Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Notgoodwithusernames]

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Cant wait for them to ass rape L Neil Smith's work even more than when they replaced my boi Vuffi with the worst Star Wars character ever.

 

[White Devil]

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Ugh, why? Solo sucked. Everything in Solo that was not Woody Harrelson sucked ass, including his Lando.

 

[Miller]

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That's one Disney ride that will never end.

 

[Creep3r]

With how much he serves as a non-entity for the sake of not stealing the spotlight from nuThrawn's new fuccboi, he might as well not even exist.

No word yet, but most nufans seem to be demanding it in bulk, especially for him to end up with his protege.

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Only thing I disliked more than the film's plot and replacing Vuffi was his stupid triangle hairdo.

Strangely though, all news on the new Calrissian Andor/Not-Kyle Katarn show is completely silent. Last official news released for it claimed that it would begin filming in Europe starting in June 22, however here we are a month after the starting date for production and still nothing. Only news about it right now is some old rumor from like half a year ago that Enfy's Nest (that ginger brat from Solo who "began and funded the Rebellion") would be in it, but even back when it first came up months ago it just sounded like her actress being optimistic. In fact, the only notable thing going on right now for it is a rumor claiming that it and Kenobi are in a production overlap to try and salvage what they can from them and that filming might not even possible at the moment, with the only finished product being Mandalorian season 2 which was already finished beforehand. Yet they still expect us to believe this shit will be ready by 2021 and 2022 when they still can't even decide on what scripts to do. And 2022 was supposed to be the debut for the new shitty Disney Wars trilogy. Honestly it all just sounds like a mess and I wouldn't be surprised if they cancelled the Literally Nobody show for the sake of making a Lando show detailing his adventures with that obnoxious piece of shit L337. That'll be a hoot and a half watching a crappy remake of the Mindharp of Sharu where Lando makes a crack about how L337 likes it when he oils her rear end and she remarks that he enjoys it when she does it to him. Mark my words.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

Kind of reminds me of another under-appreciated product of The Clone Wars Multimedia Project, Alto Stratus:

The leader of the local Separatist forces on the planet Jabiim, Stratus personally killed six Jedi knights in close combat, and he did it without enhanced reflexes, precognition, special armor or weapons or lifelong warrior training, relying instead on just an ordinary steel sword and a whole lotta righteous indignation.

Those were all padawans though and the Republic forces were completely fucked by Jabiims shitty environmental conditions.(if this all 'legends' then does Quinlon Vos' kid and goth wife not exist anymore?)

Edit:

I actually talked about this once with @Cactuar King. Disney recanonized Vos' survival of Order 66 and that he is apparently still alive by the time of Plan IX, however his wife and kid are not, with his name being among the names in nuLuke's "sacred texts" which have a list of all the jedi said to have survived Order 66 but for some reason Luke never contacted any of these jedi to help run his New Order or help them unlike his old canon counterpart, and the fact that Ahsoka is also alive makes The Last Jedi as a title all the more ridiculous, as well as a need to search for Luke when there are many other jedi available, or why Assoka or any other jedi didn't bother to do anything to help the Galaxy when the Empire was defeated or when the FO came on the scene while in old canon a few old jedi survivors actually bothered to come out of hiding and help when Palpatine returned in Dark Empire or entered the Alliance disguised as civilians.

This is why i try to avoid getting invested in ongoing comic relationships these days since it's a guarantee that some fart huffing author will completely fuck it up to make themselves look good.
If you were a fan of any of icemans old relationships you're out of look since he's gay now and they never meant anything, Damian Wayne constantly has his character development and romances erased so the new writer can hook him up with someone else, Mockingbird actually cheated on Hawkeye, Viv visions development and romance in her own book never happened so Mark Waid can jerk-off how progressive he is, even a character like Vos can't escape. It's all so tiring

 

[Creep3r]

Some bullshit news:

The new EA game is set 3 years after ROTJ and still only has 4 ships per faction...

The Dr. Aids Aphra comic is back and it features tie-in bullshit to High Republic to try and give you a reason to care. Also Black Chewbacca and Black 3PO are back with her because OT simulacrums are the only way to get nostalgiafags interested.

Filoni's new Bad Batch+Ahsoka show is supposedly set in an "unexplored part of the galaxy" which sounds like the same bullshit they claimed for TFA as to why it had no familiar aliens or locations despite info pointing out that it did take place right nextdoor to Tatooine. So I expect to see nothing familiar in this shit. They're trying to spin this as "somewhere no SW media has ever gone before" despite Disney canon being less than 10 years old, mostly only visiting familiar movie locations and hardly exploring or explaining much of anything about their broken new setting other than cheap rehashes and vague references.

Billy Dee Williams is rumored to be returning as Lando for something. My guess is he'll be the author for nuLando's show...

There's some rumor going around (which I hope is bullshit) that Lucasfilm is "aware of how popular Maul is and how he and his evil organization may deserve their own series" which is nothing short of retarded and sounds like one of those bullshit rumors a company spreads about to see if there's positive reception from fans. If anything I expect them to bring back Maul as a villain in the Lando/Solo show.

Oscar Isaac's character will be getting a new novel explaining his origins with Zorri Bliss, further proving that Disney has not given up on sequel era garbage and that Doomcock was full of shit.

One of the jackasses working on the Kenobi show hinted that Vader will be appearing in Disney+'s Kenobi show... Oh boy. More forced nostalgia and cameos a la Filoni. They dropped the fucking Krayt script for this? Just having Vader chase around Kenobi? Yeah, Disney Wars is gonna get tiresome right quick.

I'm still on the fence about all these claims for new Disney+ shows. Disney would not needlessly throw so much money away, especially with smaller trilogy films planned, so this is either bullshit to fool investors and shareholders to try and make things look like they're fine, or they're desperate for more content so they're willing to take out some more loans. Either way, I don't see this ending well. I expect a big fat wreck after all is said and done.

Those were all padawans though and the Republic forces were completely fucked by Jabiims shitty environmental conditions.(if this all 'legends' then does Quinlon Vos' kid and goth wife not exist anymore?)

Trebor was also more of a master diplomat rather than a fighter who only won fights by sneaking up on droids with Force Stealth. But even as a diplomat he lost much credibility after his poor defense during the baby Ludi case which honestly made him look really dumb in the public eye, so he failed in everything. A Master Failure if anything.

does Quinlon Vos' kid and goth wife not exist anymore?

I actually talked about this once with @Cactuar King. Disney recanonized Vos' survival of Order 66 and that he is apparently still alive by the time of Plan IX, however his wife and kid are not, with his name being among the names in nuLuke's "sacred texts" which have a list of all the jedi said to have survived Order 66 but for some reason Luke never contacted any of these jedi to help run his New Order or help them unlike his old canon counterpart, and the fact that Ahsoka is also alive makes The Last Jedi as a title all the more ridiculous, as well as a need to search for Luke when there are many other jedi available, or why Assoka or any other jedi didn't bother to do anything to help the Galaxy when the Empire was defeated or when the FO came on the scene while in old canon a few old jedi survivors actually bothered to come out of hiding and help when Palpatine returned in Dark Empire or entered the Alliance disguised as civilians.

 

[cjv97]

I feel like I'm the only one who would like to see more of Grievous and Dooku in a mission-like.
Unlike Filoni that doesn't take Grievous very seriously until S7

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

So first Disney greenlights the Cassian Andor show, a spin-off about a forgettable character from a film that was barely acceptable, then they greenlight an entire animated series about four forgettable assholes from Clone Wars Season 7, and now they're greenlighting a show starring a weaksauce interpretation of Lando from a film that no one even fucking watched?

What is it with Disney and shoving out shows that no one asked for or wanted? How strapped for cash are they that they're kicking such low-effort concepts out the door into their crap streaming service?

I think that a lot of people who claim to hate the Prequels blindly believed Mike Stoklasa's bullshit. The Plinkett "reviews" are funny but it's a bunch of crap with bits of behind the scenes taken out of context. What Stoklasa did was the movie critic equivalent of Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11. He pulled the same stunt with the Indy 4 review, blaming Lucas and forgetting the guy who was actually behind the camera, the same guy who made Tintin and Reddit Player One.

I don't know why anyone takes the mongoloids at RLM seriously when it comes to their views about Star Wars. If you hear their absolutely retarded takes on their podcast, some of the retardation they spew is as bad or worse than the moronic takes about "tHe jEdI aRe pAcIfIsT!!!1!" echoed by the new wave of Disney Drones that have entered the fandom. When TFA came out, they called Rey a charismatic and fleshed out character who was unfairly lambasted for being a Mary Sue, they praised the film for ditching the Jedi Temple system of training multiple apprentices (which they claim is a "stupid Lucas idea" from the prequels) in favor of the one master and one apprentice format in isolation "just like Empire Strikes Back, which is how it ALWAYS NEEDS to be", and they actively advocate the belief that building a fictional universe of supplementary novels, comics and shows around Star Wars is "as stupid as making an Expanded Universe around Back To The Future", because the story apparently "doesn't lend itself to anything more than the Rebels vs Empire conflict".

For all their walking back on Disney's Star Wars movies and cynical jabs and their memberberry nature, they are precisely the kind of OT-purist retards that the ST was market researched and developed to appeal to. And people who hate the current state of Star Wars seem to conveniently forget that whenever they start huffing RLM's farts and declare them the ultimate authority on what makes Star Wars good.

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As a dyed-in-the-wool Fandalorian going back to...oh, the age of about seven, I was quite delighted that Traviss was weaving these obscure bits of Boba's scattered backstory into the narrative, because, (I'm assuming) like many other fans, I'd been snapping up every little bit of Boba Fett/Mandalorian content that I could get my hands on, and not all of it was what you'd call mainstream EU content. In full, they constituted a crazy-quilt patchwork of novels, short stories, one-shots and mini-series in the comics and the odd Star Wars Insider article, the latter of which were often necessary to keep track of whether an appearance by Fett in a given story was actually Fett himself or an impersonator trading on the bounty hunter's name and reputation for various reasons (these could and did include not just Jodo Kast, but also Fett's daughter Ailyn, according to an Insider retcon of the Young Jedi Knights series' "Diversity Alliance" arc, and even Grand Admiral Thrawn on at least one occasion). That Traviss actually wove so many of these tangled skeins into the Boba Fett sub-plot in LOTF actually felt like a reward for keeping up to speed on Fett's exploits over the years.

Fair enough. I wasn't aware of most of the narrative threads that Traviss was wrapping up...that's actually a pretty decent effort on her part when it comes to attempting symmetry across continuity, especially for something as labyrinthine as the Expanded Universe (though I would venture a guess that passion for the character and his culture was a motivation as well).

I'm really not primed on a lot of post-ROTJ exploits for Boba Fett, as most of what I concentrated on during my skim of the Bantam and early Dark Horse stuff to reach NJO were the big story arcs (Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, Jedi Acadmy, Corellian Trilogy, etc), in which Fett played a minimal role or none at all. At some point I'll have to get around to that.

Right. It probably didn't help that the Mandalorians were completely MIA throughout the NJO series until The Unifying Force, when James Luceno had to belatedly remind everyone that they were still alive and kicking (and to his further credit, he did give them a very kickass appearance in that book, with a Mandalorian strike-force punching through the Yuuzhan Vong like 7.62 FMJ hitting sheet-metal).

As much as I adore NJO, that was one of the few things that bugged me about the way they presented the Yuuzhan Vong's influence on the galaxy. On one hand, the writers for very astute in their decision to address things like how the Vong dealt with galactic superpowers like the Hutts and the Imperial Remnant, but when it came time to reference elements from the Bantam Publishing era in later books like Enemy Lines or Force Heretic for instance, the writers inexplicably chose shit from the Callista Trilogy or The Black Fleet Crisis of all things. It's like, fucking really? We're going to address what happened to Roganda Ismaren's freak experiment son and the Yevethans, but not Boba fucking Fett?

It's just one of those strange editorial choices for NJO that had me scratching my head. But at it least it didn't make me want to blow a gasket like Dark Journey. That will always be the ultimate low point for NJO for me...what fucking pile.

Traviss would later try to explain what the Mandos had been up to during the Vong War in the 2006 short story "A Practical Man" which proposed that Boba Fett, in his capacity as the newly-minted Mandalore following the death of Fenn Shysa, decided on a tactic of appearing to cooperate with the Yuuzhan Vong invasion of the Galaxy (while passing intelligence gained in the process to the New Republic) until such time as the ruse would inevitably become untenable and open hostilities between the Mandos and the Vong would commence. The story engendered a certain amount of controversy amongst Traviss's detractors for having Vergere describe the Mandalorians as the third party in a sort of trinity of galactic conflict with the Jedi and Sith, but considering that according to the EU timeline pre-Disney, the Mandalorians had been affecting the course of Galactic history since before the foundation of the Republic itself, it's not an unreasonable position.

Personally, I thought that the whole story was kind of unnecessary, and that it would have been better to just have someone mention that the Mandos had been fighting the Vong all along out in the far reaches of the Galaxy, away from the New Republic's main area of influence.

I read A Practical Man, actually, in my scouring of all official media relating to NJO (still gotta get my hands on that RPG source book). Personally, I liked it just to see the Vong interact with the Mando's, and see how much of their culture even manage to freak out the Mandalorians of all people.

Plus, more Nom Anor is always a good thing. One of the most fun characters from the NJO story arc, even if he kills off my favorite Vong character

Back in the day, I got fed up with the LOTF series pretty quickly and ended up going into a bit of a self-imposed exile from all things Star Wars for quite some time (largely because I was frustrated by the idea that the Galaxy was going to pieces in another major war so soon after the Vong invasion) so I never really thought about real-world parallels and inspirations for the events of the series.

Thinking about it now, I can absolutely see where you're coming from, especially concerning the Corellians, who, in hindsight, really do have some pretty noteworthy parallels with American Southerners.

Above and beyond Allston's haughty, prideful and stubbornly independent characterization, Corellians have been stereotyped for decades as charming, often reckless rogues with quick trigger-fingers and a natural aptitude for piloting, which maps rather neatly over a lot of stereotypes of Southerners in the 19th century and beyond (charm, penchant for dueling, great flair for horsemanship/cavalry tactics, etc, etc). Somewhat mirroring the historically outsized Southern presence in the American military, Corellians are probably also the most warlike of all the major human cultures (beating out the Mandalorians by virtue of the Mandos not being a strictly human culture), with many of the Galaxy's most renowned military men in the general movie era originally hailing from Corellia, including Wedge Antilles, Soontir Fel, Garm Bel Iblis and Gilaad Pellaeon (Han and Lando could count as well, although they generally prefer to outrun or outsmart their foes rather than fighting, despite both of them being highly-capable soldiers in their own right).[/QUOTE]

I've never been able to read [Star By Star] dry-eyed. It hits you, hard, but in a way that I think enhances the verisimilitude of the story rather than coming off like cheap shock tactics.

Dude....the scenes that get me the most are the one where Han and Leia emotionally collapse in the confines of their Coruscant apartment from the news of Anakin's death, and the bit where a traumatized and heartbroken Tahiri is talking to Anakin's corpse.

And that's why I'll never agree with the idiotic assessment that all NJO has is shock value. It's how the shocking events affect the characters that enriches the story, that gives it weight and distress to the reader. When characters like Han or Luke die in the ST movies, I can't bring myself to give a fuck because the story doesn't fucking do anything with their deaths. Outside of a brief moment of melancholy, they're completely dropped. Rey is barely phased by Han's death by the next film and is already trying to cock-gobble his killer, Luke doesn't react at all to his best friend's death, there's no long-term impact of despair or loss of hope that these characters perish...it's just cheap narrative cement to build Crylo Ren's horrifically stunted and laughably-written redemption arc.

I don't care about Han or Luke dying because the story doesn't fucking care. I cared when Chewbacca, Anakin Solo and Nen Yim died in NJO because the story showed the rattling repercussions of their deaths. Because the authors of those books care more about long-term narrative impacts than the short term payoffs people like J.J. Abrams are exhaustively racing to achieve.

Tatooine Ghost is, oddly, one of the very few EU books that I've never actually read, possibly because the premise of "Han and Leia hunt down a famous Alderaanian painting" didn't really grab my interest at the time. I've heard good things about it, though. Have to get a hold of a copy sometime soon...

One of my favorite scenes is Han giving a very in-character response to the question of what he would have done in Anakin's shoes during the Tusken Massacre.

I also like that none of Anakin's childhood friends, even as cynical adults, completely dismiss Leia when she tells them that he and Darth Vader were the same person. They refuse to believe it, because the boy they knew wasn't capable of those things.

I would definitely agree that Traviss is very good at getting inside the heads of the characters that she's writing, Mandalorian or not, and presenting their respective and differing points of view in a way that feels very organic to the characters in question. For example, ever since I started reading the Republic Commando series again, I've been quite fascinated by her depiction of the Clones' psychology. I'm gonna power-level a little bit here, but I have a lot of brothers. A lot of brothers whom I grew up in very close quarters with. A lot of brothers whom everyone we met was always commenting on how alike we all looked. As such, a lot of little details that Traviss throws in, like Clones not appearing identical to other Clones because they've spent their entire lives focusing on the minute individual differences that set them all apart from their brothers, hit me in a really profound and visceral way.

And people still credit Filoni Wars for being the media that first worked to give the Clones a sense of individuality and character.

Again, people really need to fucking develop their reading skills.

Of course, I'm not saying that Traviss is Teh Gratest Autor Evar. As you've sort of pointed out, she does have a tendency to occasionally descend into fan-girling, which is most clearly demonstrated, I think, in her Gears of War books, where it seems pretty obvious that she really likes the character of resident Cool Old Guy Col. Victor Hoffman, to the point of developing a romantic interest for him in the form of resident Cool Old Lady Bernadette "Bernie" Mataki, whom I'm tempted to think of as a fantasy author-insert for Traviss (I don't have much evidence for that beyond both of them being somewhat temperamental middle-aged women with a military background, though). It's somewhat leavened by the fact that Bernie is a fairly engaging character, and written with a generally-believable set of limitations within the Gears universe (there's one memorable incident where she decides to assert herself by knocking down the series' resident smartass Damon Baird, but she accomplishes this by hitting him on the pressure-point behind the ear, while acknowledging that the whole thing is a bit of a gamble, because if Baird, who despite being one of the smaller Gears is still built like a linebacker fed a steady diet of horse steroids, decides to press the issue, then he could easily snap her in half; much to her relief, he just laughs at her audacity when he gets back on his feet).

I still have to finish LOTF in its entirety before I can properly assess whether or not Traviss fangirling over the Mandalorians is detrimental to the story or not, because so far it hasn't been. It also helps that for whatever fangirl tendencies or biases that she happens to have, she still writes exceptionally well, and doesn't shortchange the characters I care about when it comes to effort and narrative focus.

She writes Jacen Solo as well or better than people like Aaron Alliston or Matthew Stover, and that has to be recognized, I feel.

This was, as I recall, a source of much contention with the Republic Commando series back in the day, with many people feeling that everyone in the books was unrealistically idealizing the Mandalorians, but...it makes sense in context.

Context seems to be something a lot of the scathing branches of the EU Community tend to ignore whenever they go after something. I could buy the Star Wars brand from Disney if I got a dime for every mischaracterization of the Vong I've seen from people who claim to have read the books:

"LOL, the Vong are just plant-loving space orcs with a BDSM fetish! And they're part of an alien invasion plot, how GENERIC and DERITIVITIVE of other sci-fi! They don't have any memorable characters in their ranks, and they're all the same! Also, they're immune to the Force for no reason, it's so retarded!"

Just ignore that pesky context and cling to a reductionist view of what happened in the books. I know I'm sometimes a bit reductionist when I talk about Dark Nest and the Killik, but that's out of frustration for the lack of history and information about them, not because of details I'm ignoring.

I have somewhat complicated feelings on that point. While I abhor virtually everything that Disney has brought into the fandom, I started working my way through the EU somewhat chronologically, starting with Brian Daley's Han Solo Trilogy and moving on to Splinter of the Mind's Eye and other older books. As such, even though I was very young at the time, I did have a sense of how the fandom started to change after 1999, going from what I saw as a more balanced mix of Force-user vs non-Force-user characters and expressed preferences for the same on the part of fans to something resembling the All-Jedi, All-the-Time Show after the Prequels hit. Of course, Jedi are a foundational aspect of the Star Wars, but I remember a lot of people at that time becoming (in some cases) obnoxiously attached to the Jedi as shown in the Prequels, even to the point of arguing that Luke was running his new Jedi Order the "wrong" way in the EU because he wasn't doing things like they saw in the movies. This always frustrated me, because even then, I had the awareness that Lucas was deliberately setting up the PT Jedi Order to fail and thus vindicate/emphasize the rightness of Luke's choosing to embrace his emotional attachment to his father to try and redeem him.

I can't speak for anyone outside of myself, and I certainly wasn't browsing forums or really in the trenches with the fandom to witness the All-Jedi, All-The-Time preference you refer to. But I can say that while I enjoy Jedi/Sith stories more than any other in Star Wars fiction (largely due to my fixation with high fantasy parallels within both groups), but I will be the first to admit that the franchise would be incredibly dull if they were the sole focus.

I also find the mentality of the people you describe to be incredibly bizarre. The PT Jedi were not the norm for what the Order should look like...anyone with passing knowledge of Tales Of The Jedi and KOTOR knows the kind of generational revisions they went through (and the former PREDATES the PT even in terms of production). Even if the PT's intent to show a misguided and well-meaning but inflexible Jedi Order wasn't a thing, you'd still have to contend with the other versions of the Jedi Order existing throughout galactic history. Why the fuck would it magically be unacceptable for Luke to deviate from the PT Jedi as shown on screen when all the other depictions of the Jedi all over the EU were just as different in their depiction? Fucking weirdos in every circle of this fandom, I swear.

Funnily enough, the PT-era books actually work really well for me by avoiding all acknowledgements of the Jedi Order's flaws, and focusing solely on their good qualities....because that saves the bulk of the criticism for their inflexible attitude and archaic traditions for the later era of books with Luke and his New Jedi Order. After all, who better to address the problems of the PT Jedi than the next inheritor of the Jedi Order?

I liked the new Thrawn books with the caveat that Zahn is playing ball to save his characters.

Even so, it isn't the same Thrawn. OG Thrawn was an a villain who by the Dark Force era had embraced the New Order minus its racism and was willing to do what was necessary to win. NuThrawn is being made into a hero because Zahn understands that there can be no nuance in Kennedy/Filoni Star Wars and he doesn't want Thrawn to get Greviousd.

Sorry, but no. That doesn't work as an excuse for the kind of stupid shit that Zahn has been pulling in his new novels. I don't care how badly Filoni is screwing up the character in his cartoons...that's not an excuse for doing autistic pet character crap like having his species be the origin for the Skywalker surname. That's as bad, if not worse, than Han getting an eye-rolling and completely arbitrary explanation for his surname in his garbage origin film.

Zahn's also proven that he's quite protective of his own characters and concepts, but has no problem openly lambasting other people's in his own work, with the subtelty of a brick to the face. Like in Vision Of The Future, where Zahn decided to incorporate his vocal disdain for Dark Empire by having Mara Jade quip that she didn't believe that Palpatine had actually resurrected through cloning. Y'know, just fuck continuity and the stakes established in that prior story arc, and the professional obligation to adhere to previously established continuity even if you don't like it...just validate your opinion loudly and clumsily by having the characters scream it to the world in-universe.

Fucking petty shit-goblin. Even Karen Traviss isn't that exceptional.

 

[cjv97]

Some bullshit news:
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Filoni's new Bad Batch+Ahsoka show is supposedly set in an "unexplored part of the galaxy" which sounds like the same bullshit they claimed for TFA as to why it had no familiar aliens or locations despite info pointing out that it did take place right nextdoor to Tatooine. So I expect to see nothing familiar in this shit. They're trying to spin this as "somewhere no SW media has ever gone before" despite Disney canon being less than 10 years old, mostly only visiting familiar movie locations and hardly exploring or explaining much of anything about their broken new setting other than cheap rehashes and vague references.

Yet fans wanna still praise/worship Filoni thinking that he could actual bring everything back to Canon like KOTOR/Old Republic (the most requested by fans).

If only they could realize but I guess they're just blind to see.

 

[Ghostse]

I haven't kept my finger anywhere near any pulses but my usual caveats remain:
Don't believe shit is actually happening until checks have been cut.

Its entirely possible whoever did the rogue "Oh Disney is dropping song of the south from splash mountain" is trying to do the same (or someone inspired by them is trying) to leak information to get try to stir public opinion.

 

[Miller]

The Dr. Aids Aphra comic is back and it features tie-in bullshit to High Republic to try and give you a reason to care. Also Black Chewbacca and Black 3PO are back with her because OT simulacrums are the only way to get nostalgiafags interested.

Wait, are they seriously out of ideas that they're now ripping-off Marvel stuff with the Infinity stones?

Filoni's new Bad Batch+Ahsoka show is supposedly set in an "unexplored part of the galaxy" which sounds like the same bullshit they claimed for TFA as to why it had no familiar aliens or locations despite info pointing out that it did take place right nextdoor to Tatooine.

Do they realize that if they set all their shows/books in the "Unknown Regions" then it won't be unknown for long?

 

[Creep3r]

I haven't kept my finger anywhere near any pulses but my usual caveats remain:
Don't believe shit is actually happening until checks have been cut.

Its entirely possible whoever did the rogue "Oh Disney is dropping song of the south from splash mountain" is trying to do the same (or someone inspired by them is trying) to leak information to get try to stir public opinion.

I think there's a name for that but I forget what its called. Essentially a company releases bullshit rumors to try and see how audiences will react as a method of checking whether or not the idea is worth considering for approval or not. A typical manipulative maneuver on their part.

And speaking of bullshit, Doomcock is spreading some crud claiming that KK will be out by 2021 and George Lucas will be returning to take her place. First he claimed it would be Favreau and now this. What bugs me most is seeing so many people actually believe this while still claiming Doomcok holds any sort of validity as a source of info.

 

[Adamska]

Those were all padawans though and the Republic forces were completely fucked by Jabiims shitty environmental conditions.(if this all 'legends' then does Quinlon Vos' kid and goth wife not exist anymore?)

Reminder that you're arguing with a person who tried to claim how one of the main creators behind Halo's lore (and who actually worked with the team as they made the game given his book came out before Combat Evolved did) is wrong compared to the author he's been crushing on since he was seven years old.

Just to let those not familiar with him and new to the thread know what type of fellow he is.

He's also fond of assuming absolutes and false dichotomies just as a warning to people not familiar with it. Mainly because it's easier to hide his fanaticism and own mental faults by playing the reasonable person by using them as the bar.

Ugh, why? Solo sucked. Everything in Solo that was not Woody Harrelson sucked ass, including his Lando.

This is another standard Kennedy and Iger ploy. This is more vaporware they're not intending to make given how Disney has no funds whatsoever to plan anything out beyond what they already have in the can. This is their desperate go-to to pretend that the IP isn't a corpse that has nothing being made for it.

Smoke and mirrors, breads and circuses to trick the braindead investors into thinking the company isn't about to start massively downsizing. They'll also be using their Twitter botnet and paid shills to hype something with no interest to further the grift they have.

Once you know their trick, it's blatantly obvious how desperate and shitty they are.

 

[jspit]

I didn't think the Clone troopers being practically expiration date slaves was a matter of contention, honestly. They were pretty much bred for the single purpose of being disposable shock troops. They're basically living droids.

Ah. you see this. This is what Star Wars used to be. Fandom. Arguing over complex issues. Passion.

For purposes of slavery, a slave is both the property of someone and is forced unwillingly to serve them. The Clones aren't usually portrayed as unwilling, which is my issue with that. The second issue I take with Traviss description is that they aren't the property of the Jedi, if they are at all. The movies don't deal with the nuance and so in order to leap to 'slave army' you have to make certain gap filling assumptions.

You raise another issue, ie droids. Are C-3PO and R2D2 slaves?

This might sound stupid but do you think Grievous is one of the weakest characters to ever pick a lightsaber?

It like this post right here
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Cause fans love using Filoni version of Grievous for example like having the lowest kills but at least he has killed six Jedi including killing three Jedi Master on that list even able to defeat a on-screen Jedi Master like Adi Gallia, Depa Billaba twice and off-screen knocking Shaak Ti unconscious with the electric cable. Even a Jedi Knight name Pablo-Jill in a intense duel over Duro in a satellite city that left him injured. But of course they'll say these aren't proof.

In the Filoniverse, yeah. He was beaten by a single Gungan.

On the other hand weakness and strength are bullshit. He's a general. He's not 'stronger' than a Jedi Master, so what? He's allot smarter. He isolates them then takes them if he can. If not he retreats.

It's not a strawman. I had frequent on-line interactions with such people myself, back then. People who for whatever reason were willfully blind to the fact that the Prequel Jedi were meant by Lucas to be in a very bad place, institutionally, rather than exemplars of the Jedi way. Very confused people.

It is. I'm not arguing that the Jedi are flawless, I dispute her ridiculous either or analogy. it's bad faith.

Right, every single one of them volunteered to die for the Republic the moment that he came of age.

For someone so apparently eager to shame the use of supposed strawmen you certainly are eager to make use of them yourself.

Traviss doesn't claim there that the Jedi own anyone. What she says, specifically, is that the Jedi accepted the use of a slave-army for the prosecution of a war, that this was wrong, and that many fans become testy and defensive about it, refusing to countenance that Jedi could make mistakes or do wrong, apparently under the belief that since the Jedi are the main point-of-view faction, and because of their ostensibly serving the Will of the Force, that means that everything that they do is good/justified (never mind the fact that C-Can and G-Canon both are replete with numerous examples of questionable behavior by Jedi).

You may not be claiming that bioethics don't exist, but you're certainly making a mockery of them by trying to argue like this. You do realize that one of the go-to defenses of black slavery in the United States prior to the 1861-63 war was that the slaves were happy and content in their bondage, don't you?

So you acknowledge that the Jedi never actually enslaved them? Also, we are talking about the Star Wars universe. Don't be lazy and bring up something else. Point to evidence that they weren't willing in the movies. Also, don't use the authors work to justify it. We're discussing how her views fit into the universe.

So what are you arguing they should do?

At this point I'm left creating your argument for your mistress. Is it that they didn't force their view that the clone army is bad? Isn't that one of her rambling complaints is that the Jedi are elites, dictating to the masses? So, assuming that this is what you are arguing, are you arguing that they should impose right and wrong on the Republic! Or is it that they didn't withdraw entirely and cede the galaxy to the Sith. I'm trying to establish just what you and Travissty are arguing was the right moral course within her criticism of the Jedi.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

You raise another issue, ie droids. Are C-3PO and R2D2 slaves?

According to IG-88 (or the dumb SJW droid in Solo), yes they are.

 

[jspit]

Sorry, but no. That doesn't work as an excuse for the kind of stupid shit that Zahn has been pulling in his new novels. I don't care how badly Filoni is screwing up the character in his cartoons...that's not an excuse for doing autistic pet character crap like having his species be the origin for the Skywalker surname. That's as bad, if not worse, than Han getting an eye-rolling and completely arbitrary explanation for his surname in his garbage origin film.

So, to review. You like Karen Traviss' commando books, all four of them, and her post Endor books, no pet character crap there, but Zahn's too far for you?

I missed that. What I read is that Skywalker was a parallel in Thrawn's language he found amusing.

Zahn's also proven that he's quite protective of his own characters and concepts, but has no problem openly lambasting other people's in his own work, with the subtelty of a brick to the face. Like in Vision Of The Future, where Zahn decided to incorporate his vocal disdain for Dark Empire by having Mara Jade quip that she didn't believe that Palpatine had actually resurrected through cloning. Y'know, just fuck continuity and the stakes established in that prior story arc, and the professional obligation to adhere to previously established continuity even if you don't like it...just validate your opinion loudly and clumsily by having the characters scream it to the world in-universe.

That's true he agreed with allot of fans that resurrecting Palpatine was a bad idea *Riseofskywalker*. But if anything, he was squaring a circle. Mara existed in Dark Empire, why didn't she return to Palpatine's service. She didn't believe it was really him. It may have been petty? I never saw that way, but I've rarely met anyone who criticizes Zahn's Thrawn trilogy or the Hand saga.

Fucking petty shit-goblin. Even Karen Traviss isn't that exceptional.

She rage quit over canon she didn't like, yeah, she is.

 

[XYZpdq]

According to IG-88 (or the dumb SJW droid in Solo), yes they are.

iirc this also comes up in NJO that time 3p0 accidentally leads a droid uprising or something

 

[White Devil]

Ah. you see this. This is what Star Wars used to be. Fandom. Arguing over complex issues. Passion.

For purposes of slavery, a slave is both the property of someone and is forced unwillingly to serve them. The Clones aren't usually portrayed as unwilling, which is my issue with that. The second issue I take with Traviss description is that they aren't the property of the Jedi, if they are at all. The movies don't deal with the nuance and so in order to leap to 'slave army' you have to make certain gap filling assumptions.

They're the property of the Republic, via Taun We's own dialogue in AOTC. They are property. As for being unwilling? That's obviously been genetically bred out of them. They have no choice, they're biologically programmed to be what they are. You do see a few clones in the EU escape to be something more than just disposable shock troops. iirc in LotF, Boba Fett is trying to find one to get a cure for his disease. It's been a few years since I've read those books. Slave army should be readily apparent to anyone though, there is no nuance about it as the movie makes perfectly clear. I know it's an absolutist view on the subject but IMO there isn't really much room for debate on what the clones are. The real debate lies in the morality and ethics of the Jedi using a ready made clone army to fight their war.

EDIT

Just as an aside, I enjoy Traviss' books and the Mandalorians in general. I always thought they were basically the Star Wars version of Vikings in space and that is fucking rad. The Republic Commando books imo were excellent and probably some of the only Prequel EU stuff I really enjoyed. That being said I will not deny at all Traviss is a Mando fangirl and it's obvious in all her writing but I've never really disliked her SW output. I think the only SW author I outright dislike is Kevin J. Anderson.

 

[The Nothingness]

They're the property of the Republic, via Taun We's own dialogue in AOTC. They are property. As for being unwilling? That's obviously been genetically bred out of them. They have no choice, they're biologically programmed to be what they are. You do see a few clones in the EU escape to be something more than just disposable shock troops.

Also there was an episode of Filoni's Clone Wars where a clone deserted the army and raised a family with his Twi'lek wife.

 

[HeyYou]

I didn't think the Clone troopers being practically expiration date slaves was a matter of contention, honestly. They were pretty much bred for the single purpose of being disposable shock troops. They're basically living droids.

I would agree, but the Jedi certainly weren't their slave masters. At the end of the day, the clones were ordered to serve the Republic and fight its wars and the Jedi hesitantly agreed to serve in that war. It's natural that they were then given command of the Republic's troops: the clones. If anything, the Jedi (at least most of the time) tried to treat the clones humanely. It was almost always Jedi that gave clones the idea that they were humans with their own perspectives and feelings, and as mentioned in several places the Jedi pretty much never ordered the clones to do something they weren't willing to do themselves.