Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Uranus Pink]

Had you been watching Space Battleship Yamato or Macross before going to bed?

 

[Oaat]

Had you been watching Space Battleship Yamato or Macross before going to bed?

No but I've seen Yamato.

 

[Cactuar King]

Fett killed some Jedi here and there

I’m curious about that, since I don’t recall Boba ever killing any Jedi.

Otherwise, totally agree with your post.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

No but I've seen Yamato.

You're missing out. SDF Macross is phenomenal...one of the best space operas of the anime medium, especially the movie.

And I don't even like anime.

 

[White Devil]

Macross/Robotech is what got me into giant robots.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Macross/Robotech is what got me into giant robots.

Man, watching Macross as my first mecha anime really spoiled me, because I have scoured mountains of old-school mecha anime from Gundam to Patlabor to VOTOMS, and none of them have measured up. It got fucking everything right, and I haven't found a robot series as equally good since.

I guess there's no striking gold twice.

 

[White Devil]

I liked Gundam 08th MS Team, but that was it. 08th was literally Gundam in Vietnam. Patlabor is okayish, I can stand it. Most of the other stuff I've seen? Mehhh

 

[FrickinFrackinFruckin]

Man, watching Macross as my first mecha anime really spoiled me, because I have scoured mountains of old-school mecha anime from Gundam to Patlabor to VOTOMS, and none of them have measured up. It got fucking everything right, and I haven't found a robot series as equally good since.

I guess there's no striking gold twice.

Have you seen Megas XLR?

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Have you seen Megas XLR?

Oh, yeah, I grew up on Megas XLR...but it's a lot lighter in tone than the stuff that reignited my mecha boner, like Macross. I've also dabbled in some Super Robot shows like RahXephon, which were pretty decent.

 

[cjv97]

Have you seen Megas XLR?

I actually remember watching this, good show and still my favorite.

 

[jspit]

As I said, I was new. Sorry.

Happens to the best.

I liked Gundam 08th MS Team, but that was it. 08th was literally Gundam in Vietnam. Patlabor is okayish, I can stand it. Most of the other stuff I've seen? Mehhh

Man, watching Macross as my first mecha anime really spoiled me, because I have scoured mountains of old-school mecha anime from Gundam to Patlabor to VOTOMS, and none of them have measured up. It got fucking everything right, and I haven't found a robot series as equally good since.

I guess there's no striking gold twice.

I think that's true with everything. Nothing quite measures up to your first time.

 

[The Fresh Maker]

This fucking guy.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

This fucking guy.

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Someone keep this guy away from film school, because "objective quality" is the first thing teachers go over on the first day...when they're done jerking off to Citizen Kane and 2001, of course.

Also, imagine being so butthurt over Star Wars that you express resentment to Jeremy Jahns of all people...one of the most vanilla YouTubers in existence. Fuck, I don't even particularly care for his channel, and his videos on TROS aren't even half as harsh as the others out there.

 

[HandsomeDan]

When it comes to Dave Filoni and Karen Traviss, two Star Wars "authors" that have fallen under fire in this particular thread, from my point of view, the hatred is well-earned.

I mean, they weren't the first authors in the Star Wars brand to make Sue-ish characters. Drew Karpyshyn's description for Revan in KOTOR's backstory (and the subsequent lore expansions on Revan in KOTOR 2) portrays him the kind of badass that makes Primarch Horus from Warhammer 40K look like a sissy with daddy issues. Timothy Zahn made Grand Admiral Thrawn into Space Sun Tzu/Zhuge Liang, with a good mixture of Sherlock Holmes and Alexander the Great making him just as threatening as Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader even though he had no Force powers. These guys earned their legendary status through their skills, their cunning, and their hard-ass determination, making them more akin to Gary Stus than Mary Sues.

However, these authors were good enough to hold back the Stu-factor to give them some weaknesses. Thrawn was arrogant to the point where he didn't even try to negotiate with the New Republic or warn them of the threat they face, nor did he realize his Nohgri bodyguards weren't fully loyal to him-he controlled them through fear even though their real allegiance was to Darth Vader, whose kids were serving on the New Republic side and would be far nicer to the Nohgri than he ever was. This led to him getting shanked by his own Nohgri bodyguard in the middle of a battle on the order of "Lady Vader", which prematurely ended his crusade to eradicate the New Republic and prepare the galaxy for the coming of the Yuuzhan Vong. Revan shared the same weakness, to the point where he was arrogant enough to think he can take on the Sith Emperor, a guy who keeps thousands, if not millions of Force-choking, lightning-chucking Sith trembling in fear of his power, without extensive backup. Revan launched a suicide mission with only one other Jedi and a Sith for support. This led to Revan getting his butt kicked in, his ass getting thrown in jail, and him becoming the chew toy of said Sith Emperor. The wiser option would have been to help rebuild the Republic and the Jedi after both were nearly destroyed by the war he started, then leading them in a surprise, full-scale attack against the Sith Emperor and the True Sith Empire after a decade or two has passed and the Republic/Jedi forces had been rebuilt.

Dave Filoni and Karen Traviss meanwhile, take the Mary Sue trope all the way with their creations. That seems to be the problem here.

Dave Filoni takes Ahsoka Tano, a character who by all rights, should have died in the Clone Wars era (which would then give Anakin an extra reason to hate the Jedi Council and jump ship to the Sith) and gets her involved in all sorts of plotlines where she doesn't belong, especially with Star Wars Rebels. She really should have died before the Original Trilogy. Instead, she lives all the way after Endor, where she eventually gets recruited by Luke Skywalker's New Jedi Order. Which makes no sense at all given how the Alliance to Restore the Republic could have used a Jedi in the Original Trilogy movies and yet Ahsoka Tano, who did help them in the past, wasn't around at all to help them. She's got the time to slap around a few bum Inquisitors, but can't help Luke Skywalker master his powers and confront his evil father? Even though she's more qualified for the latter than either Kenobi or Yoda ever could be, given her experiences with Anakin Skywalker?

Part of the main plot of the Original Trilogy Star Wars is that Luke Skywalker was the only Jedi the Rebellion could get their hands on. Originally, they wanted Obi-Wan Kenobi, and given his status as a Clone Wars general and a war veteran, it would have been likely that he would either become one of the bigshots ordering large amounts of troops or ships around, or the bloody Shogun of the Alliance, handing out orders to the entire Alliance Military. Instead, they got Luke, who was some hillbilly Jedi apprentice Kenobi picked up before leaving Tatooine, and they still granted him the rank of Commander and gave him his own force to command. Ahsoka joining the Alliance would have given her much pull and leeway to lead them to victory. Perhaps they would have made her a general like Kenobi, or a commander like Luke. And yet she didn't join, even though she could have helped them, from helping Leia get away from Stormtroopers, to helping Luke confront Darth Vader, to winning the battle on Endor and perhaps even redeeming Anakin Skywalker.

That doesn't even begin to cover how completely misguided her arc in the Siege of Mandalore is. She's portrayed by the story to be correct, morally superior even to Obi-Wan Kenobi, even though practically everything she does is either wrong or misguided prior to Order 66 and her duel with Darth Maul. And this was after that annoying arc with the Martez sisters that replaced a romance arc that could have given Ahsoka some much-needed character development. When Coruscant, the CAPITAL OF THE REPUBLIC, falls under attack by General Grievous and his Droid Army, Ahsoka is more angry with Obi-Wan Kenobi wanting to "protect Palpatine" rather than helping Bo-Katan. Space Rome is under attack by an army of killer robots, and instead of worrying for the 1 trillion lives on the planet, Ahsoka has more sympathy for some Mando ex-terrorist whose biggest interaction with her prior to this arc was SLAPPING HER ASS. Ahsoka is somehow more loyal to some Mando rabble-rouser who slapped her butt once instead of protecting a massive city world with a trillion people from an army of killer robots, chalking it all up to the Jedi protecting Palpatine. Isn't she supposed to care for innocent people? Did she forget what happened on that icy world with Lux Bonterri, where Bo-Katan and Pre Vizsla killed an entire village of innocent people? Why does she take a former bandit's cause to be more noble than protecting innocents? Because of Darth Maul? Maul isn't harming anyone at that point, he was just chilling at the center of his Mandalorian realm that he won fair and square, terrorizing former terrorists who wouldn't join his side.

And then of course, Ahsoka's battle tactics are terrible, flying gunships to a city filled with guys who have rocket launchers and jetpacks, following the enemy into a sewer where they can easily ambush her men, the list goes on. But she's still portrayed as the big hero, especially when she beats Darth Maul AND survives Order 66.

Ahsoka in Star Wars: Rebels is just one big, bad fanfiction from Dave Filoni. George Lucas wanted her to die before the Original Trilogy, which would have been better. Instead, she makes fools out of Dark Jedi who were trained to hunt Jedi, she even manages to injure DARTH VADER in single combat, which is something only Luke Skywalker and Starkiller were able to do, and Filoni moves heaven and earth, even inventing time travel, to make sure Ahsoka lives despite the fact that she should have died. Heck, if you want a good way to kill Thrawn in Rebels, why not Ahsoka? Have her kill Thrawn by fighting her way into his Star Destroyer and then blowing it up while he's locked inside, then have that cause Darth Vader to show up and kill her. It would give the Rebels show some real stakes, it would give the Rebellion their own Joan of Arc to rally around, and explain why Thrawn and Ahsoka were absent from the Original Trilogy films. Instead, Ahsoka lives all the way past Episode VI, despite the fact that it makes no sense at all, just so Dave can have his orange waifu live through everything.

Ahsoka Tano wasn't a bad character. She was a minor player at first, but as she matured she became more likeable. The best character arc for her was the last few episodes of Season 5 where she eventually quit the Order. They could have had her die fighting in the Siege of Mandalore (which should happen BEFORE Grievous attacks Coruscant) or die fighting Thrawn and Vader in Rebels, which would make her the Rebels' patron saint. It's what they did with her in Season 7 of TCW and the fact that they had her survive the Galactic Civil War that made her into a Mary Sue.

Thats just it, Ahsoka did not exist when the OT was crafted nor was there a need for such a character in the function of the story. This is why I hate the Filoni characters and all of the other "insert" characters they parade around. They are being added after the fact and are put in a position that conflicts with the way the original Star Wars story was established and functions.

It was clear to all of us (or at least to me) when watching the OT (prior to the Prequels) that the Jedi were gone, this is what made Luke so special and necessary to the story. Never once did I imagine that there were other secret force users in covert positions on either side (the Rebels show really screwed this up ). There is no need for a character like Ahsoka to make the story work, if anything, her very existence actually mucks up the core story of the OT.

Adding new characters like Rebel pilots or soldiers makes sense and fleshes out character roles that we allready know exist. Adding new force users everywhere and things like orange yoda directly conflict with the status of events established in the OT. Its just selfish story building by people who want to put their mark on Star Wars and in many cases are doing it to specifically degrade the OT characters and correct what they view are "wrongs" with the OT for social reasons.

 

[The Fresh Maker]

Someone keep this guy away from film school, because "objective quality" is the first thing teachers go over on the first day...when they're done jerking off to Citizen Kane and 2001, of course.

Also, imagine being so butthurt over Star Wars that you express resentment to Jeremy Jahns of all people...one of the most vanilla YouTubers in existence. Fuck, I don't even particularly care for his channel, and his videos on TROS aren't even half as harsh as the others out there.

Is it possible to make a thread dedicated to making fun of consoomers of the sequel trilogy? Because people like this guy and @Rider_Nexus are a gold mine of hypocricy and hilarious irony when it comes to the sequel trilogy.

The way he talks about Jeremy Jahns (and if you look around his twitter you'll see he was a huge fan pre-sequel trilogy) sounds like he's a bitter ex describing his past marriage. Like, if you're seriously going to resent Jeremy Jahns just because he said he didn't like the sequel trilogy, he was clearly not meant for you. It's pretty clear at this point that this Alex guy made that "objectively bad" tweet because he's overly sensitive to the idea of something he really REALLY likes being called out for being a horribly written mess.

 

[White Devil]

I find a lot of Star Wars fans are hopeless marks that bring out the entire "oh you're not a true/real fan!" if you have any criticism whatsoever of the franchise.

 

[Squid Diddler]

I find a lot of Star Wars fans are hopeless marks that bring out the entire "oh you're not a true/real fan!" if you have any criticism whatsoever of the franchise.

And vice versa.

 

[The Fresh Maker]

And vice versa.

At least the vice versa side knows what continuity and plot consistency actually is.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

If there's a thread ever made for the pro-ST Dullards, then I'll be uploading all the screencaps I took from Tumblr during the peak of the post-TROS meltdown. That shit was too hilarious not to archive.

I find a lot of Star Wars fans are hopeless marks that bring out the entire "oh you're not a true/real fan!" if you have any criticism whatsoever of the franchise.

I find that they're suspiciously selective about what they tolerate criticism for. If you drag the Prequels or the Expanded Universe through the shoals, they'll have no problem whatsoever, just like they didn't for the last ten years. Most of the loudest people in the ST Defense Force like HelloGreedo etc. have spent years trashing the Prequels or Special Editions, or will happily compile a "Top 10 Worst Things in the EU Before Disney Saved Star Wars" list...but the second you even remotely suggest that the new films are of poor quality, or that Disney has done more harm than good with the franchise, prepare to have the Soy SWAT Team kick down the door to deafen you with their shrill shrieks of objection.

They're the quickest to denounce "mindless hate", whilst ignoring their own history. It's double-faced hypocrisy at its finest, and it only makes sense that it's ever-present from the pro-ST aisle.

 

[BipolarPon]

I'm not surprised disney lost a lot of money this year, I'm just very shocked they lost more than a billion or two, that is something that will take almost a decade at the very least to shake off, that is if they don't go bankrupt.