point being made. You are attempting what would be called the "genetic fallacy". TLJs problem is it is a HORRIBLE sequel more than it being a bad movie. How do we know this? Because for as bad as some people believe the prequels to be they did not kill the fanbase. TLJ's issue isnt "subverting expectations", it's making established characters do and say things that runs contrary to who they were in previous movies. There is nothing in the prequels that does this even. It literally cannot happen as there was no information prior to the prequels coming out that they could run contrary to.

>guy in sole charge of sequel fucks it up
>in a piss easy to do franchise like star wars
>but he's not a bad filmmaker you guys!

admiral danger hair and ruin's asian fapbait are new characters that are terribly written in a terrible story with horrible pacing where hardly anything makes sense, sequel or not. it also means fuck all what he did outside star wars when it's him shitting all over star wars. and it's not like the list of his works is publicly available to compare, but hey...

I think that a lot of people who claim to hate the Prequels blindly believed Mike Stoklasa's bullshit. The Plinkett "reviews" are funny but it's a bunch of crap with bits of behind the scenes taken out of context. What Stoklasa did was the movie critic equivalent of Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11. He pulled the same stunt with the Indy 4 review, blaming Lucas and forgetting the guy who was actually behind the camera, the same guy who made Tintin and Reddit Player One.
I'm sure I'm going to get some negative votes but one day you people will understand, lol

he shat on spielberg too tho, iirc it was more about spielberg not giving a shit. but still pointing out some bits he liked where spielberg actually did good work.

as for the prequel reviews, the whole plinkett parts make it pretty obvious how it's meant, it's just retards being retarded regurgitating shit to the point it becomes it's own meme that was already dank the minute they laughed about it. personally I'm more annoyed that all the people that should know better fell for it too, lucas included.
 
Newsflash Rian Johnson isn't a bad filmmaker. His name isn't a bad word that suddenly negates an argument or point being made. You are attempting what would be called the "genetic fallacy". TLJs problem is it is a HORRIBLE sequel more than it being a bad movie. How do we know this? Because for as bad as some people believe the prequels to be they did not kill the fanbase. TLJ's issue isnt "subverting expectations", it's making established characters do and say things that runs contrary to who they were in previous movies. There is nothing in the prequels that does this even. It literally cannot happen as there was no information prior to the prequels coming out that they could run contrary to.

I haven't seen Knives Out yet, but given the critical and fan response, I kind of agree that Johnson isn't a bad filmmaker. I do, however, think he was the wrong guy to be allowed anywhere near Star Wars. FWIW, I think the same can be said about Chuck Wendig and Star Wars novelizations. Wendig isn't a bad writer, I liked Blackbirds, but he was very much the wrong guy to be allowed anywhere near Star Wars, even the debased Disney version.

Anyway, TLJ was a bad, incoherent and sloppy movie that had a few passable moments given that Disney can afford the best in soundtracks, the best in editing and the best in cinematography. Kind of like a world class orchestra lead by a conductor who's tone deaf. In this case conducting a self-composed score scribbled on the back of an envelope. And it was much worse when grafted onto or into the Star Wars oeuvre, of course, but we have thousands of words dissecting that bit here alone, so I'll stop here.
 
I never understood the appeal of Battlefront. The first one felt pretty lame compared to other games at the time and compared to games that came before it. Games like Team Fortress, Tribes, and (about a year later) Battlefield 2 were better in every way.

On the other hand, the single player Star Wars games of that era are really good as were a lot of the older ones. But Star Wars games in general appear to have lost a lot of momentum in the past 15 years. They just aren't that good.
 
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So after much delay, here are my thoughts on the second LOTF Entry, Bloodlines. The reason for this delay has everything to do with the book itself, as I will explain later.

With this being my first brush up against Karen Traviss’ work, I went in with many reservations. She’s arguably the most controversial EU writer after Troy Denning (and possibly Kevin J. Anderson, depending on who you ask). Her insatiable Mando obsession, her moral soapbox tirades against the Jedi, her scalding interactions with critics…hell, the number of heated discussions she’s sparked on this very thread should be a testament to how contested her work is. And although her…penchant for writing Mando characters is definitely front and center, I didn’t hate it as much as I thought I would.

Boba Fett’s characterized the way you’d expect, and I think Traviss did a good job with his dialogue. They feel in-character for him without feeling too excessive or edgy, and it’s easy to picture Temura Morrison saying these kind of lines in that Kiwi voice of his. I also like the prose around his dialogue, where he’ll says something callous and harsh to preserve his uncompromising Mando image, while the prose will detail what actual uncertainties or reservations are running through his mind. His conversation with the Kaminoan scientist in the beginning is a good example of this, especially when closeted feelings about his childhood and his attitude towards the Clone Army are revealed (there was also a moment where he expressed disdain for the Kaminoans using clones to repel the Empire—I couldn’t tell if that was a reference to the Clone Rebellion mission from the OG Battlefront II, but if it is, that’s really cool to get his reaction to that). Some people might object to all these details about Fett distracting from the narrative, but I’m not too bothered by it. If what I’ve researched is correct, in terms of publishing, these portions of the book were the first major updates regarding Boba Fett’s exploits after ROTJ since, what, the Bantam novels and Dark Horse comics in the 90’s? Considering Fett and the Mandalorians play a bigger role than cameos in this story arc, and with more information on Fett’s backstory being available now that AOTC had been released, I’m not surprised that Traviss would commit time to getting the reader up to date on what Fett’s been up to. Having said all that, I would be lying if I said I was at all interested in Boba’s side of the story…which I wasn’t. I like the character fine, but following his doddering exploits in search of “muh cure” and “muh abandoned daughter” did nothing for me, and never matched the emotional weight of what was going on with the rest of the story.

Because if I have any real gripes with the new focus on the Fett and the Mandos, it’s the timing. This really didn’t need to be the first thing to be addressed in the wake of the major events of the previous book. Boba Fett having butt cancer and needing to hunt down Taun We really has fuck all to do with the Corellian Uprising, Lumiya’s return, Jacen’s downfall, or really anything for at least 2/3rds of the book. Even the element of his daughter eying Thrackan-Sal’s contract on the Solo Family boils down to settling her daddy issues with Boba than the overarching plot at hand. And even though it eventually intersects with the main plot way later in the book, by then it feels too unimportant and inconsequential compared to everything else for me to care. Like, what possessed Karen Traviss to think that the best course of action was to take the reader, who is still preoccupied with Jacen Solo’s character drama that Aaron Alliston spent the entire previous book establishing as the basis for this current story arc, and hand-cuff them to an infinitely less relevant plot about Boba Fett and his retarded Punished Snake melodrama? Why this, and more importantly, why now? This all could’ve easily been pushed to Book #3 of this story arc…not the very next thing we read after Jacen decapitates a fellow Jedi Knight and takes his first steps towards Sith teachings. For fuck’s sake. Also, another gripe I had was that prologue of Boba Fett in first person—that shit was cringe to read, and felt like the author getting physical arousal at writing Fett as the most “too-cool-for-you” edgelord in the universe. The prose is so try-hard and reads so much like a Sonic OC bio that I half expected Boba to at one point go: “Psh. Nothing personnel, kid.” Keep in mind, I don’t hate the inclusion of this sub-plot, and enjoyed portions of it—particularly the reunion of Fett and the Solo’s, due to great interactions—but the implementation was laughable. I can certainly see why this a major point of contention for EU fans.

Now, the juiciest part of this book, and what I’m rapidly coming to enjoy the most about LOTF overall, is the family drama. Jacen’s decision to become a Colonel in the Alliance’s Anti-Terror effort does not go ignored…it rattles both Skywalker and Solo families, causing divide as some members side with him and others are horrified by what he’s doing. It all especially works because unlike most Dark Side Turns, he hasn’t leapt to pure evil yet, and is operating legally and pacifistically…but his pragmatic measures create a ton of revulsion in Han, Jaina, and especially Luke, all of which is in-character and written superbly. Some of the scenes with Mara and Luke debating whether or not they want their son being contaminated by Jacen’s influence, along with the arguments staged between Luke and Jacen, felt so real at times that I sometimes completely phased out of caring about the Civil War being waged, and more about the quiet but gut-wrenching scenes unfolding in the Senate Offices and Apartments. Those horrible moments where the characters return to their homes wracked from battle or politics and realize in hollow defeat that they can’t relieve stress by talking it out with their family anymore…because the family rift has forced them to sever contact with each other. The more I read LOTF, the more I realize that this bitter family division might be the core asset of this story arc, the same way the philosophical drama of the Force and the Vong was to NJO.

The more of Jacen’s scenes that I read, the more I feel like this series is going to give NJO a run for its money in terms of pure, heart-wrenching tragedy. NJO allowed for a lot of levity and emotional relief from its more harrowing moments…but LOTF is just constant, wracking sadness, all well-earned and spectacularly written. And if it’s one thing I can credit Traviss for, it’s for writing Jacen’s self-loathing and helpless descent just as well as Alliston, sometimes better. But part of that can be attributed to her not shoe-horning comedy where it doesn’t belong like Alliston, which helped the tonal consistency of the story tremendously.

Scenes like that desperate message that Jacen types for Jaina then deletes, or the sleepless night he spends thinking about his wife and daughter that he can’t see, all tug at the heart strings. You can see that he’s struggling under his uncertainty in the bad decisions he’s making, and doesn’t feel like he can bring his anxieties to anyone. It’s the kind of conflicted helplessness that I hear Disney Drones inexplicably credit the ST for showing in Crylo Ren, despite it barely materializing in the actual films at all. Also, unlike that lip-quivering brat, Jacen is actually shown to be doing everything with the misguided belief that he’s saving everyone—and that for all of his stupid decisions, he still loves his family, and wants them to stay alive. He doesn’t even want to kill Luke like Kylo does (at least, at the stage that I’m reading), if anything, he’s trying to do what his uncle isn’t willing to do, to protect him from his own weaknesses. And probably the most bitter aspect of Jacen’s turn, as the shock and horror of his actions start turning the heads of people in his personal life, is watching him forcefully—but miserably—cut ties with the rest of his family with every act of necessity he takes. The distrust he instills in Luke, the vile resentment he creates in Jaina…and then, the final scene. Those of you who’ve read this book know the one I mean: the one where Jacen returns the Falcon to his parents—who are waiting with full knowledge of what he’s done in a certain interrogation room—and they greet him the same way the heartbroken and horrified parents of a school shooter would. Let me tell you, as someone who watched the Solo Family grow and bond together as early as Young Jedi Knights, this scene was fucking heart-breaking, especially what Han says to his son right before they depart. I would almost compare it to the frigid confrontation between Han and Anakin Solo in Vector Prime after the Serpindal Moon scene, but this scene actually defies nature and is even more of an emotional, sickening gut punch than even that. I know people accuse the “Denningsverse” books as being gore porn, but I disagree. This is outright misery porn. If there’s been a noticeable gap between this post and the one I made on Betrayal, it’s only because this book was a struggle to get through, because I couldn’t make it three chapters without needing to do something, anything else to not sink into a reclusive state of depression.

And I want to be clear about this: this should all be considered mountainous praise. Oh, this book was depressing, but it was a good kind of depressing…the kind where you can’t help but marvel at how well the author is achieving their goal. For however dark or bleak this book got, not a single part of it felt unearned. This wasn’t a bad 90’s anime or Zack Snyder film, not an exercise in navel-gazing angst or forced superficial melodrama. Everything about Jacen’s parts of the story felt measured, understated and psychological…everything I didn’t expect to see again after NJO, or in these relentless quantities. And I know it’s cliché to parrot at this point, but the more of Jacen’s downfall I read, the more I’m flabbergasted that we didn’t get something like this from the ST. How did three random authors—X-Wing writer, a Mando fetishist, and a Gorehound, all with conflicting interests and writing styles—manage to convey a character’s downfall better than a multi-million dollar movie trilogy with infinitely more resources and star power? It’s fucking unbelievable how amateurish these books make the ST look, even with the myriad of problems they have.

The other effective thing this book does is that it firmly establishes the difference between Jacen’s swerve to the Dark Side, and Anakin’s. Rather than do what the ST did with Kylo, clambering fruitlessly at replicating Anakin’s conflict verbatim, this book makes a conscious effort to show Jacen learning about his grandfather’s downfall (even using the Force to explore the bloody memories that ensued in the Coruscant Jedi Temple during the night of Order 66), and definitively saying that he will rise above making the same mistakes his grandfather did…and never compromise his morals or his loved ones, no matter how much of the Dark Side he embraces for the “right reasons”. This is something I definitely appreciate, as this story arc is taking careful measures as to not repeat the events of the films, and even deconstruct them…again, as opposed to the ST, which simply regurgitates the same cycle of events as its preceding trilogy for no narrative gain whatsoever. The other thing that really separates Jacen from Anakin during this phase is that in some ways…he’s actually scarier. There’s a scene in this book where Jacen interrogates a prisoner and accidentally kills her, in front of his apprentice Ben. The thing that makes this scene so unsettling to me is how unnaturally back to normal and caring Jacen goes back to when Ben expresses discomfort at what he sees, saying that the boy can return home to his parents and that this all might be too much for him. He does these cold, calculating things, and still remains in-character and with his master-student bond with Ben intact. There’s no murderous angry shift like you see with Anakin…he’s just the same logical and assertive Jacen he’s grown to be through NJO and Dark Nest, but applying that logic to scary conclusions.

Speaking on the conflict itself, it’s actually taking more shape in this book. The American Civil War parallels are even more apparent in this book, what with Traviss going out of her way to establish the growing tensions and divisions brought about by it…not just between the Coruscanti and the Corellians, but within the Skywalker-Solo families. A lot of Han’s Inner Monologue about his conflicting feelings about his son being involved in the Corellian attack and his daughter siding with the New Republic, how familial ties and political leanings are at odds with each other, is a particular highlight. I want to see more scenes like this and the Dinner Argument from Betrayal, as Civil War media (being a passion of mine) mines some of its greatest storytelling from the narrative drama of families being divided by the war. Also, remember how I said that LOTF continues to cement the idea of the Swarm War being utterly irrelevant? Jacen utters this line about the oncoming Civil War:

“I don’t think the galaxy could endure another war so soon after the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.”

Fucking ouch. The Swarm War was such a minor nothing on the protagonists’ radar that it doesn’t even come up in a conversation about the state of the galaxy. Troy Denning can’t catch a break, the poor fucker.

However, with all this praise directed at the book (and my middling acceptance of the controversial Mando stuff), I have two massive complaints: the first of which is in regards to what I said earlier about Traviss retaining tone where Alliston seemingly could not. As I mentioned in my megapost on Betrayal, Alliston had a teeth-grittingly frequent tendency to insert cringey Whedon-esque jokes where they didn’t belong, hobbling the dramatic tension and immersion of several scenes. Chief among them was a painfully self-aware and fart-huffing “Han Shot First” joke that came out of fucking nowhere, and utterly shattered immersion. For almost the entirety of Bloodlines, Traviss was showing a notable improvement in this aspect, refraining from unbalancing the tone of her book with any needless humor….and then the scene where Boba Fett’s daughter murders Thrackan-Sal before Han Solo can, and Boba makes a comment about Han “needing to learn to shoot first, and I almost threw the fucking book outside of my top-story apartment window. Fucking really? Do we need to shoe-horn this retarded Special Edition joke into EVERY ENTRY in this series? Note to EU authors everywhere: this knuckle-dragging, glue-scarfing, tired-ass meme wasn’t funny in 1997, it wasn’t funny in 2006, and it isn’t funny now. Shoe-horning this joke into dramatic scenes of all things is the literary equivalent of Steve Buschemi hauling two skateboards and asking how his fellow kids are doing, so fucking stop.

My second big complaint is that, yet again, the author has opted to barely use the existing Jedi Characters established in NJO…and this is really starting to make my blood boil. This isn’t even just about Tahiri Veila anymore (although that would be a legitimate starting point of contention, considering she has the most narrative potential to exploit, and the authors seem deterimined to do fuck all with her, which is really getting on my last nerve), the story practically ignores all of the young Jedi Knight characters, for reasons that utterly elude me. Hey, Karen…maybe instead of dedicating half the book to touching yourself to your favorite oily Kiwi Bounty Hunter, consider utilizing some of the existing Jedi Order Members to contribute to the narrative. I mean, for fuck’s sake…you have Jacen Solo join the Galactic Alliance equivalent of the East Berlin Stasi, generating daily controversy on Galactic HoloNews, and getting publicly compared to Darth Vader. You really don’t think some of the other members of the Jedi Order could offer some profound reactions to what’s going on? I mean, get why series regulars like Corran Horn and Kyle Katarn’s reactions were relegated to only a few pages…they’re technically the ‘old guard’ at this point, pushing into their 60’s. But why isn’t Kyp Durron given more to do? What about Tahiri Veila? What about Lowbacca, or Tenel Ka? Hell, Zekk is in this book, but he has barely anything to do or contribute. These are people that Jacen grew up with, his close friends, his companions of the fucking Yuuzhan Vong War. You’d think they would be the first people to react to their best friend wreaking havoc in a black uniform with a secret police SWAT Team on live television. What the fuck is preoccupying them off-page, exactly? Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice that Jaina’s part of the main drama—finally—but having the other Solo Twin react to her brother’s dark descent is kind of a no-brainer, literally the most basic thing I would expect to be addressed in a story arc like this. Whether Traviss or Alliston care or not, it is their obligation to make use of the carry-over characters from NJO…not invent arbitrary one-use Jedi for killing off and boosting Jacen’s arc, or Mando characters to sideline the main plot. I hear a lot of complaints about LOTF regarding its “grimdark tone” and “unbelievable arc for Jacen” and “focus on Mandos”, but this is the only problem with this series that is actively turning me livid, because it is the LAST fucking blunder I would expect from professional authors to struggle with this late in the EU’s lifespan. You have rich and well-developed characters, so for God’s sake make use of them. I’ve been really fucking lenient on this series’ flaws, but I’m about to enter the 1/3rd mark with Tempest, and if they still haven’t fixed this problem, that lenience is going evaporate.

So those are my experiences with Bloodlines, a book I’m relieved to say is, for the most part, as good if not better than Betrayal was. To be honest, I was expecting a lot worse considering the things I’ve heard about this series, and Traviss’ contributions in particular, and the quality of the book left me pleasantly surprised. With the almost unanimously bad things I’ve heard about both this story arc and its follow-up, FOTJ, I’ve spent my reading constantly wary about the moment that the quality supposedly takes a swan-dive, and I still haven’t encountered it yet.

But I’m only two books in, and the next one’s by everyone’s favorite edgelord, Troy Denning, so I better not say anything two definitive. Alema Rar’s in the next book’s Dramatis Personae, so that’s encouraging at least.
Just wait until you get to the last book in the saga, every chapter is punctuated with something that is designed to make you feel terrible. If LotF is good at one thing, it's being incredibly depressing. That's probably the best way I could describe it without getting into actual quality. And yeah, there's some good one-liners sprinkled throughout the series.

Leia: "History decides who's a criminal, Jacen."
Caedus: "No, the law decides who's a criminal. History just forgives them."

Anyways, there's my weekly autistic check-in post.
 
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I never understood the appeal of Battlefront. The first one felt pretty lame compared to other games at the time and compared to games that came before it. Games like Team Fortress, Tribes, and (about a year later) Battlefield 2 were better in every way.

On the other hand, the single player Star Wars games of that era are really good as were a lot of the older ones. But Star Wars games in general appear to have lost a lot of momentum in the past 15 years. They just aren't that good.

Because at the time it was Battlefield with a Star Wars skin, and it was well executed within the confines of that type of game. It let a lot of people go at each other with a low barrier to entry, when before the biggest multiplayer lobby game was probably X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Battlefront 2 was an improvement in every way on Battlefront 1 though, especially that Galactic Conquest mode.
 
Because at the time it was Battlefield with a Star Wars skin, and it was well executed within the confines of that type of game. It let a lot of people go at each other with a low barrier to entry, when before the biggest multiplayer lobby game was probably X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Battlefront 2 was an improvement in every way on Battlefront 1 though, especially that Galactic Conquest mode.
My brother and I would play conquest mode all the time back when we were in high school/college. Brings back good memories.

KOTOR I&II and Jedi Academy were definitely my all-time favorites though. I wish they made KOTOR III but that got shit canned for the online Old Republic. I'm not a PC gamer so I have no idea if the game was any good or not.
 
My brother and I would play conquest mode all the time back when we were in high school/college. Brings back good memories.

KOTOR I&II and Jedi Academy were definitely my all-time favorites though. I wish they made KOTOR III but that got shit canned for the online Old Republic. I'm not a PC gamer so I have no idea if the game was any good or not.

TOR was not a good game. I can honestly tell you that the beta was fucking better than the launch product. They had removed a bunch of features the beta had for stupid reasons and didn't put them back in until months later due to player outrage. I got so MOTI that I actually set my Darth Malgus statue on fire in our firepit over how shit TOR came out. That was the last time I preordered a deluxe video game anything.
 
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TOR was not a good game. I can honestly tell you that the beta was fucking better than the launch product. They had removed a bunch of features the beta had for stupid reasons and didn't put them back in until months later due to player outrage. I got so MOTI that I actually set my Darth Malgus statue on fire in our firepit over how shit TOR came out. That was the last time I preordered a deluxe video game anything.
This one of the reasons why I don't play games on PC, because if they suck you can't return or exchange them. I also don't like MMORPG because if they suck no one plays and the game is basically worthless. Same thing happened with Star Wars: Galaxies, City of Heroes, and Fallout '76.
 
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My brother and I would play conquest mode all the time back when we were in high school/college. Brings back good memories.

KOTOR I&II and Jedi Academy were definitely my all-time favorites though. I wish they made KOTOR III but that got shit canned for the online Old Republic. I'm not a PC gamer so I have no idea if the game was any good or not.

It's modern day bioware. All you need to know.
 
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Dare I say that Rey is one handsome man?
Also I laugh that even with a sex change, Kylo Ren still looks the same
 
First off, I appreciate the kind words. It's nice to know that I'm wearing my thumbs numb over these novella-sized posts, and someone actually reads them.
Do keep them coming, please. 🙂

Which has a staggering irony, because as an avid Star Wars fan with no history with the EU (for the most part), Disney's decision to jetison that continuity created a very easy solution to my utter revulsion to The Farce Awakens by having an entire timeline's worth of comics and novels that would give me the creativity I sought, thus ushering me to decades of stories that were fresh and new to my inexperienced eyes, making me into a bigger and more rabid Star Wars fan than ever.

So, thank you Disney...thank you for making films and Nu-Canon material so incomprehensibly shit that I was forced to mine through a goldmine of superior stories, and revitalizing my interest in the franchise.
"Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes."

-J.R.R. Tolkien

This, ladies and Kiwi's, was my gateway drug into Star Wars games. Empire At War, KOTOR, Battlefront 1, Jedi Outcast, Republic and a two-week subscription to Star Wars Galaxies. In a time before Steam and GOG.com existed, and I was a dinky little kid with a low-end PC and strapped for allowance, this was a fucking Godsend...$30 at my local Circuit City.

Greatest summer of gaming, that was.
You're making me think of that one summer when my brothers and I befriended this one kid in our neighborhood specifically because he owned the latest game in the Jedi Knight series...😅

If that's true, it's really fucking cool. Things like that are part of why I like the EU so much, because now I'm going to form a stronger connection to that level in Battlefront II whenever I replay it. It's like coming off of Shadows of the Empire, and having that squarely on the mind when re-watching ESB, knowing that when Vader talks to the Emperor via hologram outside of the asteroid field, Prince Xizor is listening in and already formulating his big scheme to outshine Vader.

It makes the universe feel bigger and more enriched...as opposed to what it is now under Disney: suffocatingly-small and sapped dry.


Some parts of the big investigation of Taun We and his vengeful daughter kind of dragged ass, or at least didn't grab me like the main plot did. I suppose it's because I haven't really delved into a lot of the Boba Fett content of the Bantam era, or most of the works you referenced. It's possible that I would probably have a larger appreciation for it if I did.
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As a dyed-in-the-wool Fandalorian going back to...oh, the age of about seven, I was quite delighted that Traviss was weaving these obscure bits of Boba's scattered backstory into the narrative, because, (I'm assuming) like many other fans, I'd been snapping up every little bit of Boba Fett/Mandalorian content that I could get my hands on, and not all of it was what you'd call mainstream EU content. In full, they constituted a crazy-quilt patchwork of novels, short stories, one-shots and mini-series in the comics and the odd Star Wars Insider article, the latter of which were often necessary to keep track of whether an appearance by Fett in a given story was actually Fett himself or an impersonator trading on the bounty hunter's name and reputation for various reasons (these could and did include not just Jodo Kast, but also Fett's daughter Ailyn, according to an Insider retcon of the Young Jedi Knights series' "Diversity Alliance" arc, and even Grand Admiral Thrawn on at least one occasion). That Traviss actually wove so many of these tangled skeins into the Boba Fett sub-plot in LOTF actually felt like a reward for keeping up to speed on Fett's exploits over the years.

I really think the bolded would've been the optimal solution. Del Rey is no stranger to having supplementary books between story arcs that deal with vital information (they had Rogue Planet act as a spin-off info dump for NJO, for instance). I feel like if they had enabled Traviss that luxury, she wouldn't have felt pressed to cram twenty years' worth of narrative catchup as well as Republic Commando plot threads into the second entry of an already high-stakes story arc.
Right. It probably didn't help that the Mandalorians were completely MIA throughout the NJO series until The Unifying Force, when James Luceno had to belatedly remind everyone that they were still alive and kicking (and to his further credit, he did give them a very kickass appearance in that book, with a Mandalorian strike-force punching through the Yuuzhan Vong like 7.62 FMJ hitting sheet-metal).

Traviss would later try to explain what the Mandos had been up to during the Vong War in the 2006 short story "A Practical Man" which proposed that Boba Fett, in his capacity as the newly-minted Mandalore following the death of Fenn Shysa, decided on a tactic of appearing to cooperate with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the Galaxy (while passing intelligence gained in the process to the New Republic) until such time as the ruse would inevitably become untenable and open hostilities between the Mandos and the Vong would commence. The story engendered a certain amount of controversy amongst Traviss's detractors for having Vergere describe the Mandalorians as the third party in a sort of trinity of galactic conflict with the Jedi and Sith, but considering that according to the EU timeline pre-Disney, the Mandalorians had been affecting the course of Galactic history since before the foundation of the Republic itself, it's not an unreasonable position.

Personally, I thought that the whole story was kind of unnecessary, and that it would have been better to just have someone mention that the Mandos had been fighting the Vong all along out in the far reaches of the Galaxy, away from the New Republic's main area of influence.

Meh. I found it a try-hard slog to read...but it was short, at least. It got the job done narratively, I just didn't like how the prose was handled, myself.
De gustibus non est disputandum, I suppose. I'm not really sure how else you'd write that sort of vignette from the perspective of an aging "been there, done that" Boba Fett.

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It wouldn't be outlandish, considering that Star Wars has taken elements of real-world conflicts before. We see the Galactic Alliance do a lot of sketchy, unconstituitional things to mitigate the civil unrest on Coruscant, as well as to literally linger like a guillotine over Corellian orbit to ensure they don't misbehave. You could draw parallels to any number of nations in history throwing their weight around in a similar fashion, but it's the Corellians' attitude and response to this treatment that rings true of the American Civil War. Remember, that Alliston very consciously characterized the Corellians as haughty and prideful, determined to be independent of an aggressive foreign power...which is pretty much the way the way the South saw itself against everything North of Virginia by the late 1800's.
Back in the day, I got fed up with the LOTF series pretty quickly and ended up going into a bit of a self-imposed exile from all things Star Wars for quite some time (largely because I was frustrated by the idea that the Galaxy was going to pieces in another major war so soon after the Vong invasion) so I never really thought about real-world parallels and inspirations for the events of the series. Thinking about it now, I can absolutely see where you're coming from, especially concerning the Corellians, who, in hindsight, really do have some pretty noteworthy parallels with American Southerners.

Above and beyond Allston's haughty, prideful and stubbornly independent characterization, Corellians have been stereotyped for decades as charming, often reckless rogues with quick trigger-fingers and a natural aptitude for piloting, which maps rather neatly over a lot of stereotypes of Southerners in the 19th century and beyond (charm, penchant for dueling, great flair for horsemanship/cavalry tactics, etc, etc). Somewhat mirroring the historically outsized Southern presence in the American military, Corellians are probably also the most warlike of all the major human cultures (beating out the Mandalorians by virtue of the Mandos not being a strictly human culture), with many of the Galaxy's most renowned military men in the general movie era originally hailing from Corellia, including Wedge Antilles, Soontir Fel, Garm Bel Iblis and Gilaad Pellaeon (Han and Lando could count as well, although they generally prefer to outrun or outsmart their foes rather than fighting, despite both of them being highly-capable soldiers in their own right).

Corellia itself, too, is often depicted as a rather bucolic, pastoral world (Soontir Fel's family were literal farmers, for example) despite the seemingly never-ending variety of small freighters that the planet produces commercially, in dire contrast with their hyper-industrialized neighbors like Coruscant. I guess you could probably work in the Selonians as a parallel for something as well but I don't want to belabor the point any further right now.

Han's bitter monologue at the family table in Betrayal mirrors this quite profoundly, and then in Traviss' book we see the same attitude play out in street riots and tense confrontations in space.
There's an interesting moment in one of Traviss's Republic Commando books where one of the eponymous commandos observes that neither Mandalorians nor Corellians enjoy "being herded."

Damn right. Star By Star's a phenomenal book, easily in my Top 5 NJO Entries.
I've never been able to read it dry-eyed. It hits you, hard, but in a way that I think enhances the verisimilitude of the story rather than coming off like cheap shock tactics. It also has some moments of genuine, understated humor, like when the almost hilariously intimidating YVH Droids are hunting down Yuuzhan Vong infiltrators aboard a refugee ship and YVH-1, the droid squad-leader, is becoming increasingly worried about a possible malfunction in his targeting sensors, all the while keeping up the standard YVH mannerisms (like vocalizing "Maximum Efficiency!" whenever one of his squad takes down another infiltrator, which no one can convince me is not the battle-droid version of "Oorah!")

...Well, I thought it was funny, anyway.

He also did Tatooine Ghost, which I feel doesn't get a lot of credit or acknowledgement in EU circles, for some reason...I thought it was fantastic.

Yeah, it boils down to Han and Leia trying to hunt down a painting, but the scenes with Leia siphoning through Shmi Skywalker's journal, the scenes where she and Han uncover Anakin's childhood and his adult trek to rescue Shmi from the Sand People...that's the exactly the kind of creative opportunities to seize as more aspects of Star Wars become clear with the more films that are released, and Denning did.
Tatooine Ghost is, oddly, one of the very few EU books that I've never actually read, possibly because the premise of "Han and Leia hunt down a famous Alderaanian painting" didn't really grab my interest at the time. I've heard good things about it, though. Have to get a hold of a copy sometime soon...

This is a response to someone else's post, but I'm in full agreement here. I hear incessantly how Traviss likes to use her books as some kind of soapbox against the Jedi, when that doesn't seem to match the reality of the books themselves, at least the one I've read. You don't have chapters where a character is lecturing Luke Skywalker on why the Jedi are shit and don't work morally in a free society, functioning as a modern Marvel Comics-esque microphone to voice her stance without a shred of subtlety or nuance. The only intensely scathing perspective on the Jedi has either come from Jacen Solo (who's been highly critical of the Jedi Order's practices since NJO, with Dark Nest and LOTF essentially building off of his Rogue Jedi status and beliefs...to make him evil), and the Manalorians...you know, the exact people who would have an incredibly slanted and biased view against the Jedi. Boba Fett at one point calls the Jedi "pompous aristocrats who won the genetic lottery"...of course a group of non-Force sensitives who prioritize honor through combat would have that kind of bias against the Jedi, especially when they take moral stances in society.
I would definitely agree that Traviss is very good at getting inside the heads of the characters that she's writing, Mandalorian or not, and presenting their respective and differing points of view in a way that feels very organic to the characters in question. For example, ever since I started reading the Republic Commando series again, I've been quite fascinated by her depiction of the Clones' psychology. I'm gonna power-level a little bit here, but I have a lot of brothers. A lot of brothers whom I grew up in very close quarters with. A lot of brothers whom everyone we met was always commenting on how alike we all looked. As such, a lot of little details that Traviss throws in, like Clones not appearing identical to other Clones because they've spent their entire lives focusing on the minute individual differences that set them all apart from their brothers, hit me in a really profound and visceral way.

Of course, I'm not saying that Traviss is Teh Gratest Autor Evar. As you've sort of pointed out, she does have a tendency to occasionally descend into fan-girling, which is most clearly demonstrated, I think, in her Gears of War books, where it seems pretty obvious that she really likes the character of resident Cool Old Guy Col. Victor Hoffman, to the point of developing a romantic interest for him in the form of resident Cool Old Lady Bernadette "Bernie" Mataki, whom I'm tempted to think of as a fantasy author-insert for Traviss (I don't have much evidence for that beyond both of them being somewhat temperamental middle-aged women with a military background, though). It's somewhat leavened by the fact that Bernie is a fairly engaging character, and written with a generally-believable set of limitations within the Gears universe (there's one memorable incident where she decides to assert herself by knocking down the series' resident smartass Damon Baird, but she accomplishes this by hitting him on the pressure-point behind the ear, while acknowledging that the whole thing is a bit of a gamble, because if Baird, who despite being one of the smaller Gears is still built like a linebacker fed a steady diet of horse steroids, decides to press the issue, then he could easily snap her in half; much to her relief, he just laughs at her audacity when he gets back on his feet).

And at no point does the story, or the other non-Mandalorian characters, validate or lionize them for having that perspective.
This was, as I recall, a source of much contention with the Republic Commando series back in the day, with many people feeling that everyone in the books was unrealistically idealizing the Mandalorians, but...it makes sense in context. The main Clone characters were basically raised by their Mandalorian drill sergeants and consider them their surrogate fathers. The two main Jedi characters are young, inexperienced and idealistic Padawans who become increasingly disenchanted with the Order and its entanglement in the murky ethics of the Clone Wars, and gradually drift more and more into the orbit of the Kal Skirata character, whose almost monomaniacal devotion to the welfare of his Clone adopted sons provides a dramatically contrasting sense of purpose in a time when the Jedi Order as a whole seems more and more lost and confused. And there are indications that Mandalorians aren't as well-regarded outside of the small bubble that constitutes the protagonists' small section of the Grand Army of the Republic. Their immediate superior, Jedi General Arligan Zey, treats the Mandalorian influences on his troops (and the occasional rant about Clone rights and Jedi hypocrisy from the emotionally-volatile Kal Skirata) with a sort of weary resignation, but it's implied that his personal ARC Trooper, Captain Maze, finds the more overt examples of Mandalorian influence in the Grand Army to be a source of irritation. And then in the book True Colors, there's this exchange:

The loadmaster seemed satisfied that he had the correct consignments and stared at the commandos with a wary eye. He reached for the rail that ran along the bulkhead and hooked his safety line to it. "If it's any comfort, you look pretty sinister in that black rig. Even with the white wings. I don't think you're a bunch of Mando-loving weirdos at all..."

Fi gave him a bow. "May all your future deployments be with the Galactic Marines on 'fresher detail, ner vod."

But Atin could never pass things off as a joke. "What's your problem, pal?"

"Just wondering," said the loadmaster.

"Wondering what?"

"Mandos. You ever fought those guys? I have. They keep popping up in Sep Forces. They kill us. And you were raised as good little Mando boys. Is that who you feel you are?"

"Let's put it this way," said Fi. "I don't feel like a Republic citizen, because none of us are, in case you hadn't noticed. We don't exist. No vote, no identification docs, no rights."

Niner shoved Fi in the back. "One-Five, shut it. Loadmaster, wind your neck in and don't question our loyalty or I'll have to smack you. Now, let's get to work."

It was the first time that Darman could recall the of brotherhood among clones, - all clones, regardless of unit, faltering. The 2nd Airborne obvious had an issue with Mandalorians, and maybe the nearest they could kick were the Republic commandos, raised, trained, and educated mostly by Mandalorian sergeants like Skirata, Vau and Bralor. He thought it would be a bad omen for the mission. Yes, Sergeant Kal would be very upset to see this.


If it did, I would've spent fourteen pages complaining about it in my summary, because of the inexplicable anti-Jedi boner waved about by the horde of post-modern hipster twats that have poured into the fandom by way of the new movies, I've become increasingly fed up with everyone from fans to authors blaming the Jedi Order for every stray fart of misfortune in galactic history, attributing flaws and moral hypocrisies to them that Lucas never intended or advocated for. It's just as insufferable of every third asshole screeching about the Jedi being 'pacifists' or some shit.
I have somewhat complicated feelings on that point. While I abhor virtually everything that Disney has brought into the fandom, I started working my way through the EU somewhat chronologically, starting with Brian Daley's Han Solo Trilogy and moving on to Splinter of the Mind's Eye and other older books. As such, even though I was very young at the time, I did have a sense of how the fandom started to change after 1999, going from what I saw as a more balanced mix of Force-user vs non-Force-user characters and expressed preferences for the same on the part of fans to something resembling the All-Jedi, All-the-Time Show after the Prequels hit. Of course, Jedi are a foundational aspect of the Star Wars, but I remember a lot of people at that time becoming (in some cases) obnoxiously attached to the Jedi as shown in the Prequels, even to the point of arguing that Luke was running his new Jedi Order the "wrong" way in the EU because he wasn't doing things like they saw in the movies. This always frustrated me, because even then, I had the awareness that Lucas was deliberately setting up the PT Jedi Order to fail and thus vindicate/emphasize the rightness of Luke's choosing to embrace his emotional attachment to his father to try and redeem him.

And I'd also point out that last bit about you mentioned about authors favoring certain factions in their story...I'd like to voice my loud agreement with this, specifcally in regards to Timothy Zahn. I've refrained from bringing this up to avoid heat from other lorespergs, but this guy and his fucking boner for Thrawn and this Chiss has gotten ridiculous, especially in his new Thrawn books. He literally retconned 'Skywalker' to mean 'wayfinder' in the Chiss language. It's such an eye-rolling attempt to elevate the importance of the Chiss in the Star Wars galaxy, which is already doubly annoying thanks to Zahn making Thrawn an infallible super-genius in the Nu-Canon who can outsmart everyone and everything, and is fifteen lightyears ahead of the known villains like Vader and Palpatine.

He's a cowboy hat and a pudgy smirk away from being the Filoni of the Nu-Canon books, with his exhaustive "pet character" antics, and he'll probably crank it to 10 with his new Thrawn Ascendency novels.
I'm sorry to hear that. I've enjoyed just about everything I've ever read by Zahn, both his independent work like the Cobra series and his Star Wars output (up to Scoundrels in 2013, which is the most recent of his books that I've read). I was quite a fan of Thrawn and the Chiss back in the day, although even back then, I had a sense that both would need to be used very carefully and lightly to avoid tipping over into Mary-Sue territory. If Zahn is starting to mirror Filoni in that regard, well, that's disappointing, to put it mildly. 😐
 
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I think it dumb how in the Battle of Kamino episode it confirmed that Ventress and Grievous met for the first time face to face in the ARC Trooper episode.
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I also heard that the episode Lair of Grievous where Dooku wanted to test Grievous (because of his failure) is basically a Retcon of his fight against Ventress and Durge for the title of Commander to lead the CIS droid armies. Possibly meaning that this fight doesn't exist or fit in the timeline with the Filoni Wars.
I'm not sure if this is true or not.
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I've gotta say, I think @cjv97's ongoing Grievous-posting has given me a new appreciation for our favorite cyborg lizard-man. I never really thought too much about him before (although I was suitably impressed by his appearances in Genndy Wars) but all of this artwork and all of these GIFs (and the accompanying discussion) have made me re-evaluate the character, and I'm actually starting to think of his cold yellow eyes behind that bone-colored mask as one of the more evocative and arresting images of the Prequels... 🤔

That "ouch" is priceless. 😅

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Dare I say that Rey is one handsome man?
Also I laugh that even with a sex change, Kylo Ren still looks the same
Well, that's just uncomfortable...
 
So I finally finished the Fate of the Jedi books, I just have Crucible to go but I feel like re-reading the X-Wing books before going to the last book written for the EU. I'm on Krytos Trap right now and I honestly forgot what a pompous, pontificating ass Corran Horn was.

I honestly don't really like how they ended Vestara and Ben's arc, it doesn't make sense to me really because there's that gap in Skywalkers between Ben and Cade and I'm extremely curious in filling out the family tree. I know it will never happen now and all I have is speculation on if Ben and Ves made up in the future. I would have liked to see the Main Three retire in the EU eventually and the torch get passed to the next generation, i.e. Jaina, Kyp, Ben, Allana, etc because by the time Abeloth comes around they're all in their 60s. Han must be in his 70s. There's also the whole rise of the Fel Empire we don't get to see, just the fast forward to SW Legacy when the Fel Empire and the Imperial Knights are already a thing. I feel that could have been a good arc of books right there.

I know a lot of people think the whole Abeloth arc is ridiculous but I honestly didn't mind it. It's no more so than the Vong were first received nearly 20 years ago now, and how everyone hated them and the NJO books initially. There's really no way to properly challenge Luke without going into the ridiculous and this was clearly that. I would have liked to see the Lost Tribe of the Sith put up more of a fight than just becoming lackeys to Abeloth though, basically a new rise of the Sith Empire to force the GA to respond to it instead of the whole Lecersen Conspiracy, which I thought was kind of lame. The political intrigue in FOTJ felt extremely hamfisted and sloppy.

Overall, I know I'm just going to end up re-reading the old EU books for my SW novel fix because I refuse to touch the Disney shit. If I get desperate, I'll re-read the Battletech books again too.
 
I haven't seen Knives Out yet, but given the critical and fan response, I kind of agree that Johnson isn't a bad filmmaker. I do, however, think he was the wrong guy to be allowed anywhere near Star Wars. FWIW, I think the same can be said about Chuck Wendig and Star Wars novelizations. Wendig isn't a bad writer, I liked Blackbirds, but he was very much the wrong guy to be allowed anywhere near Star Wars, even the debased Disney version.

Anyway, TLJ was a bad, incoherent and sloppy movie that had a few passable moments given that Disney can afford the best in soundtracks, the best in editing and the best in cinematography. Kind of like a world class orchestra lead by a conductor who's tone deaf. In this case conducting a self-composed score scribbled on the back of an envelope. And it was much worse when grafted onto or into the Star Wars oeuvre, of course, but we have thousands of words dissecting that bit here alone, so I'll stop here.

I think it comes down to the definition of "bad". are you bad when you don't even see when a project is totally out of your league? or you don't give a shit about the franchise besides the prestige your project is in so you either phone it in or intentionally shit on it, while dismissing all criticism high on your own farts?
imagine a chef serving you a pancake shaped brick and when you point out it's literal shit you get hit with a tantrum how pancakes are beneath him and he doesn't like pancakces anyway - would you call that a bad chef because apparently he can't even get fucking pancakes right, not to mention do the job he literally gets paid for? (obvious food analogy is obvious)

and I don't mean peak consistency without ever fucking up, that's part of growing. but it still matters how and why you fuck up and what your takeaway is - some fuck-ups in hind sight can be great even. and that's the difference between the prequels and nuwars.
 
This is a response to someone else's post, but I'm in full agreement here. I hear incessantly how Traviss likes to use her books as some kind of soapbox against the Jedi, when that doesn't seem to match the reality of the books themselves, at least the one I've read.

Every Republic commando book after Hard Contact. Revelations is peak Travissity.

Oh, she also posted her views on her blog. She views the Jedi as ubermenchen who owned a slave army? I mean, they agreed to lead them, that's it. Traviss doesn't seem to understand the Jedis role in the Republic. But hey, their the morally reprehensible ones, not Jango who sold his tissue to them to create said army.


There is legitimate criticism to lay at the Jedi's feet. The problem is her criticism is disconnected from reality. The Jedi are servants of a corrupt Republic who refuse to accept agency and tolerate its decadent evils. They aren't a ruling class. They have no children, make no policy, and their Order is based on children strong in the Force, which occurs throughout the galaxies races and genders. The biggest conflict between the Jedi and the Sith is that very issue, who should rule. Palpatine and the Sith believe that those with the Force will rule better than those without it.

And I'd also point out that last bit about you mentioned about authors favoring certain factions in their story...I'd like to voice my loud agreement with this, specifcally in regards to Timothy Zahn. I've refrained from bringing this up to avoid heat from other lorespergs, but this guy and his fucking boner for Thrawn and this Chiss has gotten ridiculous, especially in his new Thrawn books. He literally retconned 'Skywalker' to mean 'wayfinder' in the Chiss language. It's such an eye-rolling attempt to elevate the importance of the Chiss in the Star Wars galaxy, which is already doubly annoying thanks to Zahn making Thrawn an infallible super-genius in the Nu-Canon who can outsmart everyone and everything, and is fifteen lightyears ahead of the known villains like Vader and Palpatine.

He's a cowboy hat and a pudgy smirk away from being the Filoni of the Nu-Canon books, with his exhaustive "pet character" antics, and he'll probably crank it to 10 with his new Thrawn Ascendency novels.

I liked the new Thrawn books with the caveat that Zahn is playing ball to save his characters. Thrawn is able to tactically out think Vader. He's a genius tactician. To be fair to Zahn, grudgingly, Thrawn has not out thought everyone though.

He was, in sequence, unable to prevent a massacre in the first book. He then failed to fool Palpatine who figured out Thrawn. Finally, he was used by Tarkin to save the Death Star project, which Thrawn wanted to stop.

Even so, it isn't the same Thrawn. OG Thrawn was an a villain who by the Dark Force era had embraced the New Order minus its racism and was willing to do what was necessary to win. NuThrawn is being made into a hero because Zahn understands that there can be no nuance in Kennedy/Filoni Star Wars and he doesn't want Thrawn to get Greviousd.
 
Every Republic commando book after Hard Contact. Revelations is peak Travissity.

Oh, she also posted her views on her blog. She views the Jedi as ubermenchen who owned a slave army? I mean, they agreed to lead them, that's it. Traviss doesn't seem to understand the Jedis role in the Republic. But hey, their the morally reprehensible ones, not Jango who sold his tissue to them to create said army.


There is legitimate criticism to lay at the Jedi's feet. The problem is her criticism is disconnected from reality. The Jedi are servants of a corrupt Republic who refuse to accept agency and tolerate its decadent evils. They aren't a ruling class. They have no children, make no policy, and their Order is based on children strong in the Force, which occurs throughout the galaxies races and genders. The biggest conflict between the Jedi and the Sith is that very issue, who should rule. Palpatine and the Sith believe that those with the Force will rule better than those without it.



I liked the new Thrawn books with the caveat that Zahn is playing ball to save his characters. Thrawn is able to tactically out think Vader. He's a genius tactician. To be fair to Zahn, grudgingly, Thrawn has not out thought everyone though.

He was, in sequence, unable to prevent a massacre in the first book. He then failed to fool Palpatine who figured out Thrawn. Finally, he was used by Tarkin to save the Death Star project, which Thrawn wanted to stop.

Even so, it isn't the same Thrawn. OG Thrawn was an a villain who by the Dark Force era had embraced the New Order minus its racism and was willing to do what was necessary to win. NuThrawn is being made into a hero because Zahn understands that there can be no nuance in Kennedy/Filoni Star Wars and he doesn't want Thrawn to get Greviousd.
The Thrawn Novels fall into a similar category as CLone Wars season 7, The MandalorIan (At least the first season), Jedi Fallen Order, Tarkin, Batlefront Twilight Company, the Charles Soule Vader series, Tarkin, and Rogue One in that they’re good enough for me to consider them at least partially canon.
 
Too bad we're probably going see Ahsoka duel Gideon which is weird cause Gideon would probably lose easily like how Pre Vizsla lost to Obi-Wan, instead of seeing Din Djarin on how would he handle Gideon by himself kinda like Jango Fett did on Kamino/Geonosis or Vizsla did (without using his Darksaber) against Maul, it like seeing how these badass Bounty Hunter Boba and Jango handle these lightsaber welder on their own before Disney brought Star Wars. Djarin may not be Jango or Boba but it would've been interesting to see at least on-screen.

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