did you ever see the responses to the test by the rest of the server? what do you think they were like? do you think anyone thought that it was kinda fucked up or take my side at all?
[...]
on the subject of the bdsm commissions, what unsettled me isn't that the customers are paying glip to make them art, it's that the art is being presented and effectively marketed towards the server as a former of therapeutic emotional expression while reinforcing glip's rule as an authority in the scenario, both by financially giving them money in order to facilitate the creation of the image itself but also because it's specifically glip dominating the customer under the guise of emotional growth, this is what an user had to say when asked about their commission.
does this look healthy to anyone?
I didn't see the replies in the server, but I can imagine they are generally following the "consensus" reached by the end of the scene.
Admittedly, I never understand the weird code-y stuff they do when Malwire is involved, so thank you for explaining that one.
I agree with you that PK is engaging unhealthily, and that discord cap is... extremely disconcerting. Everything about this is abhorrent with better context. Sorry for not writing more, there is a lot to respond to and others have brought up the commission stuff so I hope I address that when addressing others. You deserve a better apology and closure and healing, and I'm sorry it's been like pulling teeth for you and others.
A good friend will tell you when you fuck up. That's a hard thing to do, and the people in your life who care about you enough to do that are treasures. The people she surrounds herself with won't do that. They praise her, tell her she's magnificent, and back her up on everything she does. That Hare scene was a prime example of that. They allow her to abuse and excuse her way out of things.
[...]Her unwillingness to take out the trash validates their bad behavior, and it makes her apologies look weak and meaningless. This isn't a single one-off. It keeps happening, over and over and over again. We can't take anything she says seriously because her words and her behavior don't match.
I know I’ve brought it up to you before Pengo but I can’t help but reiterate how chilling it is that Glip keeps acting like an authority on trauma and healing, when they have no qualifications and haven’t even healed themselves. There’s a reason that even therapists can’t diagnose themselves. But the fact Glip has a vulnerable audience already and elevates themself to a position of knowing how to handle such personal and intimate information. The BDSM commissions are a symptom of this and as an onlooker it’s kind of horrifying
I agree and this is well worded. They don't really have an inhibition toward things like these. Even if it seems okay, there are points where people should genuinely just not do certain things or encourage it.
Honestly, Eevee needs to get a fucking job so his wife can take a long break from the internet and figure her life out. It feels good to constantly be told how great and wonderful she is. It strokes her ego and absolves her of responsibility. Of course she won't want to leave. As it stands right now, she won't be able to have a meaningful artistic career without taking some drastic action to shop doing all the shitty stuff she keeps doing. She's hurt too many feelings and been so radioactive over such a long period that no legitimate company/publisher/professional organization wants anything to do with her. She's cannibalizing her future so she can have her feel-good present.
Truthfully, I don't really feel they even want or feel an artistic career outside of their work is possible. Additionally, you don't have to believe me, but I don't think they want to absolve responsibility, though I definitely agree that their public behavior is at odds with that and needs to change.
Are we sure these two are *just* traumatized? It sounds like Eevee enjoyed a fair deal of the screwed up shit that happened to them, PK was obviously more emotionally affected by lots of it but a good deal of their idiocy just seems like an excuse to justify them insensitively parading around their ignorance about normal people and advertising to others that they should enjoy it too. I don't buy this 'internalized trauma' schtick, encouraging a child to fuck their sister when underaged just shows a patented lack of knowledge about how this might ever be harmful and makes it blatant that they (Eevee at the least) don't feel harmed at all.
People who have been normalized to abuse can perpetuate said abuse. People who experience abuse can also seek it out and/or treat it as though it's completely fine.
I'm not saying that Eevee or PK are absolved, but rather that I think their actions do correspond with the abuse they've allegedly endured, and that if this is the case they should have the chance to grow out of it if they want to. It does not change what they had done in their past, what they've drawn and said, but my main point is just that I see actions that can be taken as "Eevee wants to fuck kids because she keeps saying stupid shit about child sexuality" more as Eevee/PK having trauma and having no real functional way in dealing with it.
I'm not arguing they deserve to be forgiven by that basis alone.
I also agree with you regarding the age of consent, I personally think 18 is way too low, but I recognize there are varying circumstances that result in different people feeling differently about what they went through.
You are an extremely talented artist with a brilliant mind, and it makes me quite sad, actually, to see you say that you place your work in such low regard. Everything about your words here suggest to me that your self-esteem is middling and you seem to think you can't bring any good into the world at all, other than this. That is so very dangerous, because you have basically said--and, I expect, you also believe--that your capacity to do some good is connected intrinsically PK's history of doing and enabling evil, as if this is the only good you can do.
This is not true. You have every right in the world to go and do good in a million other ways, and I have no doubt that you could do it well, too.
I cannot powerlevel on here, but I'll just say that unfortunately due to a variety of circumstances I genuinely cannot really do much in the world. I don't think my capacity to do good is intrinsically connected to PK. I help my friends often, I would fund a friend of mine for months to make sure he wasn't evicted, and other stuff, but it's more in this situation that I feel that if there is a chance I can help, then I want to.
I suppose the difference in practice is insignificant though.
To be clear, I'm not saying that your efforts aren't noble or worthwhile. What I am saying is that, while you may be seeing progress in private, none of it is reflecting outward at all; that is to say, no true progress is really being made. In fact, what I am seeing here is a continuation of the game that PK plays without trying, the circle of supply and attention, of reveling in being understood without ever understanding anyone else.
You might believe they will eventually, but I'm not so sure. For now, though, anyone with eyes to see can tell that you are throwing your time and energy into a void in order to try to fill one in yourself.
What I despise more than being hurt is a problem with no solution, and no attempt at being solved. I understand your concern, but again, I guess I just am neurotic about needing to try at least for a little while.
And yes, Glip is an abuser. Is this familiar?
The central attitudes driving the Victim are:
Everybody has done me wrong, especially the people I’ve been involved with.
When you accuse me of being abusive, you are joining the parade of people who have been cruel and unfair to me. It proves you’re just like the rest.
It’s justifiable for me to do to you whatever I feel you are doing to me, and even to make it quite a bit worse to make sure you get the message.
I’ve had it so hard that I’m not responsible for my actions.
This is a fantastic resource, thank you. I don't want to over-focus on this as it seems people are upset that things are degrading into armchair psychology, but I will take what you have told me seriously. I will also dedicate some time to reading what you have suggested.
Maybe Glip hasn't done this to you but they have done this to many. They haven't done this to you because you know these tactics - but even trained psychologists can be manipulated by abusers. There are instances of abusers who talk their therapists into siding with them and even diagnosing their abused partners with personality disorders despite never having met them.
This is part of why PK has difficulty with therapists; in attempting to go to one, they sided with Marl.
I know you are concerned about Marl. What you need to understand is that Glip and Eevee have every resource to deal with Marl on their own. If they wanted to, they would. They do not need you for this.
I know it's incredibly difficult to walk away from this type of situation and I know that you probably won't until it's too late. They will get inside your head and I know you see yourself as strong and impervious to their tricks but that's the tactic these kinds of people use.
Read the book, at least. This is a toxic situation and they are toxic people.
I am not ignorant in psychology... it's one of my favorite subjects and I read a lot about it. I am not going to claim I am a suitable replacement for a therapist, nor that I am immune to abuse or being used. Rather, I do not know what it is that could occur to me that is as harmful as people seem to think. I don't really rely heavily on PK. (Edited due to accidentally chopping off the end of the sentence here)
Read through the steps and answer honestly - have they done any of these? At any point?
Though it might not be the answer you are expecting, I do think they have done a few of these, or at least attempted to.
2. Acknowledge that the abuse was wrong, unconditionally.
I do think they have attempted this, but continue to over-explain.
3. Acknowledge that their behavior was a choice, not a loss of control. For example, they need to recognize that there is a moment during each incident at which they give himself permission to become abusive and that they choose how far to let themself go.
They literally point out during situations where they enabled Marl that they had choices even if they felt they did not at the time. They also reaffirm this in the reply to Lain's response.
4. Recognize the effects their abuse has had, and show empathy for those. They need to talk in detail about the short-and long-term impact that the abuse has had, including fear, loss of trust, anger, and loss of freedom and other rights. And they need to do this without reverting to feeling sorry for himself or talking about how hard the experience has been for him.
I acknowledge this one is a mixed bag, but I also feel that PK doing this would be lambasted as over-explaining again? However, I do think the specificity of this point is very good and am definitely keeping it in mind the next time I speak to PK about anything relevant to this.
6. Develop respectful behaviors and attitudes to replace the abusive ones.
I think they are attempting this. I don't think respectful behavior happens in a few months or even years depending on the abuse. I don't want to discredit that they are certainly still very harmful to people and as such need to do better though.
8. Make amends for the damage they have done. They can start to make up by being consistently kind and supportive, talking with people whom he has misled in regard to the abuse and admitting to them that he lied, and many other steps related to cleaning up the emotional and literal messes that their behavior has caused.
Again, an attempt is being made, and they have tried to talk to others they have hurt at times, but it is also not something that is always available.
Five out of 12 is not a great number, so again, I'm not trying to argue that they're perfectly fine and improving at a rocket pace, because for all intents and purposes they absolutely are not. I am just trying to reply to your question with my honest view on the situation. I don't think they deserve a cookie for TRYING to do things, but I also don't think they are actively shying away from taking these steps either, which is my main focus. If they decide they no longer want to even try and that they are justified and etc etc, then I'm out.
Just because these people “consented” to the commissions- and i say that with quotes because there is an extreme power pay going on here and a severe misuse of one’s trauma and trust to the point any spoken consent is void of meaning- does not mean it absolves responsibility on Glip here. They should not have done those commissions and used peoples TRAUMA to romanticize and sexualize their commissioner’s experiences.
I know and I agree with you. I was explaining that I see the subject as two different arguments, one focusing on the commissioners and one focusing on PK's hand in even making these commissions an option and possibility. I 100% agree the blame here falls upon PK, not the commissioners, I'm sorry if I came off poorly, I do not want to justify them.
One victim’s choice to accept an apology is theirs and theirs alone. That doesnt mean others should accept it, that the party in question should feel absolved of guilt or responsibility since one person was fine with it, and especially forgetting to take into account everyone’s views on the situation when theres victims who came here since Glip writes off the entirety of the Farms as abusers and a hivemind. I can’t speak for the others here and i dont know @sad cowboy cat nor their relationship to the community besides the fact we both were harmed by Glip’s abuse art, but i was a former fan that came here in 2018 because it was literally impossible to talk to Glip and co. about the situation without vitriol and harassment.
I agree. I mentioned them mainly to show I had attempted to make sure that it wasn't just me or PK writing that. I accept and encourage victims to not accept the apology if it is not to their liking or addressing what they feel needs to be addressed. I also agree that demonizing KF in its entireity serves no purpose other than to discredit those who genuinely feel pain and harm and to try to reinforce their own emotional frailty.
Thank you as well for bullet points listed. I'm saving them along with previous points listed into a document I can look over.
Guys this is not a 'LETS FIX A DOGFUCKER' or 'HOW NOT TO ABUZE' thread. Take that shit to tumblr, this is genuinely embarrassing to read and a complete waste of fucking time.
Seriously this thread is cancer because of people wanting to fix PK or hunt Marl down for JUSTICE!!!1, that's not what KiwiFarms is for. It's to discuss a lolcow and make observations about them.
Considering you wanted to jail Marl hardcore for Apollo's sake when you first messaged me, and tried to spread what I told you in confidence while I was currently being sued and/or in danger thanks to Marl (and also trying to go to the cops), this is a weird remark to see you share. Chill.
Back when your first callout came out, it seemed that Glip engaged in legal action to make you remove your claims about Marl's dogfucking. But I recall (I'd have to comb this thread for the quotes) Glip claims this never happened and they did not actually take any legal action. What is the real story? Legal action? Just threats? What was going on there.
Well, PK isn't related to why I feel I am unable to do much IRL haha, but passing that...
PK did throw a lawsuit my way. They attempted to sue me for $30k in damages. I spoke to a lawyer and we determined that PKs lawsuit was incredibly poorly done (they got my name wrong, claimed I was a resident of Nevada when I've never been, so on) and basically entirely able to be thrown out. They could however potentially re-do the lawsuit with the correct information, so it was better for me to just say and do nothing... which I did for years.
Truthfully, there was a part of me that wanted to take it all to court because I knew Marl would be shitting bricks. I did not have the money to do so, nor the time nor mental health however.
I think they didn't claim it never happened, but rather their friends/fans kept saying it never happened. (If they claimed it never happened though I'd love to see that)
I recall someone getting into a bicker exchange on twitter wherein they were like Where is the PROOF that PK sued Pengo hm????
So I stepped in like hi, yes PK sued me this is a real thing that happened.
PK claims that in 2016 they dropped the case due to me apologizing and us discussing things in email.
@Hatun
I do have question to ask you: Marl had mentioned in your Tumblr inbox that the person who sent you the ask about him being into bestiality was either Invader Pichu or Minun (assuming either are victims of his.) Do you know anything about these people and their connection to Marl? And who is the person that sent you this?
I believe my friend compiled info on them ages ago
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/melan...-woods-floraverse.5567/page-1330#post-4389815
I don't know them personally. I do not know who sent me those asks as it was on a throwaway, but I'm assuming it was not Pichu or Minun since they claim not to be in their group at all.
Does this mean that the porn PK made of Doc Tox is now retroactively porn of Pengo?
No worries, Doc Tox was meant to be a PK stand-in actually. The three on the cover where Tox was introduced were PK, Axi and Zen if I recall. Tox and The Announcer look very similar but are spearate characters as far as I know.
